NAD Masters M10 BluOS DAC/Amp with Dirac Live at CES 2019 - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 327 Old 06-08-2019, 02:55 AM
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Hi. I have a NAD M22 V2 amp which I love and a pair of KEF R7 speakers. My room it’s not treated and it has echoes and reflections so I’m in urgent need of a room correction. I was almost ready to buy a ANTHEM STR preamp with ARC but read that DIRAC is better at room correction.

Can anyone please confirm me if I can use the M10 as a preamp to my M22 amp? Would I lose any feature including DIRAC if I don’t use the M10 integrated amp?

Since what I really need is to use Dirac do you think the M10 plus the M22 would make a good match?

Last question, by implementing DIRAC would it help me to refine my sweet spot accurately, get a wider soundstage, best imaging and have attenuation of echos and bad reflections? Is the Dirac in the M10 the same as other equipments or a less featured / inferior version?

Please forgive for the questions. Thank you very very much!
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post #242 of 327 Old 06-08-2019, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obonillaf View Post
Hi. I have a NAD M22 V2 amp which I love and a pair of KEF R7 speakers. My room it’s not treated and it has echoes and reflections so I’m in urgent need of a room correction. I was almost ready to buy a ANTHEM STR preamp with ARC but read that DIRAC is better at room correction.

Can anyone please confirm me if I can use the M10 as a preamp to my M22 amp? Would I lose any feature including DIRAC if I don’t use the M10 integrated amp?

Since what I really need is to use Dirac do you think the M10 plus the M22 would make a good match?

Last question, by implementing DIRAC would it help me to refine my sweet spot accurately, get a wider soundstage, best imaging and have attenuation of echos and bad reflections? Is the Dirac in the M10 the same as other equipments or a less featured / inferior version?

Please forgive for the questions. Thank you very very much!
I believe that would be a very good combination! The only thing it lacks is the balanced connections that the M22v2 can use. What you gain with going to the ESS Sabre DAC and Dirac Live is well-worth it. The latest version of Anthem's ARC Genesis has really good tools too, though updates to it are spotty at best. Dirac Live continuously tests, gets feedback from users, and improves the product with free and regular updates.

All that said....please do some things to treat the room FIRST. It's not much money, relative to electronics, but yields more effective results per dollar (or Euro) spent. No room correction app can totally cure a bad room, but room treatments can help immensely. It can take many forms too, from bookcases to curtains. Worth the trouble!
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post #243 of 327 Old 06-08-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I believe that would be a very good combination! The only thing it lacks is the balanced connections that the M22v2 can use. What you gain with going to the ESS Sabre DAC and Dirac Live is well-worth it. The latest version of Anthem's ARC Genesis has really good tools too, though updates to it are spotty at best. Dirac Live continuously tests, gets feedback from users, and improves the product with free and regular updates.

All that said....please do some things to treat the room FIRST. It's not much money, relative to electronics, but yields more effective results per dollar (or Euro) spent. No room correction app can totally cure a bad room, but room treatments can help immensely. It can take many forms too, from bookcases to curtains. Worth the trouble!
Thank you for your post. I just placed the order of the M10. I know it could only get better not worse than I am right now without room correction. Besides, since I'm using a BlueSound Node 2i for streaming I guess the M10 DAC's should be better right? Do you know if the M10 DAC actually upsample the audio received like e.g. the PS AUDIO DirectStream DAC? Best regards,
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post #244 of 327 Old 06-08-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by obonillaf View Post
Thank you for your post. I just placed the order of the M10. I know it could only get better not worse than I am right now without room correction. Besides, since I'm using a BlueSound Node 2i for streaming I guess the M10 DAC's should be better right? Do you know if the M10 DAC actually upsample the audio received like e.g. the PS AUDIO DirectStream DAC? Best regards,
The Bluesound Node 2i has a Burr-Brown PCM512 DAC chipset, while the Masters M10 uses an ESS Sabre 9028 chipset. I love it, because I came from a Bluesound Powernode 2 and noticed the higher level of detail immediately. Sorry, but I have no facts about the upsampling.

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post #245 of 327 Old 06-10-2019, 07:28 AM
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[QUOTE=KenM10759;58158732]
Quote:
Originally Posted by obonillaf View Post
Thank you for your post. I just placed the order of the M10. I know it could only get better not worse than I am right now without room correction. Besides, since I'm using a BlueSound Node 2i for streaming I guess the M10 DAC's





The Bluesound Node 2i has a Burr-Brown PCM512 DAC chipset, while the Masters M10 uses an ESS Sabre 9028 chipset. I love it, because I came from a Bluesound Powernode 2 and noticed the higher level of detail immediately. Sorry, but I have no facts about the upsampling.


Thank you! LAST QUESTIONS: The M10 already comes with the microphone, so I don’t need to buy one, right ? Have you bought the $100 Dirac upgrade that extends the frequencies? Best regards
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post #246 of 327 Old 06-10-2019, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by obonillaf View Post


Thank you! LAST QUESTIONS: The M10 already comes with the microphone, so I don’t need to buy one, right ? Have you bought the $100 Dirac upgrade that extends the frequencies? Best regards
Yes, it comes with one though I already had a UMIK-1 from MiniDSP that's said to be better.

I had paid the $100 upgrade for full Dirac Live when I added the AM230 to my NAD T758 receiver to make it a full "v3" version and it was valid for use with the M10. My dealer has told me the 500hz limit of the basic version that comes with the M10 seems to work better than the full version they almost have.

I'm a little too busy to bother checking.

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post #247 of 327 Old 06-13-2019, 02:29 AM
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Airplay 2 is coming to the M10 according to a slide from NAD I saw via a firmware update.

I’m also looking forward to John Darko’s review-

https://darko.audio/2019/06/global-f...ou-mostly-use/

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post #248 of 327 Old 06-13-2019, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Yes, it comes with one though I already had a UMIK-1 from MiniDSP that's said to be better.

I had paid the $100 upgrade for full Dirac Live when I added the AM230 to my NAD T758 receiver to make it a full "v3" version and it was valid for use with the M10. My dealer has told me the 500hz limit of the basic version that comes with the M10 seems to work better than the full version they almost have.

I'm a little too busy to bother checking.

I cannot agree with that dealer... an often underestimated advantage of full bandwidth correction is the fact that correcting full bandwidth the magnitude and phase response of speaker pairs (so that they are perfectly matched) is important for imaging, one might get a somehow "blurred" image otherwise.

If one wants to preserve the tonal balance of his speakers (that probably he has chosen with time and care) then he can use a target curve that follows the very general behaviour (not the tiny details) of the "before correction" graph at mid/high frequencies as shown by Dirac.

Flavio
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Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)

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post #249 of 327 Old 06-13-2019, 09:35 AM
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I cannot agree with that dealer... an often underestimated advantage of full bandwidth correction is the fact that correcting full bandwidth the magnitude and phase response of speaker pairs (so that they are perfectly matched) is important for imaging, one might get a somehow "blurred" image otherwise.

If one wants to preserve the tonal balance of his speakers (that probably he has chosen with time and care) then he can use a target curve that follows the very general behaviour (not the tiny details) of the "before correction" graph at mid/high frequencies as shown by Dirac.

Flavio
I also disagree with him about that.

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post #250 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 05:20 AM
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I own a Nad C388 with bluos modul, i was thinking of buying the new Nad M10 will the nad M10 give me a better sound.
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post #251 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm running SVS Prime Pinnacle with the NAD M10 Masters right now. Reviews (or to be honest, these days it's really subjective hands-on) of both are coming up.

The M10 certainly is a premium price device, but it does earn my respect for being such a tight design.

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post #252 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 09:19 AM
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I own a Nad C388 with bluos modul, i was thinking of buying the new Nad M10 will the nad M10 give me a better sound.
"Better sound" is very subjective. From that standpoint, the differences between them are the M10 has an ESS Sabre 9028 DAC chipset while the C388 has a Burr-Brown PCM5122 (as far as I know.) The M10 claims 100 watts per channel @ 8Ω, while the C388 is 150W. The M10 may have a more refined version of the Hypex N-Core class D amp technology as it's a couple years newer and is their "Masters" class of products. Maybe.

How important is maximum power? I don't know what speakers you are driving, that can matter. How about other features? The physical looks and size are very different, though remote control via the BlueOS apps is the same. Manual operation with the M10 isn't as simple as the volume knob on the C388, but both look the same via the app.

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post #253 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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"Better sound" is very subjective. From that standpoint, the differences between them are the M10 has an ESS Sabre 9028 DAC chipset while the C388 has a Burr-Brown PCM5122 (as far as I know.) The M10 claims 100 watts per channel @ 8Ω, while the C388 is 150W. The M10 may have a more refined version of the Hypex N-Core class D amp technology as it's a couple years newer and is their "Masters" class of products. Maybe.

How important is maximum power? I don't know what speakers you are driving, that can matter. How about other features? The physical looks and size are very different, though remote control via the BlueOS apps is the same. Manual operation with the M10 isn't as simple as the volume knob on the C388, but both look the same via the app.
I would think this is more of a form factor situation, the M10 is small, it doesn't have venting, that makes it different from an AVR-sized device in terms of placement and all that. I'd be hard-pressed to see how it would sound markedly different from an NAD AVR and the difference in wattage is only going to be a couple of decibels at peak output, albeit it in the AVR's favor. What's missing from the C388 is Dirac Live. To me, that's just about the entire name of the game here.
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post #254 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 09:34 AM
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"Better sound" is very subjective. From that standpoint, the differences between them are the M10 has an ESS Sabre 9028 DAC chipset while the C388 has a Burr-Brown PCM5122 (as far as I know.) The M10 claims 100 watts per channel @ 8Ω, while the C388 is 150W. The M10 may have a more refined version of the Hypex N-Core class D amp technology as it's a couple years newer and is their "Masters" class of products. Maybe.

How important is maximum power? I don't know what speakers you are driving, that can matter. How about other features? The physical looks and size are very different, though remote control via the BlueOS apps is the same. Manual operation with the M10 isn't as simple as the volume knob on the C388, but both look the same via the app.
i have piega premium 501 loudspeakers
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post #255 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 11:23 AM
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I would think this is more of a form factor situation, the M10 is small, it doesn't have venting, that makes it different from an AVR-sized device in terms of placement and all that. I'd be hard-pressed to see how it would sound markedly different from an NAD AVR and the difference in wattage is only going to be a couple of decibels at peak output, albeit it in the AVR's favor. What's missing from the C388 is Dirac Live. To me, that's just about the entire name of the game here.
There are vents. If you examine along the top left and right edges, they are there. The edge of the top glass isn't sealed along those edges. Granted it's not much venting but better than nothing at all.
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Hi everyone !!
I have nad m10 and naim uniti Atom.. both with kef r3... compared one with each other I’m surprised about with 65% volumen of nad m10 I get the same volumen than 40% of the naim .. any explanation for that if nad is 100W and naim 40W??
Questions please :
May i put UV indicator when streaming tidal ??
No way of getting nad m10 off with BluOS app??
Crossover setting just applies if you have subwoofer ?
Bridge mode has to be off???
Many thanks
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post #257 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 02:07 PM
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Hi everyone !!
I have nad m10 and naim uniti Atom.. both with kef r3... compared one with each other I’m surprised about with 65% volumen of nad m10 I get the same volumen than 40% of the naim .. any explanation for that if nad is 100W and naim 40W??
Questions please :
May i put UV indicator when streaming tidal ??
No way of getting nad m10 off with BluOS app??
Crossover setting just applies if you have subwoofer ?
Bridge mode has to be off???
Many thanks
The volume control of the M10 is more like logarithmic rather than linear, as I believe the Naim Uniti Atom might be. Try going up higher and see how things change. Another thing to try with the M10 is to go to Settings>Player>Audio, then set the slider for "Volume limits" higher on the bottom end, boosting it from default of -70dB up to perhaps -50dB. That make the volume act differently.

Q1: Can't answer, as I don't know what you mean by "UV indicator". Oh, you mean VU meters. Yes, from the menus for source setup.
Q2: I depend upon the settings for standby to power it down, but it never really gets turned off.
Q3: It probably doesn't output much below wherever you have it set, even if you have "no subwoofer" selected. If you set it to "no subwoofer" it really should be sending a full range signal to speakers.
Q4: If you run mono sound instead of stereo, have only one speaker, and it can handle 200 watts (@ 8Ω), you can run bridged mode. Otherwise, leave it off please.

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post #258 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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There are vents. If you examine along the top left and right edges, they are there. The edge of the top glass isn't sealed along those edges. Granted it's not much venting but better than nothing at all.
Ha! you are correct. I can even see the heatsinks.
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post #259 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 02:42 PM
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Many thanks !!! I can’t get to put off with my BluOS app my nad m10 even with standby mode off...
and where I can customise to see VU meters instead of tidal or Qobuz display ?
Thanks so much
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post #260 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 03:35 PM
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Many thanks !!! I can’t get to put off with my BluOS app my nad m10 even with standby mode off...
and where I can customise to see VU meters instead of tidal or Qobuz display ?
Thanks so much
Easiest using the front panel.

Touch the screen anywhere, touch the 3-bar icon in upper left corner, click the bottom icon on the left.

It takes you to settings.

2nd one down, "Source Setup", scroll to "BluOS (Cloud Service)" and you'll see options on "Front Screen"

That should do it.

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I went there .. but no chance to select BluOS there. Many thanks
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Got it!!! Just I need to put off my nad with BluOS app ... thanks!!!
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post #263 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 04:30 PM
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Volume issue is strange for me .. is it normal to hear at 70-75% all time ?? Usually did 40 of 100 in my naim .. thanks for all your help
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post #264 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 06:43 PM
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Volume issue is strange for me .. is it normal to hear at 70-75% all time ?? Usually did 40 of 100 in my naim .. thanks for all your help
Have you tried changing the volume max-min scale as I suggested?

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post #265 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Cristianserrano View Post
I went there .. but no chance to select BluOS there. Many thanks
You're on the correct screen view there, all you had to do was wipe upwards on that list and is would scroll to those options you don't see.

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post #266 of 327 Old 06-16-2019, 08:03 PM
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I changed setup volumes with no change in maximum volume
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post #267 of 327 Old 06-17-2019, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cristianserrano View Post
Volume issue is strange for me .. is it normal to hear at 70-75% all time ?? Usually did 40 of 100 in my naim .. thanks for all your help
I also found this strange as don't think I ever went past half way with volume on any other amp. I've got used to it now though, might try adjusting the volume slider as Ken suggests to see what difference it makes.
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post #268 of 327 Old 06-17-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NottsMFC View Post
I also found this strange as don't think I ever went past half way with volume on any other amp. I've got used to it now though, might try adjusting the volume slider as Ken suggests to see what difference it makes.
Change only the low end, not the max volume. That seems to work a little better though it remains being a logarithmic scale. When you get closer to the max volume, be more careful as it gets a lot louder much quicker!
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post #269 of 327 Old 06-17-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Change only the low end, not the max volume. That seems to work a little better though it remains being a logarithmic scale. When you get closer to the max volume, be more careful as it gets a lot louder much quicker!
Thanks. Moved from 70-50 & has definitely made a difference.
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post #270 of 327 Old 06-17-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by NottsMFC View Post
Thanks. Moved from 70-50 & has definitely made a difference.
Made a big difference on mine also.
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