New IMAX Enhanced Partners and Content Announced - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 09:36 AM
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How will this work in conjunction with room eq like audyssey? Audyssey is already attempting to shape a 12 dB per octave roll off that crossover that gets set in the avr.


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Should have read further. You explained there is a custom audyssey curve in a later post.


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post #32 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 10:07 AM
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How will this work in conjunction with room eq like audyssey? Audyssey is already attempting to shape a 12 dB per octave roll off that crossover that gets set in the avr.
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Should have read further. You explained there is a custom audyssey curve in a later post.
Audyssey doesn't do bass management, just EQ. The crossovers are handled by the receiver or pre-pro. The receiver's 12dB per octave high pass is combined with a 12dB per octave high pass in the soundtrack to end up with a 24dB per octave high pass to the speakers at 70Hz. This mimics the 4th order (24dB per octave) high pass at 70Hz used in IMAX theatres. Bass below that ends up in the subwoofer. The custom Audyssey curve is for the overall frequency response (target curve), not the slope of the crossover.
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post #33 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Audyssey doesn't do bass management, just EQ. The crossovers are handled by the receiver or pre-pro. The receiver's 12dB per octave high pass is combined with a 12dB per octave high pass in the soundtrack to end up with a 24dB per octave high pass to the speakers at 70Hz. This mimics the 4th order (24dB per octave) high pass at 70Hz used in IMAX theatres. Bass below that ends up in the subwoofer. The custom Audyssey curve is for the overall frequency response (target curve), not the slope of the crossover.
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post #34 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 10:34 AM
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New IMAX Enhanced Partners and Content Announced

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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Audyssey doesn't do bass management, just EQ. The crossovers are handled by the receiver or pre-pro. The receiver's 12dB per octave high pass is combined with a 12dB per octave high pass in the soundtrack to end up with a 24dB per octave high pass to the speakers at 70Hz. This mimics the 4th order (24dB per octave) high pass at 70Hz used in IMAX theatres. Bass below that ends up in the subwoofer. The custom Audyssey curve is for the overall frequency response (target curve), not the slope of the crossover.


According to Chris Kyriakakis, audyssey does try to add a 12 dB per octave roll off as part of its filter at crossover chosen by the avr to optimize the splice.

[URL][https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212346123-Does-MultEQ-optimize-the-crossover-region-between-satellite-speakers-and-subwoofer-/[URL]


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post #35 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 02:27 PM
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To be fair, the IMAX Enhanced press release does make it sound like a set of quality certifications/assurances. Thankfully, there were a couple demos at CEDIA that clarified details. One of the demos was put on by Sound United (Denon/Marantz) for AVS members, where we were reminded that IMAX theatres have been calibrated/tuned with Audyssey since 2009. As such, one of the features that is supposed to auto-switch when the IMAX Enhanced flag is detected is a custom IMAX target curve on Audyssey-based products that have the IMAX Enhanced mode. Also, most movie soundtracks have their dynamics reduced when remixing or nearfield remastering for home video. Since IMAX boasts about their huge dynamics, their rep said that IMAX Enhanced soundtracks will maintain their full dynamic range on home video.
If we don’t have an IMAX Enhanced AVR, will we still be able to take advantage of the ‘full dynamic range’ soundtrack by playing back the DTS:X/Master Audio track?
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post #36 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 03:29 PM
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According to Chris Kyriakakis, audyssey does try to add a 12 dB per octave roll off as part of its filter at crossover chosen by the avr to optimize the splice.
Chris K said: "Keep in mind that it's a highpass filter applied to the filter and not to the signal." The 12dB per octave highpass filter is applied to their target curve (the filter) so that it doesn't re-shape the slope of the crossover that was set in the receiver. But the crossover (high pass, low pass) is still done in the receiver.

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post #37 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 03:31 PM
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time to give you Guru status!
No guru. Just repeating non-NDA stuff I was told at CEDIA.

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post #38 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Chris K said: "Keep in mind that it's a highpass filter applied to the filter and not to the signal." The 12dB per octave highpass filter is applied to their target curve (the filter) so that it doesn't re-shape the slope of the crossover that was set in the receiver. But the crossover (high pass, low pass) is still done in the receiver.


I get that. But if audyssey applies a high pass to the filter above or below 70hz won’t that be a problem?


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post #39 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by matty1137 View Post
If we don’t have an IMAX Enhanced AVR, will we still be able to take advantage of the ‘full dynamic range’ soundtrack by playing back the DTS:X/Master Audio track?
Yes, the full dynamic range is built into the soundtrack (no dynamic range compression applied when it was transferred to home video).
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post #40 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 03:41 PM
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But if audyssey applies a high pass to the filter above or below 70hz won’t that be a problem?
Why will it apply the high pass to a frequency other than the selected crossover point?

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post #41 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 04:05 PM
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Why will it apply the high pass to a frequency other than the selected crossover point?


That is what I am asking . Will it automatically change the roll off in the filter to 70hz?

Maybe I a being dense, but it seems to me arbitrarily changing crossover to all speakers to 70hz has potential to make things sound significantly worse. Many are using very small speakers especially fir the surrounds.


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post #42 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Why will it apply the high pass to a frequency other than the selected crossover point?


That is what I am asking . Will it automatically change the roll off in the filter to 70hz?

Maybe I a being dense, but it seems to me arbitrarily changing crossover to all speakers to 70hz has potential to make things sound significantly worse. Many are using very small speakers especially for the surrounds.


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post #43 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
That is what I am asking . Will it automatically change the roll off in the filter to 70hz?

Maybe I a being dense, but it seems to me arbitrarily changing crossover to all speakers to 70hz has potential to make things sound significantly worse. Many are using very small speakers especially for the surrounds.


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Although there are no IMAX Enhanced certified speakers, there are performance parameters that need to be met. In particular, the entire system should be able to achieve 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and the speakers themselves should all be able to play down to 70 Hz, according to the website FAQ. https://www.imaxenhanced.com/

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post #44 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 05:16 PM
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New IMAX Enhanced Partners and Content Announced

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Although there are no IMAX Enhanced certified speakers, there are performance parameters that need to be met. In particular, the entire system should be able to achieve 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and the speakers themselves should all be able to play down to 70 Hz, according to the website FAQ. https://www.imaxenhanced.com/


Thanks. That is what I expected. Most people would likely be better off turning it off IMO. I suspect very few have surround systems capable of that.


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post #45 of 99 Old 01-19-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
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Will it automatically change the roll off in the filter to 70hz?
IF Audyssey applies their filter based on the crossover setting, then it should change when the crossover point is changed.
Quote:
Many are using very small speakers especially for the surrounds.
That's a separate issue. Like asking how to adhere to a THX compliant layout when your very small speakers don't go down to 80Hz. In the case of IMAX Enhanced, you would need to switch out of that mode to regular DTS:X decoding (where you choose the crossover setting).

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post #46 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 04:42 AM
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Maybe I misunderstood what this was saying. Are they saying that people with your average or typical setup will still hear or see improvements? I just don't understand how this makes anything better than what's already out there. Please feel free to explain if someone else knows what this all means. I truly feel we are at the pinnacle of what's possible with video and audio. 8k is here and the only advancement with audio I would like to see is making more channels possible without spending a small fortune.
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post #47 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I misunderstood what this was saying. Are they saying that people with your average or typical setup will still hear or see improvements? I just don't understand how this makes anything better than what's already out there. Please feel free to explain if someone else knows what this all means. I truly feel we are at the pinnacle of what's possible with video and audio. 8k is here and the only advancement with audio I would like to see is making more channels possible without spending a small fortune.
To really reduce it to the basics, it's a different presentation versus other versions of the movie, and it's up to the individual to decide if it is an improvement. I imagine some people don't like aspect ratio shifts, and prefer nearfield mixes with dynamic compression. If someone is in that camp, they should get the normal Blu-ray release. Just like when they go to the movie theater, they can choose between a regular movie theater and an IMAX auditorium. The idea here, at the end of the day, is to come as close as possible, in the home, to replicating the IMAX commercial movie theater experience.

As for the "pinnacle" of what's possible, Technicolor says VR delivered in 12-bit, 8K per eye, 120 fps, with 16 stops of dynamic range... that's the threshold where the experience looks real. Still a few years away from the first systems that might deliver this.

For flat panel viewing, 8K and rec.2020 color and variable frame rate up to 120 Hz would about do it.

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post #48 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 07:19 AM
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New IMAX Enhanced Partners and Content Announced

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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
IF Audyssey applies their filter based on the crossover setting, then it should change when the crossover point is changed. That's a separate issue. Like asking how to adhere to a THX compliant layout when your very small speakers don't go down to 80Hz. In the case of IMAX Enhanced, you would need to switch out of that mode to regular DTS:X decoding (where you choose the crossover setting).


Than you. I know you have access to more information than most of us. Thanks for sharing what you can.

I have no doubt imax enhanced will sound very good on a system capable of playing it back as intended. Unfortunately , I don’t think most of us have such a system.


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post #49 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 09:32 AM
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Wow, 16/9 content at home! The future is now!
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post #50 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by renoreigns View Post
Maybe I misunderstood what this was saying. Are they saying that people with your average or typical setup will still hear or see improvements? I just don't understand how this makes anything better than what's already out there. Please feel free to explain if someone else knows what this all means. I truly feel we are at the pinnacle of what's possible with video and audio. 8k is here and the only advancement with audio I would like to see is making more channels possible without spending a small fortune.
To really reduce it to the basics, it's a different presentation versus other versions of the movie, and it's up to the individual to decide if it is an improvement. I imagine some people don't like aspect ratio shifts, and prefer nearfield mixes with dynamic compression. If someone is in that camp, they should get the normal Blu-ray release. Just like when they go to the movie theater, they can choose between a regular movie theater and an IMAX auditorium. The idea here, at the end of the day, is to come as close as possible, in the home, to replicating the IMAX commercial movie theater experience.

As for the "pinnacle" of what's possible, Technicolor says VR delivered in 12-bit, 8K per eye, 120 fps, with 16 stops of dynamic range... that's the threshold where the experience looks real. Still a few years away from the first systems that might deliver this.

For flat panel viewing, 8K and rec.2020 color and variable frame rate up to 120 Hz would about do it.
That may be true, but the content won't be there anytime soon. Hell, we're in a 4k world and many films still get 2k DI's.

The only thing 8k will bring is getting displays closer to REC 2020 compliance, maybe true 12 bit processing, and better contrast and brightness if they can nail down the panel tech where they haven't before.

This was stuff promised with 4k and not delivered on, so they could sell you on a bigger pixel count that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things except on giant, premiere cinema screens.
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post #51 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 02:21 PM
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No guru. Just repeating non-NDA stuff I was told at CEDIA.
So humble
I’ve lost count on how many of your posts have furthered my audio education.

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post #52 of 99 Old 01-20-2019, 05:15 PM
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Are they saying that people with your average or typical setup will still hear or see improvements?
IF you consider more dynamic audio and less noisy picture to be improvements.
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post #53 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 09:00 AM
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Unless we are getting unfiltered audio, 4K DI IMAX then wtf are these people wasting our time for with this crap?! i don't see this going anywhere with anyone that serious about HT and not gimmicks.
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post #54 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 09:09 AM
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I guess for the av enthusiast this is good? Otherwise a waste of money. Once again he industry trying to sell you things that they think yo you need.
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post #55 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess for the av enthusiast this is good? Otherwise a waste of money. Once again he industry trying to sell you things that they think yo you need.
It could also be phrased as "make available things that you can choose to purchase if it appeals to you for entertainment purposes," And besides, the gear is optional, it just "enhances" the experience but nobody is locked out just because they did not buy a new AVR. You can just buy the disc and play it on an HDR capable display and stop there if that's all you want out of it.
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post #56 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 11:05 AM
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When is the first disc based blockbuster going to released on 4K UHD?
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One thing IMAX prides itself on is that its audio systems are capable of reproducing bass down to nearly 20 hz or so. Since IMAX Enhanced is all about giving the consumer the full IMAX dynamics and SQ, I hope they are a little more hesitant in heavily filtering out LFE below 30 hz which seems to be more and more common in standard blu-ray releases. The good news for many of us on AVS is that this new format will reward those who ponied up for more capable speakers and subs. In a world where it seems like everything is being mixed for soundbars and earbuds, that's a wonderful thing.
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post #58 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 01:40 PM
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It could also be phrased as "make available things that you can choose to purchase if it appeals to you for entertainment purposes," And besides, the gear is optional, it just "enhances" the experience but nobody is locked out just because they did not buy a new AVR. You can just buy the disc and play it on an HDR capable display and stop there if that's all you want out of it.
This is what I don't understand with people... some times people just frustrate the hell out of me when they complain & complain & complain about things they don't understand rather than taking a little bit of time to grasp and understand.

I mean it's not like anyone is kicking doors down with a double barrel 12 gauge to their faces and making them pay.

I for one am glad that I can just buy the disc and still be able to enjoy the visual side of the content with my current 2016 display, unlike with things like 3D where you HAD to buy a TV with it for example.
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post #59 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote "The key thing to understand with IMAX Enhanced is that is open. You can get started with experiencing it by simply obtaining the content."

From what I've read the key thing to understand with the IMAX Enhanced is it's empty.

Literally seems to be nothing to it.

It's branding. IMAX says this hardware and software is better.

I guess if it makes people happy or sells stuff then it's good for somebody anyway.
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post #60 of 99 Old 01-21-2019, 04:12 PM
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Unless we are getting unfiltered audio, 4K DI IMAX then wtf are these people wasting our time for with this crap?! i don't see this going anywhere with anyone that serious about HT and not gimmicks.

We don't need you telling the rest of us what IS and ISN'T crap, Mr "Serious About HT".
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