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post #1 of 11 Old 04-15-2019, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Had my new Denon X3500 now for right about a month now.

While it has been amazing, especially with the Audessy XT32 stuff, I am unable to shake off that it's just no right for us, my wife too is starting to also mention that she might be feeling uneasy too whenever we're watching TV since getting this X3500. For the past week I have even had a persistent mild headache, we don't listen any higher than 50%, calibrated 3 runs now, reset to factory defaults and reran again, and tweaked dynamic eq tone volume etc.
Still think the Denon is the cause and it might just be handling too bright now.

Should I simply try taking it back to Frys to exchange for a replacement unit? Or go with what my current plan is which is to search for alternatives?

Any help pointing out the direct comparisons of the X3500 and the likes of a Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha will be so much appreciated.

Additionally,
Just got done with another Magnolia Best Buy demo, this time not speaker comparisons demo, but receivers.
The sales dude was switching between what he was explaining as "Class D" (Yamaha/Pioneer/Marantz/Denon) vs "Class A/B" (Arcam) vs "Class A" (Mctintosh) and I immediately noticed very prominent differences in sound quality. Obviously cost scales respectively.

That being said, any chance anyone could advise me further on choice of receiver? I do know my budget and also my needs and wants, definitely not needing now to go that high end.
Basically want all that gimmicky "Class D" features like wifi bluetooth alexa/Google assistant stuff with atmos and Dolby vision etc.


Thanks if you read all the way here appreciate you lots.
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post #2 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 09:39 AM
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I have a Denon x4400h and don't experience any of the issues you mentioned. I did initially feel that things didn't sound quite right until I got the Audyssey calibration perfected (I don't use dynamic eq or dynamic volume, as I don't like the way it alters the sound). Also, what speakers are you using? You might need more neutral/warm speakers than what you have to get the sound you are looking for. Here's the link to the post I made about how I got my Audyssey sounding the best for my setup, maybe it can help you as well.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...positions.html
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post #3 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 09:59 AM
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Does this unit support the Audyssey app?

If so, try stopping the equalization at 300 - 500 Hz.

EQ sometimes does more harm than good at higher freq.
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post #4 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 10:29 AM
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Sales dude from Magnolia did not explain properly, the last class D receivers there would have been the Pioneer and Onkyo from maybe 2015ish?? Almost all name brand receivers now (under $2k) are class a/b.

NAD, Arcam and McIntosh are very nice receivers with excellent power supplies and exceptional room correction software. They do cost more than the mid-level stuff from Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer and you will hear a difference in their sound signatures. However, the Denon x3500 is a very nice receiver and the xt32 room correction is one of, if not the best available under $1k so the receiver is bad or you have another issue?

What speakers do you have? What about a sub?
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post #5 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvlup
Had my new Denon X3500 now for right about a month now.

While it has been amazing, especially with the Audessy XT32 stuff, I am unable to shake off that it's just no right for us, my wife too is starting to also mention that she might be feeling uneasy too whenever we're watching TV since getting this X3500. For the past week I have even had a persistent mild headache, we don't listen any higher than 50%, calibrated 3 runs now, reset to factory defaults and reran again, and tweaked dynamic eq tone volume etc.
Still think the Denon is the cause and it might just be handling too bright now. …
It doesn't make sense to me that a Denon receiver could cause headaches and uneasiness, with Audyssey either on or off, and especially at relatively low volumes. Nevertheless, IMO Yamaha would be a good alternative.
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvlup View Post
Had my new Denon X3500 now for right about a month now.
After running Audyssey, Volume = 50 shouldn't be much louder than conversation level.

Have you reviewed the Audyssey FAQ thread to ensure you are placing the mic correctly (eg. supported by a mic stand and not held in your hand or placed on pillows or a box)?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...d-part-ii.html

Use the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android, $20) to run Audyssey and then limit the EQ to only 500Hz.

If still no joy, then exchange it if you believe the issue is being caused by the AVR. Try a different brand.

https://www.excedrin.com/headaches/c...ache-triggers/

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 04-16-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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post #7 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 12:03 PM
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Odd, this should be a interesting read. I would lean more towards your speakers being to bright or harsh.

Carry on...

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post #8 of 11 Old 04-16-2019, 12:42 PM
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Just FYI, "Class A, A/B, D" refers to the amplification type. Nothing to do with WiFi, Bluetooth, Atmos, etc. or any other features the AVR might or might not have. That said, I've never personally been a Denon fan. The ones I've owned always sounded too sterile, too mechanical to me. I've owned a couple Yamaha's and was happy with those. Maybe check out the Aventage RX-A780 or RX-A880.

Did you end up going with the B&W M1's? Or are you still using the SVS Prime Elevations? How do you have them placed? I've sometimes found with calibration software like Audyssey, MCACC, ARC, etc., if the speakers aren't placed properly to start with, the calibration will produce some wonky results, often times resulting in an EQ that is way too bright. When you're doing your calibration make sure the speaker tweeters are aimed toward your main listening position and make sure the calibration mic is placed at approximately the same height as the tweeters. You should be using something like a camera tripod to hold the mic and moving that around from position to position.

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post #9 of 11 Old 04-19-2019, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow thanks everyone for chiming in, and helping me figure this out!!!

For the few asking, my final setup currently is
B&W M1 front right, center, left.
Sub Monolith 10inch Thx.

For the past two days things have been appearing fine now, headache is subsiding but still comes and goes, possibly just over reacting and just coincidence the stress at work has gotten to me haha.

We watched Welcome to Marwen just fine, really enjoyed it actually.

I have turned off the Audessy Dynamic EQ, and lowered more the Tone Channel adjustments for every channel option available to me.

I'm gonna run calibration once more tonight and it should be better I guess? Cause I just added that 3rd center channel last night too.

No surrounds for now. 3.1.
I might just stick it out with the Denon.
Does power source matter? I was reading about clean power lines but not sure how significant since these are more mass market instead if high end niche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I have a Denon x4400h and don't experience any of the issues you mentioned. I did initially feel that things didn't sound quite right until I got the Audyssey calibration perfected (I don't use dynamic eq or dynamic volume, as I don't like the way it alters the sound). Also, what speakers are you using? You might need more neutral/warm speakers than what you have to get the sound you are looking for. Here's the link to the post I made about how I got my Audyssey sounding the best for my setup, maybe it can help you as well.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...positions.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Does this unit support the Audyssey app?

If so, try stopping the equalization at 300 - 500 Hz.

EQ sometimes does more harm than good at higher freq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Sales dude from Magnolia did not explain properly, the last class D receivers there would have been the Pioneer and Onkyo from maybe 2015ish?? Almost all name brand receivers now (under $2k) are class a/b.

NAD, Arcam and McIntosh are very nice receivers with excellent power supplies and exceptional room correction software. They do cost more than the mid-level stuff from Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer and you will hear a difference in their sound signatures. However, the Denon x3500 is a very nice receiver and the xt32 room correction is one of, if not the best available under $1k so the receiver is bad or you have another issue?

What speakers do you have? What about a sub?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvlup
Had my new Denon X3500 now for right about a month now.

While it has been amazing, especially with the Audessy XT32 stuff, I am unable to shake off that it's just no right for us, my wife too is starting to also mention that she might be feeling uneasy too whenever we're watching TV since getting this X3500. For the past week I have even had a persistent mild headache, we don't listen any higher than 50%, calibrated 3 runs now, reset to factory defaults and reran again, and tweaked dynamic eq tone volume etc.
Still think the Denon is the cause and it might just be handling too bright now. …
It doesn't make sense to me that a Denon receiver could cause headaches and uneasiness, with Audyssey either on or off, and especially at relatively low volumes. Nevertheless, IMO Yamaha would be a good alternative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvlup View Post
Had my new Denon X3500 now for right about a month now.
After running Audyssey, Volume = 50 shouldn't be much louder than conversation level. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]

Have you reviewed the Audyssey FAQ thread to ensure you are placing the mic correctly (eg. supported by a mic stand and not held in your hand or placed on pillows or a box)?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...d-part-ii.html

Use the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android, $20) to run Audyssey and then limit the EQ to only 500Hz.

If still no joy, then exchange it if you believe the issue is being caused by the AVR. Try a different brand.

https://www.excedrin.com/headaches/c...ache-triggers/
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddman36 View Post
Odd, this should be a interesting read. I would lean more towards your speakers being to bright or harsh.

Carry on...[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyRider View Post
Just FYI, "Class A, A/B, D" refers to the amplification type. Nothing to do with WiFi, Bluetooth, Atmos, etc. or any other features the AVR might or might not have. That said, I've never personally been a Denon fan. The ones I've owned always sounded too sterile, too mechanical to me. I've owned a couple Yamaha's and was happy with those. Maybe check out the Aventage RX-A780 or RX-A880.

Did you end up going with the B&W M1's? Or are you still using the SVS Prime Elevations? How do you have them placed? I've sometimes found with calibration software like Audyssey, MCACC, ARC, etc., if the speakers aren't placed properly to start with, the calibration will produce some wonky results, often times resulting in an EQ that is way too bright. When you're doing your calibration make sure the speaker tweeters are aimed toward your main listening position and make sure the calibration mic is placed at approximately the same height as the tweeters. You should be using something like a camera tripod to hold the mic and moving that around from position to position.
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post #10 of 11 Old 04-19-2019, 06:58 PM
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Glad to hear things are better now. I would definitely re-run Audyssey if you have changed speakers. Make sure you do it when it's absolutely quiet in the house. Also, make sure the very first position you place the mic in is exactly where your head will be and at ear level. This will help ensure all the trim levels are set properly as well as the timing levels. Then, do the next two measurements in the same line, about 2 feet out on each side from the first measurement. After that, do position 4 about 2 feet forward of position 1, then do about two feet to each side of position 4. The last two should be about halfway between position 1 and 4, and a little to the side (about 2-3 inches left of center, and then about 2-3 inches right of center. That should give your AVR some good data and help you get good clean dialog and balanced frequency response.
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post #11 of 11 Old 04-20-2019, 08:07 AM
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You've done some things here to fix the issue. But I want to comment on your first thought, that the receiver, The Denon was the problem. As with speakers that often get labeled bright or fatiguing.
Maybe it's not the new piece of equipment. maybe the new piece of equipment is now showcasing the inadequacies of the source. Something the old piece of equipment was deficient at! I know my system easily, and unfortunately, shows the horrible compression of cable music/TV in my area.


A lot of people didn't realize the first generations of CDs were horrible, People with accurate speakers and quality amps were saying "Wait a minute!" this sucks.
And they went back and re-mastered most of them.

Music, more music.
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