"OFFICIAL" 2019 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
I have a Def tech SSA-50 passive soundbar with five channels. LFC and two surrounds which I can hook up to front wide channels. Then, I have two inwall polk audio surrounds and two inceiling polk audio downfiring speakers. Total 9 speakers and one polk sub. I have a Denon 4520Ci from 2013 but the ARC is acting up with my LG OLED 65C7.

Looking to upgrade to either x4500h (2018) or x3600h (2019). I know the 4500 is 9 channels but 3600 is only 7 channels. And I also know that 4500h is not being replaced in 2019 per the earlier posts.

What is the downside of getting a 4500h as opposed to one of the 2019 models if I do NOT care about: eARC on-board (3600h) as opposed to via firmware update for 4500h; dont care about airplay on/off function (not even sure what this means), dont care about dolby Atmos Height virtualization if I already have height speakers why do I need virtualizing those two height channels; and dont care about HDCP 2.3 (who know what this does other than hearsay about its 8K support).

I am not sure what 2019 models bring to table as opposed to going with a 4500h 2018 model.
As of 2016, Front Wide speakers are no longer supported on other than the current "flagship" X8500H. If you plan on connecting all 9 speakers, you'll want to use the X4500H which had the eARC firmware update installed last year.
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post #62 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 07:48 AM
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As of 2016, Front Wide speakers are no longer supported on other than the current "flagship" X8500H. If you plan on connecting all 9 speakers, you'll want to use the X4500H which had the eARC firmware update installed last year.
Thanks a lot for the quick response. I spoke with def tech's awesome tech support team and they said that I can use the two unused L & R Surround channels on the SSA50 for Front Wide L&R. Given that x4500h has the eARC and Airplay 2 which is a big deal for me, I think it makes sense to go with that. Only question is how much of a big deal is it to have Dolby Atmos Virtualization which is not on x4500h. Do we need a virtualization of sound if we actually have height speakers and x4500h capable Atmos decoding processing tech?
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post #63 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
Thanks a lot for the quick response. I spoke with def tech's awesome tech support team and they said that I can use the two unused L & R Surround channels on the SSA50 for Front Wide L&R. Given that x4500h has the eARC and Airplay 2 which is a big deal for me, I think it makes sense to go with that. Only question is how much of a big deal is it to have Dolby Atmos Virtualization which is not on x4500h. Do we need a virtualization of sound if we actually have height speakers and x4500h capable Atmos decoding processing tech?
1. As Front Wide is not a supported option, you would need to connect a second set of wires from the Front L/R speaker posts to those speaker posts.
2. If you plan on using "height" speakers, then no, Dolby Virtualization is not necessary.
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post #64 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. As Front Wide is not a supported option, you would need to connect a second set of wires from the Front L/R speaker posts to those speaker posts.
2. If you plan on using "height" speakers, then no, Dolby Virtualization is not necessary.
Thanks a lot JDSMOOTHIE. Just got off the call with Def tech and they suggested NOT to lump the front L&R channels and the unused Surr L&R into the same front L&R speaker posts as doing so would cause unintended consequences.

I see that x4500H or x6500H have no front Wide Channels option. Looks like the front wide channels is not part of the Atmos or DTS X configuration and receiver manufacturers don't care about that anymore.

I just dont know what to do with the two unused channels on my SSA-50.

I see the word "assignable" on the back of x4500h picture under the Height channels (4 speaker posts for two sets of heights). What does this word assignable mean. Does it mean I can assign one set of heights to Wide speakers? Probably not. But just checking.
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post #65 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
Thanks a lot JDSMOOTHIE. Just got off the call with Def tech and they suggested NOT to lump the front L&R channels and the unused Surr L&R into the same front L&R speaker posts as doing so would cause unintended consequences.

I see that x4500H or x6500H have no front Wide Channels option. Looks like the front wide channels is not part of the Atmos or DTS X configuration and receiver manufacturers don't care about that anymore.

I just dont know what to do with the two unused channels on my SSA-50.

I see the word "assignable" on the back of x4500h picture under the Height channels (4 speaker posts for two sets of heights). What does this word assignable mean. Does it mean I can assign one set of heights to Wide speakers? Probably not. But just checking.
1. Front Wide is supported by both Atmos and DTS:X.
2. Where are the in-wall surrounds located? If behind you, they could be connected to the Surround Back speaker posts, otherwise, if to your side, then they will likely provide better side surround audio than the soundbar can do.
3. The Height 1 and Height 2 can be assigned to different speaker configurations as noted in the Owner's manual; however, this does NOT include Front Wide. One more time … the only current model that supports Front Wide is the Denon X8500H.
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post #66 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 10:29 AM
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1. Front Wide is supported by both Atmos and DTS:X.
2. Where are the in-wall surrounds located? If behind you, they could be connected to the Surround Back speaker posts, otherwise, if to your side, then they will likely provide better side surround audio than the soundbar can do.
3. The Height 1 and Height 2 can be assigned to different speaker configurations as noted in the Owner's manual; however, this does NOT include Front Wide. One more time … the only current model that supports Front Wide is the Denon X8500H.
Thanks a lot for the response. I appreciate it. Please see my responses:

1. I just had two in-ceiling down-firing Polk Audio speakers installed about 18 inches diagonally in front of my listening position (couch) so they are NOT in the back of my listening position but in my front towards somewhat middle of the room. I can only use two ceiling down firing speakers in my set up.

2. Holy Cow - x8500h is $4000 and I cannot afford that much. Perhaps in my situation a better option would be to get x4500h, leaving those two Surround speakers in my SSA-50 Soundbar ununsed.
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post #67 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
Thanks a lot for the response. I appreciate it. Please see my responses:

1. I just had two in-ceiling down-firing Polk Audio speakers installed about 18 inches diagonally in front of my listening position (couch) so they are NOT in the back of my listening position but in my front towards somewhat middle of the room. I can only use two ceiling down firing speakers in my set up.

2. Holy Cow - x8500h is $4000 and I cannot afford that much. Perhaps in my situation a better option would be to get x4500h, leaving those two Surround speakers in my SSA-50 Soundbar ununsed.
1. Wasn't referring to the location of the "in-ceiling" speakers, rather I was referring to the "in-wall" speakers.
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post #68 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 11:53 AM
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1. Wasn't referring to the location of the "in-ceiling" speakers, rather I was referring to the "in-wall" speakers.
Sorry, I misread what you wrote. The two L&R Surrounds are in-wall Polk speakers about a feet behind the listening position on the left and right side walls.
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post #69 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
Sorry, I misread what you wrote. The two L&R Surrounds are in-wall Polk speakers about a feet behind the listening position on the left and right side walls.
Configure the AVR depending on which configuration sounds best to you:

(a) Soundbar - L/C/R only; AVR - Surround (in-wall)

(b) Soundbar - L/C/R/SL/SR; AVR - Surround Back (in-wall)
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post #70 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Configure the AVR depending on which configuration sounds best to you:

(a) Soundbar - L/C/R only; AVR - Surround (in-wall)

(b) Soundbar - L/C/R/SL/SR; AVR - Surround Back (in-wall)

Option (a) will give me 5.1.2 setup
Option (b) will give me 7.1.2 setup

I think I like Option (b) better. Thanks a lot for your help jdsmoothie. I will go with x4500h.
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post #71 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
Option (a) will give me 5.1.2 setup
Option (b) will give me 7.1.2 setup

I think I like Option (b) better. Thanks a lot for your help jdsmoothie. I will go with x4500h.
That said, doesn't necessarily mean option (b) will sound better as ideally the Surround Back speakers should be behind you, not to your side which is why I suggested you try out both options.
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post #72 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 04:26 PM
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That said, doesn't necessarily mean option (b) will sound better as ideally the Surround Back speakers should be behind you, not to your side which is why I suggested you try out both options.
Okay will do jdsmoothie. Thank you. I wonder why most AV receiver companies are doing away with Wide channels. My 4520ci has all the bells and whistles minus the Atmos but its from 2013. It has height and Wide both. Weird that you only get those with highest models of Denon. Not even one or two step below like 4500 or 6500.
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post #73 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 04:31 PM
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What about variable refresh rate? Any news?
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post #74 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 04:39 PM
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Denon x3500h or x4500h are able to handle variable refresh rate to Samsung Q70 tv?
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post #75 of 741 Old 05-22-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Fillipe OR View Post
Denon x3500h or x4500h are able to handle variable refresh rate to Samsung Q70 tv?
Sorry guys, double post > wrong thread.
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post #76 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bajjikao89 View Post
Okay will do jdsmoothie. Thank you. I wonder why most AV receiver companies are doing away with Wide channels. My 4520ci has all the bells and whistles minus the Atmos but its from 2013. It has height and Wide both. Weird that you only get those with highest models of Denon. Not even one or two step below like 4500 or 6500.
The 4520CI can only do "2" height channels whereas the newer 9CH/11CH models gave up the Front Wide to do "4" height channels which is most ideal for Atmos/DTS:X/Auro 3D.
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post #77 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 02:25 PM
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I just bought an X3500 that is the best sounding AVR that I have ever used and is still in its return window.

I'm currently an 'old fashioned' 1080p guy but am finally going to upgrade to a 4K display within 12 months..... 8K is absolutely nowhere in my future.

Regarding the whole HDCP 2.2 vs 2.3 thing and 4K displays (not 8K)..... should I keep the better sounding 2.2 X3500, or return it and buy a newer 2.3 X2600 in terms of not having to do this all again in 3/4 years?

Man I hate buying new tech.... all opinions are appreciated.
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post #78 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I just bought an X3500 that is the best sounding AVR that I have ever used and is still in its return window.

I'm currently an 'old fashioned' 1080p guy but am finally going to upgrade to a 4K display within 12 months..... 8K is absolutely nowhere in my future.

Regarding the whole HDCP 2.2 vs 2.3 thing and 4K displays (not 8K)..... should I keep the better sounding 2.2 X3500, or return it and buy a newer 2.3 X2600 in terms of not having to do this all again in 3/4 years?

Man I hate buying new tech.... all opinions are appreciated.
Keep the X3500H or upgrade to the X3600H when available, otherwise, you're downgrading to Audyssey MultEQ XT going with the X2600H.
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post #79 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:11 PM
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Keep the X3500H or upgrade to the X3600H when available, otherwise, you're downgrading to Audyssey MultEQ XT going with the X2600H.
Hey jd! Yep that's my biggest concern, but I'm worried about buying a new 4K TV soon and then in a couple of years have the HDCP 2.3 thing suddenly be a problem.... Just want to keep the wife happy in the future by not having to buy another AVR, and me happy now with the sound of XT32.

What's your gut feeling on 4K and my 3500 being compatible for a long time?
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post #80 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:15 PM
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After 5 years with a Panasonic Plasma and the Denon AVR-X3100W, it's time for a major upgrade. I so hope the X3600H can be released sooner than July. The new TV will be in place end of June.
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post #81 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey jd! Yep that's my biggest concern, but I'm worried about buying a new 4K TV soon and then in a couple of years have the HDCP 2.3 thing suddenly be a problem.... Just want to keep the wife happy in the future by not having to buy another AVR, and me happy now with the sound of XT32.

What's your gut feeling on 4K and my 3500 being compatible for a long time?
Can't speak to HDCP 2.3 issues, although I'm guessing as long as you don't buy any HDCP 2.3 devices, you should be good to go with the X3500H.
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post #82 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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After 5 years with a Panasonic Plasma and the Denon AVR-X3100W, it's time for a major upgrade. I so hope the X3600H can be released sooner than July. The new TV will be in place end of June.
It's been late July the past few years IIRC.
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post #83 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:19 PM
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It's been late July the past few years IIRC.
Thanks.
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post #84 of 741 Old 05-23-2019, 03:30 PM
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Can't speak to HDCP 2.3 issues, although I'm guessing as long as you don't buy any HDCP 2.3 devices, you should be good to go with the X3500H.
While cross shopping for the Yamaha RX-A880, I saw that they specifically say that even though the AVR (I think the entire Aventage line) is spec'd for HDCP 2.2, it can be used as a 2.3 device

( https://usa.yamaha.com/files/downloa...l_Multi_A0.pdf )

I wonder if Denon will officially come out and say something similar, or if Yamaha did something different with their hardware that allows them to claim 2.3 compatibility?
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post #85 of 741 Old 05-24-2019, 10:58 AM
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I have a AVR-S650H connected to a Samsung Q9FN TV. A Firestick 4K is plugged into the Game HDMI port, and works well most of the time. Occasionally, when switching from HDMI 1 (DirecTV) to HDMI 4 (Game), there is no audio.

Turning the AVR-S650H and the Q9FN off and back on fixes it. Has this been an issue with previous models? Any ideas for a fix?
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post #86 of 741 Old 05-24-2019, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a AVR-S650H connected to a Samsung Q9FN TV. A Firestick 4K is plugged into the Game HDMI port, and works well most of the time. Occasionally, when switching from HDMI 1 (DirecTV) to HDMI 4 (Game), there is no audio.

Turning the AVR-S650H and the Q9FN off and back on fixes it. Has this been an issue with previous models? Any ideas for a fix?
This is the result of an HDMI handshake which can occur with some sources. Ensure the Game box is powered off when not in use. Also when first powering on the AVR, try the following: TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, Game box. Then switch to the Firestick. Otherwise you can also use a Harmony programmable remote to power the AVR off between sources if necessary.
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post #87 of 741 Old 05-24-2019, 03:44 PM
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If I buy an AVR-X4500h and have hardwired in-ceiling non-HEOS speakers setup on a zone 2 in my bedroom am I able to turn on the receiver (that will be in the living room), select zone 2, and play my itunes music (music is on my phone) all from my iphone without getting out of bed?

Will the music (iPhone to the AVR) be streaming over bluetooth or wifi?

Upgrading my old AVR-2808ci and new to this wifi stuff for home audio!

thanks!

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post #88 of 741 Old 05-25-2019, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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If I buy an AVR-X4500h and have hardwired in-ceiling non-HEOS speakers setup on a zone 2 in my bedroom am I able to turn on the receiver (that will be in the living room), select zone 2, and play my itunes music (music is on my phone) all from my iphone without getting out of bed?

Will the music (iPhone to the AVR) be streaming over bluetooth or wifi?

Upgrading my old AVR-2808ci and new to this wifi stuff for home audio!

thanks!
Yes to your question as Zone 2 and Zone 3 are not HEOS zones. You would most likely use Airplay; however, note that you're posting in the wrong thread. The X4500H is discussed in the 2018 Denon AVR Owner's thread linked below.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...sts-1-8-a.html
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post #89 of 741 Old 05-25-2019, 10:35 AM
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You would most likely use Airplay
Actually he can use the Heos app directly to play the music stored on his phone -- the advantage over Airplay in this situation is that he could control it all through the Heos app including turning off the other zones. If he just goes direct Airplay from his iTunes music app on the phone it will wake the whole receiver and start playing music in main zone, then he'd have to switch to the AVR Remote app and diddle with the power states in each zone.
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post #90 of 741 Old 05-25-2019, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually he can use the Heos app directly to play the music stored on his phone -- the advantage over Airplay in this situation is that he could control it all through the Heos app including turning off the other zones. If he just goes direct Airplay from his iTunes music app on the phone it will wake the whole receiver and start playing music in main zone, then he'd have to switch to the AVR Remote app and diddle with the power states in each zone.
Great! Good to know as I don't stream from my phone.
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