"OFFICIAL" 2019 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 247Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 06:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
wow that far back eh? where'd you get that spreadsheet? dealer intel?
No, a fellow member of AVS, can't remember his name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
beyond atmos+allm i haven't really read up on many other things. what's the deal with upmixing for newer model vs. older models? what's changed?
Dolby has a new mandate, that forces the manufacturers to upmix Dolby soundtracks only with a Dolby upmixer (Dolby Surround upmixer / DSU) or with a manufacturer's proprietary upmixer, but DTS Neural:X and Auromatic are no longer allowed to upmix any Dolby soundtrack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
as i understand it after atmos came along everything is now "dolby surround" including all upmixes into height channels right?
Upmixing is not a new format that came after Atmos, is not better than native Atmos*, but can be used when a native 3D soundtrack (Atmos/DTS:X/Auro-3D) is not available but you want to use the overhead/height speakers - those would go silent if no upmixer is used.

*there are exceptions...
mrtickleuk likes this.
dfa973 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 06:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
isn't all this upmix business similar those DPL and all its subsequent iterations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
No, a fellow member of AVS, can't remember his name.



Dolby has a new mandate, that forces the manufacturers to upmix Dolby soundtracks only with a Dolby upmixer (Dolby Surround upmixer / DSU) or with a manufacturer's proprietary upmixer, but DTS Neural:X and Auromatic are no longer allowed to upmix any Dolby soundtrack.



Upmixing is not a new format that came after Atmos, is not better than native Atmos*, but can be used when a native 3D soundtrack (Atmos/DTS:X/Auro-3D) is not available but you want to use the overhead/height speakers - those would go silent if no upmixer is used.

*there are exceptions...

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #183 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 06:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
isn't all this upmix business similar those DPL and all its subsequent iterations?
Yes, DSU is the next generation of Dolby ProLogic.
dfa973 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #184 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 83,999
Mentioned: 739 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22586 Post(s)
Liked: 12292
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
the only other features is apps or how 'smart' you want your AVR to be. which 4500 and i assume 4600 will still retain. i dunno if the comparisons are correct, but 4600 can play 24/192 flac files... whilst according to denon's comparison site... the 3600 cant?

so still have to weigh those things i guess. i'm a long ways off from upgrading.
As noted in post 1 of this thread, the 2018 X4500H and X6500H continue thru 2019 with no replacement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
wow that far back eh? where'd you get that spreadsheet? dealer intel?

beyond atmos+allm i haven't really read up on many other things. what's the deal with upmixing for newer model vs. older models? what's changed?

as i understand it after atmos came along everything is now "dolby surround" including all upmixes into height channels right?
Nope. There are three "3D" up-mixers that can be used on the X4500H/X6500H - Dolby Surround, DTS Neural:X, and AuroMatic.
jdsmoothie is online now  
post #185 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 09:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
so outside of "native" 24/192 playback on the 4500, is there any other feature on there that would be good to get vs. just getting the 3600?

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #186 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 12:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,085
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4874 Post(s)
Liked: 7169
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
wow that far back eh? where'd you get that spreadsheet? dealer intel?
I created it and shared it here, based on gathering together the knowledge of the crowd of helpful people here

That's why the X4200W has a box around it - that's mine, and my mate has an X4000!

It's not official at all. Corrections always welcome and I shall try to keep it up to date.
Baff and Madmax67 like this.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs

Last edited by mrtickleuk; 07-11-2019 at 12:53 PM.
mrtickleuk is online now  
post #187 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 01:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Baff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dark Side of the Earth
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
It's not official at all. Corrections always welcome and I shall try to keep it up to date.
This years models on your chart look to be colored for HDMI 2.1

LG 65" C9; Denon AVR-S750H
5.1.2: Emotiva Airmotiv C2, T-Zero (x2), E1 (x4); HSU VTF-2
Baff is offline  
post #188 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 01:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
the only other features is apps or how 'smart' you want your AVR to be. which 4500 and i assume 4600 will still retain. i dunno if the comparisons are correct, but 4600 can play 24/192 flac files... whilst according to denon's comparison site... the 3600 cant?
1. X4600H probably will be a 2020 model, not a 2019 model, so the X3600H can be compared for now only with the 2018 X4500H.

2. The Denon's online comparator is a joke - full of mistakes - examples:
--- Max Number of Processing (Preamp) Channels = 9.2 for X4500H but the X3600H has 11.2...
--- DTS Virtual:X - X3600H has something mangled about Dolby, the X4500H doesn't have it, but X2600H has it...
--- Media Server - X2600H/X4500H has it, but X3600H not...
--- HEOS Wireless Multi-Room Technology - every H model has it, but, no, the puny X3600H doesn't have it...
--- HEOS App Control? Nope! Missing on the X3600H...
--- CEC? No, no CEC for X3600H...
--- Audio Return Channel? Nope!
--- Auto LipSync? Nope!
--- Enhanced Audio Return Channel / eARC? Nope! They run out of stock for X3600H...
--- ALLM (Auto Low Latency Mode)? Same story...
--- FLAC HD 192/24 - the comparator says that it's supported on X2600H, X3600H and X4500H...
- but who cares...!

it's a mess...

Last edited by dfa973; 07-11-2019 at 01:29 PM.
dfa973 is offline  
post #189 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 01:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baff View Post
This years models on your chart look to be colored for HDMI 2.1
That coloring for 2019 models was made by me.
Only because of HDCP 2.3.
dfa973 is offline  
post #190 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 01:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
so outside of "native" 24/192 playback on the 4500, is there any other feature on there that would be good to get vs. just getting the 3600?
As mentioned before, not sure about that missing FLAC HD 192/24...

From "Denon AVR-X3600H US Product_Information_Sheet.pdf":

Quote:
High-Resolution Audio Support
Enjoy superb audio fidelity with your favorite high-resolution audio tracks. The AVR-X3600H with AKM 32-bit D/A converters features high-resolution audio decoding with multiple lossless file types, including ALAC, FLAC and WAV at up to 24-bit/196-kHz.


For a quick gain/loose comparasion between X4500H and X3600H see this post - and you can go in depth by comparing the first posts of the 2018 and 2019 Denon threads.

Last edited by dfa973; 07-11-2019 at 02:11 PM.
dfa973 is offline  
post #191 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,085
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4874 Post(s)
Liked: 7169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baff View Post
This years models on your chart look to be colored for HDMI 2.1
Indeed, hmm. We thought that was going to be the case. Do we know the specs for all three models yet? I might need another colour

EDIT: ok, updated. Try this

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Denon-HDMI.png
Views:	573
Size:	38.2 KB
ID:	2589870  
Baff, Madmax67, silver-eye and 1 others like this.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs

Last edited by mrtickleuk; 07-11-2019 at 01:59 PM.
mrtickleuk is online now  
post #192 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 02:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Updated gain/loss comparison between the new 2019 X3600H and the "old" 2018 X4500H that it will be carried over through 2019 since no premium/flagships models (X4xxxH/X6xxxH/X8xxxH) will be released in 2019 - because all the models range will be updated to HDMI 2.1 in 2020.


Unsure of what model to buy? Do you want the slick design of X4500H but the lower price of X3600H? Tough choice! Let's breakdown the pluses and minuses of the new model!

With AVR-X3600H you gain:
- a 9.2ch receiver with a much lower price tag - the two main attractions of this model!!! *5);
- HDCP 2.3 - nice for future 8K streaming and possible 8K Blu-ray;
- Dolby Speaker Virtualizer *1) (feature delivered via future firmware update - delivered in August 2019) - equivalent to DTS Virtual:X, DSV has two roles/functions:
--- surround virtualization when you use 2.1/3.1 setups without surround speakers;
--- height virtualization when you use 5.1/7.1 setups without height, ceiling or “Dolby Atmos Enabled” speakers (height virtualization is also known as "Dolby Atmos height virtualization");
- Bluetooth transmitter (feature delivered via future firmware update);
- Automatic HDMI source rename - if the HDMI source is providing a custom name (feature delivered via future firmware update);
- OvrC Smart Remote Management compatibility;
- Automatic audio “INPUT MODE” assign - if set to AUTO it automatically detects and plays signal input prioritized in the following order: HDMI > DIGITAL > ANALOG;
- HDMI Multiple Input Assign - The same input connector can be assigned to multiple input sources;
- All Zone Stereo status can now be saved to the Quick Select Plus function to enable simple playback in All Zone Stereo mode with a single touch;


With AVR-X3600H you lose:
- a little power on the amps;
- the ability to apply DTS Neural:X upmixer on any source when the input signal is Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Atmos *2);
- the Center Spread feature of Dolby Surround upmixer *2);
- the Auro-3D immersive format decoder;
- the Auro-Matic upmixer;
- the metal front panel *6);
- the metal door *6);
- the dual-row display with signal channel indicators *6);
- the ability to control other devices with the IR remote control unit - using preset codes *4);
- the third audio Zone - ZONE3;
- Denon Link HD;
- the second trigger;
- D.D.S.C.-HD with AL32 Processing Multi-channel *3);
- the "Bass Sync" feature;
- the ability to set the component video output connector to video ZONE2 - limited to MAIN ZONE;
- the "2ch Playback" feature - the ability to set custom calibration for speaker size, SW On/Off, SW Mode, Crossover, FL+FR distances and levels when playing 2ch sources;

*1) - Dolby Speaker Virtualizer is not to be confounded with Dolby Virtual Speaker that was introduced around 2002 and was employed mostly on 2.0 soundbars or any device with only 2 speakers - Dolby Speaker Virtualizer is kind of an advanced version of Dolby Virtual Speaker, updated for multi-channel setups;
*2) - for all 2019 models and beyond (based on a 2018 issued Dolby mandate) - UPDATE: in August 2019 Dolby is withdrawing this limitation but it is unknown if Denon will issue a firmware update for enabling first-party and third-party post-processing (including upmixers and virtualisers) to audio encoded in Dolby formats;
*3) - no special audio processor is provided for X3600H that replaces the AL32 resampler/upmixer;
*4) - you get the RC-1228 remote from X2500H/X3500H, not the RC-1219 remote from X4500H;
*5) - the previous generation (2018) X3500H was unable to get into the IMAX Enhanced program because it was a 7.2ch receiver, now that X3600H is a 9.2ch receiver you also "gain" this feature - but practically is a "keep" feature because it is inherited from X4500H;
*6) - you basically get the classic 2018 X3500H front panel/display design instead of the X4500H premium design;

Last edited by dfa973; 09-18-2019 at 02:44 AM.
dfa973 is offline  
post #193 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 06:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Zoland2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Lack of Auro-3D on the X3600H isn't really a dealbreaker to me since there's absolutely no Auro-3D Blu-rays in North America and barely any releases over there in Europe. IMAX Enhanced is a nice addition to the receiver though, but in the end DTS:X and Dolby Atmos up to 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 is what interests me the most about this receiver since now I don't have to spend a fortune to get those features unless I wanna crawl back to Pioneer or Onkyo.
dfa973 likes this.

My current mancave room setup:
Vizio V436-G1 4K HDR TV | LG UBK90 4K Blu-ray player | Denon AVR-S740H AV Receiver (running 5.1.2 Atmos/DTS:X) | Xbox One X | Amazon Fire Stick 4K
Zoland2020 is offline  
post #194 of 754 Old 07-11-2019, 11:57 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Hello
I am curious, noone is talking about difference between NA and EU versions (also same for older models), there is missing support for pure direct mode for EU models. You can see it also when you open online manual from usa.denon vs uk.denon
I was trying to get some info about this from official support but they ignored me. Anyone have idea why they cut the feature ? is it only because difference voltage input 110V vs 230V ?
hsf22050 is offline  
post #195 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 12:59 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
No, a fellow member of AVS, can't remember his name.

Dolby has a new mandate, that forces the manufacturers to upmix Dolby soundtracks only with a Dolby upmixer (Dolby Surround upmixer / DSU) or with a manufacturer's proprietary upmixer, but DTS Neural:X and Auromatic are no longer allowed to upmix any Dolby soundtrack.

Upmixing is not a new format that came after Atmos, is not better than native Atmos*, but can be used when a native 3D soundtrack (Atmos/DTS:X/Auro-3D) is not available but you want to use the overhead/height speakers - those would go silent if no upmixer is used.

*there are exceptions...

if we want to compare the new dolby surround upmixer with 2018 model, is there any difference in conditions where 5.1.2 configuration is used ? Or they are same ?

If there would be difference can we expect the surround / height upmix would be better with this new dolby upmixer with comparison to DTS Neural:X ?

Is it only benefit for traditional 5.1 / 7.1 configuration where dolby will simulate now height/overhead effect but 5.1.2 will be same as 2018 models with only dolby suround upmixer?


According to wiki dolby surround should already have all these height upmixes
"Dolby reintroduced the Dolby Surround terminology in 2014 to refer to something entirely new. The term now refers to a new upmixer whose "... purpose is to enable Atmos receivers and speaker configurations to serve non-Atmos signals." Dolby Surround is a complete replacement for Pro Logic that upmixes stereo and multi-channel inputs to play over Atmos configurations. It is:

"...part of the Dolby Atmos bundle of technologies. It is an upmixer designed to function with traditional channel-based layouts, as well as Atmos enabled layouts that include overhead or Atmos-enabled speakers. It processes native stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 content."
hsf22050 is offline  
post #196 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 83,999
Mentioned: 739 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22586 Post(s)
Liked: 12292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoland2020 View Post
Lack of Auro-3D on the X3600H isn't really a dealbreaker to me since there's absolutely no Auro-3D Blu-rays in North America and barely any releases over there in Europe. IMAX Enhanced is a nice addition to the receiver though, but in the end DTS:X and Dolby Atmos up to 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 is what interests me the most about this receiver since now I don't have to spend a fortune to get those features unless I wanna crawl back to Pioneer or Onkyo.
Since Auro 3D was first released 5 years ago, many users have commented they prefer using the AuroMatic simulator (over Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X) when upmixing music to their height speakers.
Eggtuary and Zoland2020 like this.
jdsmoothie is online now  
post #197 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 05:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Unhappy

thank you!

as for Dolby Surround, in the past DPL you can upmix any source, not just DD signals, even LPCM.

is that not true on 3600? like if i sent it stereo LPCM i can't upmix it using Dolby SUrround?

whereas on 4500 you can?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I created it and shared it here, based on gathering together the knowledge of the crowd of helpful people here

That's why the X4200W has a box around it - that's mine, and my mate has an X4000!

It's not official at all. Corrections always welcome and I shall try to keep it up to date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Updated gain/loose comparison between the new 2019 X3600H and the 2018 X4500H


With AVR-X3600H you gain:
- a 9.2ch receiver with a lower price tag;
- HDCP 2.3
- Dolby Speaker Virtualizer (fw upd) - equivalent to DTS Virtual:X, DSV has two roles/functions:
--- surround virtualization when you use 2.1/3.1 setups without surround speakers;
--- height virtualization when you use 5.1/7.1 setups without height, ceiling or “Dolby Atmos Enabled” speakers (height virtualization is also known as "Dolby Atmos height virtualization");
- Bluetooth transmitter (fw upd)


With AVR-X3600H you loose:
- a little power on the amps;
- ability to apply Dolby Surround Upmixer on any audio codec (DSU restricted to only Dolby soundtracks*);
- Auro-3D/Auro-Matic;
- metal front panel;
- metal door;
- dual-row display with signal channel indicators;
- the RC-1219 remote from X4500H (you get the RC-1228 remote from X2500H/X3500H);
- the third Zone;
- Denon Link HD
- the second trigger

* also for future models from 2019 and up
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsf22050 View Post
if we want to compare the new dolby surround upmixer with 2018 model, is there any difference in conditions where 5.1.2 configuration is used ? Or they are same ?

If there would be difference can we expect the surround / height upmix would be better with this new dolby upmixer with comparison to DTS Neural:X ?

Is it only benefit for traditional 5.1 / 7.1 configuration where dolby will simulate now height/overhead effect but 5.1.2 will be same as 2018 models with only dolby suround upmixer?


According to wiki dolby surround should already have all these height upmixes
"Dolby reintroduced the Dolby Surround terminology in 2014 to refer to something entirely new. The term now refers to a new upmixer whose "... purpose is to enable Atmos receivers and speaker configurations to serve non-Atmos signals." Dolby Surround is a complete replacement for Pro Logic that upmixes stereo and multi-channel inputs to play over Atmos configurations. It is:

"...part of the Dolby Atmos bundle of technologies. It is an upmixer designed to function with traditional channel-based layouts, as well as Atmos enabled layouts that include overhead or Atmos-enabled speakers. It processes native stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 content."

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #198 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 05:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Zoland2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 93
@jdsmoothie No doubt though I did hear great things about the AuroMatic upmixer, not only for music but I've also seen some that prefer to use that for stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 movie upmixing over DTS Neural:X and/or Dolby Surround. I'd at least give credit to that useful feature to make up for Auro-3D barely having any native content compared to its two object-based rivals.
dfa973 likes this.

My current mancave room setup:
Vizio V436-G1 4K HDR TV | LG UBK90 4K Blu-ray player | Denon AVR-S740H AV Receiver (running 5.1.2 Atmos/DTS:X) | Xbox One X | Amazon Fire Stick 4K
Zoland2020 is offline  
post #199 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 05:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
as for Dolby Surround, in the past DPL you can upmix any source, not just DD signals, even LPCM.
Yes, with DSU you can mix any Dolby/DTS soundtracks, LPCM, and analog sources, just like DPL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
is that not true on 3600? like if i sent it stereo LPCM i can't upmix it using Dolby SUrround?
Yes, you can, DSU can upmix LPCM on X3600H and also on X4500H.

What is different between X4500H and X3600H is the fact that on X3600H you can't apply DTS Neural:X upmixer on Dolby soundtracks, only DSU is allowed to do that.

On X4500H you still can apply DTS Neural:X or Auro-Matic upmixer on Dolby soundtracks. From now on, any new hardware is restricted by Dolby, so DSU is limited to Dolby soundtracks.
X3600H doesn't have the Auro-Matic upmixer.
Madmax67 and Zoland2020 like this.
dfa973 is offline  
post #200 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsf22050 View Post
Hello
I am curious, noone is talking about difference between NA and EU versions (also same for older models), there is missing support for pure direct mode for EU models. You can see it also when you open online manual from usa.denon vs uk.denon
I was trying to get some info about this from official support but they ignored me. Anyone have idea why they cut the feature ? is it only because difference voltage input 110V vs 230V ?
What actual models did you compare?
dfa973 is offline  
post #201 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
gotchya, thanks!

waht's the auro-matic upmixer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Yes, with DSU you can mix any Dolby/DTS soundtracks, LPCM, and analog sources, just like DPL.



Yes, you can, DSU can upmix LPCM on X3600H and also on X4500H.

What is different between X4500H and X3600H is the fact that on X3600H you can't apply DTS Neural:X upmixer on Dolby soundtracks, only DSU is allowed to do that.

On X4500H you still can apply DTS Neural:X or Auro-Matic upmixer on Dolby soundtracks. From now on, any new hardware is restricted by Dolby, so DSU is limited to Dolby soundtracks.
X3600H doesn't have the Auro-Matic upmixer.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #202 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:15 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1
compare

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
What actual models did you compare?
I compared on x1500h and also on x1600h
I can also confirm personaly that its missing on eu version of x1500h
hsf22050 is offline  
post #203 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
gotchya, thanks!

waht's the auro-matic upmixer?
Auro-Matic is the upmixer from Auro-3D, a European 3D audio format, way less popular than Atmos or DTS:X.

Each 3D audio format has its own upmixer:

Atmos has Dolby Surround;
DTS:X has DTS Neural:X;
Auro-3D has Auro-Matic;
Zoland2020 likes this.
dfa973 is offline  
post #204 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
gotchya, thanks!

soi when it comes to upmixing... there is not too much of a difference than 3600 v 4500

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Auro-Matic is the upmixer from Auro-3D, a European 3D audio format, way less popular than Atmos or DTS:X.

Each 3D audio format has its own upmixer:

Atmos has Dolby Surround;
DTS:X has DTS Neural:X;
Auro-3D has Auro-Matic;

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #205 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
gotchya, thanks!

soi when it comes to upmixing... there is not too much of a difference than 3600 v 4500
Yes, but depends on what you want to do..., X4500H has no limitation on upmixing and one more upmixer than X3600H. But if you do not care about Auro-3D/Auro-Matic or the Dolby restriction, yes, not much difference between the two.
dfa973 is offline  
post #206 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 06:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsf22050 View Post
I compared on x1500h and also on x1600h
I can also confirm personaly that its missing on eu version of x1500h
Yes, there are differences between US and EU models, EU models lack some features that are on US models. Pure Direct is one of those features.

No one talks about because AVSForum is a US-centric forum.
dfa973 is offline  
post #207 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 07:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
i dont really care about auro3d >P there's like 1 maybe under 10 content with that.

as for Dolby restriction? can i get some clarification?

i want the ability to upmix any incoming source to DSU without any restrictions.

so based on re-reading... the 4500 doesn't have those restrictions.

but 3600 cannot allow non-Dolby upmix to alter and upmix Dolby codec signals is that correct?

for example my current AVR is 4308 and even if i'm getting Dolby Digital 2.0 right now, i can still use DTS Neo somn on those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Yes, but depends on what you want to do..., X4500H has no limitation on upmixing and one more upmixer than X3600H. But if you do not care about Auro-3D/Auro-Matic or the Dolby restriction, yes, not much difference between the two.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #208 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 07:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
as for Dolby restriction? can i get some clarification?

i want the ability to upmix any incoming source to DSU without any restrictions.
DSU can upmix any source on either X4500H or X3600H.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
but 3600 cannot allow non-Dolby upmix to alter and upmix Dolby codec signals is that correct?
Yes, X3600H does not permit that a Dolby source to be upmixed by any upmixer than DSU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
for example my current AVR is 4308 and even if i'm getting Dolby Digital 2.0 right now, i can still use DTS Neo somn on those.
On the X3600H, your Dolby Digital 2.0 source will be restricted to only DSU. The DTS Neural:X upmixer will not be allowed to touch that Dolby Digital 2.0 source.
dfa973 is offline  
post #209 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 07:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
JediFonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 37
excellent, then it shouldn't really matter.

3600 is looking more and more like an amazing deal!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
DSU can upmix any source on either X4500H or X3600H.




Yes, X3600H does not permit that a Dolby source to be upmixed by any upmixer than DSU.


On the X3600H, your Dolby Digital 2.0 source will be restricted to only DSU. The DTS Neural:X upmixer will not be allowed to touch that Dolby Digital 2.0 source.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
JediFonger is offline  
post #210 of 754 Old 07-12-2019, 09:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Madmax67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mckinney,Texas
Posts: 4,952
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2224 Post(s)
Liked: 2516
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsf22050 View Post
Hello

I am curious, noone is talking about difference between NA and EU versions (also same for older models), there is missing support for pure direct mode for EU models. You can see it also when you open online manual from usa.denon vs uk.denon

I was trying to get some info about this from official support but they ignored me. Anyone have idea why they cut the feature ? is it only because difference voltage input 110V vs 230V ?
Wish they would drop it in the NA models as well. No audible difference between it and simply Direct and one less setting to have to scroll through to get back to Auto. I guess it's a help for those without a dedicated screen off button on their TV like Sony offers. Other than that there's no practical reason for this setting in a receiver IMHO.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
Madmax67 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off