Any input on my 5.x.4 shortlist? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-06-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Any input on my 5.x.4 shortlist?

So I've been rocking a 2.2 setup for a while now by using a MiniSDP 2x4HD as my "receiver" because I currently live in a small apartment and I don't have room for more speakers. I'm moving in a few months to a house where I'll have a small but dedicated room for a setup and so I'm looking into getting a receiver. I believe I have it narrowed down to "3" options:

  1. Denon X4500h / Marantz SR6013
  2. Yamaha RX-V2085 / A2080
  3. Onkyo TX-RZ730 / RZ830

I believe the main difference is in the room correction software that's used however I'm not sure how much this matters to me because I'm going to run the AVR sub out into my MiniDSP and integrate my subwoofers manually (also planning on adding 2 more later ). I do like that the Onkyo units have 3 different EQ profiles which would allow me to dial in different house curves and swap between them easily. Aside from that, the only differences I can see is that the Denon/Marrantz have/support Auro-3D, which seems almost dead but could be fun to play with, and the Denon/Marantz and Yamahas will support eARC where as the Onkyos will not. The Yamahas appear to have a bunch of subtle audio settings (more than the other options) but I'm not sure how useful they are or if I even want those. One concern I have is that I'm planning on building some DIYSG speakers which are high sensitivity (96-99db) and noise floor is something that could become an issue with those, whether that's via the built in amplified outs or line level outs, so I would like to minimize noise if there's a difference.

Any recommendations on which way to go? Currently, there's just something about the Denon / Marrantz that I like but they're much more expensive than the Onkyo units.

Random related question: In general, if I'm using a 4k/60 source with a 4k/60 TV plugged into the HDMI out 1, can I plug in a 1080/30 device to HDMI out 2 and have the AVR output to both simultaneously with down-scaling only on port 2? In the case of the Denon/Marantz, instead of the HDMI out 2 being used, will it downscale the 4k/60 input to 480 and output to the yellow "video out"?

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post #2 of 21 Old 05-06-2019, 02:21 PM
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All of those are often recommended here, so it's really about your wants and needs.

If budget is the deciding factor you cannot beat the features found in the rz730/830.

If reliability is #1 , well Yamaha is known for that, which is probably why their receivers always seem to be $hundreds more.

If it's about good room correction, features, reliability and power then you can't go wrong with the DM recievers. Throw in there that Marantz is also a good 2 channels avr, so if music is a demand too, then take a look over at AC4L for an amazing deal on the 6013, with 3 yr warranty.

If it's about straight up theater power, sound and room correction under $1500, I think the NAD 758 v3 is often recommended.


I believe I read that an avr will downscale to the lowest level of the connected devices period. Yes I think RCA's are limited to 720x480 resolution.

Maybe @jdsmoothie can chime in and clarify if the DM independent hdmi outputs can play 2 different resolutions.


hope that helped get you started?
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-06-2019, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, that helps. Why do you say that the Marantz is also a good 2 channel AVR? I decided to post in the Denon thread about the down scaling question I had. I figure they'd know.

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post #4 of 21 Old 05-06-2019, 02:50 PM
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@CrusherW9 Marantz has special hdam circuits that are supposed to clean up the sound for music listening. There was a long discussion in an old Marantz thread that I was in back when I was looking to get a 5012. - Marantz developed its own discrete circuit boards to replace standard IC's. These HDAM's consists of discrete surface mount components with short mirror image L/R signal paths. Those devices are doing exactly the same thing as the Op-Amps, but outperform the regular IC Op-amps dramatically in terms of the Slew Rate and reduced noise level, resulting in a much more dynamic, accurate and detailed sound.

Yea I am sure there is another owner here who has a 4k display in room 1 and say an old 1080p plasma in another room or maybe even in the same room.
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-06-2019, 04:11 PM
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The prices weren't nearly as close when I was shopping for my Marantz SR6011, but I would say get the Denon purely for the full front display... I find myself relying more heavily on the Marantz's OSD than I like to simply because I can't get the info I'd like (mainly surround mode and input signal info) from the porthole screen on the AVR. At the time I could have got the 4300h for ~$120 more and in retrospect I wish I had if for only that reason (minimal power difference and music listening weren't a factor for me).

Also, having the MiniDSP and knowing how to use it does make the room-correction piece a little less relevant, so if you can snag one of the $499 deals on the RZ830, it may honestly be the best value proposition... and that's coming from a big believer in MultEQ32 and MultEQ Editor.
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:03 AM
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I would take the RZ730 out of the equation, it does not support eARC (the Denon X4500/Marantz SR6013, the Yamaha 2080/2085, and the Onkyo RZ830/Pioneer LX503 [sister to the RZ830] should all have it). At least, the firmware upgrade that came out at the same time as the eARC-update for the 830 did not add eARC to the 730. May not be entirely useful if you do not plan on using anything that needs the HDMI 2.1 bandwidth (seems like 8k/4k120hz are 'big' things that need the increased bandwidth), but it seems like it would be worth the added cost going from the 730 to the 830 if you were leaning towards the 730. I know future-proofing is relatively impossible, but eARC just seems like it would really help extend the life of these non-HDMI 2.1 receivers.


Really depends on how much you want to save/how valuable your time is: the Pioneer/Onkyo AVRs (as stated above) seem to be a great deal (you may be able to have Frys ship you an LX503 for ~$499.99+tax [there is a thread about Frys deals, code 2288 should work in cart]).



I picked up an LX503 and really like it so far, but I would not be too bothered if I need to send it in for repairs (I can live headphones-only for a while), but honestly I doubt you can go wrong with any of the receivers that you pick.


Good luck!
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah, good to know. I was leaning towards the 830 vs the 730 simply for the looks and extra power (I'm aware how little +10w is). I suppose I'll take the 730 out of the running then. I'm going to look through the manuals again to try and remove some more options but it'll probably just come down to what's the most on sale when I'm ready to buy one.
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:45 AM
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I had two different Onkyo AVR's prior to my current Denon (x4400h) and while I liked the Onkyo's, I love the Denon! I would highly recommend the x4500h out of those listed above.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I had two different Onkyo AVR's prior to my current Denon (x4400h) and while I liked the Onkyo's, I love the Denon! I would highly recommend the x4500h out of those listed above.
If I had the cash to spare, that would be the one I'd have gotten!


Figured I could cut corners on the AVR to continue saving up for a new GPU and TV (whenever AMD/nVidia release an HDMI 2.1 card [assuming nVidia supports VRR over HDMI]).
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 08:10 AM
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Marantz has special hdam circuits...
Love the avatar! Is that your blown '64 DeVille?
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 08:12 AM
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@RUR i wish. I have friends with a 62 and a 65 and one of them has this picture on the wall in his shop/garage. I borrowed it from google images
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 08:45 AM
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Depending on your size of your room, I would recommend the 830 for $525. My room is 2k cubed and there's plenty of headroom. Your 2x4 will be a great added addition. I compare the AccuEQ and standing wave mods to nothing and it does a great job! Distance is dead nuts on and using an SPL meter the most I have to mod my speakers is .5dB. it's 120 watts/channel.

The 840 was just announced. It's 200 watts/channel and has a 9pt calibration so if you have more seats I think it might be worth it. If you have a big room and can use the 200 watts/channel it might also be worth it. Im guessing it's going to be able to he had for $700.

There is a huge point of diminishing returns for anything aside from Onkyo. You will pay twice the price for what.... Dual sub integration? You have a 2x4 which is better than anything else offered. AccuEQ works great in my case and just about everyone else I have read. The only downfall is you can't see the EQ changes. You can add 3 preset house curves though which I do to increase bass or kill bass. It's super simple to hit a button to engage as well. The remote is kinda weak but who cares. It does everything I need. Having it light up would be a welcome upgrade and worth 25$ more on the price.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 10:20 AM
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The 840 was just announced. It's 200 watts/channel and has a 9pt calibration so if you have more seats I think it might be worth it. If you have a big room and can use the 200 watts/channel it might also be worth it. Im guessing it's going to be able to he had for $700.
The new rz840 is no more powerful than the rz830. That rating you mention is 200 watts channel at 1khz with 10% THD. The actual literature says 215 w/ch 10% THD at 1khz
https://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/3...tasheet_EN.pdf

who runs their AVR at one frequency? Totally useless rating.

The rz830 claims the same specs. They're both rated at 120 w channels with 2 channels driver at 0.08 THD 20hz - 20khz.
https://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mo...class=Receiver

Please don't get caught up with inflated power numbers. Mfrs do this to get you to pay more for newer models and it looks like its working on you. the rz840 may have newer and better features which is what one should concentrate on as the inflated power numbers are useless. Both units have the same power supply

Also Onkyo has lowered the price of the rz830 even more, which makes it even at better deal. check it out on the above link I posted.
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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You have a 2x4 which is better than anything else offered. AccuEQ works great in my case and just about everyone else I have read. The only downfall is you can't see the EQ changes. You can add 3 preset house curves though which I do to increase bass or kill bass. It's super simple to hit a button to engage as well.
That's what I was thinking as well. My more long term plan is to build a dedicated DSP PC and x channel amp/s in order to manually EQ all the channels via the pre-outs so I'm kinda thinking I don't care about room correction that much. The 3 preset house curves is super nice, though, and is a big feature I think the others are missing. I'll have to read about the 840 to see what's up with that.

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post #15 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 11:16 AM
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Some guys here don't even use the room eq. I swear I have read about guys manually adjusting everything with a tape measure??

thanks @afrogt , that price is crazy!
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 01:13 PM
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That's what I was thinking as well. My more long term plan is to build a dedicated DSP PC and x channel amp/s in order to manually EQ all the channels via the pre-outs so I'm kinda thinking I don't care about room correction that much. The 3 preset house curves is super nice, though, and is a big feature I think the others are missing. I'll have to read about the 840 to see what's up with that.
I've had the 820 for a year now and it's been really good. Easy to use, accuEQ can't really tell a difference on or off, which I suppose is a good thing since it's not messing with things that don't need to be messed with. I have some initial trouble with the bass, mostly user error on that one. Once I figured it out everything sounds much better than with my old HK.

And it doesn't run very hot. The DMs by all reports run very hot with many users putting fans on them.

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post #17 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
The new rz840 is no more powerful than the rz830. That rating you mention is 200 watts channel at 1khz with 10% THD. The actual literature says 215 w/ch 10% THD at 1khz
https://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/3...tasheet_EN.pdf

who runs their AVR at one frequency? Totally useless rating.

The rz830 claims the same specs. They're both rated at 120 w channels with 2 channels driver at 0.08 THD 20hz - 20khz.
https://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mo...class=Receiver

Please don't get caught up with inflated power numbers. Mfrs do this to get you to pay more for newer models and it looks like its working on you. the rz840 may have newer and better features which is what one should concentrate on as the inflated power numbers are useless. Both units have the same power supply

Also Onkyo has lowered the price of the rz830 even more, which makes it even at better deal. check it out on the above link I posted.
I appreciate you clearing that up for the group my friend. In most literature online, it states the big watts/ channel in the first line. I wouldn't have known had you not said anything. Regardless, My 2k cubed room is deafening at reference and reference is at 80%. I would imagine you would need 15kcubed to not have enough juice.
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Some guys here don't even use the room eq. I swear I have read about guys manually adjusting everything with a tape measure??

thanks @afrogt , that price is crazy!
That and an SPL meter is all you need unless you want to deal with some peaks and valleys. The Onkyo does a heck of a job flattening it out in my room. Without it its very bright and tinny. It is not perfect by any means and I am sure the $4500 Denon does a much better job, but for my wallet and my ears, I am very happy. I think the only way to get it perfect would be with an 8x8 and a well treated room regardless of how much money you spend on your gear..
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post #19 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:42 PM
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I've had the 820 for a year now and it's been really good. Easy to use, accuEQ can't really tell a difference on or off, which I suppose is a good thing since it's not messing with things that don't need to be messed with. I have some initial trouble with the bass, mostly user error on that one. Once I figured it out everything sounds much better than with my old HK.

And it doesn't run very hot. The DMs by all reports run very hot with many users putting fans on them.
I am pretty sure the 830 has an upgraded AccuEQ. Its day and night turning it on and off. I would love to compare the 830 to 840, but no way I would upgrade(sidegrade). Movies are fine with it. I have a keen ear for music and I will probably get a 2x4hd and an amp for Stereo sound once I get some decent speakers. I think its sacrilegious to use anything but 2.1 for music unless its encoded for something else. I respect producers and artists too much.
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:45 PM
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I am pretty sure the 830 has an upgraded AccuEQ. Its day and night turning it on and off. I would love to compare the 830 to 840, but no way I would upgrade(sidegrade). Movies are fine with it. I have a keen ear for music and I will probably get a 2x4hd and an amp for Stereo sound once I get some decent speakers. I think its sacrilegious to use anything but 2.1 for music unless its encoded for something else. I respect producers and artists too much.
The AccuEQ wasn't changed much. Your room and speakers are what determines how much "correction" the software does. So if your room and speakers interact well there won't be much if any noticeable effect.

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post #21 of 21 Old 05-07-2019, 06:59 PM
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All I know is that I love the way Audyssey XT32 works in my room. I have the Audyssey app and the before and after graphs are crazy in terms of how poor the results are before room correction and how flat they look after. I have very poor room acoustics but Audyssey is able to do an amazing job with flattening frequency response.
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