Dedicated ARC Genesis thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by wyld0 View Post
Are you using a miniDSP to align subs before running ARC?

I actually have a miniDSP that I use in my 2.1 system connect to my PC for audio so I'm familiar with miniDSP, but it seems like folks might also use for multiple subs with surround room correction and it's another thing I want to compare versus other room correction systems (is it necessary/recommended for any multi-sub system regardless of ARC, Dirac, Audyssey).

I'm not familiar with Audyssey, which may or may not handle time aligning multiple subs well, but I would think any system with multiple subs would benefit from having a miniDSP. It's the most accurate way to be able to time align multiple subs and it provides a lot of flexibility to further fine tune the individual sub outputs. It also provides the benefit of being able to do things like BEQ.
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post #332 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
In that case, you could always just try it and see what happens. I frequently experiment with differing profiles. In the AVM 60 I can create 4 profiles from my measurement and try different manipulations.
Yes, thanks. I'm sure I'll do the same at 400Hz. I haven't ran Genesis yet but plan to this weekend once I can find out how to set and use the "house curve"?

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post #333 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WLC View Post
I also have not understood the apparent support for Audyssey versus ARC.



So there are 4 of us. What do we do now? Anybody know?
I support making this a sticky!!

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post #334 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by WLC View Post
This probably won't help, but, is there an input gain on the amplifier that can be adjusted?
Unfortunately not...
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post #335 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
Hey I really want to thank all you guys for starting this thread and all the great information that can be found here.
I ran Genesis when it first came out and wound up going back to my ARC2 setting. It was because of my lack of knowledge with the new ARC.

Well I've been lurking on here, reading and learning... today I took the plunge with Genesis and I'm glad I did..!

My theater sounds fantastic now!!!

Thanks guys.
Keep up the hard work.
What did you do differently via settings with Genesis than ARC-2?

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post #336 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
What did you do differently via settings with Genesis than ARC-2?
Not sure what he did differently but for me the difference was night and day without doing anything different. Now, I'm trying to dial it all in which is very time consuming because every change needs to be uploaded before you can hear what you did. I wish there was a way to connect to the processor and make changes in real time.
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post #337 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
I was fully expecting to take advantage of the professional version so that I could run my subs a tad hot in the low end...but Genesis did such an incredible job with just the auto mode, I don't really feel like messing with it. What it did for the low end response in this room is shocking. The bass is so much more present and visceral, something I wasn't sure I'd be able to achieve in a smaller room like this.

I was watching First Man the other day, and some of those scenes made me feel like my room was the actual space capsule. The last thing I wanted to do was drop this sort of money on an Anthem 720, but once I decided to go with Atmos, it was really the only choice for me. I did not want to be w/out Anthem given how much it helped when I had a 520. Love this software.

BTW, if I go into the pro mode at some point, am I able to treat it like a buffet and only adjust a couple areas of interest? Or do I have to be proficient in all sorts of other areas and make full adjustments? I'm hesitant to use it, not only because auto sounds amazing, but also because I'd be afraid I'd mess up a setting that I didn't have proper understanding of, without realizing it.

Thanks!

PS. After reading through the advanced settings manual for Genesis, it appears that Anthem recommends that the best way to enhance the low end response is STILL via the room gain (dB) adjustment. It says this will enhance the low end response "below 150-300hz". Can one reasonably assume that means it will enhance the extension down into the lower regions (e.g. 20-60hz) within the sub's abilities? And do you guys agree that the room gain is the best way to run the subs a tad hot w/out sacrificing blend?
Great info...also, where did you find the manual for Genesis? Thank you.

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post #338 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 12:09 PM
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Im thinking of going back to anthem from nad and dirac....
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post #339 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
What did you do differently via settings with Genesis than ARC-2?
It been a few weeks since I ran Genesis now and can't really remember what I did but, if I remember correctly with Genesis you are able to adjust the correction limit for each speakers individually.
So you can make adjustments to your mains up to day 300hz and then make adjustments to your side surrounds at say 1000 and so-on..
You get the idea.

Genesis gives you a lot more flexibility over ARC-2..

I need to re-run Genesis again as I just upgraded my amplifiers...
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post #340 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
That's what I did with ARC-2 because it sounded much better set somewhere between 300-800 Hz.

However, with Genesis, I'm using 5kHz because the dynamics are still very much there. The correction is no longer stifling the mids.
Interesting...when using ARC-2, I also had 4 presets set at 300/400/500Hz and will now use 5kHz (5,000Hz) for one of the settings to see what it sounds like. thanks

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post #341 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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Hi Guys,

This is an interesting thread, and I am enjoying learning more about ARC Genesis. It sounds very cool! I started by reading the most recent posts and have since been reading the thread from the beginning. I think I can explain why the bass might sound relatively more muddled (compared to boosting only the subwoofers, below a certain frequency) with the Deep Bass Boost affecting all of the speakers and not just the subs.

AVR crossovers use high-pass filters and low-pass filters to provide more gradual transitions from speakers to subwoofers. Those filters don't act as brick walls, abruptly cutting-off the sound. They just gradually attenuate the sound. That way, we aren't suddenly hearing the subwoofers cut-on, and the speakers cut-off. Typically, the high-pass filter for the speakers reduces the volume by 12db per octave. So, implementing an 80Hz crossover would gradually and symmetrically roll-off the volume of those speakers by 12db at 40Hz.

But, if you are boosting all of the channels by 6db at 40Hz, you are adding back 6db at that specific frequency. Now the speakers, which were getting softer from 80Hz down, are suddenly louder again, and a 6db increase in volume at 40Hz could make enough difference to be audible. That would especially be the case if you were able to compare that sound to a completely different approach, such as the application of a house curve added only to the subwoofers.

Frankly, I think that some speakers might distort a bit if they were playing 40Hz frequencies only 6db lower than they were having to play 80Hz frequencies, and the muddled sound could be that distortion. Of course, that would depend somewhat on the master volume level and the native content. The louder the volume level, the more potential distortion. (There can also be some potential phase issues involved when speakers and subs--particularly ported subs--play the same frequencies.)

Low-frequency distortion tends to sound somewhat boomy or unclear, unlike high-frequency distortion which sounds screechy or piercing. A somewhat unclear or cluttered bass sound could be a pretty good description of low-frequency distortion. Boosting channels by 6db at 40Hz could actually be considered somewhat counterproductive to setting 80Hz crossovers for those channels in the first place.

I don't want anyone who is currently enjoying that feature to suddenly become self-conscious about it because of my post. But, it occurs to me that since Anthem seems to be pretty cutting-edge with their updates, it might be worthwhile for some owners to contact them about allowing users to choose whether or not to apply the Deep Bass Boost to all of the channels, as opposed to applying it only to the subwoofers. Or, ARC could just let that feature affect only the subwoofers, by default. That would be an even better solution.

I hope that no one minds me commenting on this.

Regards,
Mike
Not sure if you're explanation is correct, but it sure makes sense. I've experimented with bass boost and have found that it muddies things up at any level on my system. I started with 3 dB, down to 2, then 1, then off with subjective decrease in the "muddiness" until off. It seems the room gain is more aggressive with Genesis then ARC - in my system almost 6 dB - and I think it might be just right by itself.
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post #342 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Not sure if you're explanation is correct, but it sure makes sense. I've experimented with bass boost and have found that it muddies things up at any level on my system. I started with 3 dB, down to 2, then 1, then off with subjective decrease in the "muddiness" until off. It seems the room gain is more aggressive with Genesis then ARC - in my system almost 6 dB - and I think it might be just right by itself.
I concur. The bass boost doesn't do nice things to the overall sound.

If you have 2+ quality subs as you should, you have MORE than enough punch and even response in your room with Genesis already.
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post #343 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 05:13 PM
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Critical audio error running ARC Genesis on Anthem MRX720

Hello, I am getting a critical audio error message with the latest version of ARC Genesis on both my Mac and my PC for my Anthem MRX 720. Anybody figure out how to solve this issue?
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post #344 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Deep Bass Boost

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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Guys,

This is an interesting thread, and I am enjoying learning more about ARC Genesis. It sounds very cool! I started by reading the most recent posts and have since been reading the thread from the beginning. I think I can explain why the bass might sound relatively more muddled (compared to boosting only the subwoofers, below a certain frequency) with the Deep Bass Boost affecting all of the speakers and not just the subs.

AVR crossovers use high-pass filters and low-pass filters to provide more gradual transitions from speakers to subwoofers. Those filters don't act as brick walls, abruptly cutting-off the sound. They just gradually attenuate the sound. That way, we aren't suddenly hearing the subwoofers cut-on, and the speakers cut-off. Typically, the high-pass filter for the speakers reduces the volume by 12db per octave. So, implementing an 80Hz crossover would gradually and symmetrically roll-off the volume of those speakers by 12db at 40Hz.

But, if you are boosting all of the channels by 6db at 40Hz, you are adding back 6db at that specific frequency. Now the speakers, which were getting softer from 80Hz down, are suddenly louder again, and a 6db increase in volume at 40Hz could make enough difference to be audible. That would especially be the case if you were able to compare that sound to a completely different approach, such as the application of a house curve added only to the subwoofers.

Frankly, I think that some speakers might distort a bit if they were playing 40Hz frequencies only 6db lower than they were having to play 80Hz frequencies, and the muddled sound could be that distortion. Of course, that would depend somewhat on the master volume level and the native content. The louder the volume level, the more potential distortion. (There can also be some potential phase issues involved when speakers and subs--particularly ported subs--play the same frequencies.)

Low-frequency distortion tends to sound somewhat boomy or unclear, unlike high-frequency distortion which sounds screechy or piercing. A somewhat unclear or cluttered bass sound could be a pretty good description of low-frequency distortion. Boosting channels by 6db at 40Hz could actually be considered somewhat counterproductive to setting 80Hz crossovers for those channels in the first place.

I don't want anyone who is currently enjoying that feature to suddenly become self-conscious about it because of my post. But, it occurs to me that since Anthem seems to be pretty cutting-edge with their updates, it might be worthwhile for some owners to contact them about allowing users to choose whether or not to apply the Deep Bass Boost to all of the channels, as opposed to applying it only to the subwoofers. Or, ARC could just let that feature affect only the subwoofers, by default. That would be an even better solution.

I hope that no one minds me commenting on this.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

Welcome to this thread and as usual your opinions are welcome and helpful. It's funny how I learn, forget and have to re-learn. I know better than my comment to Legairre would suggest. Of course, the crossover is not a brick wall. Thanks for the reminder.
My temporary ignorance still doesn't change the experience I've been having. I've struggled for the last year with my 4 sealed subwoofers and ARC2. Many, many times I'd tell my long-suffering wife that this is now perfect, only to wake up the next day dissatisfied. You, Mike, provided essential advice to me during this period. However, with ARC Genesis, my experience has been completely different. From the first, I was startled at the difference in the clarity of the bass. With ARC2, I was always adjusting the bass in a 10 db range according to the material.
Male voices, in particular, represented a challenge. With the most recent Genesis calibration, before which I fixed various issues I mentioned a few posts ago, I finally feel I have achieved what I've been looking for. With a deep bass boost of 6 starting at 40hz, I have only had to change to a profile with no bass boost once. Other than that one instance, my bass is powerful and clear in my large room with 4 SB16Ultras. I cannot hear any muddiness or boominess. I can't explain why I'm hearing what I am, only that I am.
Is it possible that some of the differences in what we're hearing is that I have sealed subs and perhaps, those with ported are getting more muddiness at 40hz? After all, I think ported are 3 db louder at 40hz and 6 db louder at 32hz. So, for ported, the deep bass boost would be that much louder than for my sealed. Just a thought.
Before Genesis, I had been following various processor threads considering changing to Dirac because of the frequent indistinctness of dialogue, always with male voices. Genesis has eliminated that problem in my system.
I don't have a minidsp in my home theater for comparison purposes. I would probably try it just to contribute to the team, but for my purposes, my relatively long search and struggle is over.
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Last edited by WLC; 07-09-2019 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Clarification
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post #345 of 790 Old 07-09-2019, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Critical Audio Error

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Originally Posted by adiraval View Post
Hello, I am getting a critical audio error message with the latest version of ARC Genesis on both my Mac and my PC for my Anthem MRX 720. Anybody figure out how to solve this issue?
I've frequently had this problem with my AVM60. I've just had to re-start the computer, sometimes multiple times. Once re-starting didn't work. Had to turn it off completely before re-starting.
Hope your problem is so easily, although aggravatingly, resolved.
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post #346 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Mic positions

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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Although I don't have ARC, I believe that I can share some insight into a few of your questions. First, the reason that it can be helpful to cover your seatback with a thick towel or blanket is because the omnidirectional measurement microphone doesn't "hear" high-frequency sounds in the same way our ears do. If the mic gets too close to a hard surface, high-frequency sound waves bouncing from that surface into the microphone, at such close range, will cause a comb-filtering effect, and the EQ program may try to overcorrect those high-frequencies. That can result in a somewhat screechy sound at times. But, as noted by another Mike, it's a YMMV issue that you can test both ways.

If you do put something over the seatback, getting within 4 or 5" of the seatback should be no problem. As a general rule, it is better to measure close to where your ears are. But, if you don't cover the seatback with something, moving the mic further away from the seatback will probably help with higher frequencies.

I can't see any advantage to measuring behind your seat unless you are trying to EQ for a second row of seating. Even then, most people seem to get better results by limiting the measurement area. These different measurement systems all use their own systems of fuzzy logic weighting to average the measurements from the various mic positions. Anomalous results, such as those from behind your listening position where no one is actually sitting, can potentially skew the results in an unhelpful way. That is especially the case if there is a wall or other hard surface behind your listening position, for the reasons explained in the first paragraph.

Again, speaking generally, I would do most of my measurements close to ear height. We do move our heads around a bit during movie watching or music listening, so giving the EQ algorithm some information about the area slightly above ear height seems to work well. From long experience with Audyssey, measuring just a couple of positions a few inches higher than ear level works well for many people. But, this is another YMMV issue that you can test for yourself. Personally, I probably wouldn't measure more than a few inches (3-4") above ear height unless empirical experimentation in my room demonstrated the value of doing that.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
I cover my theater chairs with heavy comforters and have them in the fully extended position. I have tried many mic positions and finally decided on 4.5' from where our heads are as the best for position 1. This position is at the front of the armrests, equidistant from the two reclined heads. This position allows an x pattern without getting too close to the back of the chairs. The many calibrations did not seem to make too much difference to the other 7 speakers, but enormous differences with the subs. I think this makes sense because we all know that moving a sub even a short distance can make a big difference. In addition, setting the speaker distances from position one rather than where our heads actually are resulted in a tighter, more cohesive sound stage. I ran all positions a couple of inches over ear height so as to be over the back of the chairs. I also believe it is important to do the sub gain adjustment and level matching with the mic in position 1.
Correct placement is certainly room dependent.
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post #347 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 05:41 AM
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I found using no deep bass boost gives me the best overall sound. Since I already use a minidsp for BEQ, I use that to produce a house curve that only affects the subs. I'm surprised Athem doesn't realize deep bass control should really only affect the sub channel or at least give us the option to control which channels deep bass boost affects.

Also, I wish Genesis had one or two available PEQ's to play with.
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post #348 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adiraval View Post
Hello, I am getting a critical audio error message with the latest version of ARC Genesis on both my Mac and my PC for my Anthem MRX 720. Anybody figure out how to solve this issue?
Are you running the most recent version? 1.1.0.9006, not the beta.

Are you able to download the mic correction file?

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post #349 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 10:44 AM
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A few weeks ago, I posted my concerns about ARC Genesis and how it relates to room symmetry, in regard to both the mic placement advice and the resultant speaker levels. In my first ARC Genesis run, I followed Anthem’s advice and used 5 mic positions in a tight X pattern centered around my chair, with the 1st position on my chair. Since my chair is left of the centerline of the room, this resulted in the level of all of the speakers on the left side of the room being set 2 dB lower than the speakers on the right side of the room. While this meant that all speakers would have the same SPL at my chair, it also meant that the levels at my wife’s chair on the right side of the room would be way off with the right speakers louder than the left speakers. This was obviously not right, and so I adjusted the levels to make them symmetrical with respect to speakers on the left and right side of the room. That was my first concern. The other concern I expressed was that while the tight pattern around my chair would optimize ARC for my chair, there might be a better compromise for the other seating areas, including my wife’s chair and the seats on the 2nd row sofa. Was there a problem using ARC Genesis to characterize a larger seating area? With ARC 2 I typically would run a pattern that took in the whole seating area, but because the 1st mic position was typically at my chair, and that was used to set the levels, I did have to balance the left/right levels after calibration then as well.

I wrote Anthem tech support for advice and they replied that there was no issue in using ARC Genesis to characterize a larger seating area, and the tech suggested that with Genesis the level settings might use more than the 1st mic position to set levels, although that position might be more heavily weighted.

I have now done 2 more measurement runs, the 1st with used 7 mic positions to cover the 2 front row chairs and the 3 seats on the sofa. I kept the placement of the mic positions symmetrical in the room. The next measurement set were 6 mic positions in a symmetrical pattern around only the 2 front chairs, again with the mic positions symmetrical in the room.

After these measurements, the resultant left/right bias was now only 1 dB, where when all measurements were at or around the left chair only, that bias for the left vs right front and surrounds speakers was 2 dB. Although 1 dB is likely within the error limits of the measurement process, my SPL meter suggested a slight level mismatch, so I have made the final level settings symmetrical with a 1 dB change to balance the level settings and SPL measured levels on the centerline of the room between our 2 chairs. That might suggest that the 1st measurement position is still slightly favored in the weighting with ARC Genesis.

At my chair the profiles based on the measurements (front row only vs all seats) both sound good, but the back row seemed to benefit from including measurements there. I have now set up different inputs with different profiles for when it is just the two of us watching TV or a movie, vs when we have people over and the back row is used. It seems that ARC Genesis is a clearly superior product to ARC 2 in terms of flexibility and results.

Thanks very much to Anthem for giving my AVM 60 a new life, not that it was any way close to dead. It is just better sounding now. And it is so nice to run ARC Genesis on my Mac!

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post #350 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I found using no deep bass boost gives me the best overall sound. Since I already use a minidsp for BEQ, I use that to produce a house curve that only affects the subs. I'm surprised Athem doesn't realize deep bass control should really only affect the sub channel or at least give us the option to control which channels deep bass boost affects.

Also, I wish Genesis had one or two available PEQ's to play with.
Same here I use a miniDSP 2x4 HD for my house curve because too me things just didn't sound right when using the bass boost. I'm with you I wish Anthem would give us a checkbox or something so we can select to use use bass boost as sub only or all speakers.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
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post #351 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 12:07 PM
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My theater's sound has never been as good as it is now thanks to this thread and Legairre in particular. The more I experiment and learn, the better use I'm getting from Genesis and the minidsp.

Thanks to everyone here!!
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post #352 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 12:57 PM
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Ran ARC Genesis for the first time today using my MacBook Pro and I'm very impressed with the results. Genesis sound much more dynamic, almost 3D like and I can hear more subtle details from my L/R speakers. I'm currently in the process of redoing my system and running a L/C/R setup of Focal Aria 936 towers that output a surprising amount of bass. I plan to add 2 SVS SB-3000 subs in a couple of months and currently researching in-celing surrounds. Anyway, I have attached my first Genesis run and wanted to see if there's anything that needs to be adjusted? Thanks in advance.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ARC Genesis 7:10:19.pdf (201.8 KB, 19 views)

Panasonic P60VT60 Calibrated by Chad B
Anthem MRX-720, Oppo UDP-205, Bluesound Node 2i, Focal Aria 936/CC900
MacBook Pro, AppleTV 3 & 4K, Sony PS4 Pro

Last edited by mbroadus; 07-10-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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post #353 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Same here I use a miniDSP 2x4 HD for my house curve because too me things just didn't sound right when using the bass boost. I'm with you I wish Anthem would give us a checkbox or something so we can select to use use bass boost as sub only or all speakers.
Did you download the new Genesis version? Any value to it?

It appears to be designed select issues for select components or problems, none of which I have.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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post #354 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 05:33 PM
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Question Auto-Detect Mysteries

I asked this question in another thread, with no answer. I thought I'd try here before kicking it back to Anthem.

When adjusting targets in ARC Genesis, I see two options to get back default values: (a) "Auto-Detect (System-Wide Target and All Channels)" and (b) "Auto-Detect (System-Wide Target)". Why are there two? When I asked Anthem tech support, they said that "Your crossover points, roll off, as well as the levels of all of your channels are all factors in using [method (b)]. These factors are ignored using [method (a)]."

I just don't understand that answer. Since crossover points, etc., are determined by ARC, why would ARC ignore them in any case? Why would a user ever want to ignore them? In what way do the names of the options correspond to Anthem's explanation? Also, why does Room Gain (and apparently only Room Gain) change between (a) and (b)? I am using Genesis 1.1 on an STR Preamp in a 2.2 system.

Does anyone here understand this? If so, could you give a practical explanation, of the intended purposes of (a) and (b) and when to use each option?

THANK YOU

Mike (Portland, Oregon -- no longer in North Carolina)

Main 2.2 system: Auralic Aries G1 streamer, Anthem STR preamp, Bryston 4B3 amp, Janszen Valentina mains, 2x JL Audio F112 subs. Desktop 2.1 system: JRiver Media Center, Classé CP-800 DAC-preamp, Marsh A400s amp, Harbeth P3ESR, B&W ASW610.
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post #355 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
I asked this question in another thread, with no answer. I thought I'd try here before kicking it back to Anthem.

When adjusting targets in ARC Genesis, I see two options to get back default values: (a) "Auto-Detect (System-Wide Target and All Channels)" and (b) "Auto-Detect (System-Wide Target)". Why are there two? When I asked Anthem tech support, they said that "Your crossover points, roll off, as well as the levels of all of your channels are all factors in using [method (b)]. These factors are ignored using [method (a)]."

I just don't understand that answer. Since crossover points, etc., are determined by ARC, why would ARC ignore them in any case? Why would a user ever want to ignore them? In what way do the names of the options correspond to Anthem's explanation? Also, why does Room Gain (and apparently only Room Gain) change between (a) and (b)? I am using Genesis 1.1 on an STR Preamp in a 2.2 system.

Does anyone here understand this? If so, could you give a practical explanation, of the intended purposes of (a) and (b) and when to use each option?

THANK YOU
"System Wide Targets" are settings applied across all channels. They are broad strokes type settings like room gain, bass boost, and tilt. They're very much like old school tone controls. The "All Channel" settings are those things you apply to each individual channel, such as crossovers, EQ windows, and channel trims.

It's a big advantage to be able to play with room gain, bass boost, and tilt with the option to simply reset those values without having to redo all the individual speaker tweaks.
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post #356 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 06:06 PM
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I bought the argument that bass boost may muddy the sound by boosting the low frequencies sent to the “small” speakers in the system, causing distortion at higher listening levels. But most people also prefer a room curve with some boosting of the bass relative to a flat response. So, what to do? Does the room gain not do the same thing?

I figured that if I built that bass boost into my Velodyne subs using their PEQ, ARC will try to flatten that response if bass boost is set to 0. So, it seems, that ideally one would build the bass boost using PEQ in the sub or mini DSP and then choose a bass boost in ARC Genesis to match. After wasting a lot of time experimenting with the Velodyne PEQ and greatly over doing it, I found that my previous runs with the Velodyne subs in Movie mode, had just the right amount of bass boost already, and with my ARC 3 dB boost at 40 Hz it was a pretty good match. The key to understanding this is the ARC Genesis Curve Viewer where you can view the ARC Genesis correction curves calculated for the various speakers. In my case, the ARC curve for the sub had only negative corrections, and there were no corrections to any other speaker significantly below their crossover frequencies when I used the ARC Genesis recommended crossover values. This is not the case if you cheat on the crossovers!

SONY VPL-VW385ES, Da-Lite 92" 0.9 HD progressive 16x9 screen, Apple TV 4K, HDFury Integral 2, Oppo UDP 203, Panasonic DP-UB820, Anthem AVM 60, D-Sonic 4000 (800x3, 400x4) for bed layer, 2 Crown XLS 1002 (225x4) for Atmos; Speakers: Polk LSiM 705s, 703 front, 4 702F/X surround, 4 Polk TL3 (Atmos), Dual Velodyne DD15 Subwoofers.
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post #357 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
I bought the argument that bass boost may muddy the sound by boosting the low frequencies sent to the “small” speakers in the system, causing distortion at higher listening levels. But most people also prefer a room curve with some boosting of the bass relative to a flat response. So, what to do? Does the room gain not do the same thing?

I figured that if I built that bass boost into my Velodyne subs using their PEQ, ARC will try to flatten that response if bass boost is set to 0. So, it seems, that ideally one would build the bass boost using PEQ in the sub or mini DSP and then choose a bass boost in ARC Genesis to match. After wasting a lot of time experimenting with the Velodyne PEQ and greatly over doing it, I found that my previous runs with the Velodyne subs in Movie mode, had just the right amount of bass boost already, and with my ARC 3 dB boost at 40 Hz it was a pretty good match. The key to understanding this is the ARC Genesis Curve Viewer where you can view the ARC Genesis correction curves calculated for the various speakers. In my case, the ARC curve for the sub had only negative corrections, and there were no corrections to any other speaker significantly below their crossover frequencies when I used the ARC Genesis recommended crossover values. This is not the case if you cheat on the crossovers!
The difference is that room gain has a range of 150-300Hz while Bass Boost has a range of 20-80Hz so the Bass Boost is effecting the speakers at low to mid bass while room gain is just effecting the speakers at high bass. I only noticed the muddied sound of Bass Boost at high volume levels while at TV watching levels it wasn't muddied.


With my miniDSP I run Genesis first with the miniDSP filters all flat so that the miniDSP is out of the equation and then use the miniDSP to build my house curve after running Genesis. If I was to use the miniDSP before Genesis then Genesis would just flatten my house curve.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
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post #358 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by WLC View Post
I've frequently had this problem with my AVM60. I've just had to re-start the computer, sometimes multiple times. Once re-starting didn't work. Had to turn it off completely before re-starting.
Hope your problem is so easily, although aggravatingly, resolved.
I have found that when this happens, the software is "losing" the mic. Reestablishing contact with the mic by selecting it again will then let you pick back up with running the sweep where you left off. This worked for me using a mac, and Anthem 710 with all versions of the latest Genesis release
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post #359 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by howsbayou View Post
I have found that when this happens, the software is "losing" the mic. Reestablishing contact with the mic by selecting it again will then let you pick back up with running the sweep where you left off. This worked for me using a mac, and Anthem 710 with all versions of the latest Genesis release
Thanks for this information.
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post #360 of 790 Old 07-10-2019, 09:25 PM
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I had the USB cable disconnect from the mic when moving between locations earlier today and got the critical error message mid calibration. Inserting it back in the mic didn't resolve the issue, but pulling the USB from my laptop and reinserting it did.

SONY VPL-VW385ES, Da-Lite 92" 0.9 HD progressive 16x9 screen, Apple TV 4K, HDFury Integral 2, Oppo UDP 203, Panasonic DP-UB820, Anthem AVM 60, D-Sonic 4000 (800x3, 400x4) for bed layer, 2 Crown XLS 1002 (225x4) for Atmos; Speakers: Polk LSiM 705s, 703 front, 4 702F/X surround, 4 Polk TL3 (Atmos), Dual Velodyne DD15 Subwoofers.
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