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-   -   Dedicated ARC Genesis thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3068892-dedicated-arc-genesis-thread.html)

Bghead8che 09-23-2019 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod (Post 58596778)
Or, it might be a way to avoid setting any of your speaker or subwoofer settings to +12 or -12. I got the same Dolby offset setting as you.

By adjusting the offset, it's getting a general "average" of your speaker levels to be around 0, so the variance is within the AVM60's level setting range. At +12, people were wondering if it should have been +15 or higher, but it didn't go that high so it couldn't. They were probably right.

Now with the offset at -12 dB, our speakers are all essentially set to 62-63 dB as the standard, but are all within range of each other. We just adjust the master volume higher as a result. Before it was changing the offset like this, I was getting decent levels (+3 to +10), while others were getting a lot of +12. The result was the volume was way too high, and I was having to listen around -32 on the main volume. Now I'm listening around -18 to -25, depending on source and mixing.

What I do know is that it sounds great, far better than ARC2 before it.

Got it. So it sounds like they purposely adjusted the way ARC sets levels but using the offset more aggressively. You concur?

Erod 09-23-2019 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bghead8che (Post 58596854)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod (Post 58596778)
Or, it might be a way to avoid setting any of your speaker or subwoofer settings to +12 or -12. I got the same Dolby offset setting as you.

By adjusting the offset, it's getting a general "average" of your speaker levels to be around 0, so the variance is within the AVM60's level setting range. At +12, people were wondering if it should have been +15 or higher, but it didn't go that high so it couldn't. They were probably right.

Now with the offset at -12 dB, our speakers are all essentially set to 62-63 dB as the standard, but are all within range of each other. We just adjust the master volume higher as a result. Before it was changing the offset like this, I was getting decent levels (+3 to +10), while others were getting a lot of +12. The result was the volume was way too high, and I was having to listen around -32 on the main volume. Now I'm listening around -18 to -25, depending on source and mixing.

What I do know is that it sounds great, far better than ARC2 before it.

Got it. So it sounds like they purposely adjusted the way ARC sets levels but using the offset more aggressively. You concur?

Yes. It's odd, but that's what they're doing it seems.

johnnygrandis 09-23-2019 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bghead8che (Post 58596688)
You will want to measure with everything the exact same as when you listen to your HT.

The minidsp 88A with Dirac gives me better response when the seats where reclined.

I Did the Genesis with the seats down and I have excelent result. Better channel separation, better Dialog, easy to listen @Higher SPL without getting tired. The bass is about the same as ARC2 gives me but easier to dial in a in-house response.

Thumbs up for Genesis here!

Will give it a try with seats up soon.

Wayne Z 09-29-2019 01:31 PM

Anthem Remote Control App
 
I realize this is not quite on topic, but I have found that the Anthem remote control app will not start on Apple iOs 13.1.1. Has anyone else had this problem? I have updated all my iPhone and iPad apps since installing iOs 131.1, so I don't think that is the problem.

Steve Dodds 09-30-2019 05:37 AM

I have a question about Genesis bass management.

If you choose Send Bass To Subs, your main speakers will roll off at 12 dB.

If you choose, say 4th order they will roll off at 24dB, but no bass is sent to the sub when you upload. And when you check Bass Management, the crossovers are indeed set to Off.

However, you can manually set them to whatever you like in the receiver.

Does anyone know if that crossover slope is the default 12 dB octave, or the 24dB you have set in Genesis?

If the former, does it cascade with the 24dB you have set so in effect you get a 36db slope?

BGLeduc 09-30-2019 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Z (Post 58622478)
I realize this is not quite on topic, but I have found that the Anthem remote control app will not start on Apple iOs 13.1.1. Has anyone else had this problem? I have updated all my iPhone and iPad apps since installing iOs 131.1, so I don't think that is the problem.

Yes...I commented on it up thread or perhaps one of the other Anthem threads. It started with 13.0.

I did report it to Anthem, but no reply yet.

scanido 10-01-2019 09:04 AM

Glad i found this dedicated thread for Genessis.

After calibration, I am wondering how much room gain to set? Is there a way to determine this value? This appears to affect the Sub levels which come out hot over all channels by at least 5-6db.

rorosone 10-03-2019 10:10 AM

Need your help
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wyld0 (Post 58531350)
I have sent another detailed email to support with detail descriptions and graph comparisons. I hope they fix Genesis. I tried ARC2 and got vastly different results with much lower trims but also much less filters. Oddly ARC2 set my front speakers to -5 where Genesis sets them to +12. Can't I get something in between?

Edit: I'm hoping others will also call or email Anthem support and report your experiences with the latest ARC Genesis so that hopefully we can get an update that finally fixes everything and gives perfect sound for everyone!


Hi Dears,
I recently acquired the STR preamp and ran a couple of calibrations: Both of them are roughly identical. I have a couple of comments that are quite identical to yours:
1) Before running the first calibration the volume indication which 35 by default was giving me a "normal" listening SPL of 75dB about (measured by my cell phone which has been verified against REW + UMIK).
2) During the calibration phase, the sound rose up and became very high in my opinion.
3) I have 2 MG12 + 2 subs and their "speaker level" have been all of them increased to +12dB, so when playing a record, I have to go down with the volume. That's fine but I remarked thjat +12dB is the maximum possible correction in "adjust ARC settings " "Set Speaker Level" and so there is no room left for any manual adjustments.
4) I made some comparison measurements by using REW+UMIK at the sweet spot and found very curious results that I would like to share with you. For instance without ARC I had a big "hole" at 70Hz and with ARC I have this "hole" but at 80Hz...
5) As per my previous calibration experience, I think I have the answer: Is that possible to perform 2 (for instance) calibration at different sound level? I don't think so since the STR is adjusting the level itself.
6) Globally the sound is better with ARC than without, but something is missing and unfortunately my ears are not good enough to determine the issue.



Thanks a lot in advance for your help,
Rodolphe

knmlee 10-03-2019 11:26 PM

Hello,

I helped my friend setup his new MRX 720 tonight. I have the MRX 1120, so have some experience with ARC Genesis, but still pretty much a newbie.

The first run with Genesis was done with the Dolby offset at the default value of 0. All speaker / sub levels came out to +12 and the overall target volume was at about 75. I had the same experience with my 1120 and after reading this thread tried the suggestion of setting the Dolby offset to -12 before running the calibration. That worked on my 1120 but did not on my friends 720. After setting his Dolby offset to -12 and re-running the calibration, we still ended up with all speakers / subs set to +12.

The only thing I can think of that might be different is that I did not update his firmware to the latest version and I did on my 1120. Could that be the problem? Or is there something else that I should try?

I changed the levels of his speakers back to a more normal range (4 - 9) by ear and the results sounded pretty good, but I can’t figure out what is going wrong.

One other difference between our setups is that my friend is powering his front 3 with an external amp and I am using the amps in my 1120.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions...

Marine121 10-04-2019 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Z (Post 58622478)
I realize this is not quite on topic, but I have found that the Anthem remote control app will not start on Apple iOs 13.1.1. Has anyone else had this problem? I have updated all my iPhone and iPad apps since installing iOs 131.1, so I don't think that is the problem.

I'm still experiencing this problem. Anyone got an update from anthem?

rorosone 10-04-2019 04:24 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Hi Dears,

I am also using an external power amplifier. However my worries are about the fact that their no more room for any further adjustment, Please look at the 2 screenshots: "Set Speaker Level" is before I reduced the gain from +12dB to zero and "Adjust targets" is to highlight my worries: The target is much higher than the speaker curves... What will happen then?
Thanks,

BGLeduc 10-04-2019 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine121 (Post 58641910)
I'm still experiencing this problem. Anyone got an update from anthem?

I did get a reply that they were aware of the issue and looking into it, but no ETA for a fix.

rorosone 10-04-2019 05:36 AM

Thanks BGLeduc,
So I will keep me confident in the automatic mode and wait for their new release.
Did you get the chance to look at my enclosed pdf that I posted first time, I have a strange "hole" at 80Hz.

80Hz is just the crossover frequency between my fronts and the subs... Phase issues?
Thanks,

johnnygrandis 10-04-2019 02:12 PM

After living with Genesis the only thing that I regret is not taking the Jump from ARC2 before. Fantastic performance and the tweaking possibilitis are endless. The seamless sound is stepping up to next level and when playing really loud it still feels calm and relaxed. I have made a house curve in boths end adjusting the tilt and it feels natural and ear friendly without being soft. Before I have used Dirac for a couple of years and thought is has the leading edge but after Genesis I must say it is just as good. Big thumbs up and very happy with my AVM60

Got about a 5db lift from 45 and it works great.

https://u.cubeupload.com/authentic/Lift.png


This is the subwoofer x-over tweak wich gave me a big jump in performance @80hz, big dip with wide Q and the subs ends 2.4m delay in the prosessor.

https://u.cubeupload.com/authentic/7...2831963721.jpg


https://u.cubeupload.com/authentic/17.jpg

knmlee 10-04-2019 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knmlee (Post 58641774)
Hello,

I helped my friend setup his new MRX 720 tonight. I have the MRX 1120, so have some experience with ARC Genesis, but still pretty much a newbie.

The first run with Genesis was done with the Dolby offset at the default value of 0. All speaker / sub levels came out to +12 and the overall target volume was at about 75. I had the same experience with my 1120 and after reading this thread tried the suggestion of setting the Dolby offset to -12 before running the calibration. That worked on my 1120 but did not on my friends 720. After setting his Dolby offset to -12 and re-running the calibration, we still ended up with all speakers / subs set to +12.

The only thing I can think of that might be different is that I did not update his firmware to the latest version and I did on my 1120. Could that be the problem? Or is there something else that I should try?

I changed the levels of his speakers back to a more normal range (4 - 9) by ear and the results sounded pretty good, but I can’t figure out what is going wrong.

One other difference between our setups is that my friend is powering his front 3 with an external amp and I am using the amps in my 1120.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions...


Today, we updated the firmware, did a reset and ran ARC again. Same result. Target level set to 75 but all speakers measuring around 57 to 60 which results in levels of +12 all around. Called Anthem support and was told this is normal and there is no way to change the target level and that I should manually measure each speaker and adjust levels using their relative levels (which I did). Then checked the last run I did on my 1120 and saw that my target level was set to 62 instead of 75, which explains why my levels were not all maxed out to +12. This seems weird. Why would Anthem tell me there is no way to change the target level from 75 yet I'm seeing a target level of 62 on my 1120. My friend is pretty frustrated and thinking about returning his 720. The Anthem guy did hint that they were working on a fix for this that evidently will revert to the way things worked with ARC 2 (where ARC would automatically change the system target). He couldn't give me a date, however.

Any ideas what is going on here? Thanks in advance

Marine121 10-07-2019 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGLeduc (Post 58642182)
I did get a reply that they were aware of the issue and looking into it, but no ETA for a fix.

Oh ok thank you so much. Hope we get an update from them soon.

Marine121 10-07-2019 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnygrandis (Post 58644394)
After living with Genesis the only thing that I regret is not taking the Jump from ARC2 before. Fantastic performance and the tweaking possibilitis are endless. The seamless sound is stepping up to next level and when playing really loud it still feels calm and relaxed. I have made a house curve in boths end adjusting the tilt and it feels natural and ear friendly without being soft. Before I have used Dirac for a couple of years and thought is has the leading edge but after Genesis I must say it is just as good. Big thumbs up and very happy with my AVM60

Glad to hear you have a perfect setup now. Setting our sound system's struggle is real LOL.

pn56Matt 10-07-2019 09:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Everyone,


I just did a search and found this forum. I have been following the Anthem 60, 720, and 1120 Receivers and didn't realize there was a dedicated thread to ARC Genesis.



I recently purchased a matching Rythmik Subwoofer, and finally upgraded to Genesis. My FW is up to date and I recalibrated using ARC Genesis. I am wondering about some of the areas I have the freedom to adjust. I don’t understand what affect each have, and could use advice on whether or not I should change any of the following from the corrected settings.

Target Settings:
Deep Bass Boost – 0db.


Speakers:
Maximum Correction Frequency. Back when I was using ARC, it was capped at 5k. However, I believe a few months before Genesis was released one of the regular AVS commenters (I think Bob P) told someone to raise it up to 20k. I remember changing mine in the settings, but it always reverted back to 5k.

Subwoofers – Genesis originally had my subs cut off at 130Hz and 170Hz. I have read in the Rythmik forum that this is common. There are Rythmik owners that have them set at 120Hz. I think some have even tried higher.
High Pass Requency: 30-31Hz
Minimum Correction Frequency: 15Hz

Overall Level Settings
I also noticed that my speakers’ level settings were set really high near the max of +10db and the subs are at +1. I have both subs at 12 O’Clock (roughly 50%) volume to match. I originally had them 2 ticks above 50%, but ARC informed me they were too high. I tried -1 tick first, followed by another and ARC accepted the setting. I used all the recommended settings from Rythmik with the switches/knobs on the back.

I’ll be using a miniDSP and UMIK to get the best integration out of my dual subs. I’m really new with REW and don’t fully understand how I can use my built in PEQ on the subs, but I’ll be posting on the Rythmik forum. I am also a little confused on if I need to connect to the MRX receiver since I can’t control anything through it. I’m guessing I’ll only connect my computer to the UMIK and miniDSP, and only be able to set filters on the subs.

I appreciate any suggestions and advice, as I am such a novice in all the above areas. I have nice equipment that I thoroughly enjoy, but don’t know how to get the “best” out of it, and am not close enough to a A/V store I’d trust to help me in these areas.

johnnygrandis 10-07-2019 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine121 (Post 58653640)
Glad to hear you have a perfect setup now. Setting our sound system's struggle is real LOL.

Well thank you, I had my share of problem so its great to finally get it tune in the way I want.

Bluecow003 10-15-2019 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Z (Post 58622478)
I realize this is not quite on topic, but I have found that the Anthem remote control app will not start on Apple iOs 13.1.1. Has anyone else had this problem? I have updated all my iPhone and iPad apps since installing iOs 131.1, so I don't think that is the problem.


My phone stupidly updated to iOS 13 when I plugged my phone in one night even though I didn't want it to update, so now Anthem's app doesn't work on my phone either. Since my Anthem processor is out of sight in my room the app was my primary way of controlling it. I really hope this gets fixed soon.

saxguy 10-16-2019 07:14 PM

I am using the Mac version of ARC Genesis with my Anthem STR Integrated. I am no longer in a dedicated room and have no choice but to have my couch up against the rear wall. The ARC instructions say to take measurements no closer than 2 feet from the rear wall. I assume that my first three positions would be 2 feet from the rear wall at the listening position and two feet from the rear wall to the left and right of the seating position, as this would put my position 1 pretty much as close to where I would be at the main position.

My question has to do with the next two positions. The illustration for mic placement within the ARC Genesis software is recommending using points behind positions two and three which, in my room, are already two feet from the rear wall if using what I assume to be the correct placement for the first three measurements. Should I measure in front of the #2 and #3 positions, or should I start with the first three positions three feet from the rear wall (including the listening position) and then use the two feet from the rear wall for the #4 and #5 positions?

Legairre 10-17-2019 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxguy (Post 58694302)
I am using the Mac version of ARC Genesis with my Anthem STR Integrated. I am no longer in a dedicated room and have no choice but to have my couch up against the rear wall. The ARC instructions say to take measurements no closer than 2 feet from the rear wall. I assume that my first three positions would be 2 feet from the rear wall at the listening position and two feet from the rear wall to the left and right of the seating position, as this would put my position 1 pretty much as close to where I would be at the main position.

My question has to do with the next two positions. The illustration for mic placement within the ARC Genesis software is recommending using points behind positions two and three which, in my room, are already two feet from the rear wall if using what I assume to be the correct placement for the first three measurements. Should I measure in front of the #2 and #3 positions, or should I start with the first three positions three feet from the rear wall (including the listening position) and then use the two feet from the rear wall for the #4 and #5 positions?

It’s more important to keep all mic positions the required distance from position 1 than it is to keep the mic from the wall. I would place mic position 4 behind position 2, and mic position 5 behind 3. Make sure all mic positions are no more than 2-3 feet from position 1 (making an X pattern with position 1 in the center of the X).


From Anthem's Genesis user Guide (https://www.anthemarc.com/arc-genesis/users-guide.php):
Quote:

WHENEVER POSSIBLE, make sure the primary listening position is a minimum of two to three feet (60 to 90 cm) from walls and other large hard surfaces. Please note:
    • We understand that the location of the primary listening position is often not flexible.
    • For best results when listening, a listener’s ears should be away from any walls a minimum distance of two to three feet (60 to 90cm).
    • If the 1st mic position falls within two to three feet (60 to 90cm) form a wall, high-backed furniture, or similar obstructions, it’s important to measure from a position as close to the listener's head as possible. So place the first mic position just in front of where the listener’s head would be. In this case, always place the 2nd through 5th positions the recommended distance from each other, even if this results in them being less than two to three feet (60 to 90cm) away from a wall. The resulting pattern may look less like an X and more like a V or M, and that’s okay.


Bill-99 10-17-2019 02:38 PM

Sag from about 4K Hz to 18K Hz?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hoping people on this thread can spare a bit of brain power. My brain is tapped out at the moment.

A piece of an ARC Genesis report is attached showing the sag mentioned in the title of this post. Not sure what's going on there. I went back to my ARC-2 reports and it's there as well. That seems to imply that there's something going on in the room that I don't understand.

This 5.1.0 home theater is in a carpeted family room that's 23' x 14.5' x 9'. It uses acoustic treatment from GIK: 4 x Tri-Traps and 2 x 244 Bass Traps. The family room flows into a kitchen in a big "L" shape with no wall or ceiling divider between the rooms. The kitchen has tile floors and quartz countertops.

MaxEQ is 5K. Mic positions form a 2' circle around the MLP in a big "X" with the center at ear level, the two in front 6" lower and the two in back 6" higher. Crossover is 80 Hz and the graphs for the L/C/R/SL/SR look very similar.

From a practical view, the system sounds very good but after seeing this in the report it made me wonder if I'm leaving performance on the table.

Thoughts? Advice?

Bill-99 10-17-2019 03:38 PM

^Oops. Should have mentioned the hardware.

Anthem AVM 60 processor
Anthem A5 amp
Revel F208 L/R, C208 center, M106 SL/SR
Velodyne FSR-12 sub

The Spinorama data for the Revels looks pretty flat compared to the ARC Genesis report.

Legairre 10-17-2019 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill-99 (Post 58697594)
Hoping people on this thread can spare a bit of brain power. My brain is tapped out at the moment.

A piece of an ARC Genesis report is attached showing the sag mentioned in the title of this post. Not sure what's going on there. I went back to my ARC-2 reports and it's there as well. That seems to imply that there's something going on in the room that I don't understand.

This 5.1.0 home theater is in a carpeted family room that's 23' x 14.5' x 9'. It uses acoustic treatment from GIK: 4 x Tri-Traps and 2 x 244 Bass Traps. The family room flows into a kitchen in a big "L" shape with no wall or ceiling divider between the rooms. The kitchen has tile floors and quartz countertops.

MaxEQ is 5K. Mic positions form a 2' circle around the MLP in a big "X" with the center at ear level, the two in front 6" lower and the two in back 6" higher. Crossover is 80 Hz and the graphs for the L/C/R/SL/SR look very similar.

From a practical view, the system sounds very good but after seeing this in the report it made me wonder if I'm leaving performance on the table.

Thoughts? Advice?

I run a 7.2.4 system and with Genesis and ARC2 and all 7 of my ear level speakers roll off at 5k while my 4 ceiling mounted height speakers all roll off at 18k. My 7 speaker graphs look similar to yours. My MaxEQ is 5k and in my room the roll off is just the natural roll off due to my room. I've played around with the MaxEQ to make them roll off at say 10,15 and even 20k, but at 20k things get very bright. I like it better with the MaxEQ at 5k. Try playing around with the MaxEQ ,but I'm sure you already know that the mic is unreliable over 5k so its really just try it and see if you like it.

Many others follow the Schroder theory and set the MaxEQ no higher than 200Hz and don't EQ any higher. Too me setting the MaxEQ to 200 Hz made my system pretty lifeless. Many like it I just don't prefer it that low so I stick with Anthem's 5k default.

Bill-99 10-18-2019 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58697856)
I run a 7.2.4 system and with Genesis and ARC2 and all 7 of my ear level speakers roll off at 5k while my 4 ceiling mounted height speakers all roll off at 18k. My 7 speaker graphs look similar to yours. My MaxEQ is 5k and in my room the roll off is just the natural roll off due to my room. I've played around with the MaxEQ to make them roll off at say 10,15 and even 20k, but at 20k things get very bright. I like it better with the MaxEQ at 5k. Try playing around with the MaxEQ ,but I'm sure you already know that the mic is unreliable over 5k so its really just try it and see if you like it.

Many others follow the Schroder theory and set the MaxEQ no higher than 200Hz and don't EQ any higher. Too me setting the MaxEQ to 200 Hz made my system pretty lifeless. Many like it I just don't prefer it that low so I stick with Anthem's 5k default.

Thanks, Legairre. I'm probably worrying about nothing and should just leave things as-is. Perhaps the keep phrase from my post was "... the system sounds very good...". Time to just enjoy.
:)

ece2k2 10-24-2019 04:33 AM

ARC Genesis 9006
 
If it is not too much of a trouble, could someone please provide me the ARC Genesis version 9006 installation file (Windows 64 bit). I am having a tough time with the latest version of ARC Genesis and I read that v9006 is the stable release. TIA for all your help!

Mike in NC 10-24-2019 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ece2k2 (Post 58724782)
If it is not too much of a trouble, could someone please provide me the ARC Genesis version 9006 installation file (Windows 64 bit). I am having a tough time with the latest version of ARC Genesis and I read that v9006 is the stable release. TIA for all your help!

PM sent.

By the way, I agree that the latest version is not so great. I've run into a couple of bugs myself.

Mike in NC 10-24-2019 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill-99 (Post 58699966)
Thanks, Legairre. I'm probably worrying about nothing and should just leave things as-is. Perhaps the keep phrase from my post was "... the system sounds very good...". Time to just enjoy.
:)

It seems you've already come to a good conclusion. I wanted to add, what you might hear without ARC -- assuming the measurements are correct -- would be that broad peak around 3 kHz. Since the ear is quite sensitive around there, it's pretty surely an improvement to have ARC massage the FR to avoid that peak. As to the slight shelf down that you'll get above 5 kHz, it's nothing to worry about IMO. Many recordings are too hot in the high frequencies anyway, and the reduction may be a good thing, making voices & music more realistic and pleasant to hear.

Regarding how high to correct, I have concluded (I think many would agree), it depends entirely on the room and speakers and their interaction. I finally settled on up to 1 kHz, by ear, but I don't expect that to be optimum for others.

ece2k2 10-24-2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike in NC (Post 58726020)
PM sent.

By the way, I agree that the latest version is not so great. I've run into a couple of bugs myself.

Much appreciated.

I have a quick question about ARC Genesis: After running ARC, I am seeing Subwoofer level of 6 dB under ARC level settings. But when I go into the Anthem receiver, the Subwoofer level is set to 11. Please let me know if this is normal. All other speakers have identical level in both places.


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