Dedicated ARC Genesis thread - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 2062 Old 11-06-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Glad to help Lars. Anthem says if you use another version of Genesis you should run Genesis all over again. Don't just upload your Genesis 9105 .ARC3 file into 9006. You should rerun Genesis all over again with 9006 and get a new .ARC3 file made with with 9006.
Tanks follow your advice and now its working.
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post #752 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 05:57 AM
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What I have read about the latest version of Genesis (9105) makes me really wondering, i.e.: was I right by using this version when I calibrated my STR preamp?

Shouldn't I have used the former version (9006)? From the tests I ran with REW there are small differences between ARC and no ARC (also with my ears) and I would like to know if any of you would have performed tests (ARC vs No ARC) with this latest version?
Thanks a lot,
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post #753 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rorosone View Post
What I have read about the latest version of Genesis (9105) makes me really wondering, i.e.: was I right by using this version when I calibrated my STR preamp?

Shouldn't I have used the former version (9006)? From the tests I ran with REW there are small differences between ARC and no ARC (also with my ears) and I would like to know if any of you would have performed tests (ARC vs No ARC) with this latest version?
Thanks a lot,
I haven't used 9105 so I haven't compared ARC vs no ARC with it. I stayed with 9006 because when 9105 was in beta people found several bugs that worked fine in 9006 but were now broken in 9105. Then a few days later 9105 became the release candidate on Anthem's site. I just didn't see the need to load 9105 when it broke things that had already been working in 9006.

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post #754 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
I haven't used 9105 so I haven't compared ARC vs no ARC with it. I stayed with 9006 because when 9105 was in beta people found several bugs that worked fine in 9006 but were now broken in 9105. Then a few days later 9105 became the release candidate on Anthem's site. I just didn't see the need to load 9105 when it broke things that had already been working in 9006.
Good move because the released 9105 is still broken yet they haven't removed it. I have opened a few tickets and they just said "it'll be fixed later". I rolled back to 9006 and had to remeasure again.

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post #755 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wyld0 View Post
Good move because the released 9105 is still broken yet they haven't removed it. I have opened a few tickets and they just said "it'll be fixed later". I rolled back to 9006 and had to remeasure again.

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IMO 9105 should have never been promoted from beta to release candidate. They should roll back 9105 and put 9006 on their site.

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post #756 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 09:43 AM
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Many thanks for your answers.
As I have to redo the calibration to some changes in my listening room, I will do it by using the 9006.
I will also remeasure by using REW and let you know.
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post #757 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 10:34 AM
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Exclamation Phase bug in 9105

If you have an Anthem model in which Genesis can set phase between subs and mains (STR series), you may be affected by this. I discovered that the auto phase adjustment is applied only to Profile 1. I found this using an independent measuring system & overcame it by setting phase on the subs manually (using the subs' own controls), then running auto phase again, which reset it to no adjustment; now all profiles are in proper phase.

This explains why, in my system, Profile 1 always seemed to give better bass than the other profiles. I had been scratching my head about that.

I suppose that if the four profiles were more different from one another, the same adjustment might not hold for all, but in my case, setting phase manually worked like a charm.

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Last edited by Mike in NC; 11-08-2019 at 02:03 PM. Reason: clarity
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post #758 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 02:31 PM
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Hi.
After installing version 9006 yesterday and listening through the new calibration, I wonder what Anthem is doing as long as they are sending out 9105 which is so wrong in both sound and phase it seems that the version is tipping the sound to the right
And if i look at the calibration file with 9006, the EQ curve looks completely different, more good bass in the 50-20Hz range and maybe down to ?.
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post #759 of 2062 Old 11-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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Genesis for Mac v9006

Hello All:

I am trying to find the Mac install for Genesis v9006. If anyone can point me to a download location, it will be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Zubair
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post #760 of 2062 Old 11-08-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Bergvall View Post
Hi.
After installing version 9006 yesterday and listening through the new calibration, I wonder what Anthem is doing as long as they are sending out 9105 which is so wrong in both sound and phase it seems that the version is tipping the sound to the right
And if i look at the calibration file with 9006, the EQ curve looks completely different, more good bass in the 50-20Hz range and maybe down to ?.
Hello Lars,

It's good to hear you are getting better results. Myself, I didn't notice better sound with one version or the other, but definitely there are some bugs in 9105. I'm not sure if the auto-phase worked better in 9006 or not. It is a new feature for Anthem, and maybe it's never been right.

What I have found are two things.

(1) Results are highly dependent on the measurements. In my case, for example, I use relatively directional speakers (electrostatics), and I get much better results by measuring in a smaller area than recommended by Anthem. My measurements are only 15 cm apart or so. Also, my speakers are well matched, so if ARC reports different gain applied to each front speaker, I understand that my measurements were not symmetrical, and I take a new set of measurements.

(2) Do not hesitate to experiment with the various settings given by ARC, for example, room gain, maximum correction frequency, and LF boost. If you have good measurements, you can simply copy the ARC3 file to another name, bring it into ARC, change the parameters, and run the corrections again. That way, you can experiment without taking endless measurements and without losing your original results.

In my 2.2 systems, I have tried several kinds of automatic and manual DSP, and I do think that ARC is one of the better ones. I hope that you are able to get good results, too.
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post #761 of 2062 Old 11-09-2019, 04:06 PM
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Does ARC Genesis help any with dual subs? I have a new 1120 and trying to figure out how to setup dual subs.
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post #762 of 2062 Old 11-09-2019, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Does ARC Genesis help any with dual subs? I have a new 1120 and trying to figure out how to setup dual subs.
Dude, everyone has dual subs. The Anthem will work perfectly fine with them. Just run ARC and enjoy it.
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post #763 of 2062 Old 11-10-2019, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Multiple Subs

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Does ARC Genesis help any with dual subs? I have a new 1120 and trying to figure out how to setup dual subs.
Assuming ARC Genesis is same with 1120 and AVM60. Since Genesis does not allow you to set subwoofers louder than it wants, first determine the acceptable volume. Then, back out of full calibration and go to Quick Measure. Use Quick Measure to level match the subs and adjust phase for flattest FR. Then run full calibration. If Genesis sets calibration level in positive level, lower the calibration level to at least -5 and raise volume in each sub by the corresponding amount.
That should do it. If you have REW, it is a little easier for the level matching and phase adjustment.

The above may seem tedious, but once you do it you will see it is relatively quick and easy and the results are well worth the extra effort.

Good luck and congratulations on your new 1120.
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post #764 of 2062 Old 11-10-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Does ARC Genesis help any with dual subs? I have a new 1120 and trying to figure out how to setup dual subs.
Multiple subs work perfectly on the MRX. All you do is "gain" match each sub "individually" (which should be done when using multiple subs regardless of receiver brand). Myself and many others have been using multiple subs for years and there is no problems using multiple subs withe MRX receivers.

Individually gain match each sub separately:
1. Take an SPL meter and place in your MLP(main listening position)
2. Turn on sub1 and turn off sub2.
3. Use the gain/volume on the back of sub1 adjust it so sub1 reads 71dB.
4. Turn on sub2 and off turn sub1.
5. Use the gain/volume on the back of sub2 adjust it so sub2 reads 71dB.
6. Make sure both subs are on.
7. Run ARC.

Per page 22 of the MRX 1120 manual: https://www.anthemav.com/downloads/a...ish-manual.pdf

Quote:
MULTIPLE SUBWOOFERS
If using multiple subwoofers they should be balanced to one another before
calibrating the rest of your system. If using ARC, simply use the Quick Measure
function to help find flat response as a preliminary step before running full
measurement. If setting up the traditional way, play the subwoofer test noise with
only one subwoofer connected at a time. Set its input level dial so the SPL meter
reads 71 dB from the listening area if using two subs, or 67 dB if using four subs.
Repeat this for the remaining subs. When all are connected the result should be
around 75 dB – make final adjustment in the level calibration menu.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
Dedicated ARC Genesis Thread

Last edited by Legairre; 11-10-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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post #765 of 2062 Old 11-10-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Does ARC Genesis help any with dual subs? I have a new 1120 and trying to figure out how to setup dual subs.
Multiple subs work perfectly on the MRX. All you do is "gain" match each sub "individually" (which should be done when using multiple subs regardless of receiver brand). Myself and many others have been using multiple subs for years and there is no problems using multiple subs withe MRX receivers.

Individually gain match each sub separately:
1. Take an SPL meter and place in your MLP(main listening position)
2. Turn on sub1 and turn off sub2.
3. Use the gain/volume on the back of sub1 adjust it so sub1 reads 71dB.
4. Turn on sub2 and off turn sub1.
5. Use the gain/volume on the back of sub2 adjust it so sub2 reads 71dB.
6. Make sure both subs are on.
7. Run ARC.

Per page 22 of the MRX 1120 manual: https://www.anthemav.com/downloads/a...ish-manual.pdf

Quote:
MULTIPLE SUBWOOFERS
If using multiple subwoofers they should be balanced to one another before
calibrating the rest of your system. If using ARC, simply use the Quick Measure
function to help find flat response as a preliminary step before running full
measurement. If setting up the traditional way, play the subwoofer test noise with
only one subwoofer connected at a time. Set its input level dial so the SPL meter
reads 71 dB from the listening area if using two subs, or 67 dB if using four subs.
Repeat this for the remaining subs. When all are connected the result should be
around 75 dB – make final adjustment in the level calibration menu.
Setting the volume is with the pink noise, correct?
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post #766 of 2062 Old 11-10-2019, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrazrback View Post
Setting the volume is with the pink noise, correct?
Yes you can even use use the MRX Level Calibration screen which uses a pink noise generator.

1. Go to the MRX "Level Calibration" screen for any input and make sure the subwoofer level is set to "0".
2. Set your SPL meter to C-weighted and Slow Response.
3. Set the MRX Test Noise on the Level Calibration screen to "ON".
4. Toggle down to the subwoofer
5. Gain match each sub individually using the SPL meter and MRX Level Calibration Screen.
6. Then run ARC.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
Dedicated ARC Genesis Thread

Last edited by Legairre; 11-10-2019 at 09:50 AM.
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post #767 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 08:17 AM
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Since rolling back to version 9006, my system sounds amazing! My question is then if my system sounds so good right now, why would I ever need to update my software? In my opinion, I would never need to remeasure anyway unless I buy new equipment which is very unlikely.
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post #768 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
Since rolling back to version 9006, my system sounds amazing! My question is then if my system sounds so good right now, why would I ever need to update my software? In my opinion, I would never need to re-measure anyway unless I buy new equipment which is very unlikely.
I know how you feel. Mine with 9006 also sounds incredible. I usually load the beta versions right away and since I keep all the previous versions I know I can always re-measure and roll back if I don’t like it. 9006 sounds so good that when the beta for 9105 came out I held off loading it because I figured 9006 was so good I could wait to see what others say about 9105.

IMO you're right there isn't much reason for me to upgrade to a new version either unless they improve the SQ even more.

I couldn’t remember what 9105 was supposed to fix from 9006 so I went back and looked and only #1 & #6 (if you use tilt) would affect the sound quality of an AVM 60 or MRX.

Version 1.1.1.9105
1. fixed issue where ARCG could measure an MRX x20 or AVM 60 at the wrong level
2. fixed some issues with the formatting/layout of the title page on pdf reports
3. fixed some issues relating to the Persona 9H
4. fixed an issue where quick measure was not working reliably on the STR Integrated Amp or STR Preamp
5. fixed an issue where quick measure was not working on the Paradigm PW 600/800/Amp/Link and MartinLogan Forte/Bravado/Unison
6. minimum high frequency tilt start frequency is now 5 hz (select '0 Hz' in UI)
7. fixed issue where canceling an upload would not actually cancel until after it completed
8. fixed an issue where ARCG would make a poor choice for high pass settings on subwoofers when more than one was measured (MartinLogan Masterpiece series, and 2 sub mono on STR series)

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"
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post #769 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
I know how you feel. Mine with 9006 also sounds incredible. I usually load the beta versions right away and since I keep all the previous versions I know I can always re-measure and roll back if I don’t like it. 9006 sounds so good that when the beta for 9105 came out I held off loading it because I figured 9006 was so good I could wait to see what others say about 9105.

IMO you're right there isn't much reason for me to upgrade to a version either unless they improve the SQ even more.

I couldn’t remember what 9105 was supposed to fix from 9006 so I went back and looked and only #1 & #6 (if you use tilt) would affect the sound quality of an AVM 60 or MRX.

Version 1.1.1.9105
1. fixed issue where ARCG could measure an MRX x20 or AVM 60 at the wrong level
2. fixed some issues with the formatting/layout of the title page on pdf reports
3. fixed some issues relating to the Persona 9H
4. fixed an issue where quick measure was not working reliably on the STR Integrated Amp or STR Preamp
5. fixed an issue where quick measure was not working on the Paradigm PW 600/800/Amp/Link and MartinLogan Forte/Bravado/Unison
6. minimum high frequency tilt start frequency is now 5 hz (select '0 Hz' in UI)
7. fixed issue where canceling an upload would not actually cancel until after it completed
8. fixed an issue where ARCG would make a poor choice for high pass settings on subwoofers when more than one was measured (MartinLogan Masterpiece series, and 2 sub mono on STR series)
I do use tilt. Have you found the beta version sounds as good as 9006? If so, I may try updating. If I don't like it, can I just revert back to the older software and measurements/settings I'm using now?
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post #770 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I do use tilt. Have you found the beta version sounds as good as 9006? If so, I may try updating. If I don't like it, can I just revert back to the older software and measurements/settings I'm using now?
You know I never loaded 9105. I usually load the beta versions right away and since I keep all the previous versions, I know I can always roll back if I don’t like it. 9006 sounds so good that when the beta for 9105 came out I held off loading it because I figured 9006 was so good I could wait to see what others say about 9105.

9105 is buggy but if you want to try it just save your 9006 install .zip file and the 9006 .ARC3 file. Then load 9105, re-measure and try it. If you don’t like it you don’t have to -re-measure again to get back to 9006 because you saved your 9006 .ARC3 file. Just re-install 9006 and load your 9006 .ARC3 file and you’re back to that great sound.

BTW I think the tilt in 9105 was broken even more than in previous versions.

AVS member Mike in NC found these bugs in 9105. Others have found a few more.
(1) ‘Auto Detect (System-Wide Target and All Channels)’ does not reset room gain to the default value.
(2) Changing 'Tilt Start Frequency' does not change the target curve.
(3) A profile with room gain = 1.5 dB plays music with stronger/heavier bass than an otherwise identical profile with room gain = 3.0 dB.

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Last edited by Legairre; 11-11-2019 at 09:18 AM.
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post #771 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
You know I never loaded 9105. I usually load the beta versions right away and since I keep all the previous versions, I know I can always roll back if I don’t like it. 9006 sounds so good that when the beta for 9105 came out I held off loading it because I figured 9006 was so good I could wait to see what others say about 9105.

9105 is buggy but if you want to try it just save your 9006 install .zip file and the 9006 .ARC3 file. Then load 9105, re-measure and try it. If you don’t like it you don’t have to -re-measure again to get back to 9006 because you saved your 9006 .ARC3 file. Just re-install 9006 and load your 9006 .ARC3 file and you’re back to that great sound.

BTW I think the tilt in 9105 was broken even more than in previous versions.

AVS member Mike in NC found these bugs in 9105. Others have found a few more.
(1) ‘Auto Detect (System-Wide Target and All Channels)’ does not reset room gain to the default value.
(2) Changing 'Tilt Start Frequency' does not change the target curve.
(3) A profile with room gain = 1.5 dB plays music with stronger/heavier bass than an otherwise identical profile with room gain = 3.0 dB.
I think I'll stick with 9006. Thanks so much! I'm grateful that somebody (namely you) saved the old install program so I could go back to 9006!!
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post #772 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Why Do Phase Adjustment?

I have included a REW graph showing the difference in my system between only Level Matching the subwoofers versus doing an additional phase adjustment after level matching. The extra effort seems well worth it to me.
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post #773 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 11:20 AM
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Would anybody have the 9006 installation file for Mac that they could send to me?

Thanks in advance!


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post #774 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
I think I'll stick with 9006. Thanks so much! I'm grateful that somebody (namely you) saved the old install program so I could go back to 9006!!
Hey no problem Mitch, glad to help.
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post #775 of 2062 Old 11-11-2019, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
AVS member Mike in NC found these bugs in 9105. Others have found a few more.
(1) ‘Auto Detect (System-Wide Target and All Channels)’ does not reset room gain to the default value.
(2) Changing 'Tilt Start Frequency' does not change the target curve.
(3) A profile with room gain = 1.5 dB plays music with stronger/heavier bass than an otherwise identical profile with room gain = 3.0 dB.
Yes; I later found that item [3] is probably a symptom of the automatic phase adjustment's being applied only to Profile 1 (I consider that a bug). If that conclusion is right -- making a manual phase adjustment supports it, as the problem went away -- this bug affects only devices with that feature, I think only the STR series right now.

Despite all that, I'm using 9105 now and getting as good sound from it as ever.

Mike (Portland, Oregon)
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post #776 of 2062 Old 11-12-2019, 05:07 AM
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More bugs in arc genisis found that bypass to the subwoofer does not work in bassmangement.
Gets the same measurement values with the switched off and at 80Hz low pass.
Also made measurements with ARC connected And out of connected no great aha experience if compare measurements.
And that with software 9006.
Phase is still turning it to the right most noticeable in movies but you hear trends even in music listening. I have a reference system that I use really for music listening.
And there I hear directly that Anthem phase is turning to the right I have tried to compensate for this but it is still not good.
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post #777 of 2062 Old 11-12-2019, 10:05 AM
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New to Anthem after years of a Denon with Audyssey XT32. Have used and measured (XTZ - REW for Dummies) both firmwares, and for my interests they're essentially the same. I don't know how anyone can run any room correction without the basic ability to at least do level matching (i.e. calibrated mic in the same position as the room correction one.)

So, my experience with the system is that in my room, either firmware, it targets +3db for surrounds and center, +6db for sub, and wants to emphasize the right main. It constantly confuses me because the boost in the AVM 60 is essentially the same for left and right, but it consistently measures higher by 2db on the right. Audyssey targets equal everywhere IIRC. If you're doing the math, one way of looking at it is the only speaker that matches level with the reference number in the unit (75db) is the left main.

Rounding off, all speakers (basic 5.1 setup) are +4db and surrounds +10db. Every time. I took someone's advice (thanks someone) above and rejiggered the sub (stacked Hsu VTF4s) to be negative and it's a nice tweak I think.

I have a little experiment planned for today. To me it clearly cuts gain (ARC-G) as a part of the deal. I don't think it's a natural by-product of the EQ, but just an automatic cut. On the other hand, it would be so blatantly obvious to other people, maybe it's different for everyone, thus implying that it actually is a by-product of your particular setup. But I notice people saying sound looses its life with ARC engaged, so not to run it too high in frequency. I speculate they're falling victim to the louder sounds better phenomena. Since I really want to have a tilt, which is clearly not possible without running max EQ up pretty high (12K works for me) I'm going to make a profile with a tilt that I want and compare to my normal 1Kish max.

To put the above another way, I can't go back and forth between ARC and no ARC because the level is at least 10db higher with no ARC. But I should be able to go between this ARC and that ARC with no difference. Unless some people are correct and then it should be lower gain for the tilt profile.

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post #778 of 2062 Old 11-13-2019, 04:59 AM
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Hi Dears,


As I wrote some days ago, I uninstalled the 9105 version and ran the calibration with the 9006 version.
On both versions I have the same concern: Why have I different values between Genesis , the PDF report and my STR Preamp? (please see "correction values" attached file?. What do you think?

I made extra measurements by using REW and I found the correction made by 9006 a bit better, also from listening. However I think that this difference may come from measurement quality.
Please note that I don't have any acoustic treatment in my room and that is going to be challenging to add some.
I have used the automatic mode because I still have some unaddressed concerns with the manual mode and I am not skilled enough to readjust my correction curves.
And this is not with the user manual that I will know how to do. Should any of you has a tutorial or anything equivalent that help me to understand, I would appreciate a lot.
Thanks in advance
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Last edited by rorosone; 11-13-2019 at 05:05 AM.
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post #779 of 2062 Old 11-13-2019, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorosone View Post
Hi Dears,


As I wrote some days ago, I uninstalled the 9105 version and ran the calibration with the 9006 version.
On both versions I have the same concern: Why have I different values between Genesis , the PDF report and my STR Preamp? (please see "correction values" attached file?. What do you think?

I made extra measurements by using REW and I found the correction made by 9006 a bit better, also from listening. However I think that this difference may come from measurement quality.
Please note that I don't have any acoustic treatment in my room and that is going to be challenging to add some.
I have used the automatic mode because I still have some unaddressed concerns with the manual mode and I am not skilled enough to readjust my correction curves.
And this is not with the user manual that I will know how to do. Should any of you has a tutorial or anything equivalent that help me to understand, I would appreciate a lot.
Thanks in advance
Seems to be a common bug everyone experiences but Anthem has not fixed. I think it's been like this since ARC Genesis - it does not happen in old ARC.

The maximum correction dB value is +12. ARC is measuring a strangely high target dB and then assuming the channels can boost beyond what the equipment is capable of. The other odd thing is that the correction curves seem to be only negative values for flattening so lowering the values, tends to lower the performance of the results.

A quick work around is to just slide your target dB down to -3dB. I don't know why ARC Genesis only allows the 3dB range. But good news for your measurements is dragging it down - 3dB should move your channels down away from the cap and have them properly calibrated to each other.

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post #780 of 2062 Old 11-13-2019, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fjames View Post
I have a little experiment planned for today. To me it clearly cuts gain (ARC-G) as a part of the deal. I don't think it's a natural by-product of the EQ, but just an automatic cut. On the other hand, it would be so blatantly obvious to other people, maybe it's different for everyone, thus implying that it actually is a by-product of your particular setup. But I notice people saying sound looses its life with ARC engaged, so not to run it too high in frequency. I speculate they're falling victim to the louder sounds better phenomena. Since I really want to have a tilt, which is clearly not possible without running max EQ up pretty high (12K works for me) I'm going to make a profile with a tilt that I want and compare to my normal 1Kish max.
After 4 hours or so of 2 channel music listening last night, I can hear no difference (other than the expected tilt) between a 1K max EQ and a 12K max. If I cared enough I'd generate an external test tone and check level with and without ARC. Maybe try a selection of tones, at the least and most EQ'd frequencies. But I don't care enough lol. Sounds great btw, I'm not complaining, just observing.

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

Mickey: You have perfection about you. Your eyes have music. Your heart's the best part of your body. And when you move, every man, woman and child is forced to watch.
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