Dedicated ARC Genesis thread - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #781 of 980 Old 11-13-2019, 10:02 AM
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Seems like people are still generally happy with Genesis although it still requires a bit of work to get the phasing/distance between subs and main all dialed in. Are you guys who are doing the phasing/distance before arc finding that you have to go back after the filters are applied (Filters affect phase) and having to fine-tune your prior settings or is Genesis not messing things up too terribly bad?

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post #782 of 980 Old 11-13-2019, 10:12 AM
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Is "3" the default setting for room gain? Or is it "0"?

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post #783 of 980 Old 11-13-2019, 11:44 AM
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Thanks wyld0, I will do it and let the forum know about the results.
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post #784 of 980 Old 11-13-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
Yes; I later found that item [3] is probably a symptom of the automatic phase adjustment's being applied only to Profile 1 (I consider that a bug). If that conclusion is right -- making a manual phase adjustment supports it, as the problem went away -- this bug affects only devices with that feature, I think only the STR series right now.

Despite all that, I'm using 9105 now and getting as good sound from it as ever.
Glad to hear 9105 sounds as good as 9006. Good to know the SQ is still there.

I loaded my old .ARC2 file (still have both ARC2 and Genesis on my laptop) from the version of ARC2 before Genesis was released the other night to compare with Genesis. Bugs or no bugs Genesis sounds night and day better than ARC2. As soon as I loaded and listened to a few scenes of Mission Impossible Fallout it was apparent how flat and less detailed ARC2 sounded. I then reloaded my Genesis 9006 .ARC3 file and it was like I had a new receiver or speakers. The sound with Genesis is much more lively with a large soundstage and lots of detail. I had gotten so accustomed to how great Genesis sounds that I had forgotten how much better it sounded compared to ARC2. There may be bugs but Genesis is so much better than what we had in ARC2 that I should stop complaining about bugs.
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post #785 of 980 Old 11-14-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Bergvall View Post
More bugs in arc genisis found that bypass to the subwoofer does not work in bassmangement.
Gets the same measurement values with the switched off and at 80Hz low pass.
Also made measurements with ARC connected And out of connected no great aha experience if compare measurements.
And that with software 9006.
Phase is still turning it to the right most noticeable in movies but you hear trends even in music listening. I have a reference system that I use really for music listening.
And there I hear directly that Anthem phase is turning to the right I have tried to compensate for this but it is still not good.
Sorry about the dumb question, but how do you measure with ARC on and off? I thought quick measure was always with ARC off...

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post #786 of 980 Old 11-14-2019, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket-RJ View Post
Sorry about the dumb question, but how do you measure with ARC on and off? I thought quick measure was always with ARC off...
Sorry I'm not the user you quoted, but you are correct. ARC is disabled/off when running quick measure.
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post #787 of 980 Old 11-14-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Sorry I'm not the user you quoted, but you are correct. ARC is disabled/off when running quick measure.
Thx.

Is there a way to "check" ARC Genesis results within the program? Or do I need REW or something like that? I remember that was something to be implemented when all we have was ARC2.

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post #788 of 980 Old 11-14-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket-RJ View Post
Thx.

Is there a way to "check" ARC Genesis results within the program? Or do I need REW or something like that? I remember that was something to be implemented when all we have was ARC2.

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There isn't anything in that I know of in Genesis that will check the result and quick measure can't check the results because it turns ARC off. Myself and others have used REW to check the results but REW gives different results than ARC2 and Genesis probably due to the differences in the UMIK-1 and ARC mics. I haven't taken the time to do it but probably the best you could do is take REW measurements with ARC on and off and compare them. The results won't match the actual ARC/Genesisi graphs but you'll still see the on/off differences in the REW graphs.
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post #789 of 980 Old 11-14-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cricket-RJ View Post
Thx.

Is there a way to "check" ARC Genesis results within the program? Or do I need REW or something like that? I remember that was something to be implemented when all we have was ARC2.

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Brown ARC off Blu Arc on
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post #790 of 980 Old 11-14-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Myself and others have used REW to check the results but REW gives different results than ARC2 and Genesis probably due to the differences in the UMIK-1 and ARC mics.
Aside from the mics, I'd suspect the bigger difference is that we cannot duplicate the math ARC uses to merge the multiple mic data. That's their black magic.
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post #791 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Aside from the mics, I'd suspect the bigger difference is that we cannot duplicate the math ARC uses to merge the multiple mic data. That's their black magic.
Roger is absolutely correct.

You can confidently compare a sub measurement from one mic position using Genesis Quick Measure (ARC will be off), with a measurement from the same single mic position using REW and a UMIK. These measurements should look extremely similar unless your mic position between measurements is not within a half inch or so.

Once you measure from multiple positions and Genesis creates a solution (and a combined response graph for you to veiw), you cannot compare that to a single mic position measurement using REW. It will ALWAYS differ. I think most people realize this, but it's worth mentioning again so people don't chase their tail trying to figure out why their subwoofer channel graph in Genesis does not look like the one you see when running a sweep in REW.

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post #792 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 03:48 PM
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Checking on ARC with ARC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
There isn't anything in that I know of in Genesis that will check the result and quick measure can't check the results because it turns ARC off.
My experience supports the general tenor of this discussion -- the difficulty of comparing ARC measurements to others, because of the particular averaging used -- but I do want to ask about the above statement. Last time I tried Quick Measure with my STR Preamp, there was some software problem, but the Quick Measure screen did have a toggle labeled "Use ARC Correction". Is this not a way to see what the ARC-corrected signal looks like at the main listening position?

(Unfortunately, ARC Genesis crashed each time I tried to toggle that.)

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post #793 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 03:55 PM
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9006 File

Hi,

Can someone send me the 9006 file for Windows 64bit.

Thank you
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post #794 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
My experience supports the general tenor of this discussion -- the difficulty of comparing ARC measurements to others, because of the particular averaging used -- but I do want to ask about the above statement. Last time I tried Quick Measure with my STR Preamp, there was some software problem, but the Quick Measure screen did have a toggle labeled "Use ARC Correction". Is this not a way to see what the ARC-corrected signal looks like at the main listening position?

(Unfortunately, ARC Genesis crashed each time I tried to toggle that.)
I might be crazy, but I remember that quick measure with ARC on/off toggle was supposed to be one of Genesis feature before launching speculations.

That button is not available here...

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post #795 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammerr View Post
Hi,

Can someone send me the 9006 file for Windows 64bit.

Thank you
Bill
Sure, no problem. Check your PMs.

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post #796 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
My experience supports the general tenor of this discussion -- the difficulty of comparing ARC measurements to others, because of the particular averaging used -- but I do want to ask about the above statement. Last time I tried Quick Measure with my STR Preamp, there was some software problem, but the Quick Measure screen did have a toggle labeled "Use ARC Correction". Is this not a way to see what the ARC-corrected signal looks like at the main listening position?

(Unfortunately, ARC Genesis crashed each time I tried to toggle that.)
Is that a feature of Genesis on the STR? That feature doesn't exist in Genesis for the MRX and AVM.

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post #797 of 980 Old 11-15-2019, 11:33 PM
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Does anyone have the Mac install for Genesis v9006 that they'd be willing to share? I'd love to try that version on my system.


Thank you!
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post #798 of 980 Old 11-16-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Anyware View Post
Does anyone have the Mac install for Genesis v9006 that they'd be willing to share? I'd love to try that version on my system.
Same here. I would greatly appreciate a share of Mac install for Genesis v9006 also.

Thank you.

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post #799 of 980 Old 11-16-2019, 01:42 PM
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Is "3" the default setting for room gain? Or is it "0"?
The way I understand it, there's no default, it simply measures your room, and gives you some approximation of it. Mine always comes out .5 or .625 for instance.

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post #800 of 980 Old 11-16-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Seems like people are still generally happy with Genesis although it still requires a bit of work to get the phasing/distance between subs and main all dialed in. Are you guys who are doing the phasing/distance before arc finding that you have to go back after the filters are applied (Filters affect phase) and having to fine-tune your prior settings or is Genesis not messing things up too terribly bad?
This doesn't answer your question, but gives some interesting perspective I think.

My workflow is always the same - do whatever, then measure. Whatever starts with running anti-mode, which I then forget about unless something obviously changes.

So, compared to my old Audyssey XT32 setup, after running Genesis I made significant bass smoothness gains by reversing phase (my only option) and playing with sub distance. The subs real-world measure at 9 ft., Audyssey measured best at 14.7 ft. and ARC liked them at 11 ft. Audyssey liked phase the opposite way, and all this with the original anti-mode setting.
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post #801 of 980 Old 11-17-2019, 07:01 PM
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Same here. I would greatly appreciate a share of Mac install for Genesis v9006 also.
Turns out I've still got it and hadn't realised. More than happy to share.
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post #802 of 980 Old 11-17-2019, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vollans View Post
Turns out I've still got it and hadn't realised. More than happy to share.
Any chance you'd be willing to PM a link to the file? Thanks!
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post #803 of 980 Old 11-19-2019, 12:58 AM
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Maybe it would be useful having a link for Genesis v9006 download posted here instead of sending PM to everyone…

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post #804 of 980 Old 11-19-2019, 03:50 AM
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Guys, I have a doubt: lets' say post ARC trim levels sit around +8/+10 and I reach reference SPL with main volume at -10. As far as you know, is there a difference of some sort if I decrease all trim levels by, let's say, 10 dB, increasing main volume at 0? Is the overall sound the same both in terms of quality and SPL?

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post #805 of 980 Old 11-19-2019, 09:58 AM
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Can someone send me 9006 for Windows?


Much appreciated.
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post #806 of 980 Old 11-19-2019, 10:52 AM
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Can someone send me 9006 for Windows?


Much appreciated.
Sure pm sent.

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post #807 of 980 Old 11-19-2019, 11:45 AM
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Sure pm sent.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply.
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post #808 of 980 Old 11-19-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegladiator75 View Post
Guys, I have a doubt: lets' say post ARC trim levels sit around +8/+10 and I reach reference SPL with main volume at -10. As far as you know, is there a difference of some sort if I decrease all trim levels by, let's say, 10 dB, increasing main volume at 0? Is the overall sound the same both in terms of quality and SPL?
Overall sound is the same. There is only one gain control element in the signal path.

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post #809 of 980 Old 11-20-2019, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vollans View Post
Turns out I've still got it and hadn't realised. More than happy to share.
For some reason, the PM link doesn’t work and returns a 404 not found error. I hate to be a bother, but could you double-check the URL?

Thank you.
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post #810 of 980 Old 11-21-2019, 12:12 AM
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Re-sent

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