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post #1111 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 02:51 PM
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How does ARC genesis compare to audyssey xt32 for integrating 2 or more subwoofers into uniform bass under 80hz? Thanks for any opinions.
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post #1112 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by saj3 View Post
How does ARC genesis compare to audyssey xt32 for integrating 2 or more subwoofers into uniform bass under 80hz? Thanks for any opinions.
That is all on you and YMMV by the effort you put into it. No matter what you do the Anthem will always see your sub/s as one sub and make the appropriate calibration for it.

I like it this way for I use a miniDSP HD to make all the adjustments and alignments needed for them all(I have 4 subs) to work together making the Anthem see them as one "phantom" sub.
This yields fantastic bass!!!! across all 6 seats in both rows with barely a db of difference.
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post #1113 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
BTW have you tried 1220? If not the only thing you have to loose by trying it is the time it takes to run Genesis. For myself and some others it's been an improvement even over 9006. 9006 is really really good so to get even better sound was worth trying 1220 for me.

No, down loading and running tomorrow. I’ll have to down load a copy of 9006 to a thumb drive before installing 1220.


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post #1114 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
No, down loading and running tomorrow. I’ll have to down load a copy of 9006 to a thumb drive before installing 1220.


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Here's a link to 9006 if you need it. Click the download (down arrow) in the upper right corner. Then wait about 20 seconds for the download dialog or blue download button.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n7e2lhbP-lorAK5oLrW9VM1gdnKkwHoY/view?usp=sharing
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post #1115 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Here's a link to 9006 if you need it. Click the download (down arrow) in the upper right corner. Then wait about 20 seconds for the download dialog or blue download button.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n7e2lhbP-lorAK5oLrW9VM1gdnKkwHoY/view?usp=sharing
Thanks...Is this the Mac OS version?

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post #1116 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Thanks...Is this the Mac OS version?
No it's the win64 version. I've started keeping copies of the mac os versions, but I don't have 9006. Check post #1069 . Thrillcat, sent a copy of the mac os version to eyecatcher so he can probably send it to you too.
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post #1117 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
No it's the win64 version. I've started keeping copies of the mac os versions, but I don't have 9006. Check post #1069 . Thrillcat, sent a copy of the mac os version to eyecatcher so he can probably send it to you too.
@thrillcat - do you mind sending me a Mac OS copy of 9006 in case I need to roll back? Thank you!

@Legairre - thank you!

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post #1118 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
@thrillcat - do you mind sending me a Mac OS copy of 9006 in case I need to roll back? Thank you!

@Legairre - thank you!

Mike
Hey no problem, always glad to help.

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post #1119 of 2062 Old 02-06-2020, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Aw man you guys are so right. I can't even remember how many times I've run ARC1 (MRX 300), ARC2 or Genesis and figured wow it sounds good let me see ry if I can make it sound even better with another calibration, only to find just the slightest difference in mic height or position either gave a better or worse calibration (always save your Genesis .arc3 files under different names case the next calibration is worse).

I did this with 1220 too. The next day after having a perfect calibration I figured ah lets see if it can possibly get an even better one. Well that calibration was pretty bass heavy in the center channel and at loud volumes things sounded off.
Definitely don't need a bloated bass heavy CC...from a bad cal...

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post #1120 of 2062 Old 02-07-2020, 07:12 AM
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I have ran 3 calibrations with the 1.2.2.0 firmware and got basically the same results each time.
For me the 9006 firmware was garbage. I never had a calibration that did not degrade the sound. I had speaker levels of -18dBs and ran a new calibration and got levels of -9 and -10dBs. WTF? I used the same mike positions for both. No problem with the positioning. I use plumb bobs hung from the ceiling to locate each position.
I would have returned my new 720 for a refund if I had this option. No dealer in my area so it was a special order with a 25% restocking fee so I kept it hoping that new firmware would fix some of these bugs.

I would have taken the Anthem out of my system if the results were no better than what I was getting before. May sound as good as my old Denon now.
So for me the beta firmware was miles better than the 9006 version.
It is very curious that we can get results that are so different with the same software versions. Why would 1.2.2.0 work for me and not for someone else? You would think that the firmware would have the same result on any of the hardware it is attached to.
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post #1121 of 2062 Old 02-07-2020, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by saj3 View Post
How does ARC genesis compare to audyssey xt32 for integrating 2 or more subwoofers into uniform bass under 80hz? Thanks for any opinions.
Audyssey xt32 was much easier to get integrated than ARC. With ARC I had to add a miniDSP to my system get results that were close to what xt32 could do. I have 4 subs and for me ARC could not get these intergrated without outside help. Maybe it was not ARC's that was the problem. It could have been the idiot at the controls.
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Originally Posted by saj3 View Post
How does ARC genesis compare to audyssey xt32 for integrating 2 or more subwoofers into uniform bass under 80hz? Thanks for any opinions.

In my 2.2 system (with STR Preamp), ARC does a great job of integrating two subs. I can't speak to operation in av/mch systems nor with >2 subs.

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post #1123 of 2062 Old 02-08-2020, 07:20 PM
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Tried out the 1.2.2.0 beta today. Ran the sweeps twice and both times the levels on all speakers maxed out to +12. I had this happen on an earlier version and was able to correct it by setting the Dolby Offset / Calibration level to a low number (like -6 or -9). That would result in getting speaker levels lower than the max of +12 and I could see different levels across my 9 speakers and 2 subs. With the beta, everything is maxed out at the same level, so I’m losing the relative differences in levels (at least according to previous versions). The Dolby Offset thing doesn’t appear to be having any affect with this version. I changed the levels to match previous versions and am listening to the results. Sounds pretty good, but it bugs me that I am having to manually change levels. Does anyone know what is causing this or what I am doing wrong?

I’ve got things set up in a 5.2.4 configuration. The five mains are Paradigm Prestige and the 4 height speakers and 2 subs are SVS. My receiver is the MRX 1120.

Thanks for any suggestions.

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post #1124 of 2062 Old 02-09-2020, 04:11 PM
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Dolby Offset / Calibration Level setting affect on ARC Genesis

After extensive testing, I can report the following affects of the Dolby Offset / Calibration level setting from the Level Calibration menu on the MRX 1120:

For ARC Genesis 9006 version:

The values entered in the calibration level on the receiver has an inverse relationship on the measured level of each speaker in ARC Genesis. This affect shows up in both the quick measure and the full calibration runs. For example, when set at 0, my left front measures at 57 db. When set at -12, the same speaker measures at 69db.

This is very useful for the full calibration run, since ARC Genesis sets an overall target level at 75db. With measurements like my front left at 57, that means that Genesis runs out of room to reach the target and maxes out the level of that speaker at +12. It does the same for all of my speakers. By setting the calibration level to -12, there is enough headroom so that the Genesis can set the level where it needs to be without maxing out. I’m not sure why the max level on Genesis is +12, but that is the way it appears to be.


For ARC Genesis Beta 1.2.2.0 version:

The Dolby Offset / Calibration level setting on the receiver has no impact on the measured level in ARC Genesis. For me, that means that all of my speakers get maxed out at +12 as Genesis tries to hit the 75db target. No idea why this works differently, but this also did not work in the 9105 version.

So, what to do. I took the relative differences in my speaker settings from the 9006 runs and manually adjusted the levels from the 1.2.2.0 run. For example, my center speaker measures 2b lower than the left/right mains.

Next, I listened to both the 9006 run and 1.2.2.0 run for several movie scenes and lots of music. I would listen to a track on one version and then load the other and then listen to the same track again.

Despite the problem with setting levels, I determined that for my setup, the 1.2.2.0 version sounded better. It was not a dramatic difference and both sounded good, but it was a noticeable difference. The bass seemed tighter and the center channel dialogue was clearer and easier to understand. The surrounds and height effects were also a a bit more pronounced.

I have no idea why I am getting this level issue. Most of my gear comes from the same company (Anthem receiver and Paradigm Prestige speakers). I do have SVS subs and height speakers along with one set of RBH ceiling mounted heights. When I called Anthem, they said that the measured levels were accurate and denied that there was any impact from the calibration level and the Genesis measurements. They are wrong about that last thing. I ran the tests many times and it is easy to see the impact using the quick measure function in ARC (on the 9006 version).

I’m going to report this test result to them again next week and see what they say. I do hope they fix this issue in some future version. For now, I’ll just use the manual adjustment method to keep my relative levels correct.

I hope this information is helpful and will save someone from pulling their hair out (like I have been doing).
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post #1125 of 2062 Old 02-09-2020, 04:21 PM
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First, a confession: I have not read this whole 38 pages thread.

My question is, what IS the ARC Genesis? How does it work?
- My understanding of the Audyssey and Dirac systems is they are time based, presumably reconvolving the digital data to try and hit a target impulse response (though I've never seen this explained too clearly).
- My understanding of MCACC, YPAO, etc is they are basically automated parametric equalizers, which can work fine sometimes but is not as powerful for some acoustic situations.
- My assumption (due to zero technical explanation that I've found) is that ARC Genesis is an automated parametric system.
Does anyone know for sure? (Including the other systems, which also have a dearth of deep technical information).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knmlee View Post
Dolby Offset / Calibration Level setting affect on ARC Genesis

After extensive testing, I can report the following affects of the Dolby Offset / Calibration level setting from the Level Calibration menu on the MRX 1120:

For ARC Genesis 9006 version:

The values entered in the calibration level on the receiver has an inverse relationship on the measured level of each speaker in ARC Genesis. This affect shows up in both the quick measure and the full calibration runs. For example, when set at 0, my left front measures at 57 db. When set at -12, the same speaker measures at 69db.

This is very useful for the full calibration run, since ARC Genesis sets an overall target level at 75db. With measurements like my front left at 57, that means that Genesis runs out of room to reach the target and maxes out the level of that speaker at +12. It does the same for all of my speakers. By setting the calibration level to -12, there is enough headroom so that the Genesis can set the level where it needs to be without maxing out. I’m not sure why the max level on Genesis is +12, but that is the way it appears to be.


For ARC Genesis Beta 1.2.2.0 version:

The Dolby Offset / Calibration level setting on the receiver has no impact on the measured level in ARC Genesis. For me, that means that all of my speakers get maxed out at +12 as Genesis tries to hit the 75db target. No idea why this works differently, but this also did not work in the 9105 version.

So, what to do. I took the relative differences in my speaker settings from the 9006 runs and manually adjusted the levels from the 1.2.2.0 run. For example, my center speaker measures 2b lower than the left/right mains.

Next, I listened to both the 9006 run and 1.2.2.0 run for several movie scenes and lots of music. I would listen to a track on one version and then load the other and then listen to the same track again.

Despite the problem with setting levels, I determined that for my setup, the 1.2.2.0 version sounded better. It was not a dramatic difference and both sounded good, but it was a noticeable difference. The bass seemed tighter and the center channel dialogue was clearer and easier to understand. The surrounds and height effects were also a a bit more pronounced.

I have no idea why I am getting this level issue. Most of my gear comes from the same company (Anthem receiver and Paradigm Prestige speakers). I do have SVS subs and height speakers along with one set of RBH ceiling mounted heights. When I called Anthem, they said that the measured levels were accurate and denied that there was any impact from the calibration level and the Genesis measurements. They are wrong about that last thing. I ran the tests many times and it is easy to see the impact using the quick measure function in ARC (on the 9006 version).

I’m going to report this test result to them again next week and see what they say. I do hope they fix this issue in some future version. For now, I’ll just use the manual adjustment method to keep my relative levels correct.

I hope this information is helpful and will save someone from pulling their hair out (like I have been doing).
I don't know why the measurement would be different from version to version of Genesis. The mic placement might cause a difference but the software should always be the same.

If the mic is not moved the measurement from Genesis to Genesis version should stay consistent. Has anyone tried measuring in the same spot with different version of software?

Am I wrong on why it should be different?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
First, a confession: I have not read this whole 38 pages thread.

My question is, what IS the ARC Genesis? How does it work?
- My understanding of the Audyssey and Dirac systems is they are time based, presumably reconvolving the digital data to try and hit a target impulse response (though I've never seen this explained too clearly).
- My understanding of MCACC, YPAO, etc is they are basically automated parametric equalizers, which can work fine sometimes but is not as powerful for some acoustic situations.
- My assumption (due to zero technical explanation that I've found) is that ARC Genesis is an automated parametric system.
Does anyone know for sure? (Including the other systems, which also have a dearth of deep technical information).
You might want to start here:

https://www.anthemarc.com/advanced-t...nce-of-arc.php

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post #1128 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 08:37 AM
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Step-By-Step Guide: MiniDSP 2x4 HD, dual subwoofers and ARC Genesis

I AM semi-experienced, BUT . . .

I am seeking a Step-By-Step Guide for Dummies (me!) that will instruct me how to set-up my newly purchased MiniDSP 2x4 HD with my dual subwoofers (SVS SB-16 Ultra’s) and ARC Genesis. I have utilized the search tool of this thread and elsewhere in the AVSForum and have, of course, found various posts with helpful bits and pieces of the procedure.

But what I am seeking is a very thorough Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, etc. . . . of what to do first and in what order with each piece of gear, 1). the miniDSP 2x4 HD, 2). each of my subwoofers, 3.) ARC Genesis via Anthem AVM-60 etc etc.

I have had an Anthem D2, D2v and/or AVM-60 in my system for well over a decade and I have utilized ARC since version 1. Currently, my ARC setup is and has been via ARC-2 because I have been waiting for the “beta dust” to settle before switching to ARC Genesis and for the past year I’ve devoted most of my “AV upgraditus” to improving my media room’s video instead of audio.

I suspect there are others who would benefit from this also. Could be a “sticky” at the front of this thread.

Anyone willing to take a stab at this?

If you feel you have the knowledge and write-up ability, please send me a private email and quote me a fee.

Chris
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Originally Posted by cargen View Post
I AM semi-experienced, BUT . . .

I am seeking a Step-By-Step Guide for Dummies (me!) that will instruct me how to set-up my newly purchased MiniDSP 2x4 HD with my dual subwoofers (SVS SB-16 Ultra’s) and ARC Genesis. I have utilized the search tool of this thread and elsewhere in the AVSForum and have, of course, found various posts with helpful bits and pieces of the procedure.

But what I am seeking is a very thorough Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, etc. . . . of what to do first and in what order with each piece of gear, 1). the miniDSP 2x4 HD, 2). each of my subwoofers, 3.) ARC Genesis via Anthem AVM-60 etc etc.

I have had an Anthem D2, D2v and/or AVM-60 in my system for well over a decade and I have utilized ARC since version 1. Currently, my ARC setup is and has been via ARC-2 because I have been waiting for the “beta dust” to settle before switching to ARC Genesis and for the past year I’ve devoted most of my “AV upgraditus” to improving my media room’s video instead of audio.

I suspect there are others who would benefit from this also. Could be a “sticky” at the front of this thread.

Anyone willing to take a stab at this?

If you feel you have the knowledge and write-up ability, please send me a private email and quote me a fee.

Chris
This should help get you started..

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...k-through.html

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post #1130 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
I don't know why the measurement would be different from version to version of Genesis. The mic placement might cause a difference but the software should always be the same.

If the mic is not moved the measurement from Genesis to Genesis version should stay consistent. Has anyone tried measuring in the same spot with different version of software?

Am I wrong on why it should be different?
I tested exactly as you suggested. With the mic in one spot, I ran the quick measurement with the 9006 version and then with the 1.2.2.0 version. I did this several times to make sure that it was not a one time fluke. As mentioned, with the 9006 version, the calibration level setting on the receiver caused the measured level of the speaker to change. On the 1.2.2.0 version, the calibration level setting on the receiver had no affect on the measured level. I did this test multiple times with several different speakers, all without changing the mic location. There is definitely something different between these two versions of the software (at least in my system). There is one other person that reported the same thing some time back in this thread (about using the calibration level setting on the receiver to change the measured level of the speakers). I don't know which version that person was using, but this is the same behavior. In addition to the quick measure, I did the full ARC run with 5 measurement locations and saw the same differences. I used the same 5 locations for each of the test runs.

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post #1131 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
That is all on you and YMMV by the effort you put into it. No matter what you do the Anthem will always see your sub/s as one sub and make the appropriate calibration for it.

I like it this way for I use a miniDSP HD to make all the adjustments and alignments needed for them all(I have 4 subs) to work together making the Anthem see them as one "phantom" sub.
This yields fantastic bass!!!! across all 6 seats in both rows with barely a db of difference.
I hope that my 1120 will room correct for dual subs "good enough" without the need for spending extra $$, but I would consider it. Would I be able to tell if a miniDSP (or REW) would be beneficial by looking at a graph produced by ARC?

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post #1132 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 01:14 PM
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I've noticed the same this as several of you. The Dolby Offset/Calibration in the Level Calibration screen no longer has any effect on anything with Beta 1.2.2.0. I emailed Anthem this afternoon about it and hopefully it's fixed and the beta isn't promoted to release with this issue like 9105 was promoted to release with bugs.

Other than that 1.2.2.0 sounds really really good (too me).

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post #1133 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 03:51 PM
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I hope that my 1120 will room correct for dual subs "good enough" without the need for spending extra $$, but I would consider it. Would I be able to tell if a miniDSP (or REW) would be beneficial by looking at a graph produced by ARC?
If the results look good in the ARC report, no compelling reason to go further.

If the subwoofer results are not so good, REW will not tell you much more. The factors to consider are
1) what's the nature of the unsatisfactory result -- dips? peaks/bumps??
2) where are the subs in the room?
3) where are the walls in the room?
4) where is the main seat?

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post #1134 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 05:01 PM
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Do the distances that we manually enter effect or actually do anything in ARC?

1) JVC RS540, Monolith HTP-1, Outlaw Audio 7700 & 7140, Wharfedale Jade 7's series speakers, RSL C34e(Atmos)
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post #1135 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
I hope that my 1120 will room correct for dual subs "good enough" without the need for spending extra $$, but I would consider it. Would I be able to tell if a miniDSP (or REW) would be beneficial by looking at a graph produced by ARC?
Watch this video... I'm sure it'll help you understand in more detail what it takes and how much you can benefit from a miniDSP HD-2x4 when setting up your subs.

I have 4 identical subs in a completely symmetrical very
well sound treated dedicated theater. I thought my subs sounded fantastic without the miniDSP 2x4HD....boy was I wrong.!

I used this video to the Tee.... I've never experienced bass like I have now.

Take the time to at least watch the video...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...k-through.html
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Do the distances that we manually enter effect or actually do anything in ARC?
Yes...well its supposed to help time align you speakers/sub/s to the main LP....

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post #1137 of 2062 Old 02-10-2020, 07:55 PM
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Yes...well its supposed to help time align you speakers/sub/s to the main LP....
Ok,

I was just wondering if it did that, since it's not doing it on its own like some other EQs.

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post #1138 of 2062 Old 02-11-2020, 09:17 AM
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Tried out the 1.2.2.0 beta today. Ran the sweeps twice and both times the levels on all speakers maxed out to +12. I had this happen on an earlier version and was able to correct it by setting the Dolby Offset / Calibration level to a low number (like -6 or -9). That would result in getting speaker levels lower than the max of +12 and I could see different levels across my 9 speakers and 2 subs. With the beta, everything is maxed out at the same level, so I’m losing the relative differences in levels (at least according to previous versions). The Dolby Offset thing doesn’t appear to be having any affect with this version. I changed the levels to match previous versions and am listening to the results. Sounds pretty good, but it bugs me that I am having to manually change levels. Does anyone know what is causing this or what I am doing wrong?

I’ve got things set up in a 5.2.4 configuration. The five mains are Paradigm Prestige and the 4 height speakers and 2 subs are SVS. My receiver is the MRX 1120.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Your subwoofer level could be set way too high and ARC is having to max your main speakers to try and level match to them? That is my only thought outside of it actually being a firmware problem.

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post #1139 of 2062 Old 02-12-2020, 01:04 PM
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Dolby Offset / Calibration Level setting affect on ARC Genesis
For ARC Genesis Beta 1.2.2.0 version:

The Dolby Offset / Calibration level setting on the receiver has no impact on the measured level in ARC Genesis. For me, that means that all of my speakers get maxed out at +12 as Genesis tries to hit the 75db target. No idea why this works differently, but this also did not work in the 9105 version.
I wrote Anthem and they replied:
Quote:
The Dolby Offset/Calibration level was disabled in ARC 9105 and 1220 as a fix for a bug that was setting calibration levels incorrectly.
For me with version 1220 ( I never loaded 9105) changing the Dolby Offset/Calibration level did absolutely nothing. When I would change it my tones they would stay the same volume and would not increase or decrease when changing the value from -12 to +12. Then all of a sudden I tried it again last night and now it works and increases and decreases the volume level of the tones.calibration.

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Last edited by Legairre; 02-12-2020 at 01:12 PM.
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post #1140 of 2062 Old 02-12-2020, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
I wrote Anthem and they replied:
For me with version 1220 ( I never loaded 9105) changing the Dolby Offset/Calibration level did absolutely nothing. When I would change it my tones they would stay the same volume and would not increase or decrease when changing the value from -12 to +12. Then all of a sudden I tried it again last night and now it works and increases and decreases the volume level of the tones.calibration.
Anthem replied:
The Dolby Offset/Calibration level was disabled in ARC 9105 and 1220 as a fix for a bug that was setting calibration levels incorrectly.


This is consistent with my testing and makes sense. Now, I just need to figure out why my Paradigm 85Fs are measuring at only 57db in ARC. With a target level of 75, that is 18db off and there is only an adjustment of 12 available. I get about the same reading for my 45c. The 25s surrounds measure a bit higher (about 62), still well below the target level.

FYI, I get this even with the quick measure of individual speakers so I don't think it is the sub level (but I will try playing with that and see if it changes anything). On the subs, when I run the full calibration, if they are set too loud, it makes me turn them down...

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