Dedicated ARC Genesis thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 200Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #151 of 709 Old 06-10-2019, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Subs & Genesis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
As WLC indicated, Genesis seems to do a good job integrating subs. I might add that in addition to gain or level matching, there is a ton to be gained by running REW measurements on your subs before running ARC to place your subs in the best positions and then time align them to act coherently as one single low frequency source. In my case, using 3 subs without REW, there was a dip in my subwoofer response that kept fooling Genesis into thinking the subs were rolling off around 40Hz. Using REW, I was able to time align the 3 subs for a smoother response, and then Genesis saw solid output down below 20Hz.

In addition, I used REW after running Genesis to adjust the subwoofer distance so the response at the crossover (80Hz in my case) summed the best between mains and subs. I ended up needed to add a few feet to the sub distance. This improved things further in the 60-100 Hz region.

I would highly recommend the process below if you are looking for that last 20% improvement beyond what Room Correction can do.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ow-thread.html
I also used REW when adjusting gain on my subs, looking for the flattest frequency response. I had previously used the common technique of adjusting gain looking for the best db addition. Ed Mullen had suggested the flat response as superior and, unsurprisingly, he was correct in my set-up.
I also used REW post Genesis testing for sub distance and flattest fr. My actual mean of the 4 sub distances is 12. I tested between 10 and 25ft. 22 ft. provided the flattest fr.
So, I concur, Bittermidget's additional suggestions also worked for me.
WLC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 709 Old 06-10-2019, 09:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bluecow003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccondo1 View Post
For those of you with 2+ subs, are you happy with Genesis? I’m thinking of making the switch from YPAO and I’m looking for a room correction platform that will get the most out of my system. I have a dedicated acoustically treated theater but a mix of speakers (Revel PerformaBe fronts, Revel Peforma3 surrounds and center, Polk in ceiling for Atmos and Hsu 15” subs). I’m looking for a platform to maximize my setup. Thoughts? Unsure if I should wait for something that individually calibrates subs or jump on the 20% off promo. I’d very much appreciate any insight, thanks.

ARC won't time align the individual subs with each other, so you'll need a miniDSP to do that before running ARC if you want the best possible result (that's assuming the subs aren't an identical distance from the MLP, if they are then a miniDSP may not be necessary although it's a useful tool for other things). Assuming you give ARC a good baseline to work with (gain matched subs and time aligned), then ARC does a great job of integrating subs into the overall system. Also, ARC has a Quick Measure tool that is super helpful for placing the subs in the optical location. It sends out a constant sound signal with real time updates to the frequency response so you can quickly see how any location adjustments you make affect the frequency response. It really makes a difference since it's not always obvious where the best sub locations might be without doing that. Sure, there are ways to estimate it ahead of time with some calculators out there, but there is nothing better than actual measurements since every room is slightly different.
Bittermidget likes this.

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
Bluecow003 is offline  
post #153 of 709 Old 06-10-2019, 12:59 PM
Member
 
Ccondo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I have my subs are both placed at 1/4 width mark along the front wall. Theater symmetrically laid out. I have used REW but I find it complicated. Is there any information I can glean from my current Yamaha 3050?
Ccondo1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #154 of 709 Old 06-10-2019, 01:44 PM
Senior Member
 
vodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Genesis is good for multisubs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccondo1 View Post
For those of you with 2+ subs, are you happy with Genesis? I’m thinking of making the switch from YPAO and I’m looking for a room correction platform that will get the most out of my system. I have a dedicated acoustically treated theater but a mix of speakers (Revel PerformaBe fronts, Revel Peforma3 surrounds and center, Polk in ceiling for Atmos and Hsu 15” subs). I’m looking for a platform to maximize my setup. Thoughts? Unsure if I should wait for something that individually calibrates subs or jump on the 20% off promo. I’d very much appreciate any insight, thanks.
I have 2 different subs and I can use the Quick Measure feature to tune them into an effective combination. First thing I set the gain on each one to give me 75 dB at the MLP. (If there are multiple MLPs then set the gains to average 75 dB.) If there are holes in the frequency spectrum, I use any on-board EQ to fill them narrowly. ARC will do the broad spectrum correction better, if there are no big dips.


An important addition is to phase match to get the best combined result. ARC does this for crossover using the distance to subwoofer setting. What I do is set that distance to the closest (or hardest to adjust) sub and set that phase to zero. Then I use quick measure to find the phase adjustment on the other one that leads to the flattest spectrum near and below 80Hz. (For me that is a 40 deg difference). Phase does not matter much at the low end of a sub as the wavelength is much longer than any separation distance in the room, but above 33Hz it can impact that way the two subs combine.

Lock in those settings and run ARC.
Works well enough for me that I could try using deep bass boost, but don't really know whether I should or what it will do.

====
MRX1120, Oppo 203, LG & Samsung HDR, XboneS, Xfinity X1, Harmony
vodil is offline  
post #155 of 709 Old 06-10-2019, 02:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bluecow003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by vodil View Post
I have 2 different subs and I can use the Quick Measure feature to tune them into an effective combination. First thing I set the gain on each one to give me 75 dB at the MLP. (If there are multiple MLPs then set the gains to average 75 dB.) If there are holes in the frequency spectrum, I use any on-board EQ to fill them narrowly. ARC will do the broad spectrum correction better, if there are no big dips.


An important addition is to phase match to get the best combined result. ARC does this for crossover using the distance to subwoofer setting. What I do is set that distance to the closest (or hardest to adjust) sub and set that phase to zero. Then I use quick measure to find the phase adjustment on the other one that leads to the flattest spectrum near and below 80Hz. (For me that is a 40 deg difference). Phase does not matter much at the low end of a sub as the wavelength is much longer than any separation distance in the room, but above 33Hz it can impact that way the two subs combine.

Lock in those settings and run ARC.
Works well enough for me that I could try using deep bass boost, but don't really know whether I should or what it will do.

That's right, instead of using a miniDSP to time align the subs you could essentially just use the physical Phase delay setting on one of the subs itself to do basically the same thing. It would probably be technically more accurate to do it with REW and a miniDSP, but using the Phase delay setting would probably still get close enough.

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
Bluecow003 is offline  
post #156 of 709 Old 06-11-2019, 09:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1274 Post(s)
Liked: 788
Something that I never have understood with ARC.

I could run Genesis 4 times with the mic positions in the same positions, and I'd get 3 or 4 different different subwoofer low extensio slope settings. It's a crapshoot of which order I get set to (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th).

With ARC-2, I usually got 3rd or 4th. With Genesis, it's usually 1st or 2nd, maybe 3rd.

Why the inconsistency? In other measurements like crossovers and channel levels, it's very consistent. But not in sub settings. They end to vary.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
Erod is offline  
post #157 of 709 Old 06-13-2019, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 163
4 Deep Bass Settings

If anyone is interested, I have attached REW graphs showing 4 different Deep Bass Boost Settings. I have 4 SVS SB16 Ultras. All of the Boosts start at 40hz. There is no boost, +2, +4 and +6. From 40 down you see approximately the expected change. However, there are also changes above 40hz. and all the way up to about 53 hz, the more boost the higher the dbs. The crossover is at 80hz, and there is the additional oddity of a drop in the graph with no added boost at approximately 72hz.
In addition, because I followed the instructions from the Subwoofer Threads before Genesis, I experimented with lowering my sub calibration from +6 to -4 and raising each sub by 10 dbs. This follows the general recommendation that it is better to have the sub amps doing the work. I then compared the two REW graphs. There is absolutely no difference in my room. If I had included this comparison, you would not be able to see it because one graph completely overlays the other. I can't be sure, but I believe this change has resulted in a modest improvement in the quality of the bass. Again, perhaps I'm just imagining it. Anybody else interested in trying this?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	REW with 4 deep bass settings.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	101.3 KB
ID:	2579562  
WLC is offline  
post #158 of 709 Old 06-13-2019, 01:05 PM
Member
 
Bittermidget's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post
If anyone is interested, I have attached REW graphs showing 4 different Deep Bass Boost Settings. I have 4 SVS SB16 Ultras. All of the Boosts start at 40hz. There is no boost, +2, +4 and +6. From 40 down you see approximately the expected change. However, there are also changes above 40hz. and all the way up to about 53 hz, the more boost the higher the dbs. The crossover is at 80hz, and there is the additional oddity of a drop in the graph with no added boost at approximately 72hz.
In addition, because I followed the instructions from the Subwoofer Threads before Genesis, I experimented with lowering my sub calibration from +6 to -4 and raising each sub by 10 dbs. This follows the general recommendation that it is better to have the sub amps doing the work. I then compared the two REW graphs. There is absolutely no difference in my room. If I had included this comparison, you would not be able to see it because one graph completely overlays the other. I can't be sure, but I believe this change has resulted in a modest improvement in the quality of the bass. Again, perhaps I'm just imagining it. Anybody else interested in trying this?
Just curious...when you took these measurements with the various deep bass boost levels, is your Genesis room gain value at 0 or do you also have any room gain included in these measurements?

And thanks for posting these. Give a nice visual of what the setting is doing around and below your selected deep bass boost frequency.

JVC DLA-X790R, Seymour AV Centerstage UF 2.40:1 tensioned electric screen w/ motorized masking, Anthem AVM 60, Jim Holtz Statements L/C/R, SVS SB-16 Ultra (X2), Oppo UDP-203, Parasound Halo A-21, Parasound Halo A-51, Bluesound Node 2i, miniDSP 2X4 HD, NVIDIA Shield 2015, QNAP 453Pro
Bittermidget is offline  
post #159 of 709 Old 06-13-2019, 06:58 PM
Member
 
simpjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Question about room gain....when I run arc, room gain is set to 2. What should I expect it I lower to 0? Or raise to 3 or 4?

Thx
simpjr is offline  
post #160 of 709 Old 06-13-2019, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Graphs and Room Gain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
Just curious...when you took these measurements with the various deep bass boost levels, is your Genesis room gain value at 0 or do you also have any room gain included in these measurements?

And thanks for posting these. Give a nice visual of what the setting is doing around and below your selected deep bass boost frequency.
Genesis gives me room gain of 3. As you know, that value is added to the calibration level that Genesis originally says for your subwoofers. In my case, that is 3. So, Genesis and the AVM60 set my subwoofer calibration level at +6. That is the sub calibration level that is included in the graphs.
Although, as I stated, I have lowered it to -4 and raised my subwoofer volumes by 10. As you would hope theoretically, the graphs are identical.
Still hope some people try that and report their impressions.
WLC is offline  
post #161 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 04:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
mitchlampert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 570
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 44
A question about mic placement for measurements. In the Genesis manual it says take measurements in an X pattern with the center at MLP. Also to vary the height for the rear vs front positions. Then I read the great thread, Guide to Sub setup (abbreviated) and it recommends using this:

2--------1---------3
-----7--------8-----

---------6-----------

4-------------------5


And NOT varying the height of the mic. Has anyone experimented with this pattern? I know he's describing Audyssey and this is Genesis but they should be comparable.
mitchlampert is online now  
post #162 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Mic placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
A question about mic placement for measurements. In the Genesis manual it says take measurements in an X pattern with the center at MLP. Also to vary the height for the rear vs front positions. Then I read the great thread, Guide to Sub setup (abbreviated) and it recommends using this:

2--------1---------3
-----7--------8-----

---------6-----------

4-------------------5


And NOT varying the height of the mic. Has anyone experimented with this pattern? I know he's describing Audyssey and this is Genesis but they should be comparable.
I have 2 theater seats with love seats perpendicular on both sides towards the screen. The love seats are normally covered in black velvet and only uncovered when we have guests for several days. So, the only seats we care about are the theater seats. (We let our guests sit in them) When I first ran ARC, I followed the directions about an x pattern with 2 measurements behind the theater seats (they are always fully reclined with comforters over them when measuring) and got such poor results I immediately thought of sending the AVM60 back. I then tried doing all 5 measurements in front of the MLP and have been happy with the results since. With Genesis, I have run the 5 measurements both with a single height and with varied heights and have seen no audible or graph difference.
mitchlampert likes this.
WLC is offline  
post #163 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 05:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
mitchlampert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 570
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Also, why can't we have phase measurements included for us AVM-60 owners?
mitchlampert is online now  
post #164 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
 
shs1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central Sierra Nevada
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchlampert View Post
A question about mic placement for measurements. In the Genesis manual it says take measurements in an X pattern with the center at MLP. Also to vary the height for the rear vs front positions. Then I read the great thread, Guide to Sub setup (abbreviated) and it recommends using this:

2--------1---------3
-----7--------8-----

---------6-----------

4-------------------5


And NOT varying the height of the mic. Has anyone experimented with this pattern? I know he's describing Audyssey and this is Genesis but they should be comparable.
With ARC 2, and I think it is the same with Genesis, the first measurement is the most important and it is critical that it represents the MLP(s). I learned this the hard way with my first set of ARC2 measurements where the software said that my system was not capable of being calibrated at 75 dB and instead lowered the target level to 65 dB. I was shocked as I have a gazillion watts of power available.

Looking at the individual curves revealed the true problem. My wife and I have two chairs in the front row of our home theater and we have a 3 seat sofa behind. I obviously wanted to use mic positions for my wife’s and my chair and some in the back row, but to balance the measurements in an X pattern around our MLPs, I did the first measurement in the center of the room just ahead of the chairs in the first row. Unfortunately, this position happened to be a null in the room modes at about 40 Hz and in this most critical first measurement position there was a huge dip in the subwoofer response at 40 Hz. ARC2 therefore concluded that the system was not cable of reaching reference levels. Once I figured this out, with the help of Anthem tech support, I did my first measurement in the next run at a real MLP, my chair, not an average MLP between and ahead of our two chairs and all was well.

The point is that measurements on the centerline of the room may not be representative of other seating areas and so unless that location is indeed the MLP, likely don’t use it for your first measurement. It is obviously very useful to use the curve viewer in ARC2 to see how similar or different the various mic positions measure. That is the only way to know how well ARC is doing for all the seating positions in the room. I haven’t had the time to use Genesis yet, but hope to soon, but I am sure the same considerations apply.
johnnygrandis likes this.

SONY VPL-VW385ES, Da-Lite 92" 0.9 HD progressive 16x9 screen, Apple TV 4K, HDFury Integral 2, Oppo UDP 203, Panasonic DP-UB820, Anthem AVM 60, D-Sonic 4000 (800x3, 400x4) for bed layer, 2 Crown XLS 1002 (225x4) for Atmos; Speakers: Polk LSiM 705s, 703 front, 4 702F/X surround, 4 Polk TL3 (Atmos), Dual Velodyne DD15 Subwoofers.
shs1234 is offline  
post #165 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 03:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Rico66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
The point is that measurements on the centerline of the room may not be representative of other seating areas and so unless that location is indeed the MLP, likely don’t use it for your first measurement. It is obviously very useful to use the curve viewer in ARC2 to see how similar or different the various mic positions measure. That is the only way to know how well ARC is doing for all the seating positions in the room. I haven’t had the time to use Genesis yet, but hope to soon, but I am sure the same considerations apply.

The great thing with ARC is certainly that you can do multiple dfferent measurements and then compare results - not just comparing curves, but also check how it sounds.
Rico66 is offline  
post #166 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 06:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1274 Post(s)
Liked: 788
What order is Genesis setting your subs at?

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
Erod is offline  
post #167 of 709 Old 06-14-2019, 10:59 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
I'm having an issue with my AVM60 implementing ARC Genesis crossover and speaker level adjustments. I have the most current version of ARC Genesis (non-beta) and AVM60 firmware. I have uploaded the .arc3 file using Mac as well as Windows running on a Mac with Bootcamp. In each case, the upload completes successfully and I verified the date/time of the ARC calibration file being used in the AVM setup menu. So everything looks good until I check crossover and speaker level adjustments. For example, the subwoofer level should be -3 but shows as +1 in the AVM60 menu. Same thing for speaker levels for all speakers. The crossover frequency also doesn't match the calibration file. Has anyone had such an issue or have an idea what the issue may be? I forwarded an email to Anthem a couple of days ago along with the .arc3 file but no response yet.

Sony 665es 4K Projector; SI Black Diamond 133"
Anthem AVM60 Pre-Pro; Anthem 525 and 325 Amps
Oppo UDP-203 4K UHD Blu Ray Player, Roku Ultra, Apple TV4, PS4
Paradigm Persona 3F (fronts), Paradigm Prestige 45C center, Bryston Mini A (rears), M&K IW-95 (surrounds), dual PSA S3010 subs
creasyb001 is offline  
post #168 of 709 Old 06-15-2019, 05:04 AM
Member
 
Bittermidget's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by creasyb001 View Post
I'm having an issue with my AVM60 implementing ARC Genesis crossover and speaker level adjustments. I have the most current version of ARC Genesis (non-beta) and AVM60 firmware. I have uploaded the .arc3 file using Mac as well as Windows running on a Mac with Bootcamp. In each case, the upload completes successfully and I verified the date/time of the ARC calibration file being used in the AVM setup menu. So everything looks good until I check crossover and speaker level adjustments. For example, the subwoofer level should be -3 but shows as +1 in the AVM60 menu. Same thing for speaker levels for all speakers. The crossover frequency also doesn't match the calibration file. Has anyone had such an issue or have an idea what the issue may be? I forwarded an email to Anthem a couple of days ago along with the .arc3 file but no response yet.
For the subwoofer level, keep in mind that in the Genesis application, it will show you a value for subwoofer level (let's say it's -1). Then look at the room gain value that Genesis detected and applied to your system wide levels (let's say it's 3.0). When you then open the menu on the AVM60 and check the sub level, you should see that the level is sub level + room gain. In my example, take -1 + 3 = 2.

Based on YOUR numbers, I would expect to see room gain at 4 (-3 + 4 = +1) to give you +1 as the value you see in the AVM menu.

I'm not sure what you mean by your question about "same thing for speaker levels for all speakers".

Finally, the crossover frequency shown in the AVM menu for the subwoofer will almost always be higher than what you are probably expecting if you're thinking it should be around the value of your mains/sub crossover point. The sub crossover value in the AVM60 menu is basically telling you how high in frequency the sub is allowed to play to help provide bass for the LFE channel and bass for any channels with higher crossover values like surrounds and atmos. As long as the crossover frequency values for all of your (non-sub) channels match between Genesis and the AVM60 menu, then Genesis did import the proper crossovers into the AVM60.

JVC DLA-X790R, Seymour AV Centerstage UF 2.40:1 tensioned electric screen w/ motorized masking, Anthem AVM 60, Jim Holtz Statements L/C/R, SVS SB-16 Ultra (X2), Oppo UDP-203, Parasound Halo A-21, Parasound Halo A-51, Bluesound Node 2i, miniDSP 2X4 HD, NVIDIA Shield 2015, QNAP 453Pro
Bittermidget is offline  
post #169 of 709 Old 06-15-2019, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Changed my bass settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post
Because I followed the instructions from the Subwoofer Threads before Genesis, I experimented with lowering my sub calibration from +6 to -4 and raising each sub by 10 dbs. This follows the general recommendation that it is better to have the sub amps doing the work. I then compared the two REW graphs. There is absolutely no difference in my room. If I had included this comparison, you would not be able to see it because one graph completely overlays the other. I can't be sure, but I believe this change has resulted in a modest improvement in the quality of the bass. Again, perhaps I'm just imagining it. Anybody else interested in trying this?
Despite the apparent lack of interest in this topic, I wanted to write a correction. After 2 days, I realized that the above setting was not as good as the original. So I put the sub calibration back to +6 and reduced the sub volumes by 10. However, still inspired by the sub threads, I experimented further and settled on adding 3 db to the subs. Even though Genesis was terrific with the original calibration, I find that adding the 3 dbs to the subs has given me exactly what I've been searching for.
anilpani and Newbie789 like this.
WLC is offline  
post #170 of 709 Old 06-16-2019, 07:57 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post
For the subwoofer level, keep in mind that in the Genesis application, it will show you a value for subwoofer level (let's say it's -1). Then look at the room gain value that Genesis detected and applied to your system wide levels (let's say it's 3.0). When you then open the menu on the AVM60 and check the sub level, you should see that the level is sub level + room gain. In my example, take -1 + 3 = 2.

Based on YOUR numbers, I would expect to see room gain at 4 (-3 + 4 = +1) to give you +1 as the value you see in the AVM menu.

I'm not sure what you mean by your question about "same thing for speaker levels for all speakers".

Finally, the crossover frequency shown in the AVM menu for the subwoofer will almost always be higher than what you are probably expecting if you're thinking it should be around the value of your mains/sub crossover point. The sub crossover value in the AVM60 menu is basically telling you how high in frequency the sub is allowed to play to help provide bass for the LFE channel and bass for any channels with higher crossover values like surrounds and atmos. As long as the crossover frequency values for all of your (non-sub) channels match between Genesis and the AVM60 menu, then Genesis did import the proper crossovers into the AVM60.
Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Genesis adjusts the sub gain as you described. Regarding the sub crossover, should the subwoofer "High-Frequency Extension" in Genesis read the same as the subwoofer crossover in the AVM60 menu? The ARC Genesis calibration shows 150Hz but the AVM60 menu shows 120Hz.

Sony 665es 4K Projector; SI Black Diamond 133"
Anthem AVM60 Pre-Pro; Anthem 525 and 325 Amps
Oppo UDP-203 4K UHD Blu Ray Player, Roku Ultra, Apple TV4, PS4
Paradigm Persona 3F (fronts), Paradigm Prestige 45C center, Bryston Mini A (rears), M&K IW-95 (surrounds), dual PSA S3010 subs
creasyb001 is offline  
post #171 of 709 Old 06-16-2019, 08:11 AM
Member
 
Bittermidget's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by creasyb001 View Post
Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Genesis adjusts the sub gain as you described. Regarding the sub crossover, should the subwoofer "High-Frequency Extension" in Genesis read the same as the subwoofer crossover in the AVM60 menu? The ARC Genesis calibration shows 150Hz but the AVM60 menu shows 120Hz.
Yes. That is normal. Genesis shows extension up to 190Hz in my ARC file, but the AVM menu shows 120 as the crossover. Nothing to be concerned about.

JVC DLA-X790R, Seymour AV Centerstage UF 2.40:1 tensioned electric screen w/ motorized masking, Anthem AVM 60, Jim Holtz Statements L/C/R, SVS SB-16 Ultra (X2), Oppo UDP-203, Parasound Halo A-21, Parasound Halo A-51, Bluesound Node 2i, miniDSP 2X4 HD, NVIDIA Shield 2015, QNAP 453Pro
Bittermidget is offline  
post #172 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 05:08 AM
Member
 
Ccondo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Got my AVM 60 and set it up over the weekend. I am in love. My theater has never sounded better. For movies, the biggest difference is how well all speakers integrate to create a 3D sound field and not just a collection of speakers where the sound bounces around. What surprised me the most is how much I liked it for 2 channel and 2.1 channel music listening. So much so, I'm going to pull my PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC from the chain and sell it. Which brings me to a question? Can I just use and SPL meter and measure loudness before and use manually adjust the level calibration after to dial it back in or do you all think I should redo the whole process?
Ccondo1 is offline  
post #173 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 06:30 AM
Member
 
Ccondo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 20
One more question... What are most folks setting their max eq at? I’ve decided to go with 500hz.
Ccondo1 is offline  
post #174 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 163
DAC , Maximum EQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccondo1 View Post
One more question... What are most folks setting their max eq at? I’ve decided to go with 500hz.
Pulling the DAC seems like a significant change. I have a Bryston DAC in my stereo and it made a very large difference in the sound. Although I use DIRAC in my stereo, if I pulled the DAC (I can't imagine doing so), I'd definitely re-run the calibration.

Having tried many different Max EQ levels, I've settled on 5Khz. The improved integration and seamlessness of the sound stage is palpable.
WLC is offline  
post #175 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 10:25 AM
Member
 
Ccondo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post
Pulling the DAC seems like a significant change. I have a Bryston DAC in my stereo and it made a very large difference in the sound. Although I use DIRAC in my stereo, if I pulled the DAC (I can't imagine doing so), I'd definitely re-run the calibration.

Having tried many different Max EQ levels, I've settled on 5Khz. The improved integration and seamlessness of the sound stage is palpable.
To clarify, when running home theater, my PS Audio DAC/preamp goes into bypass mode. I spent a few hours directly comparing my favorite tracks while quickly switching my Roon output to the Anthem (bypass mode on PS Audio) and Roon directly to PS Audio. I found the former to be a bit more open. The PS Audio does not do room correction so perhaps I preferred the Anthem for 2 channel because it fixed a 100hz frequency response dip...?
Ccondo1 is offline  
post #176 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 10:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1274 Post(s)
Liked: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccondo1 View Post
One more question... What are most folks setting their max eq at? I’ve decided to go with 500hz.
That's what I did with ARC-2 because it sounded much better set somewhere between 300-800 Hz.

However, with Genesis, I'm using 5kHz because the dynamics are still very much there. The correction is no longer stifling the mids.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
Erod is offline  
post #177 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 10:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1274 Post(s)
Liked: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccondo1 View Post
Got my AVM 60 and set it up over the weekend. I am in love. My theater has never sounded better. For movies, the biggest difference is how well all speakers integrate to create a 3D sound field and not just a collection of speakers where the sound bounces around. What surprised me the most is how much I liked it for 2 channel and 2.1 channel music listening. So much so, I'm going to pull my PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC from the chain and sell it. Which brings me to a question? Can I just use and SPL meter and measure loudness before and use manually adjust the level calibration after to dial it back in or do you all think I should redo the whole process?
When you run Genesis, you can set up a profile for just your L/R and subwoofers, and it'll run extra set of sweeps for those. I haven't done it, but I know you can.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
Erod is offline  
post #178 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 11:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bluecow003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
When you run Genesis, you can set up a profile for just your L/R and subwoofers, and it'll run extra set of sweeps for those. I haven't done it, but I know you can.

You don't need to run a separate sweep just for that. You can setup multiple profiles that each use different speaker configurations if you want from just the one set of measurements you took (assuming all of the equipment in total remains the same of course). So you can create a profile that only uses L/R and subs if you want at the same that you setup another surround sound profile.

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's
Bluecow003 is offline  
post #179 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 12:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1274 Post(s)
Liked: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
You don't need to run a separate sweep just for that. You can setup multiple profiles that each use different speaker configurations if you want from just the one set of measurements you took (assuming all of the equipment in total remains the same of course). So you can create a profile that only uses L/R and subs if you want at the same that you setup another surround sound profile.
Then why does ARC try to re-run sweeps when you set up a profile that differs on the front end? If you set up a 11.1, a 5.1, and a 2.1 profile, Genesis will run separate sweeps for all three I believe.

The calibrations its sets are likely different depending on what the speaker profile is asking specific speakers to do?

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
Erod is offline  
post #180 of 709 Old 06-17-2019, 01:02 PM
Member
 
Nikola Tesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Just a head's-up to those running the Genesis beta software ...

If you're running the v1108908 beta version, there is now a newer release, v1108972_beta. The EXE was built last Thursday, 13 JUN.

BGLeduc likes this.
Nikola Tesla is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
arc genesis , genesis

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off