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WLC 05-22-2019 05:30 AM

Dedicated ARC Genesis thread
 
Would it be appropriate to start a thread dedicated to ARC Genesis? There is much discussion in the sub section about Audyssey and there is a dedicated thread to it under receivers, amps, etc. Before ARC genesis, I found these discussions very helpful in adjusting ARC 2, however they don't really seem to apply much to ARC genesis.
Although I am happy with the initial results from ARC Genesis, I am also interested in trying adjustments and learning what other users have tried and what their results are. For example, I don't really understand what the bass boost does and what the difference between adjusting it versus the volume in the subs would be.
So, if there is interest in such a thread, is this the correct place for it?

Legairre 05-22-2019 07:15 AM

The Deep Bass Boost and the Deep Bass Boost Center Frequency work together and can be used to create a house curve. If you set the deep bass boost to say 6dB and the deep bass boost center frequency to say 50Hz you'll see a house curve starting at 50Hz that slowly increases to a max of 6dB down to 15Hz. A house curve is very helpful because as bass frequencies get lower we hear them less so increasing the bass at lower frequencies give a nice punch to movies.

WLC 05-22-2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58083306)
The Deep Bass Boost and the Deep Bass Boost Center Frequency work together and can be used to create a house curve. If you set the deep bass boost to say 6dB and the deep bass boost center frequency to say 50Hz you'll see a house curve starting at 50Hz that slowly increases to a max of 6dB down to 15Hz. A house curve is very helpful because as bass frequencies get lower we hear them less so increasing the bass at lower frequencies give a nice punch to movies.

Thanks. Very Helpful

bigdogaxis 05-22-2019 09:01 AM

I think a dedicated ARC Genesis thread is beneficial as there are multiple Anthem owner threads discussing this topic. Having a single thread will help ARC Genesis users reduce the learning curve substantially.

Legairre 05-22-2019 10:09 AM

There is a bug in Genesis with the Profiles and Measurements. Profile 1 is the profile that is always enabled and you cannot disable it. With Profile 1 if you have more than one Measurement and you change the drop down to say Measurement B and then look at your speaker levels and other setting like crossovers etc… you'll see that even though you changed Profile 1 to Measurement B all the settings are still showing the speaker levels, crossovers etc… for Measurement A.

Also after you upload you'll see on the level calibration and bass management screens in the MRX that it up loaded the Measurement A settings for Profile 1 even through you set the drop down to Measurement B in the Genesis Profile screen. With this bug you may think you're using Measurement B or other Measurement for Profile 1 but you are really using Measurement A.


Edit: I did some more checking and it's not just profile 1. If you change the measurement in the drop down of any profile all the settings are still from the previous profile even through the drop down shows you are using a new measurement.

WLC 05-22-2019 11:05 AM

Genesis Beta
 
Genesis beta is supposed to have solved the issue of calibrating speakers above 12. So, now my 3 speakers that were above 12 now all show as 12. How do I know that this actually fixed a problem in the algorithm and didn't just set an upper limit as to what is reported to the user? If it just changed what is reported, then the original version is better because it gives the additional information that can be used in adjusting the trims.
Anybody else have this question?

Legairre 05-22-2019 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58084630)
Genesis beta is supposed to have solved the issue of calibrating speakers above 12. So, now my 3 speakers that were above 12 now all show as 12. How do I know that this actually fixed a problem in the algorithm and didn't just set an upper limit as to what is reported to the user? If it just changed what is reported, then the original version is better because it gives the additional information that can be used in adjusting the trims.
Anybody else have this question?

Yeah they may have just set an upper limit to 12. I’m not sure how they can fix the upper limit of 12 without lowering the calibration level from 75 to maybe 72. All my speakers are below 12 so it’s not an issue for me but I ran the Genesis beta a few days ago and the calibration level is still 75 and every one of my speakers had the exact same level as they did before the beta.

WLC 05-22-2019 05:35 PM

Calibration levels
 
I think I'm just going to continue using the suggested calibrations from the original genesis to adjust the trims in the speakers that needed more than 12.
Disappointing inasmuch as the beta appears to just give less information.

Legairre 05-22-2019 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58086350)
I think I'm just going to continue using the suggested calibrations from the original genesis to adjust the trims in the speakers that needed more than 12.
Disappointing inasmuch as the beta appears to just give less information.

You may want to ask Anthem how the 12 limit works in the beta and tell them yours are maxed out at 12. Anthem gets back to you really quickly. The last time I had a question they replied in under 1 hour. https://www.anthemav.com/support/contact-us.php

WLC 05-23-2019 10:02 AM

Difference between Original & Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58086370)
You may want to ask Anthem how the 12 limit works in the beta and tell them yours are maxed out at 12. Anthem gets back to you really quickly. The last time I had a question they replied in under 1 hour. https://www.anthemav.com/support/contact-us.php

I wrote to Anthem and got a quick reply:

"Are your other channels, the ones not above +12 db, reduced as well by the same amount or are they still at the same level."

this response indicates to me that the Beta version gives less information than the original. I confirmed this by using my Radio Shack Soundmeter to determine that the levels suggested by the original correspond to the needed levels to get every speaker to 75db. If anyone is interested, this suggests to me that we are better off using the original because we can then use the information to adjust the trims accordingly.
I have also experimented with the bass boost. I have 4 SVSSB16Ultras. Because they are sealed, I have tried changing the bass boost to 40hz and adding 2, 4 or 6 dbs. In my large space, the additional 6 dbs seems to add a nice effect.
Although I am disappointed that there is little interest in this thread as a place to discuss Genesis, it still makes sense to me.

bigdogaxis 05-23-2019 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58088922)
Although I am disappointed that there is little interest in this thread as a place to discuss Genesis, it still makes sense to me.

I think it's more about awareness than interest. Maybe add a link to your signature so people see it.


Also, you might add links in Post 1 to ARC Genesis official DL and Beta DL as well as instruction/information DL from Anthem on how to use Genesis.

Legairre 05-23-2019 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58088922)
I wrote to Anthem and got a quick reply:

"Are your other channels, the ones not above +12 db, reduced as well by the same amount or are they still at the same level."

Anthem’s reply is a good question. What were the channel levels of the other speakers before and after Genesis Beta? Can you post the channel levels of genesis before and after the Beta?

WLC 05-23-2019 07:15 PM

Original vs Beta Calibration Levels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58089628)
Anthem’s reply is a good question. What were the channel levels of the other speakers before and after Genesis Beta? Can you post the channel levels of genesis before and after the Beta?

Sorry my post wasn't clearer

Original Beta
FL 12 12
C 11 11
FR 6 6
Sub 3 3
SR 14 12
BR 12 12
BL 13 12
SL 15 12

As you can see, the only channels that changed were the ones that were reduced to 12. As I stated, a radio shack meter determined that the original levels were correct. By restoring the Original version, I could then raise the trim levels accordingly.
That is why I suggest it is better to use the original rather than the beta.

Erod 05-23-2019 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58091282)
Sorry my post wasn't clearer

Original Beta
FL 12 12
C 11 11
FR 6 6
Sub 3 3
SR 14 12
BR 12 12
BL 13 12
SL 15 12

As you can see, the only channels that changed were the ones that were reduced to 12. As I stated, a radio shack meter determined that the original levels were correct. By restoring the Original version, I could then raise the trim levels accordingly.
That is why I suggest it is better to use the original rather than the beta.

My levels were identical with the beta version. However, the over main volume was about 3-4 dB lower.

However, there's no doubt that Genesis was a lot hotter in the main volume than ARC-2. That's essentially not a big deal. You just turn it up or down to match.

Otherwise, I'm not sure of the difference aside from that.

Legairre 05-23-2019 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58091282)
Sorry my post wasn't clearer

Original Beta
FL 12 12
C 11 11
FR 6 6
Sub 3 3
SR 14 12
BR 12 12
BL 13 12
SL 15 12

As you can see, the only channels that changed were the ones that were reduced to 12. As I stated, a radio shack meter determined that the original levels were correct. By restoring the Original version, I could then raise the trim levels accordingly.
That is why I suggest it is better to use the original rather than the beta.

You're able to set your levels to 15? How they only go to 12.

WLC 05-23-2019 07:41 PM

The issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod (Post 58091310)
My levels were identical with the beta version. However, the over main volume was about 3-4 dB lower.

However, there's no doubt that Genesis was a lot hotter in the main volume than ARC-2. That's essentially not a big deal. You just turn it up or down to match.

Otherwise, I'm not sure of the difference aside from that.

I'm not concerned about overall volume. The issue is that the Original Genesis provides calibration levels that are higher than the AVM60 calibration goes. Several of my channels are higher than 12. The beta version takes away that information, but does not actually fix the issue. I have fixed it to my satisfaction by adjusting the trims accordingly. I have only posted this because I think it is an issue that other users may not have noticed. I'm actually delighted with Genesis. It's just that I'm sticking with the original version until a truly significant upgrade comes along. Actually, with the adjustments I've made, I can't really see how it could sound better.
I came to the AVM60 from a Lexicon MC12b which I had for many years. As was the case with the processor before that, I always adjusted the surround with a sound meter. I was pleasantly surprised that the AVM60 sounded so much better because of ARC. However, I fiddled with the subs frequently. ARC Genesis takes my system to an entirely different level. The bass boost adjustment was the cherry on top. I'm done fiddling.
I have a separate stereo system with identical speakers to my home theater fronts. It also includes 2 subs. I have a mini dsp with dirac in the chain before the DAC. It only took me a couple of hours to adjust the system to my liking. I haven't touched the stereo system since. I've often wondered whether I should get a processor with Dirac so I could be equally satisfied with my Home theater. With Genesis, I no longer am interested in changing processors. In my home, at least, Genesis is the equal of Dirac in terms of my satisfaction.

Legairre 05-23-2019 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod (Post 58091310)
My levels were identical with the beta version. However, the over main volume was about 3-4 dB lower.

However, there's no doubt that Genesis was a lot hotter in the main volume than ARC-2. That's essentially not a big deal. You just turn it up or down to match.

Otherwise, I'm not sure of the difference aside from that.

Same here every one of my levels was exactly the same with the original Genesis and the beta.

Erod 05-23-2019 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58091388)
I'm not concerned about overall volume. The issue is that the Original Genesis provides calibration levels that are higher than the AVM60 calibration goes. Several of my channels are higher than 12. The beta version takes away that information, but does not actually fix the issue. I have fixed it to my satisfaction by adjusting the trims accordingly. I have only posted this because I think it is an issue that other users may not have noticed. I'm actually delighted with Genesis. It's just that I'm sticking with the original version until a truly significant upgrade comes along. Actually, with the adjustments I've made, I can't really see how it could sound better.
I came to the AVM60 from a Lexicon MC12b which I had for many years. As was the case with the processor before that, I always adjusted the surround with a sound meter. I was pleasantly surprised that the AVM60 sounded so much better because of ARC. However, I fiddled with the subs frequently. ARC Genesis takes my system to an entirely different level. The bass boost adjustment was the cherry on top. I'm done fiddling.
I have a separate stereo system with identical speakers to my home theater fronts. It also includes 2 subs. I have a mini dsp with dirac in the chain before the DAC. It only took me a couple of hours to adjust the system to my liking. I haven't touched the stereo system since. I've often wondered whether I should get a processor with Dirac so I could be equally satisfied with my Home theater. With Genesis, I no longer am interested in changing processors. In my home, at least, Genesis is the equal of Dirac in terms of my satisfaction.

I'm fortunate to not have this speaker level issue like so many. My rear surrounds are set much higher to +10, but nothing above the +12 range.

I agree with you about Genesis. Overall, a major improvement, and I look forward to them getting all the kinks worked out.

WLC 05-23-2019 07:50 PM

Setting Level Trims so Channels are Higher than 12
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58091382)
You're able to set your levels to 15? How they only go to 12.

Level Trim P.44 of the manual

5.6 LEVEL TRIM
"If a channel group, for example the surrounds or the subwoofer, occasionally sounds too
loud or soft, its level can be adjusted on the fly. Press LEVEL to cycle through the groups
then up/down to adjust. LFE is a separate adjustment from Subwoofer which can be used
to reduce LFE level without affecting redirected bass from other channels. Subwoofer
adjustment changes the redirected bass together with LFE."

I know this isn't intended for calibration, but it does the job quite well. Until Anthem comes out with a genuine solution, this is the one I'm going to stick with. My wife and I have a scene we've used for years to check our surround effect. Using the calibration limits did not satisfy us. Using the level trim to fix the problem restored us to the surround effect we prefer.

Legairre 05-23-2019 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58091418)
Level Trim P.44 of the manual

5.6 LEVEL TRIM
"If a channel group, for example the surrounds or the subwoofer, occasionally sounds too
loud or soft, its level can be adjusted on the fly. Press LEVEL to cycle through the groups
then up/down to adjust. LFE is a separate adjustment from Subwoofer which can be used
to reduce LFE level without affecting redirected bass from other channels. Subwoofer
adjustment changes the redirected bass together with LFE."

I know this isn't intended for calibration, but it does the job quite well. Until Anthem comes out with a genuine solution, this is the one I'm going to stick with. My wife and I have a scene we've used for years to check our surround effect. Using the calibration limits did not satisfy us. Using the level trim to fix the problem restored us to the surround effect we prefer.

OK I see how you did it. I though your calibration levels went higher than 12. I only increase the sub from time to time using the LEVEL button. Never had a need to mess with the others with the LEVEL button.

john hunter 05-24-2019 05:31 PM

Any idea what the "tilt"does.
Boost frequencies at either end of the spectrum?

Legairre 05-24-2019 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john hunter (Post 58095278)
Any idea what the "tilt"does.
Boost frequencies at either end of the spectrum?

the tilt and tilt frequency work together to boost or lower the high frequencies. It's the opposite of the deep bass boost and deep bass boost frequency.

WLC 05-25-2019 07:12 AM

System Wide vs Panel Settings for Tilt frequency
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58095532)
the tilt and tilt frequency work together to boost or lower the high frequencies. It's the opposite of the deep bass boost and deep bass boost frequency.

I also have several questions about tilt
For example:
In the System Wide Settings the tilt start frequency defaults to 100. However if your tilt level is 0, does that mean that the start frequency doesn't matter? (I assume that's correct)
What is the difference between System Wide Settings and the high frequency roll off on Speaker Panels? On the Speaker Panels, the roll off begins at 10k hz. Does this mean that you can start below 10k hz if you use the System Wide Settings vs the Speaker Panels?
Also, how does the Tilt Level (db) on the System Wide of -12 to +6 db compare to Speaker Panel of 30 to .5?

Thank you in advance for any wisdom you might impart.

Legairre 05-25-2019 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC (Post 58096724)
I also have several questions about tilt
For example:
In the System Wide Settings the tilt start frequency defaults to 100. However if your tilt level is 0, does that mean that the start frequency doesn't matter? (I assume that's correct)
What is the difference between System Wide Settings and the high frequency roll off on Speaker Panels? On the Speaker Panels, the roll off begins at 10k hz. Does this mean that you can start below 10k hz if you use the System Wide Settings vs the Speaker Panels?
Also, how does the Tilt Level (db) on the System Wide of -12 to +6 db compare to Speaker Panel of 30 to .5?

Thank you in advance for any wisdom you might impart.

Hi WLC, yes is you set the tilt to 0 the frequency doesn't matter. Setting the tilt to 0 turns it off.

As for the tilt in the system Wide Settings versus the high frequency roll off on the individual speaker panels: The high frequency roll off effects each speaker individually while the tilt is a system wide setting so all speakers are effected by the tilt(except the sub). you can start the roll off below the high frequency roll off 10k by using the tilt but you'll be effecting all speakers instead of just the one.

The tilt level (db) on the System Wide of -12 to +6 db is how much to raise or lower the tilt in decibels while the Speaker Panel of 30 to .5 is just a measurement for how steep the roll off will be. .5 will roll off very steeply starting at 10k like dropping off a cliff while 30 will be a gradual and smooth roll off like a gradually going down a long hill.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can help any more.
Legairre

WLC 05-25-2019 12:56 PM

Thanks
 
[QUOTE=Legairre;58097524]Hi WLC, yes is you set the tilt to 0 the frequency doesn't matter. Setting the tilt to 0 turns it off.

As for the tilt in the system Wide Settings versus the high frequency roll off on the individual speaker panels: The high frequency roll off effects each speaker individually while the tilt is a system wide setting so all speakers are effected by the tilt(except the sub). you can start the roll off below the high frequency roll off 10k by using the tilt but you'll be effecting all speakers instead of just the one.

The tilt level (db) on the System Wide of -12 to +6 db is how much to raise or lower the tilt in decibels while the Speaker Panel of 30 to .5 is just a measurement for how steep the roll off will be. .5 will roll off very steeply starting at 10k like dropping off a cliff while 30 will be a gradual and smooth roll off like a gradually going down a long hill.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can help any more.
Legairre[/QUOTE

Thanks

mitchlampert 05-28-2019 07:53 AM

If I have an existing calibration, can I remove the sub and send all sub info to my front left and right main speakers without doing a new calibration?

Legairre 05-28-2019 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchlampert (Post 58107838)
If I have an existing calibration, can I remove the sub and send all sub info to my front left and right main speakers without doing a new calibration?

Yup you sure can.

1) Go to to the "Select Speaker(s)" screen/tab and select which profile you want to remove the sub from.
2) Just click on the sub and it will change from blue to white (only blue speakers are part of the profile)
3) Go to the "Adjust Targets" screen/tab and select the profile you removed the sub from and the sub should be gone.
4) In the "Adjust Targets" screen/tab change each speakers "Send Bass to Subwoofer" drop down from "Send Bass to Subwoofer" to "Flat" and you'll see the graph change from rolling off the bass for the sub to a flat line.
5) Click on Review/Summary & Upload to calculate the changes
6) Upload to your device

WLC 05-28-2019 09:09 AM

Tilt Level
 
As I have stated previously, I am very happy with Genesis. However, it does not seem to provide the same level of adjustment as Dirac. That's fine, however, I have noticed a peculiar aberration.
When I adjust the System Wide target for Tilt Level and Tilt Start Frequency, the target changes for each of the speakers. Unfortunately, the combined measurement with and without bass management does not change at all.
Is it possible that the target is actually what reflects what is going on? Does Genesis then assume that the target is achieved? I hope this is the case and I just am not interpreting the graphs appropriately.
Thanks.

I am editing this post because shortly after posting I discovered that the curve viewer is where one needs to look to see the corrected curve.

mitchlampert 05-28-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legairre (Post 58108062)
Yup you sure can.

1) Go to to the "Select Speaker(s)" screen/tab and select which profile you want to remove the sub from.
2) Just click on the sub and it will change from blue to white (only blue speakers are part of the profile)
3) Go to the "Adjust Targets" screen/tab and select the profile you removed the sub from and the sub should be gone.
4) In the "Adjust Targets" screen/tab change each speakers "Send Bass to Subwoofer" drop down from "Send Bass to Subwoofer" to "Flat" and you'll see the graph change from rolling off the bass for the sub to a flat line.
5) Click on Review/Summary & Upload to calculate the changes
6) Upload to your device

Will the .1 lfe channel automatically be fed to the front mains?

Legairre 05-28-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchlampert (Post 58108600)
Will the .1 lfe channel automatically be fed to the front mains?

Honestly I don't know. Anthem is very quick to respond to question(I've gotten a response with a few hours). I'd give them a shout and see what they say. https://www.anthemav.com/support/contact-us.php


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