Help with Anthem MCA and 4 conductor speaker wire!! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 06-09-2019, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with Anthem MCA and 4 conductor speaker wire!!

I am by no means a novice when it comes to setting up and understanding AV equipment but this one I need some input/advice on. Wife and I are closing on a new home this July and of corse, I’m building a dedicated Ht. To keep things safe and aesthetically eye pleasing I’ll be running the speaker cable (CL2, CL3) behind the walls to the 7 speakers
that are causing my dilemma. I have 3x Klipsch KL650 THX’s, 2x Klipsch KS525’s and 2x Klipsch KL525’s. They ALL have 4 binding posts. My QUESTION (finally, sorry) is: when running 4 conductor speaker cable from each speaker to each amp, what is the best way to connect this type of speaker cable to said amp? Each 12awg wire will have its place on the speaker: red and white to HF, Black and Green to LF, but on the amp side? I know I keep the same red and white together as well as the green and Black. Should I just twist together and connect bare wire to the appropriate positive/negative binding post on amp or use a large enough locking spade or banana with perhaps shrink wrap to terminate connection? Please help.
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post #2 of 9 Old 06-09-2019, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DroidBishop View Post
I have 3x Klipsch KL650 THX’s, 2x Klipsch KS525’s and 2x Klipsch KL525’s. They ALL have 4 binding posts. My QUESTION (finally, sorry) is: when running 4 conductor speaker cable from each speaker to each amp, what is the best way to connect this type of speaker cable to said amp? Each 12awg wire will have its place on the speaker: red and white to HF, Black and Green to LF, but on the amp side? I know I keep the same red and white together as well as the green and Black. Should I just twist together and connect bare wire to the appropriate positive/negative binding post on amp or use a large enough locking spade or banana with perhaps shrink wrap to terminate connection? Please help.

You don't have to use all 4 binding posts. They should have jumpers between each pair, so you can just wire them conventionally. Bi-wiring really wont buy you much. I'd just go 2-conductor.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #3 of 9 Old 06-09-2019, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I know I don’t reeeally have to but I’ve always have. With the new HT build and utilizing CL2 rated in wall speaker cable, I was really looking for what others have done in my situation. I may just go with 4 conductor cable, connect each wire bare to all 4 speaker terminals, then terminate banana plugs with set screws, cover with shrink wrap and call it a day. I do have some some spade/banana jumpers I could utilize.
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post #4 of 9 Old 06-10-2019, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DroidBishop View Post
I know I don’t reeeally have to but I’ve always have. With the new HT build and utilizing CL2 rated in wall speaker cable, I was really looking for what others have done in my situation. I may just go with 4 conductor cable, connect each wire bare to all 4 speaker terminals, then terminate banana plugs with set screws, cover with shrink wrap and call it a day. I do have some some spade/banana jumpers I could utilize.
Think about it...

If you run four wires from the speaker to the amplifier (2 each per -/+), you have two wires terminated at one single positive terminal at the amplifier and one single negative terminal at the amplifier.

If you run one single wire from each of the amplifiers single -/+ terminal to the speaker and split it at the speakers terminal block with a jumper wire or a jumper on the speakers terminal block for bi-wiring, it's exactly the same connection electrically.

If you're bi-wiring from a single amplifier channel, and you use four wires to the speaker, the only difference is where you jumper the speakers passive crossover. In other words, if you remove the jumper from the speakers terminal block as supplied by Klipsch, you're simply replacing it with the four wires termination at the amplifiers terminals. All you've done is move the jumper contact point from the speaker to the amplifier terminal. Again, it's exactly the same connection electrically.

I realize that you have always done it this way but it is "reeeally" and absolute waste of money, it's totally redundant. There is "reeeally" no sonic or electrical benefit in bi-wiring the speaker save for the guy selling you the speaker wire making more money.

The other point to consider is that two 12AWG wires twisted together at the ends is going to give you the equivalent of 6AWG electrically and a physically larger in diameter wire that you will probably have to cut down to fit in a banana plug which is still the equivalent of a single wire.
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post #5 of 9 Old 06-10-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DroidBishop View Post
I know I don’t reeeally have to but I’ve always have. With the new HT build and utilizing CL2 rated in wall speaker cable, I was really looking for what others have done in my situation. I may just go with 4 conductor cable, connect each wire bare to all 4 speaker terminals, then terminate banana plugs with set screws, cover with shrink wrap and call it a day. I do have some some spade/banana jumpers I could utilize.
There is nothing magical about CL2 in-wall cable. Unless the wire is already there and you're stuck with it? Well, O.K. But if you've not gone that far, then 2-conductor. It'll just be easier to work with to a degree, save you some $$$, and be a very straightforward install on both speaker and amp end. How you terminate is a personal preference really. I do use both bananas and spades, some go bare wire. Don't feel obligated to do it just because that's how you've always done it.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #6 of 9 Old 06-13-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
There is nothing magical about CL2 in-wall cable. Unless the wire is already there and you're stuck with it? Well, O.K. But if you've not gone that far, then 2-conductor. It'll just be easier to work with to a degree, save you some $$$, and be a very straightforward install on both speaker and amp end. How you terminate is a personal preference really. I do use both bananas and spades, some go bare wire. Don't feel obligated to do it just because that's how you've always done it.

CL2 a fire safety rating for cable. Given the AC voltages in speaker cable, CL2 or better cable is required by the National Electric Code for in-wall installation, which is intern adopted by local ordinances. CL2 cable isn't magic, but it can reduce personal injury and property damage from fires. Several loudspeaker manufactures specify CL2 rated cable for use in open areas, likely since it appears that NEC regulations may apply in this application as well.
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post #7 of 9 Old 06-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Think about it...

If you run four wires from the speaker to the amplifier (2 each per -/+), you have two wires terminated at one single positive terminal at the amplifier and one single negative terminal at the amplifier.

If you run one single wire from each of the amplifiers single -/+ terminal to the speaker and split it at the speakers terminal block with a jumper wire or a jumper on the speakers terminal block for bi-wiring, it's exactly the same connection electrically.

If you're bi-wiring from a single amplifier channel, and you use four wires to the speaker, the only difference is where you jumper the speakers passive crossover. In other words, if you remove the jumper from the speakers terminal block as supplied by Klipsch, you're simply replacing it with the four wires termination at the amplifiers terminals. All you've done is move the jumper contact point from the speaker to the amplifier terminal. Again, it's exactly the same connection electrically.

I realize that you have always done it this way but it is "reeeally" and absolute waste of money, it's totally redundant. There is "reeeally" no sonic or electrical benefit in bi-wiring the speaker save for the guy selling you the speaker wire making more money.

The other point to consider is that two 12AWG wires twisted together at the ends is going to give you the equivalent of 6AWG electrically and a physically larger in diameter wire that you will probably have to cut down to fit in a banana plug which is still the equivalent of a single wire.

Based on resistance of copper wire, 9 AWG is the equivalent for two 12 AWG cables in parallel. 6 AWG is the equivalent of two 9 AWG cables or four 12 AWG cables in parallel.


An easy way to look at this is with slightly different sized cables is:


10 AWG has a resistance of .001 ohms per foot


13 AWG has a resistance of .002 ohms per foot


16 AWG has a resistance of .004 ohms per foot


Each change in the AWG size by 3, changes the resistance by a factor of 2
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post #8 of 9 Old 06-13-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
Based on resistance of copper wire, 9 AWG is the equivalent for two 12 AWG cables in parallel. 6 AWG is the equivalent of two 9 AWG cables or four 12 AWG cables in parallel.


An easy way to look at this is with slightly different sized cables is:


10 AWG has a resistance of .001 ohms per foot


13 AWG has a resistance of .002 ohms per foot


16 AWG has a resistance of .004 ohms per foot


Each change in the AWG size by 3, changes the resistance by a factor of 2

Thanks for the correction but I was referencing physical size and not resistance. I should have not used the word "electrically".

A 12 AWG wire is ~ 2mm in diameter and a 6 AWG wire is ~ 4mm in diameter. The larger diameter, especially two 12 AWG wires twisted together can become something of a challenge when trying to connect to a banana plug or 5 way binding post.

I've seen a good many installations were people insist on doing something like this or even larger gauge wire where they are forced to use or attach a smaller gauge pigtail with pants to be to make the connection and maintain the users cosmetic illusion.

As far as resistance goes... Yes, with consideration to the math and materials there are measurable differences but in most all home applications even 20 AWG is sufficient as I'm sure you well know.
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post #9 of 9 Old 06-13-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
CL2 a fire safety rating for cable. Given the AC voltages in speaker cable, CL2 or better cable is required by the National Electric Code for in-wall installation, which is intern adopted by local ordinances. CL2 cable isn't magic, but it can reduce personal injury and property damage from fires. Several loudspeaker manufactures specify CL2 rated cable for use in open areas, likely since it appears that NEC regulations may apply in this application as well.

Thanks. My statement was poorly worded. Not to imply to NOT use in-wall rated cable, I should have said there is nothing magical about 4-conductor cable. No need to use 4-conductor, unless it was already there....

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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