differance between PRE PR and pre outs on high end reciever - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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differance between PRE PR and pre outs on high end reciever

MY 10 yr old onkyo processor died. trying to figure out why I should spend more for another when I can buy a mid to high end receiver with pre outs? Why are processors so much more than recievers when they really do less?? What would be the pros and cons of a mid line receiver and not using the amplification?
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 08:58 AM
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The main reason is production numbers. They sell far, far less pre pros than AVR's. A pre pro is pretty much a niche product. Just find an AVR on annual closeout with preouts which is heavily discounted.

Also, AVR models get replaced every year but prepros do not. So you're more likely to find an AVR with more new features than a prepro.

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post #3 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
The main reason is production numbers. They sell far, far less pre pros than AVR's. A pre pro is pretty much a niche product. Just find an AVR on annual closeout with preouts which is heavily discounted.

Also, AVR models get replaced every year but prepros do not. So you're more likely to find an AVR with more new features than a prepro.
That's what I thought...I was wondering if processors had bigger/better power supplys or more processing power ...but in the real world would there be any real difference in audio quality between the two...
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post #4 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 10:07 AM
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I doubt they have larger power supplies since they aren't doing any amplification. I see pre pros that are under 4 and 5 inches tall. They obviously do not have large power supplies.

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post #5 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 10:27 AM
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@snookfisher the pre/pro ued to be the best choice for high end because they could put all of their efforts into quality and features and not worry about power (amplification). The balanced preouts then sent a nice clean signal to whatever amps you wanted. Good for HT and great for 2 channel music.

However, with the advancement of technology, the single box solution is catching up. My buddy has a large dedicated theater with a marantz 7702mkii (pre/pro) with 3x150w emotiva amps running the 9 speakers. That thing FN cranks. However, as I said above, the new technology of say the sister (receiver) Denon x4500 or x6500 could probably compete up to certain listening levels because they have most of the same features, good power and all of them have the same room correction, audyssey xt32.

Now, if you want separates then go for it, there is plenty of support for you here. However, if you do not have a dedicated theater and don't have the rack space, then there are excellent single box solutions with plenty of power and features from $500 to $4k.

Some of the audiophiles here can hear the difference in dacs between Yamaha and say, Onkyo, but I cannot. I am not even sure I could tell the difference in room correction solutions, but that is one of the thngs you could keep an eye on to esnsure your room sounds as good as possible. NAD is known to have one of the best solutions available, Denon/Marantz probably next with audyssey xt32, Yammy close with YPAO rsc and then Pionkyo, as it just doesn't have the tweakability (technical term) of dirac or xt32.


All of these have preouts and have 9+ channels of power with all if the newest 4k features, etc.

Onkyo rz830 or cousin Pioneer vsx-lx503
Yammy a2070/2080 or v2085
Denon x4400/x4500


next level, all 9+ channels

Denon x6400/x6500
Yammy 3070/3080
NAD 758 v3
Denon x8500
Marantz sr8012


Good luck!
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 10:55 AM
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I would think a standalone processor would be able to offer and utilize more features a particular chip/chipset has available. It would have a better, more robust power supply for input and output and not be compromised by additional non-pertinent hardware and processes within the unit. Picking and choosing particular features from a chip or chipset is not unusual, especially if there is licensing involved.
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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ill be using the receiver as a pre/pro and bypassing the amplification....thanks for the imput!
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
I doubt they have larger power supplies since they aren't doing any amplification. I see pre pros that are under 4 and 5 inches tall. They obviously do not have large power supplies.
I would assume, in most cases, that they have a larger power supply. My Pre/pro weighs more than a lot of receivers, and it is not necessarily larger than those receivers.

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post #9 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:10 AM
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Usually, most pre-pros have better DACs for the surround speakers. Most people don't/won't hear the difference in the surrounds.

Many pre-pros often have balanced outputs on all channels to the external amps, while higher-end receivers will usually only have balanced outputs to the fronts speakers. Again, most people usually won't hear any difference unless they have an unbalanced RCA cable running next to a power cord.

The area that tends to be more noticeable for many is if someone plays loud, like at reference level or a few dB below it. The power out of a lot of receivers become strained. Some a little, some a LOT. If you offload the front speakers onto an external amp to unburden the receiver, you'll take most of the load off the receiver.

Otherwise, if you buy the higher-end receiver of that line you'll get pretty much the same feature set as the pre-pro but at a lower cost.

FWIW
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:19 AM
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I was thinking of this Outlaw Model 976. Under 5" tall but has balanced outputs for all channels.
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jawaburger View Post
I would assume, in most cases, that they have a larger power supply. My Pre/pro weighs more than a lot of receivers, and it is not necessarily larger than those receivers.
Marantz AV8003? It is specified as consuming 85W. (That's a lot less than the even cheapish AVRs.) I suppose that its weight (25.6 lb.) could be explained by a massive power supply, but is that likely?

It's obviously a fairly high-end unit from 10 years ago. Maybe it's just built like the proverbial tank.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snookfisher View Post
That's what I thought...I was wondering if processors had bigger/better power supplys or more processing power ...but in the real world would there be any real difference in audio quality between the two...
I don't know, from personal experience.

I have read claims that pre/pros are superior because they don't have any spurious signals that are coupled in from power amplifiers.
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
I was thinking of this Outlaw Model 976. Under 5" tall but has balanced outputs for all channels.
Balanced outputs aren't really necessary unless you have a really long cable run between the pre/pro and the amp(s). Or your amp only has balanced inputs. Also, not sure if it matters to you, but the Outlaw does not/cannot decode any of the newer immersive audio formats like Dolby Atmos or DTS:X.

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post #14 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyRider View Post
Balanced outputs aren't really necessary unless you have a really long cable run between the pre/pro and the amp(s). Or your amp only has balanced inputs. Also, not sure if it matters to you, but the Outlaw does not/cannot decode any of the newer immersive audio formats like Dolby Atmos or DTS:X.
None of it would matter to me, just trying to assist the OP. I use a Denon AVR x3300 in my setup with an external amp for the front channels. I have DTS:X, Dolby Atmos and it also passes Dolby Vision so I'm set for a while.

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post #15 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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IF I have to upgrade might as well do the atmos thing....
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post #16 of 16 Old 06-18-2019, 01:16 PM
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Pre outs are deliberately excluded from every low end receiver [they would add almost no cost] because the audio companies know that only the tip top end of their market cares about it.
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