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post #1 of 21 Old 07-16-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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How can I do this? (Outdoor TV sound setup)

Need some help from the folks here figuring out how to accomplish something.

I'm building an outdoor living area in my backyard next to a pool. I've got speaker wire ran to it and a Cat-5 ran to it which I'd like to use for a WiFi extender (Eero). I'm planning on using the zone 2 on my indoor receiver to drive a pair of outdoor speakers attached to the structure. All good so far.

My challenge is I want to have a TV (or projector) out there as well, and I'd like to have the option to run it through the speakers as well. It's a pretty long way from my living room, so I can't run another cable back to it - and don't think I'd want to. So my question is how can I accomplish this.

Options I've considered:
1) Use some sort of a/b speaker switch to toggle my speakers between my indoor receiver (on zone 2) and a separate 2-channel amp that I'd plug my TV/Projector into. I think this is possible, but not sure the best products to use for it.
2) Forego using my Cat-5 for a WiFi extender and instead use some sort of IP dongle to send the analog audio from my TV back to my indoor receiver as an input. I don't love this as I really want stronger WiFi outside.

Any other ideas of how best to accomplish this? 95% of the time I'll just be using the system for music from my inside system (likely using Airplay), but I'm envisioning watching movies/ballgames in the pool and want to be able to leverage the speakers outside for that too.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-16-2019, 08:26 PM
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For Option #2 , why not just add a Gigabit Ethernet switch before the access point (wifi extender) so you can have both?
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post #3 of 21 Old 07-17-2019, 03:17 AM
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The Denon X3500H (on clearance with the pending release of the newer 2019 X3600H) features a Zone 2 HDMI monitor output (passing audio+video) which could be connected to another AVR on the patio in which the TV/PJ would also be connected. Alternatively, the X3500H could also power the Zone 2 speakers (as long as only using a 5.1 or less in the main zone).
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-17-2019, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bill Broderick View Post
For Option #2 , why not just add a Gigabit Ethernet switch before the access point (wifi extender) so you can have both?
Bill - my understanding is the dongle approach (to send audio over cat-5) requires a dedicated cat-5 cable. Is that not true? The EERO I'd put out there has a port on it that I could connect something into, but I didn't think I could use a dongle to send an audio signal through a router and back out of the switch I have with my living room equipment.

jdsmoothie - not a bad idea, but my patio location for the TV/Projector is a long way from my living room. I can't run an HDMI cable that far (nor do I have access to physically do it). I could probably find a HDMI over Cat-5 solution that would let me do this, but then I'd lose the ability to also have an access point on the patio since I'd be using my Cat for the HDMI.
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-17-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cholec View Post
Bill - my understanding is the dongle approach (to send audio over cat-5) requires a dedicated cat-5 cable. Is that not true? The EERO I'd put out there has a port on it that I could connect something into, but I didn't think I could use a dongle to send an audio signal through a router and back out of the switch I have with my living room equipment.

I don't know. You may be correct. When you ran the original Cat-5 cable, was in run inside of conduit, which would allow you to fish a second Ethernet Cable through the same path?
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-17-2019, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know. You may be correct. When you ran the original Cat-5 cable, was in run inside of conduit, which would allow you to fish a second Ethernet Cable through the same path?
Unfortunately no - I had the guys who wired the house when it was built do it - its a line (speaker and cat) that runs from my living room equipment location to a stub on the back side of my house. Definitely no conduit or way to pull another through the same path.
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-17-2019, 05:34 PM
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do an amazon search or a google search for "HDMI Extender" over CAT5. there are units available that will do this over a single CAT5.

I also found this HDMI over IP: looks like you can both! : https://www.amazon.com/gofanco-395ft...-1-spons&psc=1

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post #8 of 21 Old 07-18-2019, 09:36 AM
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The only way you could ever share an ethernet cord with something else is if you stick with 100Mbps ethernet (which only uses 2 pairs of the 4 inside CAT5+) and then use one pair for audio-left and one pair for audio-right. But then you've only got 2 channels of audio and it's unbalanced and (probably) unshielded (unless you used shielded twisted pair (STP) wire in which case it will be shielded but not as well as a coax cable). Gigabit and up use all 4 pairs of the wire. Note that this answer has nothing to do with running video over IP as that is not "sharing an ethernet cord" as you'd be using ethernet itself and it wouldn't be "sharing" with another use.


All that said, unless your pool is very far (hundreds of feet or more) from your house, there's no reason to put a wifi AP out there. Put one inside your house, using a directional antenna, and aim it at that area. Home users should never need to put a wifi AP outdoors, ever. You can buy directional antennas fairly cheap (on Ebay especially) and you can find plenty of APs that have external antennas that you could swap with a directional one.




And for other advice that could use in the future - I honestly think it is never appropriate to run just one run of ethernet cable. I literally don't care what you think you're wiring it for. Just one connection is never good enough. Any time I run ethernet, I personally run 4 of them.

Last edited by DonoMan; 07-18-2019 at 09:42 AM.
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post #9 of 21 Old 07-18-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post
The only way you could ever share an ethernet cord with something else is if you stick with 100Mbps ethernet (which only uses 2 pairs of the 4 inside CAT5+) and then use one pair for audio-left and one pair for audio-right. But then you've only got 2 channels of audio and it's unbalanced and (probably) unshielded (unless you used shielded twisted pair (STP) wire in which case it will be shielded but not as well as a coax cable). Gigabit and up use all 4 pairs of the wire. Note that this answer has nothing to do with running video over IP as that is not "sharing an ethernet cord" as you'd be using ethernet itself and it wouldn't be "sharing" with another use.


All that said, unless your pool is very far (hundreds of feet or more) from your house, there's no reason to put a wifi AP out there. Put one inside your house, using a directional antenna, and aim it at that area. Home users should never need to put a wifi AP outdoors, ever. You can buy directional antennas fairly cheap (on Ebay especially) and you can find plenty of APs that have external antennas that you could swap with a directional one.


And for other advice that could use in the future - I honestly think it is never appropriate to run just one run of ethernet cable. I literally don't care what you think you're wiring it for. Just one connection is never good enough. Any time I run ethernet, I personally run 4 of them.
@DonoMan , I give you points on creativity re: slitting wires in a cat5 run. I totally disagree with the outdoor access point. adding a wired AP could be a very effective way to improve coverage. And with the newer mesh systems, there isn't a reason not to, especially since you can also get a mesh outdoor rated AP.

I agree with you on pulling multiple cables, but with a gigabit switch(s) you could be ok with a single CAT5.

lastly, check out the link I posted on the previous reply for the HDMI over ethernet solution.

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post #10 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
I totally disagree with the outdoor access point. adding a wired AP could be a very effective way to improve coverage. And with the newer mesh systems, there isn't a reason not to, especially since you can also get a mesh outdoor rated AP.

It can, and yes you can certainly get outdoor-rated APs. My point was simply that it's almost never actually necessary to do this.
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post #11 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 07:38 AM
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Pardon the interruption, but I'll tell you how I did this very thing on the cheap (internet notwithstanding, as I already had WiFi blanketing the deck).

It all depends on what kind of sound quality you can live with. For me, television on the deck didn't need 5.1. Stereo from the weatherproof speakers was good enough. I slapped a little FM transmitter on the back of the television and tuned the deck AVR to the frequency of the transmitter. Didn't run Cat5 to the deck. Just RG-6 for the DirecTV receiver (for sports). Admittedly, a low-tech solution, but it worked beautifully. Bonus: I could slap the transmitter on the DirecTV receiver in the house and listen to ESPN while I mowed the lawn or shoveled snow.

By the way, I added some specifics to your title. Hope you don't mind.

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post #12 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 07:50 AM
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It can, and yes you can certainly get outdoor-rated APs. My point was simply that it's almost never actually necessary to do this.
fair enough. Just as in your first solution, there is always more than 1 solution!

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post #13 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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@DonoMan , I give you points on creativity re: slitting wires in a cat5 run. I totally disagree with the outdoor access point. adding a wired AP could be a very effective way to improve coverage. And with the newer mesh systems, there isn't a reason not to, especially since you can also get a mesh outdoor rated AP.

I agree with you on pulling multiple cables, but with a gigabit switch(s) you could be ok with a single CAT5.

lastly, check out the link I posted on the previous reply for the HDMI over ethernet solution.
Thanks - I did check out that item. Looks like a good solution for running HDMI over Cat-5e. But it does still look like it requires a dedicated line for it to work - the switches it shows are just so you can do point-to-multipoint with it, but from what I can tell you can't just plug a sender in your existing network in one place and a receiver in the other place. If I'm wrong, that could work great.

For the most part I could get by without putting an EERO on my back patio. My concern is the the TV or Projector I use out there will likely just use a Roku stick and will be streaming content. I've had some dropouts in the past trying to use my AppleTV on a projector out there to watch the NBA playoffs (could have just been crappy DirecTV Now service at the time), so adding another EERO out there would eliminate any speed issues.

Yes - I agree and wish I had more Cat runs out there. I actually didn't spec any when I built the house - the only reason I have one is the contractor pulled one with every speaker zone I had so the stub on the side of my house has both a single Cat and the 16/4 speaker wire in it.
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Pardon the interruption, but I'll tell you how I did this very thing on the cheap (internet notwithstanding, as I already had WiFi blanketing the deck).

It all depends on what kind of sound quality you can live with. For me, television on the deck didn't need 5.1. Stereo from the weatherproof speakers was good enough. I slapped a little FM transmitter on the back of the television and tuned the deck AVR to the frequency of the transmitter. Didn't run Cat5 to the deck. Just RG-6 for the DirecTV receiver (for sports). Admittedly, a low-tech solution, but it worked beautifully. Bonus: I could slap the transmitter on the DirecTV receiver in the house and listen to ESPN while I mowed the lawn or shoveled snow.

By the way, I added some specifics to your title. Hope you don't mind.
Thanks DrDon - no problem modifying the title. I am only looking for stereo audio - plan to have 2 speakers on the side of my structure facing the pool that I want to play though, so no need for 5.1. Your solution is interesting - wonder if the audio would be clear with it back to the AVR in my living room - suspect it would be. If so, I'd use that source for the zone 2 output and all would work. Thanks for the idea.
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 09:12 AM
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Thanks DrDon - no problem modifying the title. I am only looking for stereo audio - plan to have 2 speakers on the side of my structure facing the pool that I want to play though, so no need for 5.1. Your solution is interesting - wonder if the audio would be clear with it back to the AVR in my living room - suspect it would be. If so, I'd use that source for the zone 2 output and all would work. Thanks for the idea.
Sounds very much like the arrangement we put in for our helicopter-landing-pad-size deck in Detroit. Reception wasn't much of an issue as the deck had its own (repurposed) AVR sitting just inside the patio door. Whip antenna in its F-connector was plenty. The other radios in the house were all tied in to the roof-mounted television antenna. Made for a cheap-and-dirty way to pipe DirecTV's music channels throughout the house. Or ballgames.

See your PM.

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post #16 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 01:09 PM
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I second the quality of that FM transmitter. One nice thing about it is that although it complies with FCC's transmission strength rules, there is a small dial inside of it that you can rotate to increase the signal strength. Since you can choose your own transmission frequency, you can boost the signal and transmit on a unused frequency so that you don't cause problems to any of your neighbors who may be trying to listen to the radio.
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This'll help you pick the frequency: https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/vacant

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post #18 of 21 Old 07-19-2019, 05:21 PM
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Thanks - I did check out that item. Looks like a good solution for running HDMI over Cat-5e. But it does still look like it requires a dedicated line for it to work - the switches it shows are just so you can do point-to-multipoint with it, but from what I can tell you can't just plug a sender in your existing network in one place and a receiver in the other place. If I'm wrong, that could work great.

For the most part I could get by without putting an EERO on my back patio. My concern is the the TV or Projector I use out there will likely just use a Roku stick and will be streaming content. I've had some dropouts in the past trying to use my AppleTV on a projector out there to watch the NBA playoffs (could have just been crappy DirecTV Now service at the time), so adding another EERO out there would eliminate any speed issues.

Yes - I agree and wish I had more Cat runs out there. I actually didn't spec any when I built the house - the only reason I have one is the contractor pulled one with every speaker zone I had so the stub on the side of my house has both a single Cat and the 16/4 speaker wire in it.
If I read the description correctly, then it is not "HDMI over CAT5" it is "HDMI over IP" since it is Ethernet? or is it. the RJ-45 jack is "HDBit-T TX" ...also mentions being able to put it over un-managed switches. you should be able to bookend a pair a cheap 5 port Ethernet switches and use 1 port for the AP, and the other for the extender...

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looked at that listing, and it does say IP, but my experience as someone working in the IT field is that if those are to work over IP you would need to be able to configure the IP settings on them and there appears to be no way to do that. Also every other thing they say about it aside from the "IP" does seem to be a normal balun. I lean towards thinking they are not IP-based after all. But I'm not stating this 100% definitely. Fairly sure, but not positive.
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-20-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post
looked at that listing, and it does say IP, but my experience as someone working in the IT field is that if those are to work over IP you would need to be able to configure the IP settings on them and there appears to be no way to do that. Also every other thing they say about it aside from the "IP" does seem to be a normal balun. I lean towards thinking they are not IP-based after all. But I'm not stating this 100% definitely. Fairly sure, but not positive.
I hear you. one of models, the 1 to many, shows a standard ethernet switch in the middle. If this can pass through a standard Ethernet switch, you should be good to go. as far as the description goes, maybe it should be : " HDMI over Ethernet"

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post #21 of 21 Old 07-20-2019, 03:47 PM
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@cholec since you already have cat 5 run, the old Integra and high end Onkyo DTRs had what is called HDbaseT, which is a cat-5 out to run zone 2/3. I think it has a max effective distance of 328ft? Look into, my old Integra receivers do not have it so I can't help with setup and specs.

This one is only $549 and supposed to be pretty damn good. https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eceiver/1.html
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