Denon Purchase Question - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Denon Purchase Question

I have spent the last 48 hours scouring AVS and other informative web sites trying to find something out... and I don't feel I have learned anything definitive to help me with my question:

I am looking for a new AV Receiver for my newly built HT. I have narrowed it down to the Denon AVR-X6500H or the AVR-X8500H.

My HT is 7.2.4 - The LCR speakers are DIYSG HTM-12's and all remaining surround and height speakers are DIYSG Volt-10's. Looking at 2 full or mini MartySub kits from GSG Audio (1 x Behringer NX4-6000).

My real question is about performance comparisons of the 6500 (140W) vs the 8500 (150W) - and if the 8500 internals driving the 150W are (far) superior to those of the 6500? I read here on AVS that one test of the 6500 at 7.2.4 - near reference levels - may have pushed the 6500 to its limit (I think using KEF speakers). Because of that I fear that I might do the same with my DIYSG speaker setup (or not?). I also consider that I do not need 13.2 channels as my HT is 7.2.4. I guess I am looking for someone to tell me that; A - the 8500 will sound a LOT better than the 6500 or; B - the 6500 will sound just as good as the 8500 for what you have. Price is always a concern and if I end up with the 6500 I can spend that money on the SUBs (or something).
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post #2 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscuba View Post
I have spent the last 48 hours scouring AVS and other informative web sites trying to find something out... and I don't feel I have learned anything definitive to help me with my question:

I am looking for a new AV Receiver for my newly built HT. I have narrowed it down to the Denon AVR-X6500H or the AVR-X8500H.

My HT is 7.2.4 - The LCR speakers are DIYSG HTM-12's and all remaining surround and height speakers are DIYSG Volt-10's. Looking at 2 full or mini MartySub kits from GSG Audio (1 x Behringer NX4-6000).

My real question is about performance comparisons of the 6500 (140W) vs the 8500 (150W) - and if the 8500 internals driving the 150W are (far) superior to those of the 6500? I read here on AVS that one test of the 6500 at 7.2.4 - near reference levels - may have pushed the 6500 to its limit (I think using KEF speakers). Because of that I fear that I might do the same with my DIYSG speaker setup (or not?). I also consider that I do not need 13.2 channels as my HT is 7.2.4. I guess I am looking for someone to tell me that; A - the 8500 will sound a LOT better than the 6500 or; B - the 6500 will sound just as good as the 8500 for what you have. Price is always a concern and if I end up with the 6500 I can spend that money on the SUBs (or something).
You could even go with an X3600 and inexpensive 2 channel amp which would save you a lot of money. The X3600 has audyssey XT32, dual sub eq and all the latest tech and features. Would leave you plenty for 2 nice subs.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_543P75...cc=01&tp=48757
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX...l#&gid=1&pid=2
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post #3 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 01:31 PM
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@rdscuba the x6500 and x8500 are for those who want 11/13 channels in a single box solution and have $$ falling out of their wallets. Those do have monoblock designs, iiirc but I don't think many people will be able to hear the difference from those and say, the little brother x4500.

Your speakers are wayyy efficient and will get loud without a ton of power, so as @pase22 said, the x4400/x4500 and new x3600 are 9 channels that can expand to 11 with small external amp. Those can be had for less than the x6500 so use the savings to build 2 good subs and maybe an inuke 3k/6k.

I own no high end gear so just my $.02!
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post #4 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 01:44 PM
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I went with a Denon x4400h and an Outlaw Model 5000 for my 7.1.4 setup with 5 subs (3 of which are self amplified) so that might be an option for you as well.
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post #5 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscuba View Post
I have spent the last 48 hours scouring AVS and other informative web sites trying to find something out... and I don't feel I have learned anything definitive to help me with my question:



I am looking for a new AV Receiver for my newly built HT. I have narrowed it down to the Denon AVR-X6500H or the AVR-X8500H.



My HT is 7.2.4 - The LCR speakers are DIYSG HTM-12's and all remaining surround and height speakers are DIYSG Volt-10's. Looking at 2 full or mini MartySub kits from GSG Audio (1 x Behringer NX4-6000).



My real question is about performance comparisons of the 6500 (140W) vs the 8500 (150W) - and if the 8500 internals driving the 150W are (far) superior to those of the 6500? I read here on AVS that one test of the 6500 at 7.2.4 - near reference levels - may have pushed the 6500 to its limit (I think using KEF speakers). Because of that I fear that I might do the same with my DIYSG speaker setup (or not?). I also consider that I do not need 13.2 channels as my HT is 7.2.4. I guess I am looking for someone to tell me that; A - the 8500 will sound a LOT better than the 6500 or; B - the 6500 will sound just as good as the 8500 for what you have. Price is always a concern and if I end up with the 6500 I can spend that money on the SUBs (or something).
I owned 4500 and still own 6500. I thought about using a separate amp for LCR and staying with the 4500 to run 7.1.4 The cheapest 3 channel amp that I liked was $1000. I found an open box 6500 for $500 off MSRP so it was a no brainer for me. I have heard the 8500. IMHO the sound is nearly identical for all three. The 8500 is upgradeable to HDCP 2.3 and various HDMI 2.2 and above in the future via updates is what Denon claims. I hope that is true for almost $2K more than the 6500. I am running 7.1.4 . I am very pleased with the 6500. I am running old speakers Energy Take TWR FPS AND LCR and SVS Elevation for my Dolby Atmos Speakers. All of them are 8 OHM speakers and do not require a great deal of power to play at reference levels. I usually set my Denon at -17DB.

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post #6 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:21 PM
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Sorry not to help with your question but, what do you have now?
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post #7 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
You could even go with an X3600 and inexpensive 2 channel amp which would save you a lot of money. The X3600 has audyssey XT32, dual sub eq and all the latest tech and features. Would leave you plenty for 2 nice subs.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_543P75...cc=01&tp=48757
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX...l#&gid=1&pid=2
Nice idea, thank you for the links and suggestions!
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post #8 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry not to help with your question but, what do you have now?
Denon AVR-X2000

Height speakers are dormant - just running 7.1 right now.
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post #9 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:33 PM
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Denon AVR-X2000



Height speakers are dormant - just running 7.1 right now.
LOL: same here! I had 5.1.4 with Denon 4300H until last week that I got tired of Audyssey and returned it to its box. Going back to Onkyo. Now using Pioneer 932. Really miss the .4
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post #10 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
@rdscuba the x6500 and x8500 are for those who want 11/13 channels in a single box solution and have $$ falling out of their wallets. Those do have monoblock designs, iiirc but I don't think many people will be able to hear the difference from those and say, the little brother x4500.

Your speakers are wayyy efficient and will get loud without a ton of power, so as @pase22 said, the x4400/x4500 and new x3600 are 9 channels that can expand to 11 with small external amp. Those can be had for less than the x6500 so use the savings to build 2 good subs and maybe an inuke 3k/6k.

I own no high end gear so just my $.02!
One thing that may help is that I have an out of state friend who is an authorized Denon dealer and I "hope" he will sell to me at his cost - as long as he wont get into trouble. If I am lucky enough to get at cost plus shipping maybe the x6500 will be affordable and I can avoid the need for an external amp? Nothing is confirmed as I have not even asked my buddy yet, I just know he gave me a killer deal on my x2000 that I have now. That or I would consider a refurb from accessories4less.com maybe? Or would there actually be a benefit to going with an x4500 plus an external amp?
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post #11 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:41 PM
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Might be a dumb question but if you have 4 atmos height Speakers and are watching a non-atmos Blu-Ray, do you get any additional surround sound out of them or will they only play atmos-coded content?
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post #12 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 02:55 PM
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Might be a dumb question but if you have 4 atmos height Speakers and are watching a non-atmos Blu-Ray, do you get any additional surround sound out of them or will they only play atmos-coded content?
You are able to choose any soundfield that transforms the original 5.1 into whatever speaker you have. Example: now watching Entrapment 5.1 DTS-HD BR. If I choose Direct, only 5.1 channels. I choose DTS Neural:X
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post #13 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscuba View Post
I have spent the last 48 hours scouring AVS and other informative web sites trying to find something out... and I don't feel I have learned anything definitive to help me with my question:



I am looking for a new AV Receiver for my newly built HT. I have narrowed it down to the Denon AVR-X6500H or the AVR-X8500H.



My HT is 7.2.4 - The LCR speakers are DIYSG HTM-12's and all remaining surround and height speakers are DIYSG Volt-10's. Looking at 2 full or mini MartySub kits from GSG Audio (1 x Behringer NX4-6000).



My real question is about performance comparisons of the 6500 (140W) vs the 8500 (150W) - and if the 8500 internals driving the 150W are (far) superior to those of the 6500? I read here on AVS that one test of the 6500 at 7.2.4 - near reference levels - may have pushed the 6500 to its limit (I think using KEF speakers). Because of that I fear that I might do the same with my DIYSG speaker setup (or not?). I also consider that I do not need 13.2 channels as my HT is 7.2.4. I guess I am looking for someone to tell me that; A - the 8500 will sound a LOT better than the 6500 or; B - the 6500 will sound just as good as the 8500 for what you have. Price is always a concern and if I end up with the 6500 I can spend that money on the SUBs (or something).
Denon authorized dealer with full manufacturer warranty. Pretty great deal on open box.


https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/produ...eiver-open-box

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post #14 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon authorized dealer with full manufacturer warranty. Pretty great deal on open box.


https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/produ...eiver-open-box

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wow, that is a nice deal. thanks

I need a deal on your seating too... the ones in your avatar. :-)
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post #15 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
@rdscuba the x6500 and x8500 are for those who want 11/13 channels in a single box solution and have $$ falling out of their wallets. Those do have monoblock designs, iiirc but I don't think many people will be able to hear the difference from those and say, the little brother x4500.

Your speakers are wayyy efficient and will get loud without a ton of power, so as @pase22 said, the x4400/x4500 and new x3600 are 9 channels that can expand to 11 with small external amp. Those can be had for less than the x6500 so use the savings to build 2 good subs and maybe an inuke 3k/6k.

I own no high end gear so just my $.02!
Thanks for the advice. I know my DIYSG speakers at 7.1 using my AVR-X2000 do sound incredible and can get very loud with zero distortion. But what I think I like best is when the volume is turned way down I can still hear tons of crystal clear detail. I am hoping a new AVR (4500, 6500 or 8500) will improve things even more.
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wow, that is a nice deal. thanks



I need a deal on your seating too... the ones in your avatar. :-)
The seats are relatively inexpensive and are so comfortable. Power recline and power headrests. Full leather.

https://fusioncollectionseating.com/...escape-1019-2/

Having a great sale right now.

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post #17 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Denon authorized dealer with full manufacturer warranty. Pretty great deal on open box.


https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/produ...eiver-open-box

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Open Box items from authorized dealers come with the full Denon manufacturer's warranty?
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post #18 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 06:43 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscuba View Post
One thing that may help is that I have an out of state friend who is an authorized Denon dealer and I "hope" he will sell to me at his cost - as long as he wont get into trouble. If I am lucky enough to get at cost plus shipping maybe the x6500 will be affordable and I can avoid the need for an external amp? Nothing is confirmed as I have not even asked my buddy yet, I just know he gave me a killer deal on my x2000 that I have now. That or I would consider a refurb from accessories4less.com maybe? Or would there actually be a benefit to going with an x4500 plus an external amp?
Denon receivers have about 40pts in margin, so cost on a 6500 should be about $1,320 (without shipping, obviously).
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post #19 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 08:20 PM
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Open Box items from authorized dealers come with the full Denon manufacturer's warranty?
Yes, you are buying a product that Denon can verify was sold as new therefore they honor the 3 year warranty attached to the 6500.

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post #20 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Denon authorized dealer with full manufacturer warranty. Pretty great deal on open box.

https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/produ...eiver-open-box

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Many open box deals, that are not in one of the categories at the bottom of this email, are: "open box" wink...

The only open box item I ever purchased, which was many years ago, arrived in a box that had clearly never been opened. Often cash flow concerns are a reason for moving product in a hurry or extra product purchased to qualify for some special pricing from the distributor/manufacturer.

For comparison, demo units may have sat powered on 12-hours per day for six months. Returns may have been used at a series of Delta toga parties.
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post #21 of 27 Old 08-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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wow, that is a nice deal. thanks

I need a deal on your seating too... the ones in your avatar. :-)

Call safeandsound. They offered me a new x6500 for $100 more than that open box price, free shipping & no tax back on 7/1/19.
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post #22 of 27 Old 08-15-2019, 05:28 AM
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Might be a dumb question but if you have 4 atmos height Speakers and are watching a non-atmos Blu-Ray, do you get any additional surround sound out of them or will they only play atmos-coded content?

The AVR is able to upmix a 5.1 track to use the height speakers. You would see it referenced as DTS Neural X or Dolby Surround Upmixer (also Auro 3D).
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Thanks for the advice. I know my DIYSG speakers at 7.1 using my AVR-X2000 do sound incredible and can get very loud with zero distortion. But what I think I like best is when the volume is turned way down I can still hear tons of crystal clear detail. I am hoping a new AVR (4500, 6500 or 8500) will improve things even more.
If your speakers are very efficient and have no trouble reaching your desired volume levels with your current AVR, go with the cheapest option.
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post #24 of 27 Old 08-16-2019, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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So, If I get the 6500 are they going to release a new model in September? My luck is that they will...
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post #25 of 27 Old 08-16-2019, 02:54 PM
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So, If I get the 6500 are they going to release a new model in September? My luck is that they will...
According to a few sources here, the higher end stuff (x4500+) will not come out until 2021, iirc?? I assume they are working on hdmi 2.1 implementation?
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post #26 of 27 Old 08-16-2019, 03:04 PM
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So, If I get the 6500 are they going to release a new model in September? My luck is that they will...
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscuba View Post
So, If I get the 6500 are they going to release a new model in September? My luck is that they will...
According to a few sources here, the higher end stuff (x4500+) will not come out until 2021, iirc?? I assume they are working on hdmi 2.1 implementation?

You mean, 2020. 😉
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post #27 of 27 Old 08-16-2019, 03:06 PM
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yea @355F1 that sounds a little more reasonable.
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