JBL Synthesis SDP-55 (16ch, 9.1.6 Atmos Surround Sound Processor) - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Krobar View Post
I'm beginning to think I'm the only one with a unit that is actually usable day to day.
My unit is definitely usable day to day. I am new to Dirac so I am waiting for it to work like it's supposed to. Not playing back 24/96 files using Dirac is a deal breaker for me, so I am content to wait til there is a consistent workable process with Dirac. Kind of a pain to reenter parameters after a firmware update due to processor reset, but livable. This processor sounds really good , even with no room correction. Far better than my previous Yamaha CX-A5000.

Still get pops when going from mute to unmute and in and out of standby, but most other things work pretty well.
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post #932 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 06:35 AM
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I'm beginning to think I'm the only one with a unit that is actually usable day to day.
There's a lot of room to rationalize between usable and getting what you're paying for.
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post #933 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 06:59 AM
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@Jsin_N Sorry to hear you continue to have issues with the SDP-55 and Dirac. You may already be doing this AND I have little hope it will help, but I wanted to share regardless. If you don't already, make sure your laptop is plugged into a power source when running Dirac. The reason I suggest this is when I do AutoCal on JVC projectors I've noticed that about 40-50% of the time if the laptop is not connected to a power source, the mic optical sensor will time out during a calibration. But if i have the laptop plugged into a power source.... well, I'm not sure it's ever timed out that I can remember.

Like I said, it's a shot in the dark, but something that may help. BEST OF LUCK!!!!
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post #934 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
@Jsin_N Sorry to hear you continue to have issues with the SDP-55 and Dirac. You may already be doing this AND I have little hope it will help, but I wanted to share regardless. If you don't already, make sure your laptop is plugged into a power source when running Dirac. The reason I suggest this is when I do AutoCal on JVC projectors I've noticed that about 40-50% of the time if the laptop is not connected to a power source, the mic optical sensor will time out during a calibration. But if i have the laptop plugged into a power source.... well, I'm not sure it's ever timed out that I can remember.

Like I said, it's a shot in the dark, but something that may help. BEST OF LUCK!!!!


I was plugged in when I did the test. No such luck.

Thanks for the reply and tip tho!
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post #935 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 09:05 AM
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Stopped getting Atmos through Arc on netflix again.

Also, the left speaker makes a digital chirp sometimes now. I thought it was mastering in the Tiger King, but it did it with nothing playing.
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post #936 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post
My unit is definitely usable day to day. I am new to Dirac so I am waiting for it to work like it's supposed to. Not playing back 24/96 files using Dirac is a deal breaker for me, so I am content to wait til there is a consistent workable process with Dirac. Kind of a pain to reenter parameters after a firmware update due to processor reset, but livable. This processor sounds really good , even with no room correction. Far better than my previous Yamaha CX-A5000.

Still get pops when going from mute to unmute and in and out of standby, but most other things work pretty well.
DTS CD's do not output any sound. I can get a readout that the track is playing, but no sound.
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post #937 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 03:57 PM
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Just added 24/176 PCM and 24/192 PCM to the Dirac bug list, 24/88 and 24/96 is OK. Anyone tried a 24/96 TrueHD disc? (I don't have any)
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post #938 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I'm surprised anyone still has this thing in their rack.
For as much as it pisses me off, the sound is really good. When things work.

Someday this will be the processor to have in this price bracket. I think then end of this month was way off base and at the rate they're releasing firmwares (mostly just geared at the Arcam), it's likely June.
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post #939 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post
DTS CD's do not output any sound. I can get a readout that the track is playing, but no sound.
Some CD players were not compatible with DTS encoded music CDs...

Just my $0.02..
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post #940 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
For as much as it pisses me off, the sound is really good. When things work.

Someday this will be the processor to have in this price bracket. I think then end of this month was way off base and at the rate they're releasing firmwares (mostly just geared at the Arcam), it's likely June.
Agreed. Someday. Like the day it becomes a product that should be released. We're talking a $4k+ product here. I don't even expect perfection, although it should be close. The state of this device is abysmal IMO.

And I don't mean to insult anyone that kept it. To each his own, really. For me, it would have been back to JBL a long time ago.

When they're finished developing the product for release, I'm still a potential customer .
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post #941 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 06:40 PM
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Let's hope they start working on weekly firmware fixes at this rate. Cause what they just sent out wasn't worth the two week wait.
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post #942 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 07:46 PM
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Agreed, but I would rather buy speakers with excellent directivity and off-axis response which helps eliminate the room from the equation. At that point, the only thing needing correction are the lower frequencies. Personally, in my room with the JBL M2s, I don't run RC above 250hz. That is why I am so looking forward to the Dirac BM. If the process of dialing in multiple subs can be automated, it will be impressive.

I am not aware of Trinnov having any secret sauce in the bass regions. Many of the Trinnov owners use a MiniDSP to manually sum the sub channels just like the rest of us. It would be nice to find two rooms setup identical at a trade show with one running Trinnov and the other Dirac Live. I might be a convert, but I would have to hear it first.
Not exactly secret sauce, but I can give you a few reasons to go with Trinnov for the bass regions:
1) Unlimited PEQ filters per channel (last time I checked, the MiniDSP software supported six at most)
2) More control over speaker delays (MiniDSP is up to 30 ms, Trinnov goes up to 50 ms on the setup you'd use to integrate up to four subs into a single output channel)
3) Multipoint position weighting, if you want to use some measurements vs. all and adjust how you want to weight for emphasizing MLP vs. a more spread out approach
4) You can decide where you want IIR filters to stop, and for mains, tinker with not only the transition frequency between IIR and FIR, but the octave level of the acoustic correction
5) If you really want to get esoteric with a 3D audio setup, you can have triple bass management, with the full-range mixed content for, say, front heights go to subs up to 80 Hz, cross to the speakers underneath (L/R in this case) to 120 or 140 Hz, and then be played by the height speakers.

To be fair, this takes some hands-on training to use, or you do have to hire a pro. But Trinnov has gotten extremely good at supporting enthusiasts these days, even working with some at odd hours of the night US time. They're also doing free seminars online that end users can attend more recently.

Not saying this is worth the price premium, or doesn't require tradeoffs if you're going to use an Altitude 16 compared to a 32 (namely, whether you use that MiniDSP or equivalent for managing the multiple subs or not due to the channel count limitation), but if you're a hands-on measuring type, I couldn't think of a better tool for implementing MSO results and optimizing the sweet spot for bass if you don't mind some manual input.
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post #943 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Not exactly secret sauce, but I can give you a few reasons to go with Trinnov for the bass regions:
1) Unlimited PEQ filters per channel (last time I checked, the MiniDSP software supported six at most)
2) More control over speaker delays (MiniDSP is up to 15 ms, Trinnov goes beyond that)
3) Multipoint position weighting, if you want to use some measurements vs. all and adjust how you want to weight for emphasizing MLP vs. a more spread out approach
4) You can decide where you want IIR filters to stop, and for mains, tinker with not only the transition frequency between IIR and FIR, but the octave level of the acoustic correction
5) If you really want to get esoteric with a 3D audio setup, you can have triple bass management, with the full-range mixed content for, say, front heights go to subs up to 80 Hz, cross to the speakers underneath (L/R in this case) to 120 or 140 Hz, and then be played by the height speakers.

To be fair, this takes some hands-on training to use, or you do have to hire a pro. But Trinnov has gotten extremely good at supporting enthusiasts these days, even working with some at odd hours of the night US time. They're also doing free seminars online that end users can attend more recently.

Not saying this is worth the price premium, but if you're a hands-on measuring type, I couldn't think of a better tool for implementing MSO results and optimizing the sweet spot for bass if you don't mind some manual input.
Most of this is true if you use the base, but the HD uses 10 filters/channel and 30ms delay.

That said, I'm sure the Trinnov is awesome.
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post #944 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 08:08 PM
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Most of this is true if you use the base, but the HD uses 10 filters/channel and 30ms delay.

That said, I'm sure the Trinnov is awesome.
I looked at the MiniDSP website when I researched this, which is where I got the bit about 15 ms from the info about the 8x8 plugin, but that does close a good deal of the gap.

I don't know why anyone would want to do this in an HT setting, but I just checked the Optimizer settings, and in theory you could add up to 100 ms delay (at least, that's where I gave up) to any of the output channels. I guess having pro audio and cinema audio roots is the reason.

One thing for noah katz, as a former owner of an older Trinnov device: a lot of what I mentioned has come about in the last two to three years...and you have to go well beyond their Optimizer Wizard to the separate PEQ settings and the Advanced Optimizer menu. Their Wizard is pretty much going to just take you to default settings for some of the heavy lifting.

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post #945 of 2457 Old 03-30-2020, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsin_N View Post
Most of this is true if you use the base, but the HD uses 10 filters/channel and 30ms delay.

That said, I'm sure the Trinnov is awesome.
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I looked at the MiniDSP website when I researched this, which is where I got the bit about 15 ms from the info about the 8x8 plugin, but that does close a good deal of the gap.

I don't know why anyone would want to do this in an HT setting, but I just checked the Optimizer settings, and in theory you could add up to 100 ms delay (at least, that's where I gave up) to any of the output channels. I guess having pro audio and cinema audio roots is the reason.

One thing for noah katz, as a former owner of an older Trinnov device: a lot of what I mentioned has come about in the last two to three years...and you have to go well beyond their Optimizer Wizard to the separate PEQ settings and the Advanced Optimizer menu. Their Wizard is pretty much going to just take you to default settings for some of the heavy lifting.
The regular miniDSP 2x4 does 7ms delay max. The miniDSP 2x4 HD does up to 80ms delay, 10x PEQs per inputs + 10 x PEQs per output. All this for $205...
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post #946 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 03:37 AM
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The regular miniDSP 2x4 does 7ms delay max. The miniDSP 2x4 HD does up to 80ms delay, 10x PEQs per inputs + 10 x PEQs per output. All this for $205...
So that negates my comment about delay for aligning multiple subs (it actually exceeds the Altitude's cutoff of 50ms on the menu where you'd use multi subs to be output as one, but not the individual outputs that can go over 100 ms if you're looking for that). I see where it is now in the 2x4 HD manual...just wished that they'd put that on the product pages. In ancient times I owned the 10x10 HD . I had went to the 10x10 HD manual on the website, which still shows 15 ms for the 8x8 plugin, and had assumed that the setting was uniform across the products.

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post #947 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Some CD players were not compatible with DTS encoded music CDs...

Just my $0.02..
This is an Oppo BDP-103 source, it has no problem playing DTS CD's, I have a library of them.

Thanks,

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Being cooped up in this house, I was thinking now would be a time to buy a nice processor for my system. I've always wanted to try Dirac, and was wanting something that supports it. But these threads scare me . No thanks, I think I 'll just wait . How about the Lexicon MC-10. Is it ok? Or does it also have issues similar to these ? Along with movie content, I'm a music lover and the Immersive 7 looked interesting . This might be the wrong thread for this, but I think they are all tied at the hip ...

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Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post
This is an Oppo BDP-103 source, it has no problem playing DTS CD's, I have a library of them.



Thanks,



Bill
DTS CDs? Wow, until today, I have NEVER heard of such a thing. At first I thought you were full of schiit until I looked it up.

You say you have a library of them. What CDs are they? I don't doubt you but these are most certainly a very small niche. But I have to wonder if I have any and just don't know it.

Thanks for teaching me something today. Always a good day when I learn something new.

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post #950 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 10:20 AM
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DTS CDs? Wow, until today, I have NEVER heard of such a thing. At first I thought you were full of schiit until I looked it up.

You say you have a library of them. What CDs are they? I don't doubt you but these are most certainly a very small niche. But I have to wonder if I have any and just don't know it.

Thanks for teaching me something today. Always a good day when I learn something new.

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The DTS Music Disc (official name), DTS Audio CD or 5.1 Music Disc is an audio Compact Disc that contains music in one of various possible surround sound configurations. The specification permits discrete channel configurations from 2.0 (L, R) to 6.1 (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs, Cs), although 5.1 (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs) is the most common.

They have a big DTS logo across the front and usually are mixed with 5.1 surround
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post #951 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 10:33 AM
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The DTS Music Disc (official name), DTS Audio CD or 5.1 Music Disc is an audio Compact Disc that contains music in one of various possible surround sound configurations. The specification permits discrete channel configurations from 2.0 (L, R) to 6.1 (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs, Cs), although 5.1 (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs) is the most common.

They have a big DTS logo across the front and usually are mixed with 5.1 surround
Where do you buy those at ?

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post #952 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 10:49 AM
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Where do you buy those at ?
They have not been released for a long time so second hand on Ebay is probably your best bet, quite a few were later released on DVD-A or newer high res formats. I have around 20 in the loft, will have to bring one down and try it at some point.
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Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post
The DTS Music Disc (official name), DTS Audio CD or 5.1 Music Disc is an audio Compact Disc that contains music in one of various possible surround sound configurations. The specification permits discrete channel configurations from 2.0 (L, R) to 6.1 (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs, Cs), although 5.1 (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs) is the most common.



They have a big DTS logo across the front and usually are mixed with 5.1 surround
I looked it up a bit just now.

I was right. Certainly a niche market, more so than SACD and DVD-A combined from the looks of it. Looks like they were mostly available about the same time too (late 90s early 2000s). Considering how I was "into" buying SACDs and DVD-As at the time, read several magazines like S&V, and never heard of them until today (or possibly forgot since they were so niche), they must have not crossed into music I listened to much.

I looked at a list some guy named Mark Anderson (Google DTS CD List) did in 2014. He says his list isn't complete, but I'm not sure, or at least just not sure how complete it is. If it's even half of what was available, then yep, a very niche group. Many of which are things I've never heard of and just by the names aren't appealing at all. But you can't judge a book by its cover.

Either way, nothing I'm going to sweat about missing out on. But I completely understand folks like you wanting to be able to play them properly. Just like my SACDs, DVD-As, and HDCDs for me.

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Being cooped up in this house, I was thinking now would be a time to buy a nice processor for my system. I've always wanted to try Dirac, and was wanting something that supports it. But these threads scare me . No thanks, I think I 'll just wait . How about the Lexicon MC-10. Is it ok? Or does it also have issues similar to these ? Along with movie content, I'm a music lover and the Immersive 7 looked interesting . This might be the wrong thread for this, but I think they are all tied at the hip ...

I have had a Lexicon MC-10 for quite a while. Absolutely no issues, sounds great and does what I need. My room won't support more than 5.2.4. I haven't put speakers in my ceiling for Atmos yet, but the MC-10 will do that and more just fine.
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post #955 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
I have had a Lexicon MC-10 for quite a while. Absolutely no issues, sounds great and does what I need. My room won't support more than 5.2.4. I haven't put speakers in my ceiling for Atmos yet, but the MC-10 will do that and more just fine.

If that's the case, why would someone buy a AV40 or a JBL 55? What do they do, or supposed to do, that is worth such a hassle. And if they actually work as specified, will they theoretically be better than a MC 10? Just trying to make up my mind on whether to wait out this Arcom JBL issue or just buy a Lexicon ..

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post #956 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3740 View Post
If that's the case, why would someone buy a AV40 or a JBL 55? What do they do, or supposed to do, that is worth such a hassle. And if they actually work as specified, will they theoretically be better than a MC 10? Just trying to make up my mind on whether to wait out this Arcom JBL issue or just buy a Lexicon ..
Offer Now:
Atmos support for up to 15.1 (MC10 is up to 11.1)
Better streaming support
Independent subwoofer outputs
Lots of Bugs

In Future:
Dirac Bass Management
DTS:X Pro (DTS:X up to 15.1)
Auro 3D
Dante (Digital output to power amps - JBL SDP 55 only)
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post #957 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 01:23 PM
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Have noticed a few more thing with the Dirac downmix issues:
DTS HD 24/96 + Dirac - Doesn't work at all
PCM 24/96 Stereo + Dirac - OK
PCM 24/96 Stereo + Upmixer + Dirac - OK
PCM 24/96 5.1 + Dirac - OK
PCM 24/96 5.1 + Dirac + Upmixer - Broken

It seems the amount of stress on the DSP determines what works and what doesn't.

@akv Long shot but does the SDP55 support Dirac processing at 24/96 in certain scenarios? (No downmixing from a 24/96 source)
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post #958 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3740 View Post
If that's the case, why would someone buy a AV40 or a JBL 55? What do they do, or supposed to do, that is worth such a hassle. And if they actually work as specified, will they theoretically be better than a MC 10? Just trying to make up my mind on whether to wait out this Arcam JBL issue or just buy a Lexicon ..
Take a look at the websites to compare the features of each model.

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...s/SDP-55-.html

https://www.arcam.co.uk/products,HDA...essor,AV40.htm

https://www.lexicon.com/products/LEXMC10AM.html

No one knows how long it's going to take to get the Arcam and JBL processors to be 100% with all the new features. Lots of folks want them (Auro 3D, Logic 16, Dirac Bass Management etc). It depends on what you want and how soon you want it.

The Arcam list price is $1,500 less than the JBL SDP-55 (MSRP $6,000). The Arcam does not have Dante or Auro 3D.
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post #959 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ss3740 View Post
Being cooped up in this house, I was thinking now would be a time to buy a nice processor for my system. I've always wanted to try Dirac, and was wanting something that supports it. But these threads scare me . No thanks, I think I 'll just wait . How about the Lexicon MC-10. Is it ok? Or does it also have issues similar to these ? Along with movie content, I'm a music lover and the Immersive 7 looked interesting . This might be the wrong thread for this, but I think they are all tied at the hip ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3740 View Post
If that's the case, why would someone buy a AV40 or a JBL 55? What do they do, or supposed to do, that is worth such a hassle. And if they actually work as specified, will they theoretically be better than a MC 10? Just trying to make up my mind on whether to wait out this Arcom JBL issue or just buy a Lexicon ..
I have the MC-10 as well, and it works flawlessly, yet I still plan to get the sdp-55. For reasons none other than I like trying new things so..someone will inevitably benefit from my obsession...And since I also have another processor to replace the sdp-55 with until the firmware gets sorted out, I feel I can go ahead and be an early adopter of sorts. Even though my guys are still holding off on shipping them until there is a good working firmware anyways.

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post #960 of 2457 Old 03-31-2020, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Take a look at the websites to compare the features of each model.

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...s/SDP-55-.html

https://www.arcam.co.uk/products,HDA...essor,AV40.htm

https://www.lexicon.com/products/LEXMC10AM.html

No one knows how long it's going to take to get the Arcam and JBL processors to be 100% with all the new features. Lots of folks want them (Auro 3D, Logic 16, Dirac Bass Management etc). It depends on what you want and how soon you want it.

The Arcam list price is $1,500 less than the JBL SDP-55 (MSRP $6,000). The Arcam does not have Dante or Auro 3D.

One of these products needs to be measured by Amir in ASR. (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...ex.php?reviews)

Given the issues so far with the products above, if the measurements don't at least match, and preferably beat the Emotiva and Monoprice units, then it's hard to see a place for these products in the marketplace. While a higher price may be selling point for some individuals, it is unlikely to carry the day.

Last edited by bigguyca; 03-31-2020 at 01:53 PM.
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