JBL Synthesis SP-55 (16ch, 9.1.6 Atmos Surround Sound Processor) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 140 Old 09-17-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
May I buy an additional paragraph or two or three?

Here are some notes from an old Lexicon MC-12
• Designed for playback of 2-channel stereo music sources
recorded in real spaces and recordings that contain added
reverb.
• Extracts ambient sounds from input sources and sends them to
the side and rear speakers. Stereo information is shared
between the front and center speakers. Front steering is
relaxed compared to the LOGIC7 MUSIC listening mode.
• Recommended for classical music sources, which are often
recorded in real spaces with added reverb to enhance the
stereo mix. This listening mode also works well with live
venues such as concerts.
Default
Parameter Value Values
VOCAL ENHANCE +0.0dB +0.0dB, +3.0dB, +6.0dB
FRONT STEERING MSURR OFF, MSURR, MUSIC, FILM
SOUND STAGE NEUTRAL REAR, NEUTRAL, FRONT
5 SPKR ENHANCE ON OFF, ON
BASS ENHANCE OFF OFF, ON
SURR ROLLOFF 7.0kHz 500Hz to 20.0kHz, OFF
REAR DLY OFFSET 15ms OFF, 1ms to 30ms
OUTPUT LEVELS See page 5-17 for more information*
CUSTOM See page 5-17 for more information*

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
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post #62 of 140 Old 09-17-2019, 05:14 PM
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May I buy an additional paragraph or two or three?
LOL. Sorry about the format. It looked slightly easier to read when I wrote it on my screen.
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post #63 of 140 Old 09-18-2019, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I was going to purchase a Lumin D2 for my Roon/MQA requirements. However if the SP-55 is already Roon/MQA featured I am going to put that money towards the SP-55. Hopefully, like the Lyngdforf, the SP-55 will be able to play MultiChannel DSD files via Roon.
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post #64 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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From the 8min mark. Very nice-

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post #65 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 09:35 AM
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Please stop posting videos of the SDP-55. I wasn't planing for a processor upgrade until 2021 and now this guy shows up.... My wallet hates this hobby.....
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post #66 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
From the 8min mark. Very nice-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YCQrhGFZYQ
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Please stop posting videos of the SDP-55. I wasn't planing for a processor upgrade until 2021 and now this guy shows up.... My wallet hates this hobby.....


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post #67 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 09:49 AM
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Damm they look nice, but the SDR prefix on the receiver naming just seems so last century.
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post #68 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 11:46 AM
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Anyone knows who sells JBL Synthesis in Canada ?
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post #69 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
From the 8min mark. Very nice-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YCQrhGFZYQ
There's a Synthesis version of Trinnov Altitude 16? I can see from the 11min mark a processor labeled as SDP (I think 45?) which is very alike to an Altitude 16 (front & back).
AFAIK only the SDP 75 is based on Trinnov 32 platform, but none so far from Trinnov16 .... ¿?
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post #70 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 12:10 PM
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Does anyone know if the SP-55 will be getting DTS:X Pro? They only actually list DTS:X Pro on the product page for the SP-75 (as coming with firmware update). I know it is a bit off topic, but what is the MSRP for the SP-75 vs the SP-55? If they both have same feature set (DTS:X Pro/IMAX Enchanced), the SP-75 just offers 24/32 channels vs 16 of the SP-55.

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...ack-US-Current

Quote:
Coming Soon – Free Software Upgrades in 2019
IMAX Enhanced® to see and hear IMAX Enhanced media as the filmmaker intended
DTS:X Pro® with up to 32 channels

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post #71 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Seraphic- View Post
Does anyone know if the SP-55 will be getting DTS:X Pro?

Hopefully Logic16 will make DTS:X Pro superfluous.

Noah
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post #72 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OsoSolitario View Post
There's a Synthesis version of Trinnov Altitude 16? I can see from the 11min mark a processor labeled as SDP (I think 45?) which is very alike to an Altitude 16 (front & back).
AFAIK only the SDP 75 is based on Trinnov 32 platform, but none so far from Trinnov16 .... ¿?
I am looking at an SDP-75 very closely at the moment. It is available in 16- and 32-channel versions just like Trinnov. The 16-channel version is expandable to 32 channels, unlike the "lower-tier" Trinnov unit. IIRC the SDP-65 is (or will be) the equivalent of the non-expandable Trinnov 16-channel unit. The SDP-55 is a step down in the line and is based on an Arcam and Dirac Live system whereas the SDP-65 and SDP-75 variants are based upon Trinnov's platform.

@Rex Anderson -- Is that correct?

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #73 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Hopefully Logic16 will make DTS:X Pro superfluous.
Other way 'round. DTS:X decoding already includes scaling the number of channels in the source material to the number of speakers in the set-up. Current limit is 11 outputs. Pro will lift that limit and allow the decoder to scale to more than 11 speakers. Again, this is something built into the format decoding step, not some optional post-processing. Once the DTS:X soundtrack has been fully decoded/scaled and sound is coming from ALL the speakers in your set-up, what will Logic16 upmixing do?
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post #74 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I am looking at an SDP-75 very closely at the moment. It is available in 16- and 32-channel versions just like Trinnov. The 16-channel version is expandable to 32 channels, unlike the "lower-tier" Trinnov unit. IIRC the SDP-65 is (or will be) the equivalent of the non-expandable Trinnov 16-channel unit. The SDP-55 is a step down in the line and is based on an Arcam and Dirac Live system whereas the SDP-65 and SDP-75 variants are based upon Trinnov's platform.

@Rex Anderson -- Is that correct?

HTH - Don
You got it Don.

AFAIK the JBL-Trinnov does not have PEQ or mapping.

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post #75 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I am looking at an SDP-75 very closely at the moment. It is available in 16- and 32-channel versions just like Trinnov. The 16-channel version is expandable to 32 channels, unlike the "lower-tier" Trinnov unit. IIRC the SDP-65 is (or will be) the equivalent of the non-expandable Trinnov 16-channel unit. The SDP-55 is a step down in the line and is based on an Arcam and Dirac Live system whereas the SDP-65 and SDP-75 variants are based upon Trinnov's platform. @Rex Anderson -- Is that correct? HTH - Don
Yes that pretty much sums it up except the SDP-55 is a whole new product with tech from JBL Synthesis, Arcam, and Lexicon. It is not just an Arcam based unit. Kevin Voecks has taken on a vast number of new responsibilities and has been overseeing things to improve performance and make the Harman Luxury Audio product lines more cohesive.

There are still some SDP-75-16 channel units available, but it is being discontinued, the SDP-65 will take it's place (but is not expandable). The SDP-75 will continue to be available in 24 and 32 channel versions. The 16 channel version can be upgraded to 24 or 32 channels. Whew....
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post #76 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 01:10 PM
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Thanks guys for keeping me straight.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #77 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I am looking at an SDP-75 very closely at the moment. It is available in 16- and 32-channel versions just like Trinnov. The 16-channel version is expandable to 32 channels, unlike the "lower-tier" Trinnov unit. IIRC the SDP-65 is (or will be) the equivalent of the non-expandable Trinnov 16-channel unit. The SDP-55 is a step down in the line and is based on an Arcam and Dirac Live system whereas the SDP-65 and SDP-75 variants are based upon Trinnov's platform.

@Rex Anderson -- Is that correct?

HTH - Don
Thanks Don & Rex (answering meanwhile I was writing)

So, this SDP 65 displayed at CEDIA was just a mock-up? Nobody talked about this processor during the fair.
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post #78 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 01:14 PM
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Thanks Don,

So, this SDP 65 displayed at CEDIA was just a mock-up? Nobody talked about this processor during the fair.
Sorry, I was not there, question for @Rex Anderson . My guess it was superseded by the newer stuff so just glossed over.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #79 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 01:31 PM
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Thanks Don & Rex (answering meanwhile I was writing)

So, this SDP 65 displayed at CEDIA was just a mock-up? Nobody talked about this processor during the fair.

The SDP-55 is on the Synthesis website but not the SDP-65. The SDP-65 is a new model, not sure what stage of development it's in and when it will be available. Lots of new products, more stuff for me to look into. I'll keep you posted.
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post #80 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 02:59 PM
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Again, this is something built into the format decoding step, not some optional post-processing. Once the DTS:X soundtrack has been fully decoded/scaled and sound is coming from ALL the speakers in your set-up, what will Logic16 upmixing do?

Good point on the decoding.

As to your question, the answer is that it might sound better.

Nothing I've had since Logic 7 has persuaded me that my surround backs are worth much, so maybe Logic16 will do the same.

And sometimes DTS upmixing is a little too aggressive; Logic16 may be less so, or better yet have adjustable parameters so users can set to taste.

Also, there are many who aren't satisfied with the way DTS upmixes for music, and L16 may also do better at that.



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Yes that pretty much sums it up except the SDP-55 is a whole new product with tech from JBL Synthesis, Arcam, and Lexicon. It is not just an Arcam based unit.

Can you expand on that?

I thought it was essentially Arcam, updated with one of the new DSP's that can handle 16 ch, and Logic16 upmixing.

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post #81 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 03:18 PM
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Can you expand on that?

I thought it was essentially Arcam, updated with one of the new DSP's that can handle 16 ch, and Logic16 upmixing.

That's what I was told and is all I know at this time. It has been hard to get more detailed info, Kevin has been way too busy. I'll see if I can get more details but it might not be right away.
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post #82 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 03:27 PM
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As to your question, the answer is that it might sound better.
That would only be possible if you could replace the DTS scaling with a better upmixer. Except that's not possible, since the scaling is built into the DTS:X format decoding. Doesn't matter how many channels are in the DTS:X soundtrack, by the time it is decoded, it will be playing back on all the speakers. With all the speakers producing sound, there is nothing for Logic16 to upmix to.
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Nothing I've had since Logic 7 has persuaded me that my surround backs are worth much, so maybe Logic16 will do the same.
Doubt it. The designer of Logic7 hasn't worked at Harman for over 10 years. Careful about projecting your wishes onto Logic16.
Quote:
Also, there are many who aren't satisfied with the way DTS upmixes for music, and L16 may also do better at that.
The scaling built into DTS:X decoding used only a portion of Neural:X upmixing: the front part with the centre extraction.
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post #83 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 05:01 PM
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That would only be possible if you could replace the DTS scaling with a better upmixer. Except that's not possible, since the scaling is built into the DTS:X format decoding. Doesn't matter how many channels are in the DTS:X soundtrack, by the time it is decoded, it will be playing back on all the speakers. With all the speakers producing sound, there is nothing for Logic16 to upmix to.

Interesting, thanks.

But that would apply only to DTS (right?), and I believe most of what I get (98% streamed) is Dolby.



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The designer of Logic7 hasn't worked at Harman for over 10 years. Careful about projecting your wishes onto Logic16.

Good advice, I will.

Going for the longshot, is it not possible (albeit unlikely) that since QLI is "in the can" and L16 could be considered a subset of it, that it wouldn't take an algorithmic genius to adapt it?



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The scaling built into DTS:X decoding used only a portion of Neural:X upmixing: the front part with the centre extraction.

Interesting, thanks again.

Noah

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post #84 of 140 Old 09-19-2019, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick question- Coming from Denon where they release firmware updates to fix issues or add features, how good/timely are JBL with their firmware releases and fixes for issues with the processors?
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post #85 of 140 Old 09-20-2019, 07:48 AM
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But that would apply only to DTS (right?), and I believe most of what I get (98% streamed) is Dolby.
This ONLY has to do with DTS:X decoding, NOT with any other DTS format or codec (or any Dolby technology). DTS:X Pro is simply a lifting of their 11-channel limit. Simple as that. You're making it unnecessarily complicated.
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Going for the longshot, is it not possible (albeit unlikely) that since QLI is "in the can" and L16 could be considered a subset of it, that it wouldn't take an algorithmic genius to adapt it?
If you're going to fantasize about what Logic16 is, might as well all the way (QLI). Maybe it's already in the L7I that is in current LexArcam processors. So maybe we've secretly had a "subset" of QLI in consumer products all this time and no one knew about it.

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post #86 of 140 Old 09-20-2019, 10:04 AM
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This ONLY has to do with DTS:X decoding...

So it only works on native DTS:X tracks? Somehow this whole time I've missed that.

My interest in Pro is for upmixing 5.1/7.1 to 9.1.4; will it not do that?

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post #87 of 140 Old 09-20-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
So it only works on native DTS:X tracks? Somehow this whole time I've missed that.
You continue thinking of DTS:X Pro as an upmixer:
Quote:
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Hopefully Logic16 will make DTS:X Pro superfluous.
Pro simply lifts the current 11-speaker limit. It is not an upmixer like Logic16.
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My interest in Pro is for upmixing 5.1/7.1 to 9.1.4; will it not do that?
To upmix legacy 5.1/7.1 sources to your speaker layout, DTS already has an upmixer called Neural:X. Pro simply lifts the current 11-speaker limit. Pro is not something you apply to legacy sources.
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post #88 of 140 Old 09-20-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
To upmix legacy 5.1/7.1 sources to your speaker layout, DTS already has an upmixer called Neural:X. Pro simply lifts the current 11-speaker limit. Pro is not something you apply to legacy sources.

Does DTS:X Pro apply only to native tracks, or will the 11 ch limit on Neural:X upmixing also be lifted?

Noah

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post #89 of 140 Old 09-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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Does DTS:X Pro apply only to native tracks, or will the 11 ch limit on Neural:X upmixing also be lifted?
Why would they continue to limit their upmixer while no longer limiting their decoder?

From the post you quoted:
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DTS already has an upmixer called Neural:X. Pro simply lifts the current 11-speaker limit.

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post #90 of 140 Old 09-20-2019, 11:25 AM
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Why would they continue to limit their upmixer while no longer limiting their decoder?

Just making sure Pro et al would do what I thought it would all along, before I got confused when you said it only applies to DTS:X tracks.

The crucial part being "et al."

Noah

Last edited by noah katz; 09-20-2019 at 11:29 AM.
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