16 Channel Prepros at $5000 or less - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
16-channels seems to be known as 9.1.6. Doesn't that imply 1 sub?
In the context of surround processors, 9.1.6 implies one subwoofer output, but that output can feed as many subs as you want.
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It looks like some processors come with more than one sub connection however, so what does 16 channels actually mean?
Means up to 15 channels of decoding/rendering and one subwoofer output. Some processors allow unused outputs to be used for additional subs.
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Seems like just a couple of years ago that 7.2.4 was a target, at least with Anthem gear. Aren't people with dedicated systems in that configuration faced with a hefty upgrade?
Going from 11 speakers to 15 speakers is about a 36% increase, but that's for more surrounds and heights, so the cost of the additional speakers and amplification need not be that "hefty" relative to the cost of the entire system.
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How stable is 16 channels as a spec? It looks kind of bleeding edge and subject to lots of maturity issues.
It is bleeding edge at the moment since many of the 16-channel products introduced recently at CEDIA aren't even out yet. The latest DSP chipsets have the horsepower to go beyond 16 channels, so 16-channel processors should stabilize over the coming year.
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post #92 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 07:20 AM
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^Sanjay, thanks for answering and sharing context. I'll be on the sidelines, perhaps indefinitely, but it's interesting to see this evolve. Fingers crossed that it turns into new, broadly adopted standards.
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post #93 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
A couple of questions from the sidelines...

- How stable is 16 channels as a spec? It looks kind of bleeding edge and subject to lots of maturity issues.
There's no 16 channel spec per-se.
There is a 16 channel speaker layout that is part of the consumer Atmos spec.

However, 16 channels decoding has been available since the advent of consumer Atmos.
Commercial (theatrical) Atmos was released as a spec in 2012, whereas consumer (home) atmos was released in 2014.
Commercial Atmos allows for up to 128 channels - 10-channel 7.1.2 bed, up to 118 for objects.
Consumer Atmos was spec'd at 24.1.10 (35 channels), based on a 5.1 or 7.1 bed. in theory, 35 channels is the consumer Atmos limitation.

Later on, Auro and DTS-X expanded their immersive decoding to go beyond 13.1 in the consumer realm.

Initially, most CE manufacturers released devices that implemented only up to 7.1.4 and later 9.1.4 Atmos.
But some niche high-end manufacturers implemented support for 16 ch Atmos in their initial release, and one of them (Trinnov) implemented 24.1.10 from the get go.

Note that most manufacturer's devices contain immersive audio hardware based on platforms sourced from less than a handful of immersive audio providers such as MDS, ADI, etc.
Most implementations of immersive audio is based on the software decoders supplied by these hardware platform providers.

For instance, the common 12 ch. (7.1.4) or 14 ch (9.1.4) limitation that most low to mid-end CE manufacturers have is a direct result of the platforms they're using.
Trinnov on the other hand, used their own proprietary platform based on x86 computing hardware and developed software decoders that went up to the consumer Atmos limit, because they'd developed their platform initially for commercial theater systems.

Note that each Atmos implementation has to be sanctioned and approved by Dolby or in the case of DTS-X by DTS.
Going back to the speaker layouts concept, Dolby has been coming out with more (new) approved layouts conforming to the Atmos spec.
One new one recently approved layout is 11.1.8. But if you think of it, this falls in between the lower limit of 5.1.2 and the upper limit 24.1.10. However, it wasn't officially approved until recently, whereas the 9.1.6 layout has been there since the release of consumer Atmos.

It should also be noted that Trinnov's systems have gone beyond Atmos's 35 channel limit by using proprietary upmixers that allow for as many audio streams as you have channels on your equipment. They offer devices that output 48 channels. This would not be technically Atmos compliant though. However, there's nothing stopping any other provider from doing this. As an example Emotiva and StormAudio have annouced devices that can output up to 28/32 channels.

What we're now seeing is that 16ch (9.1.6) is now coming into the mainstream - i.e. at much lower pricing (think <=$7K vs =>$15K), with about a dozen mid to top-end manufacturers (Emotiva, Monoprice, JBL, StormAudio, AudioControl, Acurus, etc) who have now shipped or announced devices supporting =>16 ch immersive audio.



To conclude, it's very mature IMO. However, implementation of the full Atmos spec is key, as is the implementation of upmixers - proprietary or codec based. So YMMV depending on the CE manufacturer.
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post #94 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by midi-guy View Post
- Omitted to avoid confusion -


(The original post has been modified and is even more helpful, see above or several posts below)

This is a helpful post, but it would be good if you edited the post for clarity.

- Omitted -
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post #95 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 08:37 AM
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On any of these receivers, is it possible to designate a 2nd set of side surrounds instead of using wides?
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post #96 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 08:38 AM
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for now I have 7.4.6 but the top middle atmos not work ,my 4 subs running whit y each side because I have just two in my av 8805.

my question is éventually I buy processor whit 16 discret chanels 9.1.6.

what the best for 4 subs ,calibration whit .1 whit 2 cable y .

or mini dsp 4subs

or dirac super sub 4 subs.

thank you for answer

Last edited by leboche; 09-21-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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post #97 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 09:11 AM
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midi-guy, bigguyca, very good posts. Context helps me and likely a lot of others as well. Thanks!


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post #98 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 09:27 AM
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I am kind of getting a bit confused here. Are all of these new processors capable of 6 overhead Atmos (front,middle,rear), 2 side surrounds (left&right), 2 rear surrounds (left&right), and front wides (left&right)? That is how my theater is wired so that is what I need.

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post #99 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
I am kind of getting a bit confused here. Are all of these new processors capable of 6 overhead Atmos (front,middle,rear), 2 side surrounds (left&right), 2 rear surrounds (left&right), and front wides (left&right)? That is how my theater is wired so that is what I need.
Yes, that is the basic 9.1.6 layout that all 16ch units will aim for. More exotic stuff like 11.1.4 and 5.1.8 is anyone's guess. Might require an Altitude 16.
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post #100 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
This is a helpful post, but it would be good if you edited the post for clarity. Is there a 16-channel specification or not?

As part of that edit please indicate the current limit, if any, on the number to channels for home use.
Post edited for clarity.
Some more background info. added.

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post #101 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leboche View Post
for now I have 7.4.6 but the top middle atmos not work ,my 4 subs running whit y each side because I have just two in my av 8805.

my question is éventually I buy processor whit 16 discret chanels 9.1.6.

what the best for 4 subs ,calibration whit .1 whit 2 cable y .

or mini dsp 4subs

or dirac super sub 4 subs.

thank you for answer
My take is that since there is only one (1) channel of program data (LFE) in Atmos, the most cost-effective approach would be to go with a 16 ch processor w/Dirac2, and a mini-dsp running dirac Sub optimization for all your subs.

With 7.4.6 , you're at 17 channels. so, a 16 channel processor wil not do.
If you go with a processor with >16 channels like the Trinnov Altitude32, StormAudio ISP 3D.20 or Emotiva RMC-1 w/ 1 or more expansion modules, in theory, you should be able to run 16 ch Dirac 2 + 4 ch Dirac Sub optimization.

Life is short. Enjoy!
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Last edited by midi-guy; 09-21-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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post #102 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midi-guy View Post
There's no 16 channel spec per-se.
There is a 16 channel speaker layout that is part of the consumer Atmos spec.

However, 16 channels decoding has been available since the advent of consumer Atmos.
Commercial (theatrical) Atmos was released as a spec in 2012, whereas consumer (home) atmos was released in 2014.
Commercial Atmos allows for up to 128 channels - 10-channel 7.1.2 bed, up to 118 for objects.
Consumer Atmos was spec'd at 24.1.10 (35 channels), based on a 5.1 or 7.1 bed. in theory, 35 channels is the consumer Atmos limitation.

Later on, Auro and DTS-X expanded their immersive decoding to go beyond 13.1 in the consumer realm.

Initially, most CE manufacturers released devices that implemented only up to 7.1.4 and later 9.1.4 Atmos.
But some niche high-end manufacturers implemented support for 16 ch Atmos in their initial release, and one of them (Trinnov) implemented 24.1.10 from the get go.

Note that most manufacturer's devices contain immersive audio hardware based on platforms sourced from less than a handful of immersive audio providers such as MDS, ADI, etc.
Most implementations of immersive audio is based on the software decoders supplied by these hardware platform providers.

For instance, the common 12 ch. (7.1.4) or 14 ch (9.1.4) limitation that most low to mid-end CE manufacturers have is a direct result of the platforms they're using.
Trinnov on the other hand, used their own proprietary platform based on x86 computing hardware and developed software decoders that went up to the consumer Atmos limit, because they'd developed their platform initially for commercial theater systems.

Note that each Atmos implementation has to be sanctioned and approved by Dolby or in the case of DTS-X by DTS.
Going back to the speaker layouts concept, Dolby has been coming out with more (new) approved layouts conforming to the Atmos spec.
One new one recently approved layout is 11.1.8. But if you think of it, this falls in between the lower limit of 5.1.2 and the upper limit 24.1.10. However, it wasn't officially approved until recently, whereas the 9.1.6 layout has been there since the release of consumer Atmos.

It should also be noted that Trinnov's systems have gone beyond Atmos's 35 channel limit by using proprietary upmixers that allow for as many audio streams as you have channels on your equipment. They offer devices that output 48 channels. This would not be technically Atmos compliant though. However, there's nothing stopping any other provider from doing this. As an example Emotiva and Storm have annouced devices that can output up to 28 channels.

What we're now seeing is that 16ch (9.1.6) is now coming into the mainstream - i.e. at much lower pricing (think <=$7K vs =>$15K), with about a dozen mid to top-end manufacturers (Emotiva, Monoprice, JBL, StormAudio, AudioControl, Acurus, etc) who have now shipped or announced devices supporting =>16 ch immersive audio.


To conclude, it's very mature IMO. However, implementation of the full Atmos spec is key, as is the implementation of upmixers - proprietary or codec based. So YMMV depending on the CE manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midi-guy View Post
Post edited for clarity.
Some more background info. added.

WOW, that is an amazingly insightful and helpful post. Thanks.

I've edited my previous post to avoid confusion.
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post #103 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goosecat View Post
On any of these receivers, is it possible to designate a 2nd set of side surrounds instead of using wides?
This will depend on the implementation by the manufacturer.

Some, like Trinnov or Storm, allow for very flexible speaker layout selection.
Some like Emotiva will limit you to Atmos sanctioned layouts.

YMMV.

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post #104 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Dirac bass management is still vaporware at this point, are you saying someone is using it with a minidsp?

My mistake for not distinguishing between the upcoming Bass Management Module and what's currently available.

Nevertheless, I don't see what would stop you from using any of its bass output channels to drive a minidsp which itself is driving multiple subs.

They would just be treated as a single sub, same as a single pre/pro sub output feeding a minidsp is done now.

Also similar to the some people with subs that have DSP use it to "precondition" the signal so the RC has less work to do.

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post #105 of 618 Old 09-21-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midi-guy View Post
However, 16 channels decoding has been available since the advent of consumer Atmos.
Commercial (theatrical) Atmos was released as a spec in 2012, whereas consumer (home) atmos was released in 2014.
Commercial Atmos allows for up to 128 channels - 10-channel 7.1.2 bed, up to 118 for objects.
Consumer Atmos was spec'd at 24.1.10 (35 channels), based on a 5.1 or 7.1 bed. in theory, 35 channels is the consumer Atmos limitation.
Just to add a little. The 34 rendering assumptions (speaker locations) in the consumer version coincide with 61 or 63 (I forget the exact number) rendering assumptions in the commercial version. Subwoofer output is not considered a rendering assumption because it is derived via bass management (not Atmos decoding). The up to 118 objects in the commercial version coincide with up to 16 objects in the consumer version. The consumer version can combine nearby objects if there are too many to deliver individually.

The full 34-speaker consumer version of Atmos was available to manufacturers and chipmakers from the begining. The only thing holding back implementation for more than 11 speakers was DSP horsepower (which wasn't a limitation for Trinnov's CPU-based processor).
Quote:
But some niche high-end manufacturers implemented support for 16 ch Atmos in their initial release, and one of them (Trinnov) implemented 24.1.10 from the get go.

Trinnov on the other hand, used their own proprietary platform based on x86 computing hardware and developed software decoders that went up to the consumer Atmos limit, because they'd developed their platform initially for commercial theater systems.

It should also be noted that Trinnov's systems have gone beyond Atmos's 35 channel limit by using proprietary upmixers that allow for as many audio streams as you have channels on your equipment. They offer devices that output 48 channels. This would not be technically Atmos compliant though. However, there's nothing stopping any other provider from doing this. As an example Emotiva and StormAudio have annouced devices that can output up to 28/32 channels.
The Trinnov Altitude32 initially maxed out at 32 outputs, with one being reserved for subwoofer out, so it could render to 31 of the 34 speakers locations. As far as I know, the platform was developed for consumer (moreso custom install) use. Dolby sells their own cinema decoder and doesn't license competitors.

The additional box that expands the number of outputs to 48 is for active crossovers or additional subwoofers or arraying channels, but not for proprietary upmixers. Does Trinnov even have an upmixer? In any case, Atmos cannot be upmixed, since the format is designed to natively scale to the speaker layout.
Quote:
Going back to the speaker layouts concept, Dolby has been coming out with more (new) approved layouts conforming to the Atmos spec. Dolby has been coming out with more (new) approved layouts conforming to the Atmos spec.
One new one recently approved layout is 11.1.8. But if you think of it, this falls in between the lower limit of 5.1.2 and the upper limit 24.1.10. However, it wasn't officially approved until recently, whereas the 9.1.6 layout has been there since the release of consumer Atmos.
There was a new version of Atmos a little over a year ago that included "Testing support for selected speaker configurations up to and including 11.1.8." That means Dolby finally had the ability to test speaker configurations up to 11.1.8 (their previous testing limit was 7.1.4). This only applies to DSP-based products, not CPU-based processors like Trinnov. So the 11.1.8 number that popped up a year ago wasn't a new speaker configuration, just the new limit for Dolby testing support for DSP-based products.

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post #106 of 618 Old 09-24-2019, 05:29 PM
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@Krobar here are some updates provided by Emotiva for your features list:

Emotiva XMC-2
Room Correction: Dirac Live 2.0 (Promised) / REW Manual
Core DSP: Analog Devices Griffin Lite x2
DACs: 1 AK4490 for each of front 3 channels, AK4490 for every 2 channels elsewhere
Auro 3D: No
Imax Enhanced: No (Possible software update under consideration)
DTS:X Pro: Yes (available early 2020)
HDMI Inputs: 8
HDMI Outputs: 2
EARC: No (Available early 2020 with hardware update)
HDMI 2.1 Upgrade Promised: Yes
Digital In: 3 Coax / 3 Optical / 1 AES/EBU
DSD over HDMI: Yes
USB Audio Input: Yes (Multi-channel)
Analogue In: 3 RCA / 1 XLR
Analogue Bypass: Yes
OSD: Yes (Live OSD over all formats including 3D and Dolby Vision)
Tuner: FM / AM
Phono: No
Bluetooth: No
Streaming Support: Optional (Supports Roon via optional internal module available Q1, '20)
Additional Audio Zones: Z2
12V Triggers: 4 Out
Rackmount Kit: Yes
Price USA: $3000
Price UK: £3200

Emotiva RMC-1
Variant Of: Emotiva XMC-2
Differences:
DACs: 1 AK4490 for every channel
Other: Module Slots - MC/MM Phono module, Dual XLR input module, Quad XLR output module (Fully assignable with independent Griffin Lite DSP)
Price USA: $5000
Price UK: £5500

- Rich
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post #107 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
@Krobar here are some updates provided by Emotiva for your features list:

Emotiva XMC-2
Room Correction: Dirac Live 2.0 (Promised) / REW Manual
Core DSP: Analog Devices Griffin Lite x2
DACs: 1 AK4490 for each of front 3 channels, AK4490 for every 2 channels elsewhere
Auro 3D: No
Imax Enhanced: No (Possible software update under consideration)
DTS:X Pro: Yes (available early 2020)
HDMI Inputs: 8
HDMI Outputs: 2
EARC: No (Available early 2020 with hardware update)
HDMI 2.1 Upgrade Promised: Yes
Digital In: 3 Coax / 3 Optical / 1 AES/EBU
DSD over HDMI: Yes
USB Audio Input: Yes (Multi-channel)
Analogue In: 3 RCA / 1 XLR
Analogue Bypass: Yes
OSD: Yes (Live OSD over all formats including 3D and Dolby Vision)
Tuner: FM / AM
Phono: No
Bluetooth: No
Streaming Support: Optional (Supports Roon via optional internal module available Q1, '20)
Additional Audio Zones: Z2
12V Triggers: 4 Out
Rackmount Kit: Yes
Price USA: $3000
Price UK: £3200

Emotiva RMC-1
Variant Of: Emotiva XMC-2
Differences:
DACs: 1 AK4490 for every channel
Other: Module Slots - MC/MM Phono module, Dual XLR input module, Quad XLR output module (Fully assignable with independent Griffin Lite DSP)
Price USA: $5000
Price UK: £5500

- Rich
Thanks for the update. I have added to the first post with consistent wording and detail used for the others.

As a general note I hope to remove the level of speculation in all these specs as other hardware releases. Since Emotiva are the only people shipping an eligible product right now and we are comparing with unreleased products I have allowed quite a lot of speculation ("Promises") on future features for both them and the other manufacturers.
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post #108 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 01:42 AM
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But does the Emotiva even work yet? Last I saw they didn't even have Dirac yet. I would not trust that anything they promise will be implemented correctly or at all.

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post #109 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 01:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by philipbtz View Post
But does the Emotiva even work yet? Last I saw they didn't even have Dirac yet. I would not trust that anything they promise will be implemented correctly or at all.
Since firmware 1.4 Emotivas seem to be working well. At the moment since none of the other products on the list are even available I think its fine.
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post #110 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post
Thanks for the update. I have added to the first post with consistent wording and detail used for the others.

As a general note I hope to remove the level of speculation in all these specs as other hardware releases. Since Emotiva are the only people shipping an eligible product right now and we are comparing with unreleased products I have allowed quite a lot of speculation ("Promises") on future features for both them and the other manufacturers.
Thanks for updating.

One minor correction for the XMC-2:
Quote:
EARC: No (With HDMI 2.1 hardware upgrade)
This function is being phased into the current HDMI 2.0b board production, so maybe:
EARC: No (With HDMI hardware upgrade)
or
EARC: No (With HDMI 2.0b hardware upgrade)

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post #111 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 07:26 AM
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Any news on HDMI 2.1 in general at Cedia?
My guess is that there are no switching reference board designs that can handle the required bandwidth at the moment. So 2.1 is probably a couple of years away on AVRs.
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post #112 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 03:40 PM
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I think most of these are still couple of months away. Which one out of thesr are you all most excited about and see yourself buying? For me it's either JBL or the Monoprice.

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post #113 of 618 Old 09-25-2019, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipbtz View Post
But does the Emotiva even work yet? Last I saw they didn't even have Dirac yet. I would not trust that anything they promise will be implemented correctly or at all.
Personally verified RMC-1 sounds amazingly well in my home theater with:

1. 9.1.6: DD_TrueHD/ATMOS

2. 7.1.4: DTS:X
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post #114 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
I think most of these are still couple of months away. Which one out of thesr are you all most excited about and see yourself buying? For me it's either JBL or the Monoprice.

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For me it is the Arcam and the Emotiva. I'm in the UK so at the moment Monoprice looks to be more expensive and with no local support although I really like the forward looking non legacy design. Also a good dealer I have dealt with in the past will have both the XMC-2 and AV40 on demo so I can compare. If I was a USA resident the choice would be even tougher.
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post #115 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
I think most of these are still couple of months away. Which one out of thesr are you all most excited about and see yourself buying? For me it's either JBL or the Monoprice.

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For me it’s the JBL, then a gap, then everyone else.

Though i’m still not sure if the JBL is worth the $1500 over the Arcam.

Good time to be alive
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post #116 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post
For me it is the Arcam and the Emotiva. I'm in the UK so at the moment Monoprice looks to be more expensive and with no local support although I really like the forward looking non legacy design. Also a good dealer I have dealt with in the past will have both the XMC-2 and AV40 on demo so I can compare. If I was a USA resident the choice would be even tougher.
For me, it is currently between the Emotiva RMC-1 and the HTP-1 but I am waiting for performance specifications to be published. Remember those

I have the XMC-1 with V3 video board and really like the OSD menu system and on-the-fly temporary channel adjustments.
Emotiva has analog path which I also like, although, I have a Benchmark LA4 so that is not absolutely necessary (for me).

My number 1 complaint with the XMC-1 is that it takes a long time to cold start which makes it difficult to automate with an IR remote. That is mitigated with Video on Standby which is pretty much on (I don't like that). This seems petty but my family members want a reliable turn on experience.

The HTP-1 starts comes Roon support but that is coming from Emotiva but with a hardware change. Same for eARC. If these can be done at home, then no problem. The XMC-1 Reference Stereo always sounds a bit better than Direct and that has been true with every processor, but I am not sure why.
Measurements and specification should be provided in Direct mode and the also with DSP's engaged.

The JBL processor looks very nice, but I see no benefit from the networked amplifier technology. I don't have JBL amps and hopefully there is no performance hit for this added complexity.

One benefit of these new processors is they are finally ditching legacy connections (which the big brands are loath to do) and are supporting Roon. I love Roon ! Also, differentially balanced (though not confirmed in most) does provide better isolation, noise reduction, and immunity to ground loop issues (IME). These are environmental so the benefit may not be large in the lab but can matter at home.

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Last edited by RichB; 09-26-2019 at 06:05 AM.
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post #117 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
I think most of these are still couple of months away. Which one out of thesr are you all most excited about and see yourself buying? For me it's either JBL or the Monoprice.

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Same here, with a used Storm, Lyngdorf, or Datasat unit if in fact resale values plummet being the other potential choices.

Logic16 is the distinguishing feature for me. I'm in no hurry so I'll wait until subjective impressions of Logic16 are out and the inevitably beta-buyer bugs are fixed. For me the choice hinges on what Harman does with Logic16. If it ends up disappointing as an immersive upmixer for 2-channel music. Dante is cool but my amps only have balanced analog inputs and I expect them to last a while yet.

By contrast, Emotiva comes out of the gate a crippled product. No Auromatic at this price makes the unit an inherent failure from my perspective, and there's the baggage of Emotiva's past idiocies in the pre-pro market. I'd buy a Marantz 8805 before that, or wait for an Anthem AVM70.

Arcam hasn't to my knowledge officially declared if they're going to upgrade their unit from "failure" to "meets minimum standards" by incorporating Auromatic. Either way, it looks like it's pricier than the HTP-1, despite being an AVR-based unit rather than a ground-up prepro. I don't value the brand particularly, so it would have to be cheaper than the HTP-1 to compete.

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post #118 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
For me it’s the JBL, then a gap, then everyone else.

Though i’m still not sure if the JBL is worth the $1500 over the Arcam.

Good time to be alive
Is Dante Tech the only difference between those 2? If that is the case than its probably not worth the price difference for most people who don't need that capability.

As far as JBL/Arcam vs Monoprice , I am happy to pay more if JBL/Arcam offers small but valuable features like OSD and a better overall customer support which would include software updates to fix the bugs.

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Last edited by nonstopdoc1; 09-26-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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post #119 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Is Dante Tech the only difference between those 2? If that is the case than its probably not worth the price difference for most people who don't need that capability.

As far as JBL/Arcam vs Monoprice , I am happy to pay more if JBL/Arcam offers small but valuable features like OSD and a better overall customer support which would include software updates to fix the bugs.
Please take a look at the first post in the thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post58559696
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post #120 of 618 Old 09-26-2019, 06:58 AM
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Anthem has me locked into virtual inputs. So far the only one of these that has any published manuals is the emotiva. And those are basically limited to two presets + a dirac preset. It won't be flexible enough for me. Awaiting manuals from the other companies.
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