Arcam AVR10/20/30 & AV40 & PA240/410/720 - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sbquart View Post
Yes I saw the sub gain. It's goes from 0db to -30db. I've raised all subs volume to Max and channels 13-16 to Max. I get nada. Only if I run the test tone do they make sound. It doesn't make sense.
Can you also double check under "Speaker Type" subwoofer = Present. If it is None, the tones should not work anyway, but I don't trust those internal test tones. Be careful with those sub volumes, you don't want things blowing up if it comes on. Were you able to level match to the rest of the channels?
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post #512 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post
Can you also double check under "Speaker Type" subwoofer = Present. If it is None, the tones should not work anyway, but I don't trust those internal test tones. Be careful with those sub volumes, you don't want things blowing up if it comes on. Were you able to level match to the rest of the channels?
I tried it both ways. Present and None. It doesn't make a difference. The only thing I haven't done is to plug a subwoofer into the actual subwoofer out channel. I've been using 13-16.
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post #513 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sbquart View Post
I tried it both ways. Present and None. It doesn't make a difference. The only thing I haven't done is to plug a subwoofer into the actual subwoofer out channel. I've been using 13-16.
I would be super frustrated if the subs didn't work. I feel the pain. Sorry.
Can you double check all crossovers one more time. Logically does not make any sense. Have you tried different modes (stereo, dolby etc) and different sources (atmos, dolby, dts, cd) ?
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post #514 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sbquart View Post
I tried it both ways. Present and None. It doesn't make a difference. The only thing I haven't done is to plug a subwoofer into the actual subwoofer out channel. I've been using 13-16.
What exactly do you mean by "haven't done is to plug a subwoofer into the actual subwoofer out channel" ? Why not try that? I am not sure I understand why you are using 13-16. Also when the test tones for subs come on, have you physically felt the driver move in the subs? The LFE tones if coming from some other channel may give the impression it is from the sub. Not sure if those tones are below 80Hz.
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post #515 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sbquart View Post
I tried it both ways. Present and None. It doesn't make a difference. The only thing I haven't done is to plug a subwoofer into the actual subwoofer out channel. I've been using 13-16.
Multi-subwoofer support is a future feature. For now you will need to connect them all to the subwoofer out via splitter or external DSP.
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post #516 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Multi-subwoofer support is a future feature. For now you will need to connect them all to the subwoofer out via splitter or external DSP.
Wow really 🤯 having four sub outs was one of the biggest factors. Even my RMC1 had 3 active outputs. This is a bummer.
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post #517 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 09:02 PM
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Does anyone know (reserving 4 subs out) If 5+wides Plus 4 tops is supported by the Arcam or better yet the JBL sibling?

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post #518 of 586 Old 01-12-2020, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CP850-CLED View Post
Does anyone know (reserving 4 subs out) If 5+wides Plus 4 tops is supported by the Arcam or better yet the JBL sibling?
I don't believe this layout is supported by the TI/MDS APM DSPs. You must have rear surrounds to configure front wides.

I do believe it could be supported if there is sufficient demand. Inform your dealer & Arcam.
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post #519 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 05:24 AM
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Hi guys,

About the pre-outs on AVR30.

I'm a proud user of ATC SCM40 loudspeakers, CA2 Mk2 preamp and P2 amp.
Arcam AVR30 receiver FR and FL pre-outs ( 1V RMS (max. 5V ) are connected to CA2 Mk2 AV line in RCA input (Input Sensitivity: 300mV).
Unfortunately there is too quite sound from FR and FL speakers using this setup.
I have tried different inputs on CA2 - same result.
Phono input with turntable connected and CD input with CD player connected are working just fine.
Also if I connect FR and FL pre-outs from Arcam receiver directly to P2 amplifier - it works.

Also in the manual for ac2 preamp it says to enable “home cinema bypass” set volume knob to 0db mark, but I don’t have this mark. If I set the volume knob to 3 o’clock (where the mark is supposed to be)-there is a sound from the speakers but a lot of noise as well!

Any thoughts?

Also some promising info from Arcam distributor here in Sweden.
V1.0 will be released 20th of Jan.

/Tim
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post #520 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 08:03 AM
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20th of January, is that directly from Arcam or from the distributor?

Makes a big difference.
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post #521 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Nepomnjachy View Post
info from Arcam distributor here in Sweden.
V1.0 will be released 20th of Jan.

/Tim

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
20th of January, is that directly from Arcam or from the distributor?

Makes a big difference.

State of reading comprehension in the age of twitter...
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post #522 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thebrieze01 View Post
State of reading comprehension in the age of twitter...
I read his comment just fine but I was seeking further clarification & conformation of the source of the information.

I get the impression English is not the posters mother tongue & things can get lost in translation.

We have been told by dealers & distributors in the past dates of firmware releases in this very thread in fact. They have come & gone with no release.

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post #523 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
20th of January, is that directly from Arcam or from the distributor?

Makes a big difference.
Firmwares/softwares are supposed to post in this website/server first then on manufactures websites for public download:

http://www.arcamupdate.co.uk/store/Avatar_Upgrades/

Also, the same page confirms that it's Arcam who provides the firmwares/softwares for JBL and AudioControl units as well.

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post #524 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Firmwares/softwares are supposed to post in this website/server first then on manufactures websites for public download:

http://www.arcamupdate.co.uk/store/Avatar_Upgrades/

Also, the same page confirms that it's Arcam who provides the firmwares/softwares for JBL and AudioControl units as well.
Well, unfortunately that doesn't make feel any better about the JBL SDP 55..which is the one I have been eyeing. Arcam's firmware has come out of the gates with a big whiff.
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post #525 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Also, the same page confirms that it's Arcam who provides the firmwares/softwares for JBL and AudioControl units as well.

Oh dear
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post #526 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Well, unfortunately that doesn't make feel any better about the JBL SDP 55..which is the one I have been eyeing. Arcam's firmware has come out of the gates with a big whiff.
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Oh dear
Contrary, I feel good knowing that is Arcam who is providing the firmware for all units because AudioControl and JBL won't stop hammering Arcam until they get the software right. Now you know why AudioControl and JBL are releasing their units by late March.

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post #527 of 586 Old 01-13-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Contrary, I feel good knowing that is Arcam who is providing the firmware for all units because AudioControl and JBL won't stop hammering Arcam until they get the software right. Now you know why AudioControl and JBL are releasing their units by late March.

I sure hope you are right for all the folks that have already made the leap.
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post #528 of 586 Old 01-14-2020, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Contrary, I feel good knowing that is Arcam who is providing the firmware for all units because AudioControl and JBL won't stop hammering Arcam until they get the software right. Now you know why AudioControl and JBL are releasing their units by late March.
Do you mean that it is Arcam who is providing the software for the AudioControl and JBL products too? Any source for that?

Also, since it is Harman (indirectly Samsung) who owns all of these brands (at least Arcam and JBL), shouldn’t Harman make sure the SW quality is sufficient before release, if the Harman brands are to be trusted?
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post #529 of 586 Old 01-14-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Do you mean that it is Arcam who is providing the software for the AudioControl and JBL products too? Any source for that?

Also, since it is Harman (indirectly Samsung) who owns all of these brands (at least Arcam and JBL), shouldn’t Harman make sure the SW quality is sufficient before release, if the Harman brands are to be trusted?
Looks like as the firmware/software files for AudioControl and JBL processors are stored in Arcam's UK servers.

http://www.arcamupdate.co.uk/store/Avatar_Upgrades/
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post #530 of 586 Old 01-14-2020, 09:26 PM
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Interesting how similar the file sizes and modify dates are. Can someone compare the md5 hashes to see if they are identical?

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post #531 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 09:50 AM
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Interesting how similar the file sizes and modify dates are. Can someone compare the md5 hashes to see if they are identical?

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No need, the .json files for the Arcam AVRx0 and JBL point tho the same .swu file.
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post #532 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 11:36 AM
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I was interested in JBL processor as well and after seeing all the issues will not be getting on a preorder list. If new firmware comes out along with dirac and looks stable mostly, I will jump in as well.
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post #533 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 11:52 AM
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An update. The Dirac firmware update is "imminent" plus some firmware patches. As in, it should drop soon (beta testing as we speak). There is an internal Harman conference call a little later today. I'll be getting an update later. Soon could mean today. Or soon could mean next week. I'd be surprised if soon means any longer than a month-end.

I sitting on my Arcam inventory (receivers and prepros) that I have refused to sell. So while a few customers who have gotten them want the firmware updated, I am about 20 times more anxious than they are. So I have been closely monitoring the state-of-the-state. Fingers crossed.

It's fair to assume that some things like Auro3D won't be in this update. I predict some but not all bugs will be fixed. I have no internal knowledge on that last sentence other than I've been through this process a time or two in 22 years of doing this. This includes recent releases from boutique brands like Lyngdorf, Bryston, Krell, Arcam, and others. I REALLY hope they get much closer on this patch. Time will tell.

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post #534 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 12:34 PM
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Lets be honest. If Harman/Samsung can't get it right, nobody can get it right then. They have unlimited budget and resources to get things right, I would say even more than D&M.

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post #535 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Lets be honest. If Harman/Samsung can't get it right, nobody can get it right then. They have unlimited budget and resources to get things right, I would say even more than D&M.
Reality paints a different picture. Or do you mean that they will get it right eventually - if so when?

If they have unlimited resources, and that is the only key to good SW quality, why didn't they get it right already upon release? They could have just thrown more resources at the problem to get sufficient SW quality in time for the original release of the AVRs?

Maybe they have just outsourced the SW development to the lowest cost site. A lot of big companies do. That can bite you in the a** if you're not careful.

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Lets be honest. If Harman/Samsung can't get it right, nobody can get it right then. They have unlimited budget and resources to get things right, I would say even more than D&M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Reality paints a different picture. Or do you mean that they will get it right eventually - if so when?

If they have unlimited resources, and that is the only key to good SW quality, why didn't they get it right already upon release? They could have just thrown more resources at the problem to get sufficient SW quality in time for the original release of the AVRs?
Enricoclaudio, I know what you are saying but I just don't think it works out that way in the real world. When Samsung acquires companies, its not to throw more resources at them..it's usually to maximize profits (cut costs and staff) and try to find synergies. A Samsung TV firmware engineer isn't just going to jump on Arcam conference calls to help out their engineers. Skill sets and invisible corporate walls are going to prohibit that from ever happening. Just more ramblings from an HT enthusiast (me) who can't believe Arcam released the product they did in the state they did
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post #537 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Reality paints a different picture. Or do you mean that they will get it right eventually - if so when?

If they have unlimited resources, and that is the only key to good SW quality, why didn't they get it right already upon release? They could have just thrown more resources at the problem to get sufficient SW quality in time for the original release of the AVRs?
Because "Officially" Arcam hasn't released the new line of receivers and processors yet. Dealers like Crutchfield and Best Buy have them in stock but not selling them "On Line". In fact, I went to my local Magnolia/Best Buy to check them physically and to test to see if they are selling them and they said they can sell me one but they are not officially authorized by Arcam to sell due to glitchy software. @SteveH have them in stock too and decided to not sell as well. Why Arcam is shipping them to dealers? I have no idea but what I do know is Arcam officially hasn't released them yet, at least not in the USA.

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post #538 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 04:06 PM
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Lets be honest. If Harman/Samsung can't get it right, nobody can get it right then. They have unlimited budget and resources to get things right, I would say even more than D&M.
I'd say it differently. In 2020, I heavily bet Samsung bought Harman for their car-related business and not their earbud business.

Harman engages in boutique home audio to help sell CAR audio at a mere $2+ billion dollars in sales. Mark Levinson monoblocks are designed and manufactured for Mark Levinson car audio (Lexus). Lexicon was promoted to help spec into the Hyundai Genesis. Revel took more than a decade to get speced into Lincoln. Etc. If I'm right, call me a fortune-teller, we should expect to see Arcam speakers in __________ car in the next decade. And while I am predicting, I bet it will be a British car brand.

While we are at it, Harman also manufactures the speakers for B&W car audio for Maserati (not a typo) as well as the B&O car speakers in the Audi (again, not a typo). Think name licensing. Additionally, once they get their foot in the door for car speakers, they spec into vehicle heads-up display, etc (see https://car.harman.com/insights/arti...YaAqxUEALw_wcB ) Therefore Harman vehicle business as a whole equals billions of dollars in future bookings.

Big picture, Arcam NOW has deeper pockets than say D&M, but they still have a fraction of the engineers. The total horsepower rated in engineering hours is going to make the product relatively bug free. It's why D&M is so reliable in comparison to EVERY boutique lines put together. It just is. But... No Dirac.

I'm with you, Arcam will get it right. But not because Samsung/Harman bought them. Rather, Arcam's relationship with Harman means they need a quality reputation (future car speakers). I suspect this is a situation where the sales team wanted a product before engineering wanted to release. BB/Magnolia knew Dirac would be delayed. Again, this last paragraph is my interpretation. I could be way off.

Steve (Owner) Sound Video

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post #539 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 04:21 PM
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I'd say it differently. In 2020, I heavily bet Samsung bought Harman for their car-related business and not their earbud business.

Harman engages in boutique home audio to help sell CAR audio at a mere $2+ billion dollars in sales. Mark Levinson monoblocks are designed and manufactured for Mark Levinson car audio (Lexus). Lexicon was promoted to help spec into the Hyundai Genesis. Revel took more than a decade to get speced into Lincoln. Etc. If I'm right, call me a fortune-teller, we should expect to see Arcam speakers in __________ car in the next decade. And while I am predicting, I bet it will be a British car brand.

While we are at it, Harman also manufactures the speakers for B&W car audio for Maserati (not a typo) as well as the B&O car speakers in the Audi (again, not a typo). Think name licensing. Additionally, once they get their foot in the door for car speakers, they spec into vehicle heads-up display, etc (see https://car.harman.com/insights/arti...YaAqxUEALw_wcB ) Therefore Harman vehicle business as a whole equals billions of dollars in future bookings.

Big picture, Arcam NOW has deeper pockets than say D&M, but they still have a fraction of the engineers. The total horsepower rated in engineering hours is going to make the product relatively bug free. It's why D&M is so reliable in comparison to EVERY boutique lines put together. It just is. But... No Dirac.

I'm with you, Arcam will get it right. I suspect this is a situation where the sales team wanted a product before engineering wanted to release. BB/Magnolia knew Dirac would be delayed. Again, this last paragraph is my interpretation. I could be way off.
Part of D&M reliability rest on the fact that they have been using the same DSP/REQ platform for more than a decade (Audyssey) with basically ZERO changes audio wise. Mayor change occurred after the introduction of ATMOS on 2015 then HDR/Dolby Vision back in 2017. Sound wise, REQ still the same since 2008 (Audyssey XT32, Audyssey XT and Audyssey EQ). Let's remember that for some of the D&M receivers took almost 2 years to get the ATMOS upgrade via firmware. The New Arcams based processors are a totally brand new platform without any precedence. Different DSP, DACs and REQ (Dirac 2.0 + Dirac Bass Management module) so most definitely challenging even for D&M if it was their case.

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post #540 of 586 Old 01-15-2020, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Part of D&M reliability rest on the fact that they have been using the same DSP/REQ platform for more than a decade (Audyssey) with basically ZERO changes audio wise. Mayor change occurred after the introduction of ATMOS on 2015 then HDR/Dolby Vision back in 2017. Sound wise, REQ still the same since 2008 (Audyssey XT32, Audyssey XT and Audyssey EQ). Let's remember that for some of the D&M receivers took almost 2 years to get the ATMOS upgrade via firmware. The New Arcams based processors are a totally brand new platform without any precedence. Different DSP, DACs and REQ (Dirac 2.0 + Dirac Bass Management module) so most definitely challenging even for D&M if it was their case.
Agreed ^^. My broader point was D&M has a ton of engineering horsepower which is a big help. If D&M flipped their entire platform to a new design, they would certainly have release pains.
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