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post #61 of 274 Old 11-08-2019, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I found this Audioholics YouTube video where info about the new AVR lineup is presented:


The video is of Jim Garrett the Sr. Director of Product Strategy and planning in the Harman Luxury Audio Group that ARCAM are now within. The video is recorded at CEDIA 2019.

At least one new tech spec I learned from the video: AVR20/30 & AV40 support Auro-3D, AVR10 does not.
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post #62 of 274 Old 11-08-2019, 05:24 PM
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^^^

Well based on the comments above the new single or multiple sub release will be available for a fee from DiRac.

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post #63 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 10:22 AM
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What is the real difference and or benefit of the HDA range of equipment verses the legacy FMJ series of equipment?
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post #64 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Karczewski View Post
What is the real difference and or benefit of the HDA range of equipment verses the legacy FMJ series of equipment?
For AVR20/30 & AV40 we get 16ch processing instead of just 12ch.

So in other words can do nice stuff like 9.1.6 or 7.5.4 with individually calibrated subwoofers.

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post #65 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Karczewski View Post
What is the real difference and or benefit of the HDA range of equipment verses the legacy FMJ series of equipment?
Some of the functionality added in the new HDA generation:

3 Dirac calibration slots (previous generation had 1), support for Dirac Bass management module, Auro-3D (on selected models), new DAC, Google cast & Android UPnP, IMAX Enhanced, HDMI 2.0b & HDCP 2.2 (previous generation has HDMI 2.0a), eARC, more channels, Wifi & Bluetooth.

In addition, the new generation also has the potential of sounding better. But that we'll have to see when actual reviews are published (and users start providing opinions on that).

Might be more known later as additional details start to emerge and are published.
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post #66 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Some of the functionality added in the new HDA generation:

3 Dirac calibration slots (previous generation had 1), support for Dirac Bass management module, Auro-3D (on selected models), new DAC, Google cast & Android UPnP, IMAX Enhanced, HDMI 2.0b & HDCP 2.2 (previous generation has HDMI 2.0a), eARC, more channels, Wifi & Bluetooth.

In addition, the new generation also has the potential of sounding better. But that we'll have to see when actual reviews are published (and users start providing opinions on that).

Might be more known later as additional details start to emerge and are published.


IMAX Enhanced is available in the previous lineup.
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post #67 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Some of the functionality added in the new HDA generation:

3 Dirac calibration slots (previous generation had 1), support for Dirac Bass management module, Auro-3D (on selected models), new DAC, Google cast & Android UPnP, IMAX Enhanced, HDMI 2.0b & HDCP 2.2 (previous generation has HDMI 2.0a), eARC, more channels, Wifi & Bluetooth.

In addition, the new generation also has the potential of sounding better. But that we'll have to see when actual reviews are published (and users start providing opinions on that).

Might be more known later as additional details start to emerge and are published.
I'm not in the "all amps/preamp sound the same camp". But I'm in the "room correction can make many more times of a difference that the preamp section camp".

With that said, I've done many comparisons between the preamp section of the AV860/MC10 and other prepros (side-by-side). See one of several comparisons pictured below. WITHOUT room correction (stereo large; level matched), I thought the Lexicon MC-10 sounded "thinner" than the NAD or 8805. The Lyngdorf MP-50 (another comparison grouping that isn't pictured) was to the next level. Again, ignoring auto EQ (which is on the docket in January). So putting it another way, the Lexicon barely beat the Marantz AV7705. We had multiple sets of ears present. I carry all of these and I strongly prefer to sell more expensive stuff, but I'm just calling it like it is. Again, no room EQ was engaged. Where that stack below was pictured, it was in a customers home who had his room treatments dialed in. Looks was 2nd; measurement performance was 1st.

That said, the boys at the Arcam booth explained that the AV40 "is a whole new platform" and "it sounds better". I solicited each key engineer present (and those who heard it) and they were very confident with that statement. I was told they paid extreme close attention to the jitter (normally related to noise that flips and flops bits) on this new design. That's usually the culprit. So with any luck, the new platform will be to the next level. I will be comparing them all in multiple settings again.

Fingers crossed!
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post #68 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 03:22 PM
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IMAX Enhanced is available in the previous lineup.
Can it be disabled?

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post #69 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 03:45 PM
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Can it be disabled?


There is no on/off toggle but only one mode supports IMAX Enhanced, so if you choose another mode I guess you can get rid of it.
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post #70 of 274 Old 11-10-2019, 03:49 PM
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There is no on/off toggle but only one mode supports IMAX Enhanced, so if you choose another mode I guess you can get rid of it.
Ok, let's hope the IMAX Enhanced crossover changes can be overridden on these new units then.

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Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Panasonic TX65EZ952B, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
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post #71 of 274 Old 11-11-2019, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the pros/cons of IMAX Enhanced? Why would you want to disable it?
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post #72 of 274 Old 11-11-2019, 01:20 PM
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What are the pros/cons of IMAX Enhanced? Why would you want to disable it?
In the current implementation in most processors it will override the configured crossovers with a setting of 70Hz regardless of what your speakers are capable off during playback.

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Input : Nvidia Shield TV, Panasonic DMP-UB400
Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Panasonic TX65EZ952B, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
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post #73 of 274 Old 11-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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At this point it is a non issue considering the available catalogue of titles that support IMAX Enhanced.
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post #74 of 274 Old 11-11-2019, 03:02 PM
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I'm not in the "all amps/preamp sound the same camp". But I'm in the "room correction can make many more times of a difference that the preamp section camp".

With that said, I've done many comparisons between the preamp section of the AV860/MC10 and other prepros (side-by-side). See one of several comparisons pictured below. WITHOUT room correction (stereo large; level matched), I thought the Lexicon MC-10 sounded "thinner" than the NAD or 8805. The Lyngdorf MP-50 (another comparison grouping that isn't pictured) was to the next level. Again, ignoring auto EQ (which is on the docket in January). So putting it another way, the Lexicon barely beat the Marantz AV7705. We had multiple sets of ears present. I carry all of these and I strongly prefer to sell more expensive stuff, but I'm just calling it like it is. Again, no room EQ was engaged. Where that stack below was pictured, it was in a customers home who had his room treatments dialed in. Looks was 2nd; measurement performance was 1st.

That said, the boys at the Arcam booth explained that the AV40 "is a whole new platform" and "it sounds better". I solicited each key engineer present (and those who heard it) and they were very confident with that statement. I was told they paid extreme close attention to the jitter (normally related to noise that flips and flops bits) on this new design. That's usually the culprit. So with any luck, the new platform will be to the next level. I will be comparing them all in multiple settings again.

Fingers crossed!

I chatted with Audio Advice today and they felt the DAC in the AV40 was not as good as the FMJ Cirrus CS42528 audiophile DAC. I am looking to upgrade to Lexicon MC10 and sell off my AVR850.
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post #75 of 274 Old 11-11-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Karczewski View Post
I chatted with Audio Advice today and they felt the DAC in the AV40 was not as good as the FMJ Cirrus CS42528 audiophile DAC. I am looking to upgrade to Lexicon MC10 and sell off my AVR850.
You might want to have a look at the upcoming JBL preprocessor. It is supposed to have better DAC than the Arcam AV lineup.
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post #76 of 274 Old 11-11-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Karczewski View Post
I chatted with Audio Advice today and they felt the DAC in the AV40 was not as good as the FMJ Cirrus CS42528 audiophile DAC. I am looking to upgrade to Lexicon MC10 and sell off my AVR850.
That’s not what the folks in the UK told me nor the HARMAN staff at CEDIA.

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post #77 of 274 Old 11-12-2019, 04:38 AM
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That’s not what the folks in the UK told me nor the HARMAN staff at CEDIA.
Agreed. If sound quality could be summarized by a DAC chip, that sure would make it easy. This assumes they picked a "worse sounding DAC". But people who are designing the boards suggest how they lay out the circuit (dodging noise) is more important that the chip. i.e., shielding noise (DSP noise, power supply noise), re-clocking, using impedance matching devices, etc together will make far larger of a subjective differenc. i.e., lower jitter=="fuller" closer to the recording subjective sound quality.

Garret addressed this in the Audioholics interview (he discussed how they payed close attention to the jitter). If the analog section sounds worse than the outgoing generation, I'll be disappointed.
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post #78 of 274 Old 11-12-2019, 06:38 AM
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I'm not in the "all amps/preamp sound the same camp". But I'm in the "room correction can make many more times of a difference that the preamp section camp".

With that said, I've done many comparisons between the preamp section of the AV860/MC10 and other prepros (side-by-side). See one of several comparisons pictured below. WITHOUT room correction (stereo large; level matched), I thought the Lexicon MC-10 sounded "thinner" than the NAD or 8805. The Lyngdorf MP-50 (another comparison grouping that isn't pictured) was to the next level. Again, ignoring auto EQ (which is on the docket in January). So putting it another way, the Lexicon barely beat the Marantz AV7705. We had multiple sets of ears present. I carry all of these and I strongly prefer to sell more expensive stuff, but I'm just calling it like it is. Again, no room EQ was engaged. Where that stack below was pictured, it was in a customers home who had his room treatments dialed in. Looks was 2nd; measurement performance was 1st.

That said, the boys at the Arcam booth explained that the AV40 "is a whole new platform" and "it sounds better". I solicited each key engineer present (and those who heard it) and they were very confident with that statement. I was told they paid extreme close attention to the jitter (normally related to noise that flips and flops bits) on this new design. That's usually the culprit. So with any luck, the new platform will be to the next level. I will be comparing them all in multiple settings again.

Fingers crossed!
I'm considering moving from my Marantz 7704 (that you helped me acquire!! Shameless plug!) to either the Arcam AV40 or the new Monoprice HTP-1. I'm interested in a Dirac offering - and I'm very curious to hear your results.
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post #79 of 274 Old 11-12-2019, 12:05 PM
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Does the AV40 support DSD over HDMI ?
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post #80 of 274 Old 11-12-2019, 06:16 PM
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Review in German of the AVR20 and 30 with photos of the internals:

https://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-exk...precher-setup/
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post #81 of 274 Old 11-13-2019, 05:31 AM
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Any idea when we can expect a readily available supply in the States?
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post #82 of 274 Old 11-13-2019, 08:53 PM
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Any idea when we can expect a readily available supply in the States?


AV40 is December right?
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post #83 of 274 Old 11-15-2019, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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AV40 is December right?
Any source for that statement?
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post #84 of 274 Old 11-15-2019, 07:44 AM
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Any source for that statement?


I’m out and about so I don’t have it in front of me, but the thread that compares all of the 16 channel pre/pros has a chart on the front with updates.

I saw that I believe in the UK forum as well.
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post #85 of 274 Old 11-15-2019, 08:48 AM
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Any source for that statement?

Nope, that is an estimated delivery date as I have just spoke to my dealer & there is no confirmed delivery date from Arcam.
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What are the differences feature-wise between the AVR20 and AVR40 beyond balanced outputs? You're going to need at least two external amps to support 12+ channels and who has the room for that? I prefer to keep amplification separate but would rather not have to upgrade my rack to get another amp in there, plus the AVR40 is $500 more expensive.
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post #87 of 274 Old 11-15-2019, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the differences feature-wise between the AVR20 and AVR40 beyond balanced outputs? You're going to need at least two external amps to support 12+ channels and who has the room for that? I prefer to keep amplification separate but would rather not have to upgrade my rack to get another amp in there, plus the AVR40 is $500 more expensive.

From what was said in the video linked to in this post, I get the impression that the feature set is identical on AVR20/30 and AVR40. The audio components differ though, so power amplification (for AVR20 vs AVR30) and audio quality (AVR20 vs AVR30 vs AV40) also differ accordingly. And that's important.
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What is audio quality and why should it differ?
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post #89 of 274 Old 11-15-2019, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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What is audio quality and why should it differ?
Different transformer, different amplifier technology (A/B vs G), and possibly different capacitors/transistors/etc. Everything in that audio path affects the audio quality. If you believe otherwise, why not buy the cheapest AVR possible? You should probably be able to get one for $100. But then this Arcam AVR thread is probably not the right one for you.
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post #90 of 274 Old 11-15-2019, 04:07 PM
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What is audio quality and why should it differ?
I don't know if it will be the case for this new generation but around but last generation the Arcam prepro got better opamps to go with the XLR outputs meaning it had a better overall DAC section.
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