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post #91 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 12:27 AM
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The cheapest amps do not have dirac. I do not think amps do sound different, I am in the market for features not for snakeoil.
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post #92 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 03:15 AM
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What would be the « best » combination of Arcam amps for someone looking at the AVR30 for a 9.1.6 setup?
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post #93 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm assuming you are intending to use the built-in amplification that comes with the AVR30 for the 7 primary channels ([email protected])? In that case you need to add 8 more channels of amplifications for the 9.1.6 setup.

Some possible options:
1. 2xPA410 ([email protected] each). Total cost: 2x£1300=£2600. US price unknown but approximately=$3200
2. 1xPA720 ([email protected]) + 1xPA240 ([email protected]). Total cost: 1x$3000 + 1x$2500=$5500
3. 4xPA240 ([email protected] each). Total cost: 4x$2500=$10000

With option 2 you might want to use the PA240 for the front left&right speakers, since the PA240 is more powerful than the built-in amplification in the AVR30. Similar for option 3 of course.

Also, note that option 1 (i.e. PA410) will not be available until April 2020.
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post #94 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 07:08 AM
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I thought about option 2 but can you actually use the external amp for L/R? It would assume that you can reassign the L/R built in amp.
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post #95 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasta666 View Post
I thought about option 2 but can you actually use the external amp for L/R? It would assume that you can reassign the L/R built in amp.
I wouldn't count on that as all speaker outputs have set labels looking at the rear panel.

If you are going with the AVR30 I would assume you do it for the class G amp's built in which means you will suffer the stupidity of Arcam not doing any 4/8ch class G amp.

You may as well get the AVR20 and 2x PA410's for same
amplification of all channels.

Another option is to get an AVR20 and nice class D 8ch amp from say Nord Acoustics and at a later stage another 7ch class D amp. From then on you can either use AVR's or pre-pro's for you 9.1.6.

I will however not consider the Arcam's for 9.1.6 until they officially support DTS:X Pro.

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post #96 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 07:43 AM
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Is there a manual download for this yet?

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post #97 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Nope, no manual published on the Arcam website yet for the AV/AVR/PA products in the new HDA range. They only have spec sheets published.

The only products in the HDA range that currently have manuals published are SA20/30 (integrated stereo amps) and CDS50 (CD player). See e.g. for SA20 here:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/products,HDA....htm#downloads
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post #98 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasta666 View Post
I thought about option 2 but can you actually use the external amp for L/R? It would assume that you can reassign the L/R built in amp.
IIRC the only amp channels you can reassign are RRS and LRS.

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post #99 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 12:19 PM
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AVR20 and a 7 channel amp for front three and Atmos seems like a solid combo for my plans for 7.3.4.
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post #100 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you considering the PA710 for the external 7 channel amp? And if so, is the reason you intend to use it for the front three channels (in addition to the four height channels) that is has slightly higher power output than the built-in channels (100W vs 90W @ 8 Ohm)?

Also, this setup would leave three unused amplification channels on the AVR20, right?
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post #101 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Are you considering the PA710 for the external 7 channel amp? And if so, is the reason you intend to use it for the front three channels (in addition to the four height channels) that is has slightly higher power output than the built-in channels (100W vs 90W @ 8 Ohm)?

Also, this setup would leave three unused amplification channels on the AVR20, right?
The PA710 is overpriced. Probably go with Monoprice or Emotiva, either would provide better output than the AVR20 to those channels, where it's needed. Yep, there would be unused channels in the AVR20. I want to stick to a 2 box solution, not three.
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post #102 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 02:51 PM
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Right now I have my floor speakers driven by Emotiva amps (XPA-3 and 2 x XPA-200s) and the ATMOS speakers with the Denon X6500H internal amps. On the AVR20/AVR30, you can't reassign the SR amps for ATMOS so in my case I'll be driving the SR and SRB speakers with the AVR20 internal amps and FR, FL and C with the XPA-3 and the 4 ATMOS speakers with the pair of XPA-200. Leaving 3 amps unused in the AVR20/AVR30 will make the receiver run cooler and will increase efficiency of the used internal amps.

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post #103 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 02:56 PM
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Question Arcam AV-40

Hello Everyone,
Anyone auditioned or own an Arcam AV-40. I am in the waitlist for this amp. I would like your opinions. Major concern based on recent research is reliability and bugs on Arcam units. I have a Marantz 8801 which is rock solid and sounds good with Audyssey Pro. I hear the Dirac Live is a step above Audyssey Pro. Is that indeed true? How will this amp work out in a 2-channel stereo setup? Moving from 5.1 to 7.1.6 Atmos.
Thanks,
Jai
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post #104 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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No feedback on the AV40 that' I've seen. But there's someone that have auditioned the related AV20&30 from the same HDA range, see this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...410-720-a.html
And this post specifically. There's also a pre-review from a German site in that thread.
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post #105 of 629 Old 11-16-2019, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post
Hello Everyone,
Anyone auditioned or own an Arcam AV-40. I am in the waitlist for this amp. I would like your opinions. Major concern based on recent research is reliability and bugs on Arcam units. I have a Marantz 8801 which is rock solid and sounds good with Audyssey Pro. I hear the Dirac Live is a step above Audyssey Pro. Is that indeed true? How will this amp work out in a 2-channel stereo setup? Moving from 5.1 to 7.1.6 Atmos.
Thanks,
Jai

After owning the last generation (FMJ) I would wait a month after people start getting these units in their hands to see what the lay of the land is.



You would think with the cost of these units quality control would not be an issue but as you have alluded to that is not necessarily the case.
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post #106 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 02:39 AM
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It is supposed to do the crossover bit, guess we will know in full once it is released.

That's correct Mashie, even with the Tier 3 version of Dirac Bass Management, which will be free, Dirac Live will manage the crossover replacing the AVR's one.

By using a dedicated channel it will time-align the sub to the main speakers and will compute and display in real-time the combined results of sub + mains at the crossover region of frequencies.

As a result, the user will be able to choose the crossover frequency that offers the best results.

For Tier 3 there is no guidance for which the best choices are, you will have to use your own knowledge for that.

Tier 2 instead will compute the best crossover frequency automatically and correct the combined response while Tier 3 doesn't

Tier 2 works with the phase _and_ the magnitude to achieve a better summation, something that cannot be done manually in Tier 3.

Finally, Tier 1 will correct the respective interactions among multiple subs as well as their interactions with the speakers at the crossover frequency

Flavio
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Last edited by flax; 11-19-2019 at 01:53 AM.
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post #107 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by flax View Post
That's correct Mashie, even with the Tier 1 version of Dirac Bass Management, which will be free, Dirac Live will manage the crossover replacing the AVR's one.

By using a dedicated channel it will time-align the sub to the main speakers and will compute and display in real-time the combined results of sub + mains at the crossover region of frequencies.

As a result, the user will be able to choose the crossover frequency that offers the best results.

For Tier 1 there is no guidance for which the best choices are, you will have to use your own knowledge for that.

Tier 2 instead will compute the best crossover frequency automatically and correct the combined response while tier 1 doesn't

Tier 2 works with the phase _and_ the magnitude to achieve a better summation, something that cannot be done manually in Tier 1.

Finally, Tier 3 will correct the respective interactions among multiple subs as well as their interactions with the speakers at the crossover frequency


Flavio

Thanks for the info Flavio, when are we going to see this module released as it seems long ago since it was announced. Will it be this year?
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post #108 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 07:04 AM
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Thanks for the info Flavio, when are we going to see this module released as it seems long ago since it was announced. Will it be this year?
There is no official date however there is a public beta program open for testing the software on PC's running 2.x systems. In other words it shouldn't be that far away now.

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post #109 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 11:42 AM
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Thanks for the info Flavio, when are we going to see this module released as it seems long ago since it was announced. Will it be this year?

Hi Adam,
sorry, I can't say when it's going to be available



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post #110 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 06:32 PM
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Hi Adam,
sorry, I can't say when it's going to be available

Flavio
Fair enough Flavio, I am sure you are aware of the other threads over on AVForums we would just like to know if our AVR's will support tier two or three is all as we have been waiting for some time now since the announcement.
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post #111 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 07:23 PM
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I thought there was a CEDIA video from Audioholics and Harmon that stated it was supported but the end user needs to pay DiRac.

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post #112 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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If you are talking about the new HDA receiver range from Arcam being discussed in this thread, then yes it supports all three Dirac Live Bass Management Tiers. Tier 3 is included for free. Tier 2 and 1 can be bought from Dirac at an extra cost (when available).

The above is public info announced on the Arcam webpage. See this post that I wrote previously in this thread for more details.
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post #113 of 629 Old 11-17-2019, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Flavio,

Do you know what the price of the Tier 2 Dirac Live Bass Management module will be? Because there has been contradicting info announced regarding the price; The info here says $249, but the Arcam support said $200 as mentioned in this post.
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post #114 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
It is supposed to do the crossover bit, guess we will know in full once it is released.

That's correct Mashie, even with the Tier 1 version of Dirac Bass Management, which will be free, Dirac Live will manage the crossover replacing the AVR's one.

By using a dedicated channel it will time-align the sub to the main speakers and will compute and display in real-time the combined results of sub + mains at the crossover region of frequencies.

As a result, the user will be able to choose the crossover frequency that offers the best results.

For Tier 1 there is no guidance for which the best choices are, you will have to use your own knowledge for that.

Tier 2 instead will compute the best crossover frequency automatically and correct the combined response while tier 1 doesn't

Tier 2 works with the phase _and_ the magnitude to achieve a better summation, something that cannot be done manually in Tier 1.

Finally, Tier 3 will correct the respective interactions among multiple subs as well as their interactions with the speakers at the crossover frequency


[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] Flavio
Hi Flavio,
So will existing AVRs need a firmware update to support the new module ? I’m thinking the Arcam FMJ line.
Thanks
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post #115 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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Hi Flavio,
So will existing AVRs need a firmware update to support the new module ? I’m thinking the Arcam FMJ line.
Thanks
It depends on two things really, do the manufacturer's want to add this to old kit when they can make you upgrade to the latest and greatest.

Also is there enough processing power in the old kit to even enable this functionality?

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post #116 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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Hi Flavio,

Do you know what the price of the Tier 2 Dirac Live Bass Management module will be? Because there has been contradicting info announced regarding the price; The info here says $249, but the Arcam support said $200 as mentioned in this post.

We have found more interest than originally planned and eventually development costs could be spread on a larger number of units, as a result it's possible that the cost will be reduced to $199... I cannot say for sure though, it's just a possibility.
Let's wait and see

@AdamAttewell
Yes, as you say I'm aware of many of them but I can provide general info only... those are questions for the manufacturers to answer

Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)

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post #117 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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We have found more interest than originally planned and eventually development costs could be spread on a larger number of units, as a result it's possible that the cost will be reduced to $199... I cannot say for sure though, it's just a possibility.
Let's wait and see
I think Dirac will also sell more Tier 2 upgrades if it's priced at $199. Even that price seems quite high, especially since I assume the price will be the same regardless of AVR. And for some AVRs $199 would be quite a substantial increase of the total cost over the original AVR price.

Also, I'm not sure exactly what Tier 2 brings over Tier 3. The info here says:

"Tier 2 offers advanced setup for a single subwoofer, while also providing control over parameters and applying frequency filters to all speakers based on measurements."

But to be concrete, does this only mean that Dirac will guide the user in setting the crossover frequencies for the subwoofer and the other speakers? I.e. it will try to optimize the crossover frequencies, so the user does not have to manually guess/try-out what the optimal crossover settings are? Or does the Tier 2 do anything else than this compared to Tier3?
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post #118 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 02:42 PM
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I think Dirac will also sell more Tier 2 upgrades if it's priced at $199. Even that price seems quite high, especially since I assume the price will be the same regardless of AVR. And for some AVRs $199 would be quite a substantial increase of the total cost over the original AVR price.

Also, I'm not sure exactly what Tier 2 brings over Tier 3. The info here says:

"Tier 2 offers advanced setup for a single subwoofer, while also providing control over parameters and applying frequency filters to all speakers based on measurements."

But to be concrete, does this only mean that Dirac will guide the user in setting the crossover frequencies for the subwoofer and the other speakers? I.e. it will try to optimize the crossover frequencies, so the user does not have to manually guess/try-out what the optimal crossover settings are? Or does the Tier 2 do anything else than this compared to Tier3?

I am not a fan of this nickle and diming policy. If they can't offer the full thing as standard than they should offer at least tier 2 as standard and make tier 1 addon. When you spend $4-5K for receiver or processor, it should have advanced calibrations. Even Audyssey AVRs line Marantz and Denon offer 2 sub independent calibration although not at this level.

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post #119 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 03:00 PM
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I think you guys are getting the hierarchy upside down.

Tier 3 offers the most, which presumably includes everything the lower tiers offer.


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Also, I'm not sure exactly what Tier 2 brings over Tier 3.
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If they can't offer the full thing as standard than they should offer at least tier 2 as standard and make tier 1 addon.
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post #120 of 629 Old 11-18-2019, 03:28 PM
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I think you guys are getting the hierarchy upside down.

Tier 3 offers the most, which presumably includes everything the lower tiers offer.

Information about Tiers from Dirac
  • Tier 1 allows management of any number of subwoofers, analyzing each one to create a single-optimized sub channel that drives each subwoofer. It also enables precise control of frequency cutoffs for all speakers.
  • Tier 2 offers advanced setup for a single subwoofer, while also providing control over parameters and applying frequency filters to all speakers based on measurements.
  • Tier 3 is a free module for all current Dirac Live customers and OEMs, permitting standard bass management with the added benefit of predictive results.
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