Arcam AVR10/20/30 & AV40 & PA240/410/720 - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 267 Old 11-27-2019, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
The major point was the OP stated he had never seen a pre-pro costing less. Two quick examples were provided.

Not if you by OP mean me, who started this thread. Because the claim was made in this post, which I did not write.
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post #212 of 267 Old 11-27-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Thanks for sharing your listening impressions. May I ask if you only auditioned the AVR20 & AVR30 in two channel (stereo) mode? If so, perhaps the difference will be greater between the AVR 20 and AVR30 in a setup where 5 or 7 of the built-in amplification channels are used, which puts more load on the amplification?
That's a good point. On Nov. 4 when I initially auditioned both AVRs with a movie as well. My ears did not hear a $2000 difference with the class G amp in the AVR30. But everyone hears differently.
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post #213 of 267 Old 11-27-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Not if you by OP mean me, who started this thread. Because the claim was made in this post, which I did not write.

Didn't mean you, sorry. I use OP liberally and meant it in terms of the OP on the topic at hand (pre-pro pricing). Call it laziness on my part lol
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post #214 of 267 Old 11-27-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PCW View Post
That's a good point. On Nov. 4 when I initially auditioned both AVRs with a movie as well. My ears did not hear a $2000 difference with the class G amp in the AVR30. But everyone hears differently.

Is class G supposed to sound better? I thought the advantage was efficiency; you can play class G at reference levels with all channels driven and it won't get hot. Can someone confirm?
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post #215 of 267 Old 11-27-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Is class G supposed to sound better? I thought the advantage was efficiency; you can play class G at reference levels with all channels driven and it won't get hot. Can someone confirm?


You should check the preview from AreaDVD and read reviews of the AVR550 and AVR850 from audiovision.
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post #216 of 267 Old 11-28-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Is class G supposed to sound better? I thought the advantage was efficiency; you can play class G at reference levels with all channels driven and it won't get hot. Can someone confirm?
Class G in the Arcam's work in class A and Class AB, so when in low to low normal volume not reference level it will be working in Class A, so the sound quality would be a lot better as there would be zero crossover distortion due to no switching of the transistors, but when you raise the volume and the low power rail does not have enough headroom, then it will switch to a high power rail and you will be in Class AB until the volume or should say load goes back down, then switches back to Class A.

So, while its using its lower power rail its using less electric, so you saving on your energy bills and it sounds better too, clever stuff.
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post #217 of 267 Old 11-29-2019, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any disadvantage to Class G? Does it e.g. cost more to produce, and if so why? Otherwise why do not everyone use Class G instead of AB?
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post #218 of 267 Old 11-29-2019, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Is there any disadvantage to Class G? Does it e.g. cost more to produce, and if so why? Otherwise why do not everyone use Class G instead of AB?
Yes, it’s way more expensive to produce due to vastly more components used in manufacture, it needs some sort of computer made for the job to keep a eye on the power usage in real time, so it can switch power rails instantly and monitor DC offsets I been told.

I think the Class G used by Arcam is there own type of class G as there was one made by Texas instruments that used class G, but it switched between class AB and class B, so not sure if it’s a patent thing for class G for Arcam.

The only drawback I can see if you are nitty-picky would be if you had your load from your speakers right where the low power rail was going to run out and it kept switching from class A to class AB, that would cause distortion I would imagine, but the volume would be loud at that point, so you may not even notice it as Class A comes into its own when dealing with low level detail that quiet.
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post #219 of 267 Old 12-01-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Is class G supposed to sound better? I thought the advantage was efficiency; you can play class G at reference levels with all channels driven and it won't get hot. Can someone confirm?

As per heat, I own a AVR 850 with 7 class G amplifiers. They get hot. Not as hot as my old AVR600 which was also Class G. Having owned three Arcam Receivers over the past 25 years I would not own another one with built in amplification. Why, all three that I have owned failed. The AVR600 over 5 times which Arcam credit me with a new AVR 850 which unfortunately has failed twice due to some faulty parts. Not sure if it was really heat related though? However the first failure was due to burned out amplifier capacitors. As per Class G sounding better, that is debatable? I have heard class A/B, class G, and now Class D. All sounded great. I now have opt to use three class D class amplifiers to power my LCR and couldn't be more happy. The AVR850 internal amps are for "surround fill" use only thus low demand. I am considering selling my AVR850 to go with a dedicated processor because I am tired of getting AVR's repaired due to internal faults which I do feel is due to the cramming of hot amplifiers in such a small chassis. Back in the day of two channel receivers there never seemed to be issues because the old chassis were huge and well ventilated and there was only one stereo amp inside. Plus the build in my opinion was better due to the components used back then. Speaking of the great work of manufactures of the 70's-80's.
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post #220 of 267 Old 12-01-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Karczewski View Post
As per heat, I own a AVR 850 with 7 class G amplifiers. They get hot. Not as hot as my old AVR600 which was also Class G. Having owned three Arcam Receivers over the past 25 years I would not own another one with built in amplification. Why, all three that I have owned failed. The AVR600 over 5 times which Arcam credit me with a new AVR 850 which unfortunately has failed twice due to some faulty parts. Not sure if it was really heat related though? However the first failure was due to burned out amplifier capacitors. As per Class G sounding better, that is debatable? I have heard class A/B, class G, and now Class D. All sounded great. I now have opt to use three class D class amplifiers to power my LCR and couldn't be more happy. The AVR850 internal amps are for "surround fill" use only thus low demand. I am considering selling my AVR850 to go with a dedicated processor because I am tired of getting AVR's repaired due to internal faults which I do feel is due to the cramming of hot amplifiers in such a small chassis. Back in the day of two channel receivers there never seemed to be issues because the old chassis were huge and well ventilated and there was only one stereo amp inside. Plus the build in my opinion was better due to the components used back then. Speaking of the great work of manufactures of the 70's-80's.
And this is why I have an Aircom T10 on top of each of my receivers, even that my Denon X6500H internal amps only drive my ATMOS speakers.
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post #221 of 267 Old 12-02-2019, 11:35 PM
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The New Arcam lineup is already showing up at Best Buy (AVR10, AVR20, AVR30 and AV40). All of them showing as "Sold Out" as they are waiting from Arcam's green light to sell to the public. Another online authorized dealer, Listen Up, has the AVR10 and AVR20 in stock and ready to ship. However, I wouldn't recommend anybody purchasing any of the Arcams until we know for sure that the new and fully working firmware is flashed into these units. I'm going to wait until the firsts reviews come out and Dirac Live and Auromatic are fully working on them. After almost 2 years as "beta tester" and broken promises from Emotiva, I fully learned my lesson.. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me
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post #222 of 267 Old 12-03-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The New Arcam lineup is already showing up at Best Buy (AVR10, AVR20, AVR30 and AV40). All of them showing as "Sold Out" as they are waiting from Arcam's green light to sell to the public. Another online authorized dealer, Listen Up, has the AVR10 and AVR20 in stock and ready to ship. However, I wouldn't recommend anybody purchasing any of the Arcams until we know for sure that the new and fully working firmware is flashed into these units. I'm going to wait until the firsts reviews come out and Dirac Live and Auromatic are fully working on them. After almost 2 years as "beta tester" and broken promises from Emotiva, I fully learned my lesson.. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me
I agree with the above. Being that I have owned three Arcam AVR's all which broke all have been fixed in one way or another. I would hold off on buying anything Arcam for at least 6 months to make sure all the bugs are found and or fixed. It sucks to ship back and forth to United Radio to get these fixed. I have been out of an AVR at least 60 days for repairs for the AVR 850. I have faith that United Radio is going to get it fixed right and I will keep using it but only for height and rear surround going forward. Separate amps for LCR.
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post #223 of 267 Old 12-04-2019, 09:17 AM
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User Manual is up at Arcam website for those interested:

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/AVR2...r%20Manual.pdf

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post #224 of 267 Old 12-04-2019, 10:13 AM
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The Arcam's look great on paper. They check all my needs and more. Looks like AURO 3D will be available on the 4 models. Also, Dirac Live has 3 presets available.

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post #225 of 267 Old 12-05-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The Arcam's look great on paper. They check all my needs and more. Looks like AURO 3D will be available on the 4 models. Also, Dirac Live has 3 presets available.

Hey Enrico, this AVR indeed ticks all the right boxes. I took the AVR20, since the specs are the same as the processor, and I don't feel the added value of the class G amps. (Anyway, i'll get the PA720 in January, which will give me the G class).

Concerning Auro3D, I wonder where you get the information. As you can see in the bottom, there is no auro3D: Dobly Atmos - Dobly Vision - Imax enhanced - DTS X - DTS X Virtual - Dirac Live - HDMI
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Xbox X, Rega, Nad, McIntosh & Focal
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post #226 of 267 Old 12-05-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Pierre b View Post
Hey Enrico, this AVR indeed ticks all the right boxes. I took the AVR20, since the specs are the same as the processor, and I don't feel the added value of the class G amps. (Anyway, i'll get the PA720 in January, which will give me the G class).

Concerning Auro3D, I wonder where you get the information. As you can see in the bottom, there is no auro3D: Dobly Atmos - Dobly Vision - Imax enhanced - DTS X - DTS X Virtual - Dirac Live - HDMI
Read the User Manual. Pages 8, 35 and 36.

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/AVR2...ueC_211119.pdf
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post #227 of 267 Old 12-05-2019, 02:56 PM
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Arcam released today a new firmware (v82) for the New HDA Line of receivers and processor. So most likely Arcam dealers should start selling right away. The new firmware is available for download from the Arcam website:

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/AVR3...System0v82.zip

Two things caught my attention on the list of fixes:

1.- OSD with Dolby Vision content. This is great news for me.
2.- Support of MQA Audio files. This is also cool as I use TIDAL as my primary music streaming service.

If I recall someone was asking if MQA was going to be supported, well the answer is YES.
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post #228 of 267 Old 12-05-2019, 03:37 PM
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Still no Dirac though.
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post #229 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 12:37 AM
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What I was referring to was Dirac Live's premium Bass Management feature. It's not available now and I believe the ETA for it is expected in early 2020. I can't find an official quote but regardless I see I was speaking too generally. I have no idea how limited the AVR20/30/40 are with respect to auto calibration if you were able to get your hands on one today beyond that.
What does the "Dirac Live's premium Bass Management" offer over the standard?

My AV-40 is on it's way. I was told it will have Dirac Live on it. What will I miss without the premium bass management? I have two subwoofers that are driven through a single sub out split into two.
Thanks,
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post #230 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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What does the "Dirac Live's premium Bass Management" offer over the standard?

My AV-40 is on it's way. I was told it will have Dirac Live on it. What will I miss without the premium bass management? I have two subwoofers that are driven through a single sub out split into two.
Thanks,
Jai

Regarding the different Dirac Live Bass Management Tiers, it has been discussed previously in this thread. See e.g. post starting here and onwards.
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post #231 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 10:21 AM
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I have two subwoofers that are driven through a single sub out split into two.
You will want to get rid of that splitter and plug those into independent channels in your new AV40. When do you expect to have it?
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post #232 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tyson1749 View Post
Hello all, I’m guessing I haven’t posted in AVS for almost a decade. Anyway, apparently I’m the first one in the country to have an AV40 in my home. I’ve never owned an Arcam and was super excited for this. I had a marantz 7703, then a Yamaha A-5200. I got this yesterday and it’s been an absolute disaster. All of my speakers snap crackle and pop, the remote becomes unresponsive, no Dirac, nowhere in the manual does it suggest logging into it throws its IP address. I spoke to Arcam tech support today, after 20 minutes he asked me what the firmware (wasn’t the user upgradable one) was. I told him and he said that should have never been in your hands with that firmware. The magnolia tech guy came out and spent 3 hours updating it, one problem it didn’t update the OSD portion. The OSD simply never flashed. Still have the same snap crackle and pops in my speakers where both the marantz and yammy were silent. Argh, they’re supposed to be overnighting one. I’ll keep you posted, essentially I have a 4500.00 paper weight at this point. I have hope that this is a one off and just a bad one for some reason, but I also know how it’s gone for Emotiva/monoprice etc with delays. But, this is Harmon...anyway, I’ll keep you posted.
Interesting how a new firmware update dropped and the OP went from this to crickets.
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post #233 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 02:56 PM
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Yes a new firmware dropped, I have no insight because mine won’t update. Been in contact with Arcam in fact I was called directly by them to let me know about the firmware update. Again, I think this one was made first thing on a Monday morning after someone went on a bender all weekend. I should have my new one Wednesday with the latest everything. Then I’ll post my impressions and whether or not the original issues persist.
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post #234 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
You will want to get rid of that splitter and plug those into independent channels in your new AV40. When do you expect to have it?
I actually got rid of a HP subsonic filter that does the splitting. I have a miniDSP which takes a single input and sends two outputs equivalent to a splitter. I can configure this to take two inputs and send two outputs. The miniDSP is used as a HP subsonic filter to save the drivers. My subs are tuned for 16 Hz and I have set the filter at 18Hz with a 48dB/Octave slope. The driver has a linear motor, so very quickly reaches limits with a 4000 watt amplifier. In what way do the independent channels make difference?
The AV40 is expected to arrive tomorrow? I have heard from no one else who has tried the unit yet or maybe I missed earlier posts in this thread or elsewhere. Does anyone else have this unit in hand? Am I going to be first lucky/unlucky one?
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post #235 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 08:03 PM
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Is the AVM-40 not an FMJ line and an HDA line?
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post #236 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 08:31 PM
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In what way do the independent channels make difference?
You'll be able to calibrate each subwoofer independently, rather than together, which should yield a better FR.

Last edited by Magnus_CA; 12-06-2019 at 08:34 PM.
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post #237 of 267 Old 12-06-2019, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
You'll be able to calibrate each subwoofer independently, rather than together, which should yield a better FR.
Makes sense theoretically. I hope to make some time this holiday season to do measurements and calibration. If I can get somewhere close to 2-ch stereo holy grail in a HT setup with Dirac-Live and all the good technology out there today, I will be happy to share.
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post #238 of 267 Old 12-07-2019, 10:28 PM
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Arcam AV-40 arrived

The AV-40 arrived. Some pics attached. 13 channels was not that easy to setup with space limitations. It sounds good in 2-ch stereo out of the box with zero calibration. I think the DACs and all electronics around it are fantastic and this is just an initial impression. I did encounter some bugs with DSD and other minor ones. DIRAC Live is not yet setup. Will post more if there is enough interest. Are there any other AV-40 owners here on avs? It will be good to learn from each other. As I understand, most dealers will be getting this only in Jan 2020.
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post #239 of 267 Old 12-07-2019, 10:36 PM
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This unit is not for the faint of heart considering the cost. I am pretty sure there are many hidden bugs. Here is a quick list from the first 30 minutes. I maybe doing something wrong, so please factor in learning curve.

1. Internal test tones did not work
2. While playing CDs, when you select the next track there is a brief static during transition
3. For DSD sources (Dire Straits Brothers in Arms SACD) with Oppo streaming to the AV-40, in stereo mode, I could still hear some leak into surround channels and clicking static. SACDs essentially will be unusable until the next firmware update. Hope it is just a FW update. Note that this is only for SACDs


No issues with video so far. Roku UHD works fine. Oppo video works fine.
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post #240 of 267 Old 12-07-2019, 10:49 PM
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Can you please post a photo of the OSD with the volume bar up and a second photo of the OSD after pressing the button on the remote that displays source input information, output video resolution, and audio track being decided? Thanks!
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