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-   -   Arcam AVR10/20/30 & AV40 & PA240/410/720 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3098290-arcam-avr10-20-30-av40-pa240-410-720-a.html)

Fjodor2000 10-25-2019 02:42 PM

Arcam AVR10/20/30 & AV40 & PA240/410/720
 
Arcam has revealed a complete new AV receiver range at CEDIA Expo 2019:

Articles:
https://www.whathifi.com/news/arcam-...-at-cedia-expo
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...e-gets-refresh

Full HDA receiver range at Arcam website:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/range/hda.htm

Main feature improvements compared to previous AVR generation:
* 3 Dirac calibration slots (previous generation has 1)
* Support for Dirac Bass Management Module. Tier 3 is included for free, Tier 2 and 1 can be bought as upgrade from Dirac.
* Crossover frequency can now be set differently per speaker pair. I.e. no need set the same crossover frequency for all speakers.
* Auro-3D (not on AVR10)
* New DAC (ESS 9026PRO, previous generation has Cirrus CS42528)
* Google cast & Android UPnP
* HDMI 2.0b & HDCP 2.2 (previous generation has HDMI 2.0a), with eARC.
* More channels
* Wifi & Bluetooth


AVRs:
AVR10: 7x60W/85W (@8/4Ohm), 12 channels, Class AB, frame-type transformer, 16.5 kg. MSRP: $2500/£2299.
AVR20: 7x90W/110W (@8/4Ohm), 16 channels, Class AB, toroidal transformer, 16.6 kg. MSRP: $4000/£2999.
AVR30: 7x100W/180W (@8/4Ohm), 16 channels, Glass G, toroidal transformer, 18.1kg. MSRP: $6000/£4999.

AV Processor:
AV40: 16 XLR outputs, 16 RCA outputs, pairs with PA240/410/720 power amplifiers, 10.6 kg. MSRP: $4500/£3749.

Common for AVR10/20/30 & AV40:
* Dolby Atmos & DTS:X decoding 9.1.6 (AVR20/30&AV40) 7.1.4 (AVR10). IMAX enhanced.
* 7 HDMI inputs, 3 HDMI outputs (AVR20/30&AV40) 2 HDMI outputs (AVR10), eARC compatible.
* 4K (UHD) HDMI2.0b with HDCP2.2
* Dirac Live® room correction
* ESS 9026PRO audiophile DAC
* Google Cast/UPnP capability for streaming audio
* Bluetooth, Wifi / Ethernet, RS232 and IR control
* Free MusicLife iOS and Android UPnP and control app
* Size (WxDxH): 433 x 422 x 171 mm (AVR10/20/30), 433 x 412 x 171 mm (AV40). Depth with volume knob included is 441 mm (AVR10/20/30), 431 mm (AV40).

Power amplifiers:
PA240: 2x225W/380W (@8/4Ohm), Class G, 18 kg. MSRP: $2500/£1999.
PA410: 4x50W/70W (@8/4Ohm), Class AB, 10 kg. MSRP: £1299.
PA720: 7x100W/140W (@8/4Ohm). Class G, 18 kg. MSRP: $3000/£2499.

Common for PA240/720/410: Toroidal transformer
Common for PA240/720: XLR & RCA inputs
Only PA410: RCA inputs.
Size (WxDxH): 433 x 425 x 171 mm (PA240), 433 x 414 x 171 mm (PA720), 433 x 290 x 102 mm (PA410)



AVR10/20/30 & AV40 image front (all look the same except for the logo in bottom left corner):

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/193/479_large.jpg

AVR10 image back:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/192/477_large.jpg

AVR20/30 image back:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/193/480_large.jpg

AV40 Processor image back:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/195/490_large.jpg





PA240/720 power amplifier image front (both look the same except for the logo in bottom left corner):

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/196/494_large.jpg

PA240 image back:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/196/495_large.jpg

PA720 image back:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/197/498_large.jpg


PA410 power amplifier image front:

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc-1/product/200/513_large.jpg

Fjodor2000 10-25-2019 02:48 PM

Some initial questions that would be nice to get answered:

* Is there any way to upgrade the HDMI inputs to HDMI 2.1 later?

* Do the AVRs support setting a separate cutoff frequency for different speakers? E.g. 40 Hz for front speakers, 120 Hz for rear, and 80 Hz for subwoofers? The previous generation AVRs did not support that.

Mashie Saldana 10-26-2019 06:13 AM

Thanks for starting this thread. The AVR20 combined with two of the soon released PA410's would be a nice system to drive a 9.1.6 setup.

It is a shame they have no plans to release a PA810 as it would have resulted in a minimalistic two box solution.

Iwanthd 10-26-2019 08:13 AM

The spec sheet for the AV40 Processor boasts about "dynamic Class G amplification".

Mashie Saldana 10-26-2019 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwanthd (Post 58734632)
The spec sheet for the AV40 Processor boasts about "dynamic Class G amplification".

Indeed, as did the press releases. Maybe they need to invest in a proof reader.

BigCoolJesus 10-27-2019 07:33 AM

Not sure how I missed the new Arcam HDA line info, but the AVR10 checks every single box I wanted in order to jump up to a Dirac offering (the NAD T778 was almost it but I changed my mind on that).

1) How has Arcams reliability usually been on new product launches? I know to always expect a few firmware fixes here and there, but are they usually like a more mainstream brand in that headaches are minimum or are they potentially like an Emotiva where you might have to learn to live with it (such as the HDMI handshake issues)?

2) For anyone who saw these in person or knows more about them, will they include an OSD? I believe I saw mention of the pre/pro having one in another thread but wasn't positive.

3) Is it advised to get a UMIK-1 to use instead of the included microphone?

4) Any good online dealer recommendation for the States? And is pricing under MSRP usually available?

Thanks!

Fjodor2000 10-27-2019 01:12 PM

Regarding the PA410, it is not published on the Arcam website yet. So in case anyone wonders where the tech specs in the original post are taken from, I got them from here:

https://dougbradyhifi.com/products/a...ower-amplifier

I hope they are correct.

Snowmanick 10-27-2019 03:12 PM

IIRC from the Harman video at Cedia, all the 16 ch models had the same processing and features, the differences were amplification (if it had any and if so, what class).

Has anyone heard if that’s correct or if features differ?

I keep seeing Roon and MQA come up, but nothing on the spec sheet or on the logo banner across the face plate of licensed tech. Can anyone confirm if these are going to be there?

Lastly, has anyone heard when these should be shipping in the US? The have an AVR 20 on order but am unsure when to expect it, and if some features are only on the AV 40 I can check with my dealer about changing my order.

madhuski 10-27-2019 05:17 PM

are the 420/720 Dante enabled? I notice the ethernet port on the back...

Mashie Saldana 10-27-2019 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhuski (Post 58739930)
are the 420/720 Dante enabled? I notice the ethernet port on the back...

My guess it is for IP management, not sure why it would be needed on an amp though.

mmiles 10-27-2019 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana (Post 58740072)
My guess it is for IP management, not sure why it would be needed on an amp though.

That would be my guess. Maybe the JBL Synthesis model has Dante.

BTW go to bed it’s way past midnight!

BigCoolJesus 10-27-2019 06:53 PM

Any guesses on if the onboard amps on the AVR10 will be completely assignable? I have a 5 channel amp that I'd like to off-load the LCR and Surr R+L onto and just run my four Atmos heights from the onboard amps...but not sure if that is allowed or if I have to use an external amp for the second pair of heights (based on the speaker post labels on the back).

Snowmanick 10-27-2019 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus (Post 58740226)
Any guesses on if the onboard amps on the AVR10 will be completely assignable? I have a 5 channel amp that I'd like to off-load the LCR and Surr R+L onto and just run my four Atmos heights from the onboard amps...but not sure if that is allowed or if I have to use an external amp for the second pair of heights (based on the speaker post labels on the back).

I don’t know for sure, but 99% sure only the rear surround are reassignable to heights. This is based off the current spec sheet, the interviews at the Arcam booth at Cedia, and how previous Arcam models worked.

mmiles 10-27-2019 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowmanick (Post 58740282)
I don’t know for sure, but 99% sure only the rear surround safe reassignable to heights. This is based off the current spec sheet, the interviews at the Arcam booth at Cedia, and how previous Arcam models worked.

Yep

BigCoolJesus 10-27-2019 07:36 PM

So for a 5.1.4 setup, one pair of heights will most likely have to be put on an external amp (the other pair would just use the rear surround amp)?

Not a huge issue, would have just liked to put my surrounds on the amp and keep all Atmos speakers on the AVR.

broodro0ster 10-28-2019 07:00 AM

I'm interested in the AVR10, but I would like to know if they use 24 or 12dB rolloff filters for the crossover.
I tried the AVR390 in the past, but returned it because the 12db rolloff filters caused issues with my bass.

Mashie Saldana 10-28-2019 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodro0ster (Post 58741238)
I'm interested in the AVR10, but I would like to know if they use 24 or 12dB rolloff filters for the crossover.
I tried the AVR390 in the past, but returned it because the 12db rolloff filters caused issues with my bass.

Is that even relevant if you use the Dirac Live Bass Management module?

broodro0ster 10-28-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana (Post 58741664)
Is that even relevant if you use the Dirac Live Bass Management module?

It depends on how the DL Bass Management module works. If the module controls the crossovers filter, then it's probably not an issue.
But if you have to choose a crossover in the AVR and the Dirac Live does phase optimisation around the crossover region, then the AVR's crossover filters are probably used.

Mashie Saldana 10-28-2019 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodro0ster (Post 58741682)
It depends on how the DL Bass Management module works. If the module controls the crossovers filter, then it's probably not an issue.
But if you have to choose a crossover in the AVR and the Dirac Live does phase optimisation around the crossover region, then the AVR's crossover filters are probably used.

It is supposed to do the crossover bit, guess we will know in full once it is released.

broodro0ster 10-28-2019 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana (Post 58741694)
It is supposed to do the crossover bit, guess we will know in full once it is released.

As far as I read the blog posts of Dirac, they will set the delay between indivdual subs and then equalise them to get the best inroom response. Just like Audyssey XT32 Bass EQ. But Dirac will also do phase optimalisation like Audyssey Pro. But if Dirac also controls the crossover filters, wasn't mentioned. And I'm also not sure if Dirac will be able to choose the optimal crossover from your system/room.

But's lets wait and see. I hope I'll be able to do an in home test when the Bass Management module is released.
The AVR10 looks likes a good choice to replace my NAD T758 V3 with (which I choose in favor of the AVR390 because bass management was bad on the Arcam AVR390)

Fjodor2000 10-29-2019 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 (Post 58732512)
Some initial questions that would be nice to get answered:

* Is there any way to upgrade the HDMI inputs to HDMI 2.1 later?

* Do the AVRs support setting a separate cutoff frequency for different speakers? E.g. 40 Hz for front speakers, 120 Hz for rear, and 80 Hz for subwoofers? The previous generation AVRs did not support that.

To get these questions answered, I contacted the Arcam support. In my opinion, the answers were very positive and professionally stated.

In short the answers were:

* Arcam has made every possible effort to make the AVRs upgradable to HDMI 2.1. This includes making the HDMI board easier to remove. Arcam has also done all that they can to ensure an upgrade will be possible should compatible hardware arrive in a timely fashion. But since a HDMI 2.1 certification process does not currently exist, nobody can know for sure. This applies to all AVRs manufacturers, and not just Arcam, despite any claims other manufacturers make of already being HDMI 2.1 compatible.

* The new AVRs do support different crossovers per speaker pair.

For the full answer from Arcam, see quote below:

Quote:

It isn't possible at this time to fully answer question 1. We have made the HDMI board easier to remove in the hope that an HDMI 2.1 board could be installed. However, despite what you may have seen online, there isn't actually an HDMI 2.1 certification process. You will see some devices on the market that might make claims of 8K or even saying they are HDMI 2.1 ready, but the fact is that nothing can be certified as ready until the certification process exists. The devices might conform to what will be the certification process, but this cannot be known until the process is available.

A similar thing happened with 4k -- many devices were released claiming to be 4k ready, or Ultra HD ready, or HDMI 2.0 ready, well before the certification was finalised, and at the last minute HDCP 2.2 was enforced and added, and many of the first wave of 4k products were incompatible. We do not wish to jump the gun and release something that will make claims of being HDMI 2.1 ready until we know that it absolutely will be. Our manufacturing partners have not yet manufactured any boards that can be called HDMI 2.1 ready as that represents a significant hardware development cost that will be wasted if it proves not to be the case.

The upshot of this preamble is that we have done all that we can to ensure an upgrade will be possible should compatible hardware arrive in a timely fashion. However, we simply do not know if the HDMI boards, when they launch, will be compatible with the rest of the unit, if the connectors will fit, or anything like that. We would have liked to have released this generation as an HDMI 2.1 platform, but outside factors determined that we could not wait any longer.

The new AVRs do support different crossovers per speaker pair.

hasta666 10-29-2019 03:32 PM

Thanks for the investigation.

blSwagger 10-30-2019 06:12 PM

How buggy are these Arcam AVRs expected to be compared to the previous/current generation? I ask because someone posted this link in another thread:


https://www.avforums.com/threads/new.../post-27488988


I'm willing to spend a significant premium on the AVR30 over the Anthem MRX 1120, but I want to make sure that I don't have any issues.

Fjodor2000 10-31-2019 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blSwagger (Post 58755234)
How buggy are these Arcam AVRs expected to be compared to the previous/current generation?

I guess that's hard to say since the new AVRs are not released yet. The only thing to go by would be the track record of previous generation AVRs. Is there anyone who can comment on those?

Fjodor2000 10-31-2019 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana (Post 58734390)
Thanks for starting this thread. The AVR20 combined with two of the soon released PA410's would be a nice system to drive a 9.1.6 setup.

It is a shame they have no plans to release a PA810 as it would have resulted in a minimalistic two box solution.

I would assume they are trying to fulfill the standard setups with the least amount of PA-variants needed.

Likely these combos:

AVR10/20/30: 7.1
AVR10/20/30 + PA410: 7.1.4
AVR20/30 + 2xPA410: 9.1.6

Or replace AVR10/20/30 with AV40 + PA720, and the same would apply.

hasta666 11-01-2019 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 (Post 58758774)
I guess that's hard to say since the new AVRs are not released yet. The only thing to go by would be the track record of previous generation AVRs. Is there anyone who can comment on those?



At this point there is only one known bug if I’m not mistaken: heights crossover is reset when the unit is powered down.

noah katz 11-01-2019 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodro0ster (Post 58741724)
As far as I read the blog posts of Dirac, they will set the delay between indivdual subs and then equalise them to get the best inroom response. Just like Audyssey XT32 Bass EQ.


I thought Audyssey did the former, but the latter required manual user intervention.



Quote:

Originally Posted by broodro0ster (Post 58741724)
But Dirac will also do phase optimalisation like Audyssey Pro.


Are you sure it does that?

It didn't when I had Pro many years ago.

nonstopdoc1 11-02-2019 01:14 AM

Any information on release/shipping date on these?

Fjodor2000 11-02-2019 03:55 AM

I have not seen any public official release/shipping date announced by Arcam yet. Perhaps it also differs per country.

The Articles linked to in the OP says they should be available in October. Some other info online says October/November. When checking some European online stores, I've seen everything from "in stock" to "sometime in November".

broodro0ster 11-02-2019 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah katz (Post 58762376)
I thought Audyssey did the former, but the latter required manual user intervention.

Are you sure it does that?

It didn't when I had Pro many years ago.

Audyssey XT32 first sets the sub delay for each sub (max 2 subs) so they play in phase. And then they get equalized as 1 sub.
Audyssey pro does also phase optimization. You have to choose a crossover and then it calculates the corresponding filter.


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