Arcam AVR10/20/30 & AV40 & PA240/410/720 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 127 Old 10-25-2019, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Arcam AVR10/20/30 & AV40 & PA240/410/720

Arcam has revealed a complete new AV receiver range at CEDIA Expo 2019:

Articles:
https://www.whathifi.com/news/arcam-...-at-cedia-expo
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...e-gets-refresh

Full HDA receiver range at Arcam website:
https://www.arcam.co.uk/range/hda.htm

AVRs:
AVR10: 7x60W/85W (@8/4Ohm), 12 channels, Class AB, frame-type transformer, 16.5 kg. MSRP: $2500/£2299.
AVR20: 7x90W/110W (@8/4Ohm), 16 channels, Class AB, toroidal transformer, 16.6 kg. MSRP: $4000/£2999.
AVR30: 7x100W/180W (@8/4Ohm), 16 channels, Glass G, toroidal transformer, 18.1kg. MSRP: $6000/£4999.

AV Processor:
AV40: 16 XLR outputs, 16 RCA outputs, pairs with PA240/410/720 power amplifiers, 10.6 kg. MSRP: $4500/£3749.

Common for AVR10/20/30 & AV40:
* Dolby Atmos & DTS:X decoding 9.1.6 (AVR20/30&AV40) 7.1.4 (AVR10). IMAX enhanced.
* 7 HDMI inputs, 3 HDMI outputs (AVR20/30&AV40) 2 HDMI outputs (AVR10), eARC compatible.
* 4K (UHD) HDMI2.0b with HDCP2.2
* Dirac Live® room correction
* ESS 9026PRO audiophile DAC
* Google Cast/UPnP capability for streaming audio
* Bluetooth, Wifi / Ethernet, RS232 and IR control
* Free MusicLife iOS and Android UPnP and control app
* Size: 433 x 425 x 171 mm

Power amplifiers:
PA240: 2x225W/380W (@8/4Ohm), Class G, 18 kg. MSRP: $2500/£1999.
PA410: 4x50W/70W (@8/4Ohm), Class AB, 10 kg. MSRP: £1299. (Not published on Arcam website yet.)
PA720: 7x100W/140W (@8/4Ohm). Class G, 18 kg. MSRP: $3000/£2499.

Common for PA240/720:
* Toroidal transformer
* XLR & RCA inputs
* Size: 433 x 425 x 177mm

AVR10/20/30 & AV40 image front (all look the same except for the logo in bottom left corner):



AVR10 image front:


AVR20/30 image back:


AV40 Processor image back:



PA240/720 power amplifier image front (all look the same except for the logo in bottom left corner):



PA240 image back:


PA720 image back:
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Last edited by Fjodor2000; 10-27-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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post #2 of 127 Old 10-25-2019, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Some initial questions that would be nice to get answered:

* Is there any way to upgrade the HDMI inputs to HDMI 2.1 later?

* Do the AVRs support setting a separate cutoff frequency for different speakers? E.g. 40 Hz for front speakers, 120 Hz for rear, and 80 Hz for subwoofers? The previous generation AVRs did not support that.
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post #3 of 127 Old 10-26-2019, 06:13 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread. The AVR20 combined with two of the soon released PA410's would be a nice system to drive a 9.1.6 setup.

It is a shame they have no plans to release a PA810 as it would have resulted in a minimalistic two box solution.

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post #4 of 127 Old 10-26-2019, 08:13 AM
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The spec sheet for the AV40 Processor boasts about "dynamic Class G amplification".
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post #5 of 127 Old 10-26-2019, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwanthd View Post
The spec sheet for the AV40 Processor boasts about "dynamic Class G amplification".
Indeed, as did the press releases. Maybe they need to invest in a proof reader.
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post #6 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 07:33 AM
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Not sure how I missed the new Arcam HDA line info, but the AVR10 checks every single box I wanted in order to jump up to a Dirac offering (the NAD T778 was almost it but I changed my mind on that).

1) How has Arcams reliability usually been on new product launches? I know to always expect a few firmware fixes here and there, but are they usually like a more mainstream brand in that headaches are minimum or are they potentially like an Emotiva where you might have to learn to live with it (such as the HDMI handshake issues)?

2) For anyone who saw these in person or knows more about them, will they include an OSD? I believe I saw mention of the pre/pro having one in another thread but wasn't positive.

3) Is it advised to get a UMIK-1 to use instead of the included microphone?

4) Any good online dealer recommendation for the States? And is pricing under MSRP usually available?

Thanks!
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post #7 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Regarding the PA410, it is not published on the Arcam website yet. So in case anyone wonders where the tech specs in the original post are taken from, I got them from here:

https://dougbradyhifi.com/products/a...ower-amplifier

I hope they are correct.
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post #8 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 03:12 PM
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IIRC from the Harman video at Cedia, all the 16 ch models had the same processing and features, the differences were amplification (if it had any and if so, what class).

Has anyone heard if that’s correct or if features differ?

I keep seeing Roon and MQA come up, but nothing on the spec sheet or on the logo banner across the face plate of licensed tech. Can anyone confirm if these are going to be there?

Lastly, has anyone heard when these should be shipping in the US? The have an AVR 20 on order but am unsure when to expect it, and if some features are only on the AV 40 I can check with my dealer about changing my order.
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post #9 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 05:17 PM
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are the 420/720 Dante enabled? I notice the ethernet port on the back...

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post #10 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
are the 420/720 Dante enabled? I notice the ethernet port on the back...
My guess it is for IP management, not sure why it would be needed on an amp though.

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post #11 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
My guess it is for IP management, not sure why it would be needed on an amp though.
That would be my guess. Maybe the JBL Synthesis model has Dante.

BTW go to bed it’s way past midnight!

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post #12 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 06:53 PM
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Any guesses on if the onboard amps on the AVR10 will be completely assignable? I have a 5 channel amp that I'd like to off-load the LCR and Surr R+L onto and just run my four Atmos heights from the onboard amps...but not sure if that is allowed or if I have to use an external amp for the second pair of heights (based on the speaker post labels on the back).
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post #13 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Any guesses on if the onboard amps on the AVR10 will be completely assignable? I have a 5 channel amp that I'd like to off-load the LCR and Surr R+L onto and just run my four Atmos heights from the onboard amps...but not sure if that is allowed or if I have to use an external amp for the second pair of heights (based on the speaker post labels on the back).
I don’t know for sure, but 99% sure only the rear surround are reassignable to heights. This is based off the current spec sheet, the interviews at the Arcam booth at Cedia, and how previous Arcam models worked.

Last edited by Snowmanick; 10-27-2019 at 10:08 PM.
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post #14 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
I don’t know for sure, but 99% sure only the rear surround safe reassignable to heights. This is based off the current spec sheet, the interviews at the Arcam booth at Cedia, and how previous Arcam models worked.
Yep

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post #15 of 127 Old 10-27-2019, 07:36 PM
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So for a 5.1.4 setup, one pair of heights will most likely have to be put on an external amp (the other pair would just use the rear surround amp)?

Not a huge issue, would have just liked to put my surrounds on the amp and keep all Atmos speakers on the AVR.
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post #16 of 127 Old 10-28-2019, 07:00 AM
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I'm interested in the AVR10, but I would like to know if they use 24 or 12dB rolloff filters for the crossover.
I tried the AVR390 in the past, but returned it because the 12db rolloff filters caused issues with my bass.

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post #17 of 127 Old 10-28-2019, 09:05 AM
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I'm interested in the AVR10, but I would like to know if they use 24 or 12dB rolloff filters for the crossover.
I tried the AVR390 in the past, but returned it because the 12db rolloff filters caused issues with my bass.
Is that even relevant if you use the Dirac Live Bass Management module?

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post #18 of 127 Old 10-28-2019, 09:09 AM
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Is that even relevant if you use the Dirac Live Bass Management module?
It depends on how the DL Bass Management module works. If the module controls the crossovers filter, then it's probably not an issue.
But if you have to choose a crossover in the AVR and the Dirac Live does phase optimisation around the crossover region, then the AVR's crossover filters are probably used.

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post #19 of 127 Old 10-28-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by broodro0ster View Post
It depends on how the DL Bass Management module works. If the module controls the crossovers filter, then it's probably not an issue.
But if you have to choose a crossover in the AVR and the Dirac Live does phase optimisation around the crossover region, then the AVR's crossover filters are probably used.
It is supposed to do the crossover bit, guess we will know in full once it is released.

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post #20 of 127 Old 10-28-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
It is supposed to do the crossover bit, guess we will know in full once it is released.
As far as I read the blog posts of Dirac, they will set the delay between indivdual subs and then equalise them to get the best inroom response. Just like Audyssey XT32 Bass EQ. But Dirac will also do phase optimalisation like Audyssey Pro. But if Dirac also controls the crossover filters, wasn't mentioned. And I'm also not sure if Dirac will be able to choose the optimal crossover from your system/room.

But's lets wait and see. I hope I'll be able to do an in home test when the Bass Management module is released.
The AVR10 looks likes a good choice to replace my NAD T758 V3 with (which I choose in favor of the AVR390 because bass management was bad on the Arcam AVR390)

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post #21 of 127 Old 10-29-2019, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Some initial questions that would be nice to get answered:

* Is there any way to upgrade the HDMI inputs to HDMI 2.1 later?

* Do the AVRs support setting a separate cutoff frequency for different speakers? E.g. 40 Hz for front speakers, 120 Hz for rear, and 80 Hz for subwoofers? The previous generation AVRs did not support that.
To get these questions answered, I contacted the Arcam support. In my opinion, the answers were very positive and professionally stated.

In short the answers were:

* Arcam has made every possible effort to make the AVRs upgradable to HDMI 2.1. This includes making the HDMI board easier to remove. Arcam has also done all that they can to ensure an upgrade will be possible should compatible hardware arrive in a timely fashion. But since a HDMI 2.1 certification process does not currently exist, nobody can know for sure. This applies to all AVRs manufacturers, and not just Arcam, despite any claims other manufacturers make of already being HDMI 2.1 compatible.

* The new AVRs do support different crossovers per speaker pair.

For the full answer from Arcam, see quote below:

Quote:
It isn't possible at this time to fully answer question 1. We have made the HDMI board easier to remove in the hope that an HDMI 2.1 board could be installed. However, despite what you may have seen online, there isn't actually an HDMI 2.1 certification process. You will see some devices on the market that might make claims of 8K or even saying they are HDMI 2.1 ready, but the fact is that nothing can be certified as ready until the certification process exists. The devices might conform to what will be the certification process, but this cannot be known until the process is available.

A similar thing happened with 4k -- many devices were released claiming to be 4k ready, or Ultra HD ready, or HDMI 2.0 ready, well before the certification was finalised, and at the last minute HDCP 2.2 was enforced and added, and many of the first wave of 4k products were incompatible. We do not wish to jump the gun and release something that will make claims of being HDMI 2.1 ready until we know that it absolutely will be. Our manufacturing partners have not yet manufactured any boards that can be called HDMI 2.1 ready as that represents a significant hardware development cost that will be wasted if it proves not to be the case.

The upshot of this preamble is that we have done all that we can to ensure an upgrade will be possible should compatible hardware arrive in a timely fashion. However, we simply do not know if the HDMI boards, when they launch, will be compatible with the rest of the unit, if the connectors will fit, or anything like that. We would have liked to have released this generation as an HDMI 2.1 platform, but outside factors determined that we could not wait any longer.

The new AVRs do support different crossovers per speaker pair.
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Last edited by Fjodor2000; 10-30-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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post #22 of 127 Old 10-29-2019, 03:32 PM
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Thanks for the investigation.
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post #23 of 127 Old 10-30-2019, 06:12 PM
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How buggy are these Arcam AVRs expected to be compared to the previous/current generation? I ask because someone posted this link in another thread:


https://www.avforums.com/threads/new.../post-27488988


I'm willing to spend a significant premium on the AVR30 over the Anthem MRX 1120, but I want to make sure that I don't have any issues.
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post #24 of 127 Old 10-31-2019, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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How buggy are these Arcam AVRs expected to be compared to the previous/current generation?
I guess that's hard to say since the new AVRs are not released yet. The only thing to go by would be the track record of previous generation AVRs. Is there anyone who can comment on those?
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post #25 of 127 Old 10-31-2019, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Thanks for starting this thread. The AVR20 combined with two of the soon released PA410's would be a nice system to drive a 9.1.6 setup.

It is a shame they have no plans to release a PA810 as it would have resulted in a minimalistic two box solution.
I would assume they are trying to fulfill the standard setups with the least amount of PA-variants needed.

Likely these combos:

AVR10/20/30: 7.1
AVR10/20/30 + PA410: 7.1.4
AVR20/30 + 2xPA410: 9.1.6

Or replace AVR10/20/30 with AV40 + PA720, and the same would apply.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
I guess that's hard to say since the new AVRs are not released yet. The only thing to go by would be the track record of previous generation AVRs. Is there anyone who can comment on those?


At this point there is only one known bug if I’m not mistaken: heights crossover is reset when the unit is powered down.
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post #27 of 127 Old 11-01-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
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As far as I read the blog posts of Dirac, they will set the delay between indivdual subs and then equalise them to get the best inroom response. Just like Audyssey XT32 Bass EQ.

I thought Audyssey did the former, but the latter required manual user intervention.



Quote:
Originally Posted by broodro0ster View Post
But Dirac will also do phase optimalisation like Audyssey Pro.

Are you sure it does that?

It didn't when I had Pro many years ago.

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post #28 of 127 Old 11-02-2019, 01:14 AM
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Any information on release/shipping date on these?

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post #29 of 127 Old 11-02-2019, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I have not seen any public official release/shipping date announced by Arcam yet. Perhaps it also differs per country.

The Articles linked to in the OP says they should be available in October. Some other info online says October/November. When checking some European online stores, I've seen everything from "in stock" to "sometime in November".
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post #30 of 127 Old 11-02-2019, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
I thought Audyssey did the former, but the latter required manual user intervention.

Are you sure it does that?

It didn't when I had Pro many years ago.
Audyssey XT32 first sets the sub delay for each sub (max 2 subs) so they play in phase. And then they get equalized as 1 sub.
Audyssey pro does also phase optimization. You have to choose a crossover and then it calculates the corresponding filter.

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