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post #1 of 35 Old 12-23-2019, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Pre/pro Shopping

Greetings all. I will be assembling a new HT setup within the next 3 months or so. I have not had anything new for the last 10 years so I'm finding I'm stepping into quite an alien world as far as technologies are concerned.

I'm looking for a pre/pro in the $3k area but can go toward $4k if the feature set can justify the cost. I do not want a receiver, I'm looking for separates. I am not in an area that will be suitable for me to go play around with higher end models. I'm looking for something that matches some basic criteria:
1. Balanced outputs
2. Audyssey of some type although I'm still learning the nuances of the different versions. From what I understand the XT32 is what I should go for.

3. Atmos/DTS:X, Auro-3D, etc.


Because I'm so far removed from the current technologies I'm a bit overwhelmed. Looking at reviews of the Marantz AV8805 is somewhat mind-boggling for what it can do. It probably will end up on a list of candidates.



I'll be shopping for new speakers and amps that will replace my 10-year-old Paradigm Reference and Bryston 9BST but that will come later.



I certainly will appreciate any suggestions you may offer.
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post #2 of 35 Old 12-23-2019, 04:16 PM
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Not much have happened on the speaker and amp front so unless you plan to go up just new at same quality is somewhat pointless, unless you just want a change.

Processors have changed, i have the 8805, its solid and works great, no problems with it. There are other options, some that cost a lot more and some lower or about the same. If no nonsense reliability is important to you there are some that might be good to avoid so check up on all your candidates.
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post #3 of 35 Old 12-23-2019, 04:31 PM
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Gary only Denon/Marantz have audyssey. xt32 so look into the av7704/7705 and big brothers 8802a/8805


If your system is mainly HT, then the next step up is Dirac Live room correction. Supposed to be better than xt32 but some limitations on true dual sub control. Research Arcam, NAD, Emotiva, Datasat, Monolith, Auidocontrol, etc. products.





But things have changed, so grab a hold of your hat we are now debating 16 channel pre/pros under $4k https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...processor.html



Good luck!
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post #4 of 35 Old 12-23-2019, 05:34 PM
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If you're spending 3k+, you'll definitely want to step up in Room Correction and NOT get something with Audyssey. Consider something with ARC or Dirac instead.

I also don't think you'll be able to touch an 8805 for under 4k.

And why would you want to replace your Bryston amp, unless it's not working?
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post #5 of 35 Old 12-24-2019, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum7 View Post
If you're spending 3k+, you'll definitely want to step up in Room Correction and NOT get something with Audyssey. Consider something with ARC or Dirac instead.

I also don't think you'll be able to touch an 8805 for under 4k.

And why would you want to replace your Bryston amp, unless it's not working?
This is all great information, thank you.


I'm not yet familiar with the room correction models/systems/formats/whatever we are to call them so it's good to get input about comparative quality.


I'm still debating the speakers. The Paradigm Reference fronts and center that I have are very good and are in pristine condition with the beautiful rosewood option. I would need matching surrounds and height speakers. The surrounds I have now are old dipoles. Yes dipoles. Hey, they used to be a thing.


I'm starting to think I should go ahead and keep the Bryston and simply add more of them for the system. I was looking at used 9bst's and so I'm leaning in that direction. Should I end up with more than 10 channels I can always add a 2 channel amp for the mains.


So are there any specific models that I should have on a short list? I'm definitely going to use XLR so that may help to narrow the list somewhat. The Monolith looks very intriguing.

7.2.6 system. Monoprice HTP-1. JBL 590 fronts and 520 center all driven by a Bryston 6BST. 530 surrounds and NHT Superzero Atmos heights, all driven by 2 Bryston 9BSTs. Twin GSG Audio Devastators with LaVoce 214 drivers and pushed with a Behringer NX6000D amp. 2019 75" Vizio P-series Quantum.
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post #6 of 35 Old 12-24-2019, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
So are there any specific models that I should have on a short list? I'm definitely going to use XLR so that may help to narrow the list somewhat. The Monolith looks very intriguing.
Anthem AVM60 for your consideration.

Why new speakers though? Just ready for a change?
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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post #7 of 35 Old 12-24-2019, 06:12 PM
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I'd seriously consider the Monolith Processor:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887

Dirac Live, Balanced outs.

Tony
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post #8 of 35 Old 12-24-2019, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Added the Anthem to the list, I'm not familiar with that one. I did read briefly about the Monolith so I'll look into it more.


I think I'm just looking for a change in speakers since I've had those Paradigms for...oh maybe 10+ years? That being said however, I'm thinking about this more in response to the excellent feedback I'm getting here. I think maybe keeping the Paradigms and perhaps upgrading them at a later date. I do really like the sound they give me with my Bryston amps.


So now I'm thinking to of course get a new pre/pro, 4k blu-ray player, and adding Bryston amps to the setup. I'll wire with XLR so those cables will add to the cost of the system.


I have speaker cables, I biwire the front 3 and run with Analysis Plus Oval 8 but I digress.
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post #9 of 35 Old 12-24-2019, 11:28 PM
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Maybe you can share with us your room size and layout.
That will help to determine how many chennals you'll need.

That will really help you narrow the field on the pre-amp processer you should be looking at/for ..

Orotund Desert Theater;7.7.4,14'x20'x10',100amp service, JVC RS500,120" ATscreen, Carada Masquerade Masking, OPPO203 & Panny ub820, Anthem AVM60, Simaudio Moon Titan 7&5ch ,Crown xls2500, ACInfinity Fans, L&R Polk SDA SRStl Fully built, CC 2 Polk RTA15tl in Custom Cabinets Fully build, SS-BS Inwall Triad Silver LCR, 4 Atmos Core5, Subs-miniDSP-HD2x4, 4 HSU VTF-15H-MK2, 3 MBM, 2 Rows of 3 Seatcraft Excalibur Lx Seats & more.

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post #10 of 35 Old 12-25-2019, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
Added the Anthem to the list, I'm not familiar with that one. I did read briefly about the Monolith so I'll look into it more.

I think I'm just looking for a change in speakers since I've had those Paradigms for...oh maybe 10+ years? That being said however, I'm thinking about this more in response to the excellent feedback I'm getting here. I think maybe keeping the Paradigms and perhaps upgrading them at a later date. I do really like the sound they give me with my Bryston amps.
Anthem is definitely worth a look. Anthem's ARC room EQ is one of the tops, and the company does have excellent support. If you're not in a rush, you could postpone and see if Anthem drops anything new in 2020 - rumors, but only rumors.... Oh, Anthem and Paradigm are the part of the same audio group just as an FYI or a FWIW.... I'd imagine you'd very much like the Anthem / Bryston / Paradigm combo.
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #11 of 35 Old 12-25-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Anthem is definitely worth a look. Anthem's ARC room EQ is one of the tops, and the company does have excellent support. If you're not in a rush, you could postpone and see if Anthem drops anything new in 2020 - rumors, but only rumors.... Oh, Anthem and Paradigm are the part of the same audio group just as an FYI or a FWIW.... I'd imagine you'd very much like the Anthem / Bryston / Paradigm combo.
Anthem AVM 60 with ARC Genesis gets my vote.
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post #12 of 35 Old 12-25-2019, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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The feedback/input on this continues to be excellent so please accept my thanks!


Room dimensions are an area of thought and an area that can be adjusted. It will be rectangular. I am concerned about room modes and am not sure just how effective the current room correction algorithms are. I have a thread about that the room specifically so please do look over that and provide feedback as you are able. That thread is here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...g-ht-room.html


As far as when I'll be purchasing the equipment, it will be in around 2-3 months. I need to first make sure I get the design of the room just right then have help building it. The sooner I can get the dimensions locked down the sooner I can get it built out and of course the sooner I get my new toys!


It's great when I get more than one post recommending the same thing. That really helps and so I'll look into the Anthem more closely. The Monolith and Marantz 8805 are also pretty amazing looking.
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post #13 of 35 Old 12-26-2019, 05:22 PM
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What Paradigms do you have? I have Studio 60's V.4, CC690, and I still love mine. I'm also running their ADP590's for my rears and they are still amazing. Don't know why you think you shouldn't have them anymore. Keep them til they crap out unless you need bigger to fill the room.

Anthem should have something in the works, probably won't be available til the end of next year, but if your a few months out, it might be worth waiting and seeing what's coming. But then there's the Monolith.
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post #14 of 35 Old 12-26-2019, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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The speakers are Paradigm Reference 100 v2. Surrounds are adp450. I think I just want something new just for the sake of it but I acknowledge that the mains are good and I am happy with them. That being said I have decided they will stay however I would prefer to move to their bipole surrounds. The ADP450s are dipole and I have thought recently that the surround field sounds too vague.

That Monolith looks great as does the Anthem60. The Marantz 8805 also looks amazing but I wonder if it would be more than I would use.

7.2.6 system. Monoprice HTP-1. JBL 590 fronts and 520 center all driven by a Bryston 6BST. 530 surrounds and NHT Superzero Atmos heights, all driven by 2 Bryston 9BSTs. Twin GSG Audio Devastators with LaVoce 214 drivers and pushed with a Behringer NX6000D amp. 2019 75" Vizio P-series Quantum.
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post #15 of 35 Old 12-26-2019, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
I'm starting to think I should go ahead and keep the Bryston and simply add more of them for the system. I was looking at used 9bst's and so I'm leaning in that direction.

Seems like an unnecessary and very likely inaudible expense; I'd keep the Brystons for the fronts and just add a multichannel amp(s) for the surrounds.

Noah
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post #16 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
That Monolith looks great as does the Anthem60. The Marantz 8805 also looks amazing but I wonder if it would be more than I would use.

You just need to look at all of the features across the various models - see what is being offered, what you might find useful (or not), of course the must haves vs. the nice-to-haves (not deal breakers) - and of course the room EQ system if you think you'll use it, probably should be a very high priority consideration.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #17 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
I'd seriously consider the Monolith Processor:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887

Dirac Live, Balanced outs.
The HTP-1 is promised to start shipping today, Friday, in small quantities, after months of schedule fails. Many promised features are not yet implemented. The unit does not offer an on screen display. Balanced outputs only, no RCA's. The room correction software requires a PC to run. It isn't run on the HTP-1 itself. Want to make changes? Hook-up your notebook computer or whatever and make them.

It's now time for early adopters to ring-out the HTP-1. Certainly the HTP-1 thread has a sufficient quantity of interest, as well as some serious fanboys, so that will happen.

Hopefully the HTP-1 will be a great unit. When all promised features are implemented, whenever that is, it will be a real contender. It you want something that will just work today, then you likely should look elsewhere.
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post #18 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 10:38 AM
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The room correction software requires a PC to run. It isn't run on the HTP-1 itself. Want to make changes? Hook-up your notebook computer or whatever and make them.
I believe that's how Dirac rolls. You need either a Mac or PC to run it. I have both an NAD 777 and a Minidsp DDRC-22D and both require my Mac for calibration.

And it looks like the Monoprice processor is still showing "out of stock".

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post #19 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 10:45 AM
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I just chatted with Monoprice. They say it could be in stock today or maybe not. So I guess we keep waiting.

Tony
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post #20 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
Greetings all. I will be assembling a new HT setup within the next 3 months or so. I have not had anything new for the last 10 years so I'm finding I'm stepping into quite an alien world as far as technologies are concerned.

I'm looking for a pre/pro in the $3k area but can go toward $4k if the feature set can justify the cost. I do not want a receiver, I'm looking for separates. I am not in an area that will be suitable for me to go play around with higher end models. I'm looking for something that matches some basic criteria:
1. Balanced outputs
2. Audyssey of some type although I'm still learning the nuances of the different versions. From what I understand the XT32 is what I should go for.

3. Atmos/DTS:X, Auro-3D, etc.

Because I'm so far removed from the current technologies I'm a bit overwhelmed. Looking at reviews of the Marantz AV8805 is somewhat mind-boggling for what it can do. It probably will end up on a list of candidates.

I'll be shopping for new speakers and amps that will replace my 10-year-old Paradigm Reference and Bryston 9BST but that will come later.

I certainly will appreciate any suggestions you may offer.
A few thoughts on Bryston:

If you want more used Bryston gear you might start looking now. It can take a while to find just what you want. Used lists of Bryston equipment for sale often look extensive, but closer examination often shows that many models are missing.

A suggestion is a used 6BSST or 6BSST2 for your front three channels. The first 6B, the 6BST, also is good because it is really a 6BSST, with all the SST changes. Bryston hadn't quite introduced the SST series when it came out, but the 6BST has the 6BSST design.

A 6BSST(or 2) essentially gives you three of the same channels that are in a 4BSST(2). 4B channels are a step up from 9B channels.

Neither the 9BSST family or the 6BSST families were (are) made in great quantities so it can take a while to find what you really want.

Used 4BSST's or 4BSST2's are really the sweet spot in the Bryson lineup IMNVHO. With a 20-year warranty most of them are just getting broken-in! The units are available at reasonable prices, when they are available, but of course they provide an even number of channels.

It would be good to provide premium and powerful amplification to all three front channels. If you move up to something like the upper level Revel speakers in the future, you'll need all the current you can get.
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post #21 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 12:44 PM
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I've been a serial upgrader for a long time, and I've run the gamut of receivers and pre-pro's being very fixated on room correction.
Over the years I've had McIntosh MX122, Marantz AV7702, the Denon AVPHDA1, Integra 9.8, Master Series M15 with the Audyssey SEQ, etc...
My updgrading desire, or obsession, has stopped and it's thanks to my current Anthem AVM60.
It's probably not the most feature rich and won't impress your friends with bejeweled looks, but it simply works, works well and everything I play through it sounds excellent.
ARC is the best RC I've used, it has no influence on the musics' "character" that I can discern, neither does the AVM60 for that matter.

Current Gear: Anthem AVM60, D-Sonic 3500/7, Oppo UDP-203, PS Audio Nuwave Phono Pre, Technics SL1210 w/ Denon DL103, Dune Duo 4K, Vizio 75" 4K, Paradigm Sig. S6 & C3 v.3's, Studio ADP's, Velodyne SPLR1200.
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post #22 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 12:49 PM
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It you want something that will just work today, then you likely should look elsewhere.

That seems unfair.

Per Marc's beta testing, it does just work, and if I'm not mistaken the "missing" features aren't present in any other currently available units.

Noah
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post #23 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 02:29 PM
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I believe that's how Dirac rolls. You need either a Mac or PC to run it. I have both an NAD 777 and a Minidsp DDRC-22D and both require my Mac for calibration.

And it looks like the Monoprice processor is still showing "out of stock".

Yeah, same with ARC. Used to be PC only, but then Genesis introduced Mac support, so now both platforms can use. Finally.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #24 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 06:26 PM
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I picked up an AVM60 6 weeks ago and am very pleased at the improvement in sound. It has paired well with my NAD M25 and my Paradigm Signatures have reached another level of clarity.

You won’t be disappointed with an AVM60.


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post #25 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Regarding the Bryson information: is it possible to use only some channels of a 9bst and leave some open/unused? Just trying to think ahead to an atmos system and amps for that. Thank you as always!

7.2.6 system. Monoprice HTP-1. JBL 590 fronts and 520 center all driven by a Bryston 6BST. 530 surrounds and NHT Superzero Atmos heights, all driven by 2 Bryston 9BSTs. Twin GSG Audio Devastators with LaVoce 214 drivers and pushed with a Behringer NX6000D amp. 2019 75" Vizio P-series Quantum.
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post #26 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 08:54 PM
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Regarding the Bryson information: is it possible to use only some channels of a 9bst and leave some open/unused? Just trying to think ahead to an atmos system and amps for that. Thank you as always!
There should be no problem in leaving the channels unused.
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post #27 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 10:16 PM
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I am very happy with the Marantz AV-8805. It has been the only one with multichannel inputs which is what I needed to use my exaSound e38 dac. I use the onboard Audyssey sometimes and sometimes I use Dirac from my home theater pc that it is hooked up to. I find the AV-8805 to be solid and flexible. You can get an extremely good price on one from some dealers on these forums.

Media Room: LG oled65c7, Marantz AV8805, Sherbourn 7/2100, Emotiva A-300, Studer A80, Studer Revox b795, Nakamichi RX-202, HTPC, exaSound e38, Sweetvinyl Sugarcube SC-2, (2) Piega P10, Piega Coax Center, (6) Piega AP 1.2, Hsu VTF-15h mk2
Office: Emotiva mini-x A100, Geek Pulse, (2) KEF LS-50, Goldenear FF 4, PC, NAS 130TB
Bedroom: Panasonic TCP55vt35, Marantz NR1200, Dune 3 Prime, (2) Elac Uni-Fi UB5
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post #28 of 35 Old 12-28-2019, 08:15 AM
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There's a number of Bryston amplifiers on fleebay now with some really good deals.

Orotund Desert Theater;7.7.4,14'x20'x10',100amp service, JVC RS500,120" ATscreen, Carada Masquerade Masking, OPPO203 & Panny ub820, Anthem AVM60, Simaudio Moon Titan 7&5ch ,Crown xls2500, ACInfinity Fans, L&R Polk SDA SRStl Fully built, CC 2 Polk RTA15tl in Custom Cabinets Fully build, SS-BS Inwall Triad Silver LCR, 4 Atmos Core5, Subs-miniDSP-HD2x4, 4 HSU VTF-15H-MK2, 3 MBM, 2 Rows of 3 Seatcraft Excalibur Lx Seats & more.
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post #29 of 35 Old 12-28-2019, 08:23 AM
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So... are you needing/wanting more then 7 chennals for your bed speakers? Example..7.1.4
Do/will you have room for 9 chennals?

And one more question... will all your electronics be using an HDMI conection.? Can you live without any Legacy inputs..

Orotund Desert Theater;7.7.4,14'x20'x10',100amp service, JVC RS500,120" ATscreen, Carada Masquerade Masking, OPPO203 & Panny ub820, Anthem AVM60, Simaudio Moon Titan 7&5ch ,Crown xls2500, ACInfinity Fans, L&R Polk SDA SRStl Fully built, CC 2 Polk RTA15tl in Custom Cabinets Fully build, SS-BS Inwall Triad Silver LCR, 4 Atmos Core5, Subs-miniDSP-HD2x4, 4 HSU VTF-15H-MK2, 3 MBM, 2 Rows of 3 Seatcraft Excalibur Lx Seats & more.
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post #30 of 35 Old 12-28-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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More great information. I'm thinking perhaps getting an amp for the front 3 channels and add to my existing 9bst. So the next question becomes which Bryson for those front 3? Or maybe get a stereo amp for the mains and use 9bst channels for the surrounds and center? This is alien territory for me running more than a 5.1 system.

Looking ahead I'd ultimately run with as many channels as will be reasonable given the room size so I'm trying to be thinking ahead. It seems that regardless I'll need another 9bst.

7.2.6 system. Monoprice HTP-1. JBL 590 fronts and 520 center all driven by a Bryston 6BST. 530 surrounds and NHT Superzero Atmos heights, all driven by 2 Bryston 9BSTs. Twin GSG Audio Devastators with LaVoce 214 drivers and pushed with a Behringer NX6000D amp. 2019 75" Vizio P-series Quantum.
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