The "Official" Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 09:27 AM
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FWIW - I ordered this adapter based on what was mentioned in the other thread

https://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-3...NQBDGC3E42BA12
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post #32 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Unless I’m just completely out of my mind, any XLR/XLR cable will do just fine.

What’s in question are the wiring from XLR/RCA setups, since the HTP-1 lacks any RCA pre-outs.

Cables with XLR to RCA ends need to be wired a certain way for the HTP-1.

If you’re not converting any ins/outs and you have XLR inputs on your amp - any XLR male/female cable will work.
Yup, xlr to xlr should be 'straight through''.

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post #33 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pink soda View Post
FAQs and Tips
Requirements for Dirac Live Calibration
A laptop or desktop personal computer, along with a calibrated microphone (not included), are required to perform a Dirac calibration of the HTP-1. A smartphone cannot be used to perform a Dirac calibration.

Currently, Dirac calibration requires a PC or Mac Laptop running Dirac Live with an external mic attached to the laptop. Dirac recommends using the MiniDSP UMIK-1.


Choosing a Calibration Mic



List of Suitable XLR to RCA Cables/Adapters




List of adapters/cables will be added as they are tested and confirmed to work.
The output of HTP-1 is differential, but not "balanced". That means that both the + and - ends are driven by op amps. If you ground pin 3 you cause one of the op amps to drive to ground via a suitable load. It in no way damages the unit and bench tests don't show any measurable performance difference. If you really care about the last dB, then use a balanced amp connection. Otherwise it doesn't matter. I use the Monoprice cables. They seem to hold up better than some others in my cable box.
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post #34 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
Yup, xlr to xlr should be 'straight through''.

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Agreed.
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post #35 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Just received shipping notification from Monoprice. I should receive the HTP-1 on January 4th.

Speakers: Ascend Acoustics Sierra RAAL Towers & Horizon w/ Mapleshade 4" Maple Platforms & Brass Heavyfeet ・ Ascend Sierra Luna satellitesRythmik FV18 aluminum cone subwoofer x2 ・ JBL GX-1200 subwoofer x5 direct mounted to seats
Components: Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 w/ Dirac Live ・ Anthem Statement P5 ・ JVC DLA-RS540 ・ Stewart Cima FF 123 inch w/ Studiotek ST130 G4

Last edited by pink soda; 12-30-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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post #36 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
@pink soda it might be helpful to add a list of suitable xlr to rca cables/adapters in the FAQ & Tips section since I suspect there will be a good percentage of us using one or more of them and there seems to be a fair amount of adapters in the marketplace that aren't wired per page 8 of the manual. The correct xlr to rca cables will have pin 1 of the xlr wired to the outer contact of the RCA, pin 2 wired to the center contact, and pin 3 should be floating.

Image source: http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/So...connection.pdf
Switchcraft 322X 3-Pin XLR Female to RCA Female Adapter, Nickel Finish

https://emotiva.com/collections/acce...r-interconnect
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post #37 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 04:05 PM
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Hi Marc,

Are you certain these are wired correctly? Neither give any pinout information.

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post #38 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 04:20 PM
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I have had issues with a particular XLR connector used by Monoprice (Premier), Cable Matters, and others. I have gotten them stuck in device interfaces. I then tested against standard Neutrik and Switchcraft connections which also did not mate well. Buyer beware.


Monoprice Stage Right connectors appear to be Neutrik XX clones (which is good). Monolith XLR cables appear high quality but a bit expensive. From Monoprice the Stage Right STARQUAD is what I would purchase: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=35317

Emotiva also sells nice cables:
https://emotiva.com/collections/acce...rconnect-cable
https://emotiva.com/collections/acce...ucts/xlr-snake

I have also had good experiences with short XLR patch cables and snakes from Seismic Audio and GLS Audio.
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post #39 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
Hi Marc,

Are you certain these are wired correctly? Neither give any pinout information.

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I believe they should going off what was said in the message below from page 60 of the other HTP-1 thread:





There was this quote in the Trinnov Altitude Thread which explained why you need to be very careful about Balanced Pre-amp to Unbalanced (RCA) Power Amp converters / cables. Only ever use the type of converter / cable for this that Preamp manufacturer recommends. e.g. floating (not connected) pin 3 in case of the Trinnov.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
First, congratulations!

Second, I had a similar situation, one amp had unbalanced only plus I had a unique setup scenario. So I used unbalanced RCA connections to amps. I did a month of reading and talked to Trinnov's Jon Herron. You have to be careful in selecting the proper XLR adapter or balanced transformer. Most adapters are internally wired so that pin 3 (ground) is connected to pin 1 (negative) and this can work in many applications. But with an active preamp, like the Altitude, this will short the negative half of the signal to ground and the Altitude will not be happy! Noise & overheating - both not good!

If using an adapter, the Switchcraft 322X unwired adapter is the only one Jon recommended to me. I had looked at various isolation/balanced-to-unbalanced transformers like the Neutrik, Jensen, DTI Cleanboxes, and others. But I'm not experienced with pro audio applications and many of these transformers-cleanboxes have adjustments for matching signal levels & impedances.

So the safest & easiest thing for me was to use the Switchcraft adapter that he recommended:

https://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-3...7037787&sr=8-1

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...lr_female.html

Jon Herron posted a comment in the review section at Amazon which I'll quote here -

"Sorry, but the other review is mistaken.

There are two common ways to wire an XLR to RCA adapter: in this case, Pin 3 floats (is not connected to anything), which is better when using these adapters on the output of a high quality, low output impedance piece of pro gear. If Pin 3 is tied to ground (the other way), it is the preamp equivalent of shorting a speaker wire to ground. The output buffer will overheat and likely distort something awful, usually within 15-20 minutes.

Since the output of this thing is a single-ended signal, and the outer ring of the RCA is tied to the chassis ground, the only remaining signal that needs to be connected is Pin 2 (the red wire mentioned in the other review). Ground is handled by the body of the adapter.

These are the only such adapters I will use with our products, which are designed to pro-sound standards in terms of the balanced interface."

Mine did come unwired so I had to unscrew the barrel (easy) and solder the red wire (the only wire inside the adapter) to pin 2 (+ hot). Pin 3 (-) and Pin 1 (ground) are left unconnected.

Using the adapter instead of signal matching transformer costs 6dB signal volume. We did discuss the possibility of ground hum and if I had hum then I would have to look at Jensen RCA isolation transformers but fortunately I had no hum.

Of course Trinnov will recommend a transformer since the right one can compensate for the signal strength. Picking the right one (with no impact to noise and freq response) is the issue. For me, the Switchcraft adapter was the simplest, least expensive with no harm to the signal. They worked for me; I still have plenty of volume headroom even with my inefficient Magnepan speakers.

You might want to give Jon Herron or Chuck Best @ Trinnov a call to discuss your setup & using transformer vs adapter.

And that vdctrading XLR-RCA cable will most likely NOT be compatible with the Altitude. Every XLR-RCA cable I looked at have pin 1 & 3 wired together - a big no with the Altitude (2 preamps per channel, 1 positive & 1 negative so 2 separate signals).
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post #40 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
Hi Marc,

Are you certain these are wired correctly? Neither give any pinout information.
Yes I am. The Switchcraft is what is recommended by Trinnov. The Emotiva is made specifically for the RMC-1/XMC-2 which have the same requirement as Trinnov and HTP-1.
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post #41 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 04:56 PM
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It is quite easy to modify any XLR to RCA adaptor or cable. One simply needs to open the XLR side and remove the pin #3 connection. I have documented this step-by-step on a Hosa GXF-132 GXM-133 adaptor. This adapter is identical to the Neutrk NA2FPMF and Parts Express 240-428 (least expensive). There is is no benefit to paying more for Neutrik as these all seem to be manufactured by the same OEM.

1) Pin #3 n/c no connection


2) The adaptors can be difficult to separate. Dual vice-grip pliers do the job.


3) Find the pin #3 jumper


4) Remove/snip the jumper between pins #1 & #3



Edit: My apologies, these pictures were of a GXM-133 adapter modified to go from unbalanced RCA output to XLR (male) input in which pin #1 is disconnected. Same principles still apply for XLR (female) out to RCA. However, you cannot simply clip the jumper. You must unsolder the wire from pin #3 and resolder to pin #1 .

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 12-31-2019 at 06:00 PM.
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post #42 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 04:58 PM
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Don't attached XLR pin 3 to ground

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
@pink soda it might be helpful to add a list of suitable xlr to rca cables/adapters in the FAQ & Tips section since I suspect there will be a good percentage of us using one or more of them and there seems to be a fair amount of adapters in the marketplace that aren't wired per page 8 of the manual. The correct xlr to rca cables will have pin 1 of the xlr wired to the outer contact of the RCA, pin 2 wired to the center contact, and pin 3 should be floating.

Image source: http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/So...connection.pdf


Here is a repeat of a post from the HTP-1 announcement thread so it is taken a bit out context. The subject was the Monoprice XLR to RCA Cables, which attach XLR pin 3 to ground.

o The goal here is to explain why attaching pin 3 to ground is not a good idea. The subject arose because Monoprice in the HTP-1 manual correctly recommends against connecting pin 3 to ground.

--------------------

E (V) = I x R

I = V / R

A typical input impedance (R above) for one leg of an XLR input is around 10K to 20K ohms. Since this R is large, I is small.

Let's say V = 1V, then I = 1/10,000 = .0001A or .1mA

Ground implies zero resistance so the resistance seen by the voltage source is only the output impedance of the (-) leg. 100 ohms would be typical impedance (R) in this case. The voltage source will attempt to maintain the voltage (R goes down so I must go up) and will greatly increase the output current in the attempt.

Using the 1V output as above, I = 1/100 = 10mA, which is 100X the current above. This may or may not be a heavy load on the output driver of the HTM-1, that depends on the design.

If the HTP-1 is using dual opamps, that is two opamps in one package, to drive the two halves of the balanced output (output buffers) then the heat generated in the (-) leg device may affect the (+) leg. The two opamps in the package also share one power supply so any issues caused by the load on the (-) side opamp will affect the (+) power supply as well.

The effect on the sum of the current loads for all the output drivers on the power supply for the output stages is also unknown.

At a maximum, 16 channels X .1mA = 1.6mA or .0016A, with pin 3 grounded the current required is 10mA x 16 = 160mA or .16A. While this maximum current is unlikely it still shows the major difference the increased load from ground pin 3 puts on the power supply. Whatever that load, it is unnecessary, since the connection of pin 3 to ground serves no purpose.

A connection to ground is unnecessary and puts an unnecessary load on the output electronics. Simply using a correctly configured XLR to RCA cables or adapters avoids this issue.

Note:

If an individual will only use Monoprice cables then a suggestion is to open the XLR end of the XLR to RCA cable, and is likely possible, cut the wire that connects to pin 3. Per memory that style of Monoprice XLR connector offers access to the individual wires. This would seem to produce an acceptable configuration.
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post #43 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 05:12 PM
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Do not be fooled by the Monoprice "Premier" 16AWG cables being higher priced. They are not truly 16AWG. They are 24AWG at best with a thick rubber surround giving the cables thickness. The shielding is just basic stranded copper which is also signal ground. There is no braid, no foil, and no condictive PVC or paper layers.

https://www.monoprice.com/search/ind...ord=Xlr+to+rca

The Stage Right are the XLR to RCA cables you want from Monoprice's catalog. You will still need to open the XLR end and clip the pin #3 jumper.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=35808

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Do not be fooled by the Monoprice "Premier" 16AWG cables being higher priced. They are not truly 16AWG. They are 24AWG at best with a thick rubber surround giving the cables thickness. The shielding is just basic stranded copper which is also signal ground. There is no braid, no foil, and no condictive PVC or paper layers.

https://www.monoprice.com/search/ind...ord=Xlr+to+rca

The Stage Right are the XLR to RCA cables you want from Monoprice's catalog. You will still need to open the XLR end and clip the pin #3 jumper.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=35808

Sorry I missed the conversation. I am assuming that you guys are talking about the XLR to Rca cables only?

As far as XLR to XLR cables are concerned, will any decent cable work without needing rewiring?

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post #45 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 08:19 PM
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For XLR-XLR I've not had any problems with Mogami Gold STUDIO cables (they're expensive though).

For XLR-RCA Emotiva seems to have a decent adapter.

https://emotiva.com/products/balance...r-interconnect
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post #46 of 1101 Old 12-30-2019, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Sorry I missed the conversation. I am assuming that you guys are talking about the XLR to Rca cables only?

As far as XLR to XLR cables are concerned, will any decent cable work without needing rewiring?
Yes - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post59024160

Spoiler!
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post #47 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 08:57 AM
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So what's the bottom line. Is it shipping with working Dirac Live or not?

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post #48 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
So what's the bottom line. Is it shipping with working Dirac Live or not?

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I guess I’ll double post here too. The HTP-1?
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Yes

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post #50 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 10:07 AM
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The "Official" Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Yes

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Yes. Dirac Live is fully working on the HTP-1.

The Bass Management Module will be released by Dirac in the future.
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So I received the switchcraft 322 adapter and it looks like you have to assemble it yourself. It only has one red wire coming out of it so going by the diagram above I would solder that red wire to pin 2 and that's it? Many thanks.
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Everyone that ordered - when’s your delivery date? I think I remember most being Friday or Saturday of this week.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It is quite easy to modify any XLR to RCA adaptor or cable. One simply needs to open the XLR side and remove the pin #3 connection. I have documented this step-by-step on a Hosa GXF-132 GXM-133 adaptor. This adapter is identical to the Neutrk NA2FPMF and Parts Express 240-428 (least expensive). There is is no benefit to paying more for Neutrik as these all seem to be manufactured by the same OEM.

1) Pin #3 n/c no connection


2) The adaptors can be difficult to separate. Dual vice-grip pliers do the job.


3) Find the pin #3 jumper


4) Remove/snip the jumper between pins #1 & #3

My apologies, these pictures were of a GXM-133 adapter modified to go from unbalanced RCA output to XLR (male) input in which pin #1 is disconnected. Same principles still apply for XLR (female) out to RCA. However, you cannot simply clip the jumper. You must unsolder the wire from pin #3 and resolder to pin #1 .
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post #54 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Everyone that ordered - when’s your delivery date? I think I remember most being Friday or Saturday of this week.
Saturday for me....
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post #55 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 07:35 PM
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it looks like you can order benchmark cables wired correctly

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collectio...iant=547761981
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Anyone got their HTP-1 yet?
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post #57 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by audioworker View Post
Anyone got their HTP-1 yet?


I’d say Thur/Fri/Saturday will be the arrival dates to folks homes.
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post #58 of 1101 Old 12-31-2019, 10:43 PM
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No IR input? No RS232 input? How do you turn the unit on remotely without using the remote?
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post #59 of 1101 Old 01-01-2020, 01:40 AM
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No IR input? No RS232 input? How do you turn the unit on remotely without using the remote?
IP Control.

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post #60 of 1101 Old 01-01-2020, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by audioworker View Post
Anyone got their HTP-1 yet?

My friend received his earlier today (or last year at this point). It seems to be serial number 1, which cracked us up a bit. We had a few hours to do the physical setup, configuration, and get a little listening and watching in, so this isn't a detailed assessment and I'll probably forget a bunch of stuff I said to myself that I would post.

The HTP-1 replaced his RMC-1 which was recently returned due to...umm...displeasure. His old XMC-1 was standing in until the Monolith arrived. Anyway, I'll skip to the point: The HTP-1 just works. You hook it up, turn in on, go through the very logical HTTP-based GUI (we skipped Dirac for today, just quickly setting distance as well as levels with an SPL meter), and start playing. There are bound to be bugs, but right now you can use and enjoy it in the way that most people expect to be able to use a piece of AV hardware. It is not fiddly.

The three main sources in the system are an Oppo 203, Intel NUC (video & music source), and LG C8 apps like Netflix. HDMI switching was just like Marc said, roughly 3 seconds. CEC/ARC appear to work just as they should. The front display and the GUI definitely mirror one another and show what's going on nicely. I'm not sure if an ATMOS or TrueHD source is just supposed to say "Dolby Digital" or not, which it did, but maybe reflecting the actual codec is an update for later.


UPDATE: Problem solved https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post59037554


IMHO, in this JTR-based system the unit just flat out sounds great for movies. In our unscientific testing with the UHD versions of Blade Runner 2049 and Alita: Battle Angel it seemed to be at the very least the equal of the RMC-1. Detail, dynamics, and sub-bass extension, as well as articulation, were excellent and, to our ears, sounded even better than the RMC-1. It will be interesting to hear other opinions on this.

We didn't do much of any critical music listening yet. We checked out a handful of tracks via Foobar2000 in WASAPI event mode ranging from 320 MP3 to 24/96 FLAC files and they sounded quite good, but it was too casual to give any comparative opinion vs the Emotiva units. Basically we talked too much.

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in with a brief something to let people know that they are arriving and the dern thing really does work, just like Marc has said. I'm super impressed and can't wait to spend more time working with it, especially with Dirac 2.0.

Last edited by vraxoin; 01-02-2020 at 02:07 PM.
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