The "Official" Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 Owners Thread - Page 69 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2041 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
Good! Is it made by Dolby or by Monolith itself?


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Page 61: https://downloads.monoprice.com/file...ual_200124.pdf
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post #2042 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Thanks! Another questions, does the HTP-1 downsample everyting to 16-bit while using Dirac?

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post #2043 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 08:58 AM
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Hi guys,

I am currently running my Home Theater using Roomie Remote. The HTP-1 is not in their database. I asked them if they could add it, and they answered me that they had never heard of it and the never had a single request about it...(he even called the HTP-1 an obscure device...???) This did not surprise, being a long time Roomie Remote user and knowing very well how the single guy running it is...

Anyway, Monolithguy, or anybody here using Roomie Remote, could you help me with that? I absolutely need the HTP-1 to be controllable through IP before I buy it. I need two way communication: my Roomie Remote app (I am using it on an iPad) must be able to display the current volume level, surround format, etc. I do not want to have to use a different app (HTP-1 web interface) and I have no line of sight view to the HTP-1 display.

If any current HTP-1 user is using Roomie Remote, did you ask for it to be added to Roomie database by contacting support? as stated above, "support" said they never heard of it.

I am not very good with IP or networks, and I am wondering, even it Roomie support were willing to add it to their supported devices list, is the HTP-1 "ready" for that, or does the HTP-1 team have something to do on their side?

I cannot believe I am the only HTP-1 (future) user wanting to control it "better" than using the IR remote or the webpage interface?

Last edited by stef2; 03-04-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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post #2044 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
...(he even called the HTP-1 an obscure device...???)...
Monolithguy might have said the feeling is mutual


Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
Anyway, Monolithguy, or anybody here using Roomie Remote, could you help me with that?
I'm sure there are willingness here. But I doubt there is a big red easy button...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
I absolutely need the HTP-1 to be controllable through IP before I buy it. I need two way communication: my Roomie Remote app (I am using it on an iPad) must be able to display the current volume level, surround format, etc. I do not want to have to use a different app (HTP-1 web interface) and I have no line of sight view to the HTP-1 display.
The recently added ircmd might come to the rescue... From the release notes:

Quote:
The URL is http://192.168.1.100/ircmd?code=XXXX where XXXX is the ‘NEC Code’ from the ‘IR Code Table’ in the User Guide. You should replace 192.168.1.100 with the actual IP address of your unit. More than one NEC Code may be sent by separating them with comma. Note that the code must be sent exactly as described in the User Guide: 4 hexidecimal digits, lower case, and without 0x prefix. The following example uses the ‘wget’ and the ‘curl’ command:

Selects HDMI 1, Native upmix mode, unmute:

wget "http://192.168.1.100/ircmd?code=0ff0,1ee1,4cb3"
curl "http://192.168.1.100/ircmd?code=0ff0,1ee1,4cb3"
Selects HDMI 2, Direct upmix mode, mute:

wget "http://192.168.1.100/ircmd?code=10ef,4bb4,1be4"
curl "http://192.168.1.100/ircmd?code=10ef,4bb4,1be4"
So everything you can do with the IR remote can be done through HTTP. The reverse status side is undocumented, but it appears that when no code is sent, i.e. http://192.168.1.100/ircmd , you get a whole ton of status information and the volume is the first:

{
"volume": -30,
"status": {
"raw": {
"streamType": 0,
"inputSampleRateEnum": 0,
"inputSampleRate": -1,
"outputSampleRateEnum": 0,
"outputSampleRate": -1,
"activity": 12,
"decProgramFormat": 0,
"encListeningFormat": 0,
"streamInfoBytes": [
0,
0,
117,
0,
0
]
},
"DECSourceProgram": "none"
},
"cal": {
"lipsync": 0,
"vpl": -100,
"vph": 0,
"ampsense": 4,
"diracactive": false,
"currentdiracslot": 1,
"caltoolconnected": false
},
"unitname": "HTP-1",
"bassenhance": "off",
"eq": {
"tc": false,
"treble": {
"level": -12,
"freq": 501
},
"bass": {
"level": 0,
"freq": 100
}
},
"upmix": "native",
"fastStart": "on",
"fastStartPassThrough": "off",
"night": "on",
"loudness": "on",
"dialogEnh": 6,
"input": "h1",
"muted": false,
"hw": {
"fpBright": 6
},
"stat": {
"TVSoundSrc": " ",
"TVSoundSrcDefault": "none",
"earcLinkStatus": "UNK, mode:UNK",
"CECStatus": " Enable:Off, LastReq:, SysAud:0, Map:0x0000",
"displayVideoStat": true,
"displayAudioStat": true,
"displayAdvancedSettings": true,
"newupdate": "updateavailable",
"gitbranch": "dev",
"enableSupportTools": true,
"devresp": true,
"devrespavail": false,
"systemAudio": true,
"updateprogmsg": {
"updating": false
}
},
"videostat": {
"VideoResolution": "4k24Hz",
"VideoColorSpace": "RGB",
"VideoMode": "4:4:4",
"VideoBitDepth": "12bpc",
"HDRstatus": "",
"Video3D": ""
},
"peq": {
"currentpeqslot": 0,
"peqsw": false
}
}

Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
I am not very good with IP or networks
We are happy to help, but unless someone actually has both the HTP-1 and the Roomie app in use, no one can test. But reading the Roomie documentation suggests that the control side should be no issue at all. Displaying volume requires receiving and parsing volume value from the HTP-1. A quick scan of the DDK.pdf did not yield a clue; but I didn't try very hard. Maybe you can contact Roomie to ask exactly how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
..., and I am wondering, even it Roomie support were willing to add it to their supported devices list, is the HTP-1 "ready" for that, or does the HTP-1 team have something to do on their side?
It appears that the HTP-1 is fully capable of being remotely controlled and as you see above provides a ton of status info.

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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
I cannot believe I am the only HTP-1 (future) user wanting to control it "better" than using the IR remote or the webpage interface?
I have a long list of todos and when I have completed that (but it keeps growing, one cool thing I can think about is to create a Raspberry Pi project to control the HTP-1. For example, if it senses that I walk into the room in the morning, it could turn the HTP-1 on, switch to Spotify when it is raining outside, or switch to Sunday Night Football if it is Sunday Night. Obviously some of these has nothing to do with the HTP-1, but you get the idea.
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post #2045 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 10:11 AM
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So everything you can do with the IR remote can be done through HTTP
p.s. I found these out from https://roomieremote.com/wp-content/...ontrolDDK6.zip

Quote:
2. IP – HTTP
The first line of an HTTP method command is always the base URL. If a separator blank line is
included, everything above the separator line will be treated as a header. Otherwise, and in the
case of no separator line, everything is treated as body. The examples shown in the ‘Sample
HTTP’ folder are for an HTTP POST device with 2 special header lines and an XML body. To
use GET instead of POST, simply remove the “POST” before the base URL.
" of " ©2018 Roomie Remote, Inc. 5 14
[POST] URL
[Optional Header Lines]
[Blank Separator Line if Header Lines Exist]
[Body Text if Applicable]
The only required segment is the URL.
So it appears you need to create a RoomieCodes.plist file with key definition like this:

<key>POWER TOGGLE</key>
<string>/ircmd?code=0ff0</string>
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post #2046 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 11:38 AM
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Does Dirac offers a Dynamic EQ like Audyssey?
Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.
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post #2047 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
Thanks! Another questions, does the HTP-1 downsample everyting to 16-bit while using Dirac?
No, all processing in the HTP-1 is performed in 32 bit floating point. This is converted to 24 bit fixed point at the output.
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post #2048 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.

What does this sentence mean? Loudness compensation and Audyssey Dynamic EQ are the exact same thing with different names, as far as I know. In both cases you're adjusting the target curve based on volume setting to maintain "equal loudness" with fletcher-munson. I like that it's included in the HTP-1 because it is very useful when you're listening below reference level.
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post #2049 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by audioworker View Post
p.s. I found these out from https://roomieremote.com/wp-content/...ontrolDDK6.zip



So it appears you need to create a RoomieCodes.plist file with key definition like this:

<key>POWER TOGGLE</key>
<string>/ircmd?code=0ff0</string>
Wow, thank you for taking the time to answer my post!

Having absolutely no clue about how all of this works (no offense, your posts explain a lot, but tinkering with this is far from my field of expertise), my hopes are high that some day, I will be able to use the HTP-1 with Roomie Remote.

As a request for Monolithguy, do you think you could get in touch with Roomie devs and help them add the HTP-1 to their database? I know of at least another user, readthis13, who would really like this to work.

To me, this is a sine qua non requirement for my soon to be bought 16 channels processor. Anybody else seound here using Roomie and HTP-1? make your voice heard

Last edited by stef2; 03-04-2020 at 01:10 PM.
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post #2050 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sancus View Post
What does this sentence mean? Loudness compensation and Audyssey Dynamic EQ are the exact same thing with different names, as far as I know. In both cases you're adjusting the target curve based on volume setting to maintain "equal loudness" with fletcher-munson.
The term "loudness compensation" is an umbrella term that can mean different things, including Audyssey's Dynamic EQ and Dolby Volume, as well as THX's Loudness Plus, and the Loudness EQ of the HTP-1.

The operation varies dramatically among them, as do the results. Some are downright annoying due to obvious dynamic artefacts. Others quite benign.

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post #2051 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.
It dynamically changes with MV.
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post #2052 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
As a request for Monolithguy, do you think you could get in touch with Roomie devs and help them add the HTP-1 to their database? I know of at least another user, readthis13, who would really like this to work.

To me, this is a sine qua non requirement for my soon to be bought 16 channels processor. Anybody else seound here using Roomie and HTP-1? make your voice heard
I can contact them and we can explore, but I don't know what sine qua non means. No guarantees, but it's worth checking out.
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post #2053 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.
What do you mean by "nothing dynamic"? Is the curve static? I think the dynamic EQ provided by Audyssey changes the compensation curve depending on the listening level, it has a "reference level offset" which tries (poorly, IMO) to compensate for content / source differences.

My opinion, I'd prefer a dynamically configurable control whose sole responsibility is to allow me to adjust the "reference level offset" on-the-fly (manually). More often than not, when I make changes to my volume it's to compensate for content differences (e.g., I'm targeting a level, which is what my volume is set at, but the content is too low, so I have to turn it up). However, if I turn it up and that causes the curve to adjust (like Audyssey would), then I'm not only turning it up I'm also adjusting the "tone control" (which isn't what I want). Basically, I want:

  • Volume control - to adjust the gain and determine how much "loudness compensation" is needed. Essentially, this sets my "target dB level". Which is how it "should" work, until you realize that content controls this just as much as the gain applied.

  • Content offset control - to adjust the gain, but not to touch the "loudness compensation" -- strictly, this compensates for how "quiet" the piece is. Essentially, this is a manual version of what you love about Roon's normalization. I am setting the amount of "normalization" I think is required for a piece.

It'd also be really nice to be able to configure how the "loudness compensation" works. Some people (myself included) like to add even more bass as the volume level goes up. Essentially, it saturates the system with bass before the highs...and usually, when I'm turning up my system more and more, it's because I want to feel more bass, but the highs only need to go up a touch, just enough so they don't get swamped in bass. I would've liked to believe this would be linear, but our hearing is logarithmic, so....it's not "that simple". I believe Audyssey is reversed, more bass is added at lower volume levels (as per the reference level offset), but as you turn it up, the bass ends up becoming anemic compared to the highs. It's worse, actually, than something that adds a static house-curve to any volume level, IMO.

I suppose I can probably just sum this up with, "I really like bass, lots of it...I'll take just enough highs to clearly hear over it" haha.
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post #2054 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
What do you mean by "nothing dynamic"? Is the curve static?
Yes. Once a volume is set, the appropriate EQ curve is called, and it sits there until the volume control is changed.

Quote:
I think the dynamic EQ provided by Audyssey changes the compensation curve depending on the listening level, it has a "reference level offset" which tries (poorly, IMO) to compensate for content / source differences.
Yes, static. DEQ changes based on volume setting, but also based on its analysis of the audio in real time. It's constantly adapting -- hence it is called "dynamic."

Quote:
My opinion, I'd prefer a dynamically configurable control whose sole responsibility is to allow me to adjust the "reference level offset" on-the-fly (manually). More often than not, when I make changes to my volume it's to compensate for content differences (e.g., I'm targeting a level, which is what my volume is set at, but the content is too low, so I have to turn it up). However, if I turn it up and that causes the curve to adjust (like Audyssey would), then I'm not only turning it up I'm also adjusting the "tone control" (which isn't what I want).
Yes, that is a key issue for all loudness compensation processes -- how to accurately match the compensation to the actual SPL. If you are adjusting the volume to maintain SPL over various sources, then the loudness comp should not be changing at all. We all agree on that. One way to solve that is by pre-normalizng the volume of each source. Another is to have an adjustable reference level offset for each source.

Quote:
It'd also be really nice to be able to configure how the "loudness compensation" works. Some people (myself included) like to add even more bass as the volume level goes up. Essentially, it saturates the system with bass before the highs...and usually, when I'm turning up my system more and more, it's because I want to feel more bass, but the highs only need to go up a touch, just enough so they don't get swamped in bass.
You might like to explore a Q-Sys system. It lets you build your own signal processing structures.

Quote:
I believe Audyssey is reversed, more bass is added at lower volume levels (as per the reference level offset), but as you turn it up, the bass ends up becoming anemic compared to the highs. It's worse, actually, than something that adds a static house-curve to any volume level, IMO.
The system needs to sound right (exactly as you like it) at your loudest listening level. Then as the volume is reduced, it should maintain that spectral balance as best possible. If that's not what's happening, it might mean something is out of adjustment, or a flaw in the loudness compensation.

Having said that, I agree DEQ has it wrong. Here's a link to Audyssey's explanation.

Here's where it was discussed at AVS Forum some years ago. Link.

Here's one other post, but there are more sprinkled thru the thread (with links broken.) Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancus View Post
What does this sentence mean? Loudness compensation and Audyssey Dynamic EQ are the exact same thing with different names, as far as I know.

HTP loudness compensation is nondynamic in that the EQ is fixed for a given setting of the volume control, and not a function of the dynamically varying signal level.

I may well be mistaken, but I thought that Audyssey Dynamic Volume does change EQ as a function of signal level.

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I can contact them and we can explore, but I don't know what sine qua non means. No guarantees, but it's worth checking out.
Thank you! please do so!



"an essential condition; a thing that is absolutely necessary" is the meaning
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post #2057 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MonolithGuy View Post
I can contact them and we can explore, but I don't know what sine qua non means. No guarantees, but it's worth checking out.
I would love this as well. Considering switching to Roomie from a Logitech Harmony Elite and this is currently blocking me.
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post #2058 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
*snip*You might like to explore a Q-Sys system. It lets you build your own signal processing structures. *snip*
But, it'll add more A/D to the chain...I "can't" have that, .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The system needs to sound right (exactly as you like it) at your loudest listening level. Then as the volume is reduced, it should maintain that spectral balance as best possible. If that's not what's happening, it might mean something is out of adjustment, or a flaw in the loudness compensation.
I don't know what my loudest listening level is...I suppose if I were to take a programmatic approach, I'd start with the low-end and see how much rumble my house can stand and then go from there, lol. This all gets wonky for me once we start using noise (or pure tones) to configure our systems for music (which can vary in its spectral content, significantly, from piece to piece). I "get it", but...just because I can playback pink-noise at a certain decibel level at a certain volume level without exceeding the voltage my pre (or amplifiers) can supply doesn't mean I can play back music that has extremely heavy bass at that same volume level, right? This gets even "crazier" as we add crossover networks and active amplification. Or...maybe I'm just overthinking it and missing something.
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
*snip*
I may well be mistaken, but I thought that Audyssey Dynamic Volume does change EQ as a function of signal level.
I never get it right which one I "liked". I thought one was a Fletcher-Munson "equivalent" which strictly used the volume position (after calibration) and a reference level offset to apply a static curve. The other adjusted to the playback content (or, possibly, used meta-data in bit-streams containing it) and was more like a dynamic range compression...I thought. I dunno, I don't keep track of marketing glossy, lol, and it's been too long since I cared about Audyssey, so that's all pushed out of my brain by now, haha.
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post #2059 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 05:27 PM
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I "get it", but...just because I can playback pink-noise at a certain decibel level at a certain volume level without exceeding the voltage my pre (or amplifiers) can supply doesn't mean I can play back music that has extremely heavy bass at that same volume level, right? This gets even "crazier" as we add crossover networks and active amplification. Or...maybe I'm just overthinking it and missing something.
Pink noise?? Don't play any noise.

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post #2060 of 3673 Old 03-04-2020, 05:36 PM
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Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.
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What does this sentence mean? Loudness compensation and Audyssey Dynamic EQ are the exact same thing with different names, as far as I know. In both cases you're adjusting the target curve based on volume setting to maintain "equal loudness" with fletcher-munson. I like that it's included in the HTP-1 because it is very useful when you're listening below reference level.
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What do you mean by "nothing dynamic"? Is the curve static? I think the dynamic EQ provided by Audyssey changes the compensation curve depending on the listening level, it has a "reference level offset" which tries (poorly, IMO) to compensate for content / source differences.

My opinion, I'd prefer a dynamically configurable control whose sole responsibility is to allow me to adjust the "reference level offset" on-the-fly (manually). More often than not, when I make changes to my volume it's to compensate for content differences (e.g., I'm targeting a level, which is what my volume is set at, but the content is too low, so I have to turn it up). However, if I turn it up and that causes the curve to adjust (like Audyssey would), then I'm not only turning it up I'm also adjusting the "tone control" (which isn't what I want). Basically, I want:

  • Volume control - to adjust the gain and determine how much "loudness compensation" is needed. Essentially, this sets my "target dB level". Which is how it "should" work, until you realize that content controls this just as much as the gain applied.

  • Content offset control - to adjust the gain, but not to touch the "loudness compensation" -- strictly, this compensates for how "quiet" the piece is. Essentially, this is a manual version of what you love about Roon's normalization. I am setting the amount of "normalization" I think is required for a piece.

It'd also be really nice to be able to configure how the "loudness compensation" works. Some people (myself included) like to add even more bass as the volume level goes up. Essentially, it saturates the system with bass before the highs...and usually, when I'm turning up my system more and more, it's because I want to feel more bass, but the highs only need to go up a touch, just enough so they don't get swamped in bass. I would've liked to believe this would be linear, but our hearing is logarithmic, so....it's not "that simple". I believe Audyssey is reversed, more bass is added at lower volume levels (as per the reference level offset), but as you turn it up, the bass ends up becoming anemic compared to the highs. It's worse, actually, than something that adds a static house-curve to any volume level, IMO.

I suppose I can probably just sum this up with, "I really like bass, lots of it...I'll take just enough highs to clearly hear over it" haha.
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Just to add to Marcus's reply, I would say that while there is an old-school "loudness compensation" equalizer in the HTP-1, there is nothing dynamic about it -- and that's a good thing.

HTP loudness compensation is nondynamic in that the EQ is fixed for a given setting of the volume control, and not a function of the dynamically varying signal level.

I may well be mistaken, but I thought that Audyssey Dynamic Volume does change EQ as a function of signal level.
For those of you who have tested Audyssey Dynamic EQ and HTP-1 Loudness Compensation, did you notice a performance difference?

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I may well be mistaken, but I thought that Audyssey Dynamic Volume does change EQ as a function of signal level.
It does and so does Dolby Volume. Audyssey Dynamic EQ and HTP loudness compensation change only with MV.
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It does and so does Dolby Volume. Audyssey Dynamic EQ and HTP loudness compensation change only with MV.
Audyssey Dynamic EQ also changes based on the signal (as does Dynamic Volume). It is not static like HTP's compensation.

Chris K explained it:
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If you have a passage of music that has loud and soft parts when you’re at high volumes, and then you lower the volume, the soft parts need more correction than the louder parts. So we had to invent a way of measuring perceived loudness in every channel, running in real time. And that’s what Dynamic EQ does. Every channel has its own loudness meter that looks at the content as its coming through and estimates—based on the signal and our human models—how a human will perceive it. So it makes minute adjustments, and of course it doesn’t just rapidly go up and down or you would notice it. We smooth it out. That’s part of the innovation here—that’s why we called it Dynamic.
Source.

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Audyssey Dynamic EQ also changes based on the signal (as does Dynamic Volume). It is not static like HTP's compensation.

Chris K explained it: Source.
No, Audyssey Dynamic EQ changes only with MV. Probably just a typo.

Regarding Dynamic Volume, I find the logic behind it is seriously flawed as is the logic behind Dolby Volume. The HTP does it right (except a feature like Audysseys "reference offset" is missing). So probably nothing we need to go into detail here

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No, Audyssey Dynamic EQ changes only with MV. Probably just a typo.
Which are you saying is the typo -- that Dynamic EQ is, or is not, well, dynamic. I have provided evidence that DEQ is indeed dynamic -- responsive to the input signal.

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Which are you saying is the typo -- that Dynamic EQ is, or is not, well, dynamic. I have provided evidence that DEQ is indeed dynamic -- responsive to the input signal.
In the quote Kris was talking about Dynamic Volume not Dynamic EQ.

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In the quote Kris was talking about Dynamic Volume not Dynamic EQ.
The article has a separate sections for each, DEQ and D-Vol. It is quite specific that each has distinct operational goals.

Is there some other reference that says otherwise? An AES paper perhaps?

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post #2067 of 3673 Old 03-05-2020, 02:59 AM
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The article has a separate sections for each, DEQ and D-Vol. It is quite specific that each has distinct operational goals.

Is there some other reference that says otherwise? An AES paper perhaps?
There is an AES paper (I think - would need to look through my library though) but there's also the Audyssey FAQ, countless AVRs with Dynamic EQ/Volume and accompanying manuals

Don't get hung up on the "dynamic" part so much. An EQ that changes its characteristics based on MV can be called "dynamic", just as a EQ can be called "dynamic" that changes with program level/loudness. It's a meaningless descriptor. They operate very differently though for sure.

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post #2068 of 3673 Old 03-05-2020, 03:15 AM
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There is an AES paper (if think - would need to look through my library though) but there's also the Audyssey FAQ, countless AVRs with Dynamic EQ/Volume and accompanying manuals
How about this?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...a-1726.html#g2
>>Dynamic EQ continually adjusts the frequencies...<<

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post #2069 of 3673 Old 03-05-2020, 03:22 AM
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How about this?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...a-1726.html#g2
>>Dynamic EQ continually adjusts the frequencies...<<
You don't give up finding quotes that seem to support your (mis)understanding of Dynamic EQ. The full quote: "When Dynamic EQ is engaged, as you lower the volume away from 'reference' (ie master Volume of 0dB), Dynamic EQ continually adjusts the frequencies and surround levels to maintain the balance that the mixing engineer wanted you to hear."

"as you lower the volume" = turn the MV knob to the left

If one really wants to know if there's a part in Dynamic EQ that reacts dynamically to program level then there's an easy test: engage Dynamic EQ (switch off Dynamic Volume). Set MV to something like -20dB or lower (so Dynamic EQ does something). Then measure a preamp output with full bandwidth pink noise at different test signal levels. If the overall magnitude shape stays the same then there's no dynamic part reacting to program level. If the shape changes then Dynamic EQ does indeed change with program level.

I have no horse in this race, haven't had an Audyssey equipped AVR in years. Equal loudness compensation is factored in my DL target curves. Using basically just one single compensation curve these days.

In our context here (HTP-1) I think that loudness control should NOT change dynamically based on program level. It should only change dynamically based on MV. The simple reason is that equal loudness contours (per ISO) fall off monotonically with level:



So in my opinion the HTP-1 does it right although there should be something like Audyssey's RLO (reference level offset) to account for other effects like recordings that were mastered at/for different listening levels, preference, etc. Or, get rid of all this complicated stuff and offer a simple good old bass tone control.
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post #2070 of 3673 Old 03-05-2020, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
You don't give up finding quotes that seem to support your (mis)understanding of Dynamic EQ. The full quote: "When Dynamic EQ is engaged, as you lower the volume away from 'reference' (ie master Volume of 0dB), Dynamic EQ continually adjusts the frequencies and surround levels to maintain the balance that the mixing engineer wanted you to hear."

"as you lower the volume" = turn the MV knob to the left

If one really wants to know if there's a part in Dynamic EQ that reacts dynamically to program level then there's an easy test: engage Dynamic EQ (switch off Dynamic Volume). Set MV to something like -20dB or lower (so Dynamic EQ does something). Then measure a preamp output with full bandwidth pink noise at different test signal levels. If the overall magnitude shape stays the same then there's no dynamic part reacting to program level. If the shape changes then Dynamic EQ does indeed change with program level.

I have no horse in this race, haven't had an Audyssey equipped AVR in years. Equal loudness compensation is factored in my DL target curves. Using basically just one single compensation curve these days.

In our context here (HTP-1) I think that loudness control should NOT change dynamically based on program level. It should only change dynamically based on MV. The simple reason is that equal loudness contours (per ISO) fall off monotonically with level:



So in my opinion the HTP-1 does it right although there should be something like Audyssey's RLO (reference level offset) to account for other effects like recordings that were mastered at/for different listening levels, preference, etc. Or, get rid of all this complicated stuff and offer a simple good old bass tone control.
Thanks for all this info!

I'm still curious to know if going from a SR7010 as a processor to a HTP-1 or AV8805 would give me better sound quality. I do not need more than 11 channels, I run LCR, Wides, Surrounds and 4 top speakers.

When I installed my Monolith 7X, the sound quality difference compared to the internal AVR amp section was a lot more than expected. I wonder if a higher quality processor would do the same?

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