Would the Marantz SR5013 be an improvement over the Onkyo NR747? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-28-2020, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Would the Marantz SR5013 be an improvement over the Onkyo NR747?

Looking to maybe replace my current AVR, saw what seems like a great deal on the Marantz SR5013. The only thing about the Marantz that I see as a negative is it’s 10wpc less into 8ohms at 2ch driven than the Onkyo NR747.

I’m okay with making a lateral move, I just don’t want a significant downgrade. Another option could be the Onkyo RZ820, but I’m not sure whether I want to stick with Onkyo at this time. I could do Denon, but I wouldn’t really go lower than the X4500H, but it’s outside of my price range right now.

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post #2 of 16 Old 01-28-2020, 07:44 PM
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10W is not going to make much of an audible difference. Also receiver manufacturers grossly overstate and mislead their power ratings, so you cannot compare numbers across manufacturers. In a nutshell, ignore wattage ratings.

I’m not familiar with Onkyo,or the specific receiver, however since you mentioned they are lateral, I’m assuming they are in the same MSRP ballpark. My money would go to Marantz in a heartbeat. Much better room correction with Audyssey, sits much higher in brand positioning (with some premium internal components compared to Denon), emphasis on sound quality, better reliability reputation (Onkyo had a bad patch a few years ago) etc
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post #3 of 16 Old 01-28-2020, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebrieze01 View Post
10W is not going to make much of an audible difference. Also receiver manufacturers grossly overstate and mislead their power ratings, so you cannot compare numbers across manufacturers. In a nutshell, ignore wattage ratings.

I’m not familiar with Onkyo,or the specific receiver, however since you mentioned they are lateral, I’m assuming they are in the same MSRP ballpark. My money would go to Marantz in a heartbeat. Much better room correction with Audyssey, sits much higher in brand positioning (with some premium internal components compared to Denon), emphasis on sound quality, better reliability reputation (Onkyo had a bad patch a few years ago) etc
That's what I was hoping. Though I find that the 8ohm into 2ch driven specs are generally not misleading. The Onkyo NR747 I have was marketed as a 175wpc AVR, but that's its 6ohm into 1ch driven spec.

I meant lateral more in terms of the WPC spec. I think the Marantz has a lot more going for it - it supports dolby vision, has actual pre-outs, all HDMI ports support 4K HDR (only 3 of the 7 on my Onkyo do), Audyssey is repeatedly noted as being better, etc... They are not in the same MSRP ballpark. I'm not sure what the MSRP in the US was for the NR747 in 2015, but I think that it was significantly less than what the SR5013 was when it first launched.

My brother had the Onkyo RZ810 up until (probably) recently - it was affected by a terrible bug related to the handshake when it would switch to 4K/HDR content. He replaced it with the Denon X4500H.

I'm going to have to sleep on this decision, though. I half told myself I wasn't going to update my AVR until I made the switch to 8K, but I've been feeling as though that needs to happen sooner. I could also at least try to be patient. Because I live in Canada, we get gouged out the wazoo on this stuff.

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post #4 of 16 Old 01-29-2020, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
That's what I was hoping. Though I find that the 8ohm into 2ch driven specs are generally not misleading. The Onkyo NR747 I have was marketed as a 175wpc AVR, but that's its 6ohm into 1ch driven spec.

I meant lateral more in terms of the WPC spec. I think the Marantz has a lot more going for it - it supports dolby vision, has actual pre-outs, all HDMI ports support 4K HDR (only 3 of the 7 on my Onkyo do), Audyssey is repeatedly noted as being better, etc... They are not in the same MSRP ballpark. I'm not sure what the MSRP in the US was for the NR747 in 2015, but I think that it was significantly less than what the SR5013 was when it first launched.

My brother had the Onkyo RZ810 up until (probably) recently - it was affected by a terrible bug related to the handshake when it would switch to 4K/HDR content. He replaced it with the Denon X4500H.

I'm going to have to sleep on this decision, though. I half told myself I wasn't going to update my AVR until I made the switch to 8K, but I've been feeling as though that needs to happen sooner. I could also at least try to be patient. Because I live in Canada, we get gouged out the wazoo on this stuff.
1. As previously noted above, a 10W difference won't be noticeable, so power difference should not be part of your decision when comparing these two models.
2. The version of Audyssey MultEQ XT on the SR5013 being arguably better than ACCUEQ at that time, although not near as good as XT32 on the X4500H and SR6013.
3. They are both in the same MSRP ballpark as both models were released at the same MSRP in the USA.

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post #5 of 16 Old 01-29-2020, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. As previously noted above, a 10W difference won't be noticeable, so power difference should not be part of your decision when comparing these two models.
2. The version of Audyssey MultEQ XT on the SR5013 being arguably better than ACCUEQ at that time, although not near as good as XT32 on the X4500H and SR6013.
3. They are both in the same MSRP ballpark as both models were released at the same MSRP in the USA.
Yeah, I didn't really think 10wpc was going to make that much of a difference, if at all.

I'd be happy with any improvement over AccuEQ, frankly. I've gotten some really wacky readings from it after moving my HT into a different space this past week. There is also an SR6013 on for a rather good deal, too, but it's really pushing how much I could spend right now (also, I don't really like to spend much more than $500 on an AVR, but recognize that investing a bit more is sometimes worth doing).

I had no idea, really, since I wouldn't have been looking at Marantz at that time, and I got my NR747 brand new for $500 CDN (which retailed for about $1200 CDN at the time). I just assumed because Onkyo tends to be the least expensive of the 3 (Onkyo, Denon, Marantz) that they wouldn't be in the same MSRP ballpark.

The smart thing to do would be for me to wait a little while longer, though.

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post #6 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. As previously noted above, a 10W difference won't be noticeable, so power difference should not be part of your decision when comparing these two models.
2. The version of Audyssey MultEQ XT on the SR5013 being arguably better than ACCUEQ at that time, although not near as good as XT32 on the X4500H and SR6013.
3. They are both in the same MSRP ballpark as both models were released at the same MSRP in the USA.
What would be the better choice, in your opinion? The Marantz SR5013 or the Denon X4300H?

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post #7 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 03:44 PM
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Why are you looking to make a change at all? Just try something new?
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
Why are you looking to make a change at all? Just try something new?
Looking to try something other than Onkyo, mostly because of the room correction/calibration software.

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post #9 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Looking to try something other than Onkyo, mostly because of the room correction/calibration software.
Might be worth looking into REW and a UMIK to see if you really need room correction and, if so, what you can achieve with the receiver itself. Not necessarily as sexy as grabbing a new piece of gear but IMO very interesting.
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Looking to maybe replace my current AVR, saw what seems like a great deal on the Marantz SR5013. The only thing about the Marantz that I see as a negative is it’s 10wpc less into 8ohms at 2ch driven than the Onkyo NR747.

I’m okay with making a lateral move, I just don’t want a significant downgrade. Another option could be the Onkyo RZ820, but I’m not sure whether I want to stick with Onkyo at this time. I could do Denon, but I wouldn’t really go lower than the X4500H, but it’s outside of my price range right now.
I had a Marantz 6011 for a short while that wasn't bad. I just couldn't deal with the porthole and what I perceived as a significant roll off in the highs. Please keep in mind that they are 2 very different sounding receivers with the Onkyo having a more aggressive, but controlled sound geared more towards home theater. I second the idea of getting to know REW and UMIK, but if you must satisfy the curiosity of Audessey, or something non-AccuEq, just save up for the Denon that your budget allows. I'd like to know how they compared to you.
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post #11 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
What would be the better choice, in your opinion? The Marantz SR5013 or the Denon X4300H?
The X4300H (and the SR6013 for that matter) uses the much more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and also features Audyssey Sub EQ HT (ie. independent dual sub level/delay).

The Denon sister model to the SR5013 is the X2500H.
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 11:08 PM
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If you want Audyssey XT32/SubEq, the lowest end Denon model that has it is the AVR-X3500H. (Or 3300W or 3400H, if you go for the older versions.) They are 7.2 channel AVRs. (The 2019 X3600H is very different: process 11 channels but has 9 onboard amps, like a 4300/4400/4500.) I'm unaware of any exact parallel in the Marantz line. The SR6013 is their lowest XT32 model, but its's a 9/11 channel unit like the Denon 4500.
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-03-2020, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spacecowboy View Post
I had a Marantz 6011 for a short while that wasn't bad. I just couldn't deal with the porthole and what I perceived as a significant roll off in the highs. Please keep in mind that they are 2 very different sounding receivers with the Onkyo having a more aggressive, but controlled sound geared more towards home theater. I second the idea of getting to know REW and UMIK, but if you must satisfy the curiosity of Audessey, or something non-AccuEq, just save up for the Denon that your budget allows. I'd like to know how they compared to you.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X4300H (and the SR6013 for that matter) uses the much more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and also features Audyssey Sub EQ HT (ie. independent dual sub level/delay).

The Denon sister model to the SR5013 is the X2500H.
So perhaps against my better judgment, I went ahead and got the X4300H. Despite it being an even older model than either the 5013 or 6013, it has all of the features that I believe I need right now (and more than what I currently have), and it was within the ballpark of how much I was willing to spend. I'm looking forward to seeing how this differs from my current Onkyo. I'm most looking forward to the more refined calibration software.

Umik & REW is an eventual next step. It's been on my mind a bunch for a while. I'd love to see how things measure in my space.

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Alright, so... because the X4300H turned out to be a dud, I've had to go back to the drawing board. Right now, there are three choices I'm looking at:

1. Marantz SR6014
2. Denon X3600H
3. Denon X3500H

The price difference between the Marantz and the X3600H is about $77 (the Marantz being the higher-priced item), so pretty negligible. The X3500H is about $300 cheaper, but also from the same place as the dud X4300H, so I'm not sure whether I want to go with them again as it was claimed to have been thoroughly tested, yet such an obvious flaw was missed.

Am I splitting hairs or is there a clear winner amongst these 3?

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Would the Marantz SR5013 be an improvement over the Onkyo NR747?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Alright, so... because the X4300H turned out to be a dud, I've had to go back to the drawing board. Right now, there are three choices I'm looking at:



1. Marantz SR6014

2. Denon X3600H

3. Denon X3500H



The price difference between the Marantz and the X3600H is about $77 (the Marantz being the higher-priced item), so pretty negligible. The X3500H is about $300 cheaper, but also from the same place as the dud X4300H, so I'm not sure whether I want to go with them again as it was claimed to have been thoroughly tested, yet such an obvious flaw was missed.



Am I splitting hairs or is there a clear winner amongst these 3?


Off the top of my head, not familiar enough with the Marantz to comment on it, but imo, the 3600 is better than the 3500. Heat is an issue and lack of power when pushing multi channels at high level, and the 3600 has drastically better cooling. Much better heat sinks and dual cooling fans. I would think this would lead to better performance when pushed, and running cooler should promote longer life.

At a glance, the 6014 seems overpriced compared to the 3600. I would need to see a definitive objective advantage.

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post #16 of 16 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Off the top of my head, not familiar enough with the Marantz to comment on it, but imo, the 3600 is better than the 3500. Heat is an issue and lack of power when pushing multi channels at high level, and the 3600 has drastically better cooling. Much better heat sinks and dual cooling fans. I would think this would lead to better performance when pushed, and running cooler should promote longer life.

At a glance, the 6014 seems overpriced compared to the 3600. I would need to see a definitive objective advantage.

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Thanks for the reply

Yeah, I had the X4300H running not for very long, and it was startlingly warm at barely an hour's initial use (before troubleshooting the problem), and I had really only gone through the Audyssey calibration, and a little bit of TV watching. I don't think I push my equipment at all - sitting fairly close (6 feet away at most) probably helps in that since I don't have to turn the volume up that much. I've never heard the fan on my Onkyo go off (to the point where I thought it may have been broken at some point), and it barely gets above room temperature any time I've touched the top of it.

I mean, both the X3600H and SR6014 have near-identical specs (my understanding is that they're the sister models). The only "major" difference I see is the measly 5 watt difference, but that's so negligible that it's not even worth taking into account. Both being owned by the same company, I'm not sure whether they use different/better components in the Marantz since it's maybe considered a higher-tier brand or if they just use the same components in both, and just charge more for the Marantz because it's considered a higher-tier brand. What I'm mostly after is Audyssey XT32, which both have.

The few things I think the Marantz might have over the Denon is that the SR6014 has 7.1ch audio in as well as the pre-outs while the X3600H only has the pre-outs. Not sure what that does, specifically, but something tells me that that would be good for something (miniDSP, perhaps?). There's also HDAM in the Marantz that isn't present in the Denon.

I had a look at both through through some form of comparison here: https://www.zkelectronics.com/compar...ntz-sr6014/uk/ and they listed no advantages the X3600H had over the SR6014 (they just skipped that part altogether, probably because they're so identical), which I have never seen in all of the comparisons I've looked at on this site. Both of these AVRs trounce my current AVR in their comparison, so I am fairly confident that either of them will be a significant upgrade, even if it's just Audyssey.

I feel as though I probably couldn't go wrong with either. The Marantz is a much better "deal" at $900 off of the retail vs. ~$425 off of the Denon. I could also just bide my time, and wait for the prices to drop a little more, but that small taste of the X4300H has had me itching.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

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