The Official NAD T 778 Thread - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 646 Old 05-29-2020, 06:57 PM
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I’m hoping the 778 can address AV Sync issues with LG C9. Would be great if can ‘minus’ from ‘zero’ the delay adjustment. My current Denon X4200w doesn’t go negative ‘0’, only ‘+’.
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post #482 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tigerljj1 View Post
I’m hoping the 778 can address AV Sync issues with LG C9. Would be great if can ‘minus’ from ‘zero’ the delay adjustment. My current Denon X4200w doesn’t go negative ‘0’, only ‘+’.
So you are confirming that the NAD T778 has a long processing delay resulting in the audio playing later than the video am I right? I have a C9 too. This was exactly the issue that I was concerned about since I do not see an option to turn on Game Mode Audio Processing like on the Denon/Marantz where the Dolby Surround upmixer and DTS Neural X upmixer processes the audio much more quicker than the typical Movie and especially Music processing mode with the latter producing an even worst amount of audio delay relative to the video.

Have you managed to get any workarounds for it?
Also have you brought this issue up to NAD to make them aware of this issue especially with 2020 TVs with HDMI 2.1 and ALLM (Auto Low Latency Mode) coming and some like the C9 that is already here which makes the slower audio even more noticeable and jarring?
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post #483 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by stainboy View Post
Like Markus said, I measured with REW and found the best location. Best here means limited and constrained to where you can actually place the subs, this will be a compromise. With miniDSP make fine tune adjustments to potentially maximise integration between them, then run Dirac. I used painters tape on the floor to keep track of placement according to the results I was getting. Nevertheless, room can really make or break things, depending on how flexible you can be with the location of the subs...
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
A MiniDSP 2x4 will be needed if:

Your subs are not equidistant from your seat, and

Your subs do not have a true time delay or do not have enough delay adjustment to amount for the difference in distance. Rythmik and PSA subs have delay adjustments. You'll want to investigate others - most have a phase adjustment, which is not suitable for this.
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I just cited the general recommendation, but I should probably have said "may" need one. If your subs are on opposite ends of the room like mine, you only get acoustic coupling from 30Hz and down. However without auto room EQ, I just adjust delays until I get the best FR, and if that means they end up time aligned, great, but I personally haven't sought out that exercise specifically. Sometimes the best response isn't with time alignment.
Thanks guys. The subs are currently abt a foot out along the front wall just behind each main speaker. I can only move the subs a foot either way along the main wall so I am constrained by my room. Sub delay is set at 0ms by Dirac.

Below are the REW measurements based on the current positions. Not sure how accurate the REW Room Sim tool is but seems the current sub positions seems to be the 'smoothest'. I seem to recall the Dirac measurement looks a little different though. Would a Minidsp further improve the current response?
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post #484 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 07:41 AM
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Thanks guys. The subs are currently abt a foot out along the front wall just behind each main speaker. I can only move the subs a foot either way along the main wall so I am constrained by my room. Sub delay is set at 0ms by Dirac.

Below are the REW measurements based on the current positions. Not sure how accurate the REW Room Sim tool is but seems the current sub positions seems to be the 'smoothest'. I seem to recall the Dirac measurement looks a little different though. Would a Minidsp further improve the current response?
This looks already very good. I'd run pink noise through both subs and look at the live response with the RTA. Then move the subs and check if the response gets even better. Or is this post DL?

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Last edited by markus767; 05-30-2020 at 07:46 AM.
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post #485 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 11:39 AM
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Centre spread and dolby robbing it`s base?

Good day

i have a T778 on back order and can`t wait to get it

i am especially excited about trying up sampling,but have recently heard some bad news about dolby.

As of 2020 they have apparently removed the centre spread ability in up sampling(at least in Atmos)

That being as of 2020 and T778 being built before 2020 will my T778 have centre spread or not?

i have also read Dolby is removing that centre spread in updates on older AVRs as well.That appears criminal to me,esp if you bought an amp for that feature

As i understand dolby is investing in Atmos up sampling in other areas-titles like tidal etc,and this is pure financial rip off to try and get everyone onto their new for sale.But alas i would buy all that anyhow,but i have tons of music titles not available,likely never available in surround,so up sampling is important

i feel stressed and a wee bit of buyers remorse until i know if my T778 will have this or not

Cheers mates
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post #486 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Around 3:47? That's in the audio file. Not the same type of distortion you get with Rhye "Feel your weight".

Thanks for the confirmation!


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post #487 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
So you are confirming that the NAD T778 has a long processing delay resulting in the audio playing later than the video am I right? I have a C9 too. This was exactly the issue that I was concerned about since I do not see an option to turn on Game Mode Audio Processing like on the Denon/Marantz where the Dolby Surround upmixer and DTS Neural X upmixer processes the audio much more quicker than the typical Movie and especially Music processing mode with the latter producing an even worst amount of audio delay relative to the video.

Have you managed to get any workarounds for it?
Also have you brought this issue up to NAD to make them aware of this issue especially with 2020 TVs with HDMI 2.1 and ALLM (Auto Low Latency Mode) coming and some like the C9 that is already here which makes the slower audio even more noticeable and jarring?
Sorry! Let me clarify; my NAD is not set up yet. This is with my C9 and Denon setup. Didn’t have these delays with my C6. I just got my C9 about 2 weeks ago. So I’m hoping I don’t have same issues when I set up the NAD or so at least can address with the NAD. Setting up NAD tomorrow; I’ll report back.

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post #488 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerljj1 View Post
Sorry! Let me clarify; my NAD is not set up yet. This is with my C9 and Denon setup. Didn’t have these delays with my C6. I just got my C9 about 2 weeks ago. So I’m hoping I don’t have same issues when I set up the NAD or so at least can address with the NAD. Setting up NAD tomorrow; I’ll report back.
I see! I look forward to your findings and results when you get this all set up. As I too have the same TV as you and was thinking of getting the T778 as well.

Hoping that NAD's newer hardware can help the Dolby Surround Upmixer or DTS Neural X upmixer or even the native Dolby Atmos and DTS: X decoder process the audio quicker and therefore not cause a lipsync issue that you are well aware of with Denon when using certain audio modes on the it that causes the audio to play way later than the C9 due to the C9 being able to display the video faster than audio especially in Game Mode and especially in ALLM.
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post #489 of 646 Old 05-30-2020, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
This looks already very good. I'd run pink noise through both subs and look at the live response with the RTA. Then move the subs and check if the response gets even better. Or is this post DL?
You are right..I forgot to turn off DL ! . Still a noob at using REW but Jerry's guide is a godsend. Here are the correct measurements.
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post #490 of 646 Old 05-31-2020, 11:36 PM
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I know unlikely given how new it is but any brave souls willing to send their unit to Amir at ASR for testing?

NAD T758 V3, Nakamichi AVP1 Power amp, DIY LCR, 4 x DIYSG Volt 8 Surrounds, AT IC-6.3 Atmos, 2 x DIY BMS 18N862 Sealed Subs, Twin CS1214 BOSS Sub .
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post #491 of 646 Old 05-31-2020, 11:57 PM
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May i know, how many of you guys are having problem with dtsx files. I remember only 2 for now, including me.

Wanted to know, if this is a common problem or not.

Thanks in advance
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post #492 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by iV1n5 View Post
Hi all, quick question. I'm used to turn on dynamic volume with audyssey on my current denons. I'm going to buy this NAD anyway but I'd like to know how the T 778 manage to compress the dynamic range of the audio. I read from the manual there are two setups named Dolby and DTS - Dynamic Range Control. In particular I'm wondering why there are two separated features for the two distinct audio codecs. Do they work in a different way, with different processing? And then, what about PCM? Can I reduce the dynamic range for PCM inputs? The question comes as I own an apple tv which only output is PCM.
up? anybody?
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post #493 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by siju uralath View Post
May i know, how many of you guys are having problem with dtsx files. I remember only 2 for now, including me.

Wanted to know, if this is a common problem or not.

Thanks in advance
I have the same problem with DTS X films all 7 films are the same. And nad has tested the and confirmed that they can see the problem as well. Just let nad know.

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post #494 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by markymiles View Post
I know unlikely given how new it is but any brave souls willing to send their unit to Amir at ASR for testing?
I am sending mine in to Amir, but it might be a few more weeks until my order is shipped. Fingers crossed the next batch is shipped soon.
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post #495 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by iV1n5 View Post
up? anybody?
The DRC does not works on PCM signal. only works on dolby or DTS signals bitstreamed to the NAD.
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post #496 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 01:55 AM
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I have the same problem with DTS X films all 7 films are the same. And nad has tested the and confirmed that they can see the problem as well. Just let nad know.
Thanks.

I have sent out support request to NAD. Kindly do update, once you are able to resolve or find any solution.
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post #497 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by siju uralath View Post
The DRC does not works on PCM signal. only works on dolby or DTS signals bitstreamed to the NAD.
You can't use the Dolby Surround Upmixer or DTS Neural-X upmixer on PCM source?

If I use the Dolby Surround Upmixer, then Dirac Room Correction should be active right?
So therefore, using DSU on a PCM source should make Dirac Live Room Correction be active am I right to say that?

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post #498 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by iV1n5 View Post
Hi all, quick question. I'm used to turn on dynamic volume with audyssey on my current denons. I'm going to buy this NAD anyway but I'd like to know how the T 778 manage to compress the dynamic range of the audio. I read from the manual there are two setups named Dolby and DTS - Dynamic Range Control. In particular I'm wondering why there are two separated features for the two distinct audio codecs. Do they work in a different way, with different processing? And then, what about PCM? Can I reduce the dynamic range for PCM inputs? The question comes as I own an apple tv which only output is PCM.

I understand this might a topic you don't wont to cover in a high-end amplifier but still, i'd like to use it in special occasions when I need to use the APTV a more quite environment.

Thanks.
DRC ("Dynamic Range Control") is part of the Dolby and DTS decoder processing. They both have their own way of doing it. NAD doesn't provide similar processing for PCM.

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Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
You can't use the Dolby Surround Upmixer or DTS Neural-X upmixer on PCM source?

If I use the Dolby Surround Upmixer, then Dirac Room Correction should be active right?
So therefore, using DSU on a PCM source should make Dirac Live Room Correction be active am I right to say that?
You can use both upmixers on PCM.
Dirac Live is a room correction system and has nothing to do with the type of input signal, decoder or upmixer. Its filters are applied at the speaker output.
You decide whether Dirac Live is active or not.

Markus

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post #499 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
DRC ("Dynamic Range Control") is part of the Dolby and DTS decoder processing. They both have their own way of doing it. NAD doesn't provide similar processing for PCM.



You can use both upmixers on PCM.
Dirac Live is a room correction system and has nothing to do with the type of input signal, decoder or upmixer. Its filters are applied at the speaker output.
You decide whether Dirac Live is active or not.
Thank you for clearing that up Markus! Much appreciated.
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post #500 of 646 Old 06-01-2020, 07:17 AM
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We can apply Dolby or dts upmixer to any pcm content, however not DRC. DRC works only on true Dolby or dts content and not upmixed pcm source. At least, this is how it works on my T778.
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Hi, thank you all for the replies. So, just to say it in a different way: this T 778 does not provide a way to compress the audio dynamic for all inputs.
Not even Dirac has something like that system wide, right? A compression applied to the output like it does for the corrections.
Thanks.
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post #502 of 646 Old 06-04-2020, 11:30 PM
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So - DIRAC 3.0 is out.
At this time NAD gear doesn't get the Bass Control system to work. (my C658 is the same)
It is just the same as all previous versions. Perhaps some internal Dirac tweaks... not sure.
But no Bass thingy.
Perhaps someone who knows what they are talking about can inform group here... I presume we would get a firmware update?

I bought a MiniDSP UMIK 1 - I confirm that it sounds a lot better through this microphone and calibration file.
having said that it sounded fantastic before new microphone.
I confirm also that I don't know how I lived with just one subwoofer. Just get 2. Trust me.
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post #503 of 646 Old 06-05-2020, 10:45 PM
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So I had my hands on the NAD T 778 finally for the past few days. Following the advice of someone who knows NAD and Dirac, they recommended doing 1 of the tighter measurements instead of choosing wide. What a big difference it makes. Wide just made everything sound messy.

And thanks to someone who gave a tip to ask for a discount code from Dirac on Facebook, got my hands on a discount code that gave me around 20% off for the Full Dirac Live software.

From my experience, even though the recommended range of correction should be on the bass end, what I find with comparing between a limited range room correction vs the full range room correction is that it makes the speakers sound very synchronized to the point where I really can't pinpoint where the sound is coming from. All the speakers seem to blend into 1 with no 1 speaker having a different higher pitch sound than the other vs if I follow the recommended room correction range should be where I can pinpoint some speakers which has a much louder high pitch than another speaker for example. So to me, making it flat from 20hz to 20kHz makes everything sound very well balanced from all the speakers with no one speaker being more excited than the other. Love it.


However, the issue I have now is that the T778 tends to lose the Dirac Live profiles stored on the 3 slots when the receiver has not been receiving power for a few hours. This means that I have to constantly keep using the Dirac Live software to upload the calibration profile back into the T778 from time to time which is quite annoying.
Is this a sign that my unit needs repair or is this a firmware issue? Mine comes with the latest firmware. So there was no upgrade except for the BluOS side.
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post #504 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
So I had my hands on the NAD T 778 finally for the past few days. Following the advice of someone who knows NAD and Dirac, they recommended doing 1 of the tighter measurements instead of choosing wide. What a big difference it makes. Wide just made everything sound messy.

And thanks to someone who gave a tip to ask for a discount code from Dirac on Facebook, got my hands on a discount code that gave me around 20% off for the Full Dirac Live software.

From my experience, even though the recommended range of correction should be less on the bass end, what I find with comparing between a limited range room correction vs the full range room correction is that it makes the speakers sound very synchronized to the point where I really can't pinpoint where the sound is coming from. All the speakers seem to blend into 1 with no 1 speaker having a different higher pitch sound than the other vs if I follow the recommended room correction range should be where I can pinpoint some speakers which has a much louder high pitch than another speaker for example. So to me, making it flat from 20hz to 20kHz makes everything sound very well balanced from all the speakers with no one speaker being more excited than the other. Love it.


However, the issue I have now is that the T778 tends to lose the Dirac Live profiles stored on the 3 slots when the receiver has not been receiving power for a few hours. This means that I have to constantly keep using the Dirac Live software to upload the calibration profile back into the T778 from time to time which is quite annoying.
Is this a sign that my unit needs repair or is this a firmware issue? Mine comes with the latest firmware. So there was no upgrade except for the BluOS side.
Hi, great that you're enjoying the 778.
In my case, I prefer the wide. But then again, I guess it depends on the room. I tried tight and got similar experience on my seating position (middle), not so much while seating at the extremities. Speaking of localization, last night watching Unbroken I got that feeling of spaciossness but there are moments I can clearly listen to specific sounds coming from different places, maybe not being able to say it was a particular speaker, just that it came from "there". I'm using the full range (20-20) but I'm not applying the filter all the way, especially after 18k because for some reason it dips on some speakers and I didn't want Dirac to boost those frequencies over 8db. Need to move my panels to correct those instead of trying to boost them.

Now the slots part... I have that as well. I never power off mine (reall power off, I leave on standby) but I do loose one or all slots when powering on. Doesn't happen often and sometimes it just looses the name and the slots are still there. Turn off and back on and they show up again. If powered off from behind, more often than not, they really go away and I have to load them again. Then I can load 1 and 2 and the third one even though it loads, it replaces one of the other and I have to repeat it. Sometimes it loads all with no problem. I think there is some sequence that works flawless but I haven't pin pointed exactly how. It doesn't happen much and I haven't been experimenting unless they don't show and like I said, power off and on usually does the trick. Coming from a Denon this is totally unnacceptable but having following up on some of the most recent receivers and processors status, this is such a small "problem" that I can surely live with it. But being honest, I wish I had went with the T758 and saved a ton of money for the same result in terms of audio performance, considering I use all external amps, my guess is that I would have been happy with it. Switching refresh rate and sources especially on the nvidia shield also gives me trouble sometimes since it loses signal and I get "rain". What I realized is that there's a combination f factors for some things to happen, it is not random but I haven't figured out exactly what trigger always causes something.
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post #505 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 02:53 AM
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Hi, great that you're enjoying the 778.
In my case, I prefer the wide. But then again, I guess it depends on the room. I tried tight and got similar experience on my seating position (middle), not so much while seating at the extremities. Speaking of localization, last night watching Unbroken I got that feeling of spaciossness but there are moments I can clearly listen to specific sounds coming from different places, maybe not being able to say it was a particular speaker, just that it came from "there". I'm using the full range (20-20) but I'm not applying the filter all the way, especially after 18k because for some reason it dips on some speakers and I didn't want Dirac to boost those frequencies over 8db. Need to move my panels to correct those instead of trying to boost them.

Now the slots part... I have that as well. I never power off mine (reall power off, I leave on standby) but I do loose one or all slots when powering on. Doesn't happen often and sometimes it just looses the name and the slots are still there. Turn off and back on and they show up again. If powered off from behind, more often than not, they really go away and I have to load them again. Then I can load 1 and 2 and the third one even though it loads, it replaces one of the other and I have to repeat it. Sometimes it loads all with no problem. I think there is some sequence that works flawless but I haven't pin pointed exactly how. It doesn't happen much and I haven't been experimenting unless they don't show and like I said, power off and on usually does the trick. Coming from a Denon this is totally unnacceptable but having following up on some of the most recent receivers and processors status, this is such a small "problem" that I can surely live with it. But being honest, I wish I had went with the T758 and saved a ton of money for the same result in terms of audio performance, considering I use all external amps, my guess is that I would have been happy with it. Switching refresh rate and sources especially on the nvidia shield also gives me trouble sometimes since it loses signal and I get "rain". What I realized is that there's a combination f factors for some things to happen, it is not random but I haven't figured out exactly what trigger always causes something.
Oh! Does yours have that 'pop' sound coming out of your speakers when you Power On the T778 as well? Never had that with my Marantz and Denon before. Gave me quite a shock even now whenever I turn my receiver on. Hahaha!
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post #506 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
Oh! Does yours have that 'pop' sound coming out of your speakers when you Power On the T778 as well? Never had that with my Marantz and Denon before. Gave me quite a shock even now whenever I turn my receiver on. Hahaha!
Yes. It's not very noticeable. But if I'm paying attention, I hear it all the time, switching inputs, on Plex when it changes refresh rate (menu into movies and back), nvidia shield the same, AppleTV the same. I tried raising the volume to see if it would "pop" or "thud" louder...but it doesn't. I had a Sony that did that just on power ON. Anyway, it is faint and doesn't look like it could damage anything. I'm making a list of annoyances to report to NAD.
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post #507 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 11:13 AM
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My nad t778 is getting picked up to go back to nad. The display and internet is totally gone.

AV Nad T778, zidoo uhd2000, Panasonic UB420, Xbox one x , TV LG 55C6, 65 C8,OLED. HD projector 106 Jvc X7900 , Sub Paradigm signature sub1, Speakers monitor audio platinum PL200 PLC150, CP-CT380IDC In-ceiling Dali phantom ikon in wall & 2 phantom kompas 6m in ceiling speakers, 5.1.4 Atmos
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post #508 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 08:20 PM
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No Headphone Jack?

I don't see a headphone jack on the receiver. How do I use my wired headphones?

Also someone mentioned that they used Plex. I thought it didn't have any streaming apps. So it doesn't support Tidal either?
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post #509 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 09:04 PM
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I'm considering swapping out my T777v3 for a T778.
Does it have rock-solid reliability with HDMI CEC?
Is it stable HDMI at 18Gbps?
Is there support for two discrete subwoofers?
Is it getting Dirac Bass Control?
Thanks!
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post #510 of 646 Old 06-06-2020, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucky View Post
My nad t778 is getting picked up to go back to nad. The display and internet is totally gone.
If you set the front display to Temp, not all the remote buttons will trigger the display to turn on again. The only way is to press on the volume button as far I as I know in order for the front display to light up again.
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