The Official NAD T 778 Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 231Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 506 Old 02-28-2020, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
I would assume that the weight difference is due to the hybrid digital amplifiers, correct? The T778 weighs in at approximately half that of the T777 v3. I am intrigued about how these newer amplifiers sound, and the overall difference in the ease of navigation through the touchscreen vs the "Clumsy" menu of the T777 v3. I hope they brought back the ability to see and hear what you are changing in the menu in real time. That's one thing I really missed that the T758 had. Somehow I feel that NAD has gone back to a better menu system, or at least I hoped they did.


The touchscreen on the unit itself is sort of a gimmick, as no one will be getting up to fiddle with the touchscreen every time they want to change something. I wonder if the remote is a duplicate of the touchscreen on the front of the unit itself? Perhaps an app to navigate the menu from a phone or laptop/tablet?

I bet the newer amplifiers will be superior if it they're based on the hypex ncore line, and I bet that screen will help them sell like crazy at the stores. Even if it is a bit of a gimmick--still kinda cool. Though, I wonder if the screen will add additional noise to it all?
HTNUT1975 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 506 Old 02-28-2020, 07:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,436
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4392 Post(s)
Liked: 2550
I just heard a bridged nad 268's with c658 dac/streamer driving polk legends. wow, impressed...with both the nad gear and the speakers. chest slam 1000
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20200228_124020.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	578.1 KB
ID:	2691392  

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is online now  
post #33 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 07:33 AM
Senior Member
 
tebling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
I am intrigued about how these newer amplifiers sound, and the overall difference in the ease of navigation through the touchscreen vs the "Clumsy" menu of the T777 v3.

Have you read the manual? There's a link a few posts back. The menu looks almost identical to the 777v3, both in the OSD and on the touch screen.
tebling is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 07:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tjcinnamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2134 Post(s)
Liked: 642
Hoping they add an HDMI 2.1 module sooner than later.

77" C9 + NAD 758 v3 with Dirac 7.6.4 + Rotel 976 + Panamax M5300-PM
Speakers: Paradigm Prestige 75F's + 55C; 8x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Subs1: 2x LRK Build Thread + 2x Rotel 981 (bridged); retired: VRK Build thread
Subs2: 2x Rythmik LVX12; 2x Dayton HF 12's Ultra-NearField + Crown XLS 2002
MiniDSP HD & Non; DIY Room Treatments: Dutch Floral Prints
tjcinnamon is offline  
post #35 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 07:55 AM
Member
 
peteavnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No eARC?
peteavnj is offline  
post #36 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 02:20 PM
Member
 
mausse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Hoping they add an HDMI 2.1 module sooner than later.


Sure they will...at $699,- that is


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
mausse is offline  
post #37 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
I bet the newer amplifiers will be superior if it they're based on the hypex ncore line, and I bet that screen will help them sell like crazy at the stores. Even if it is a bit of a gimmick--still kinda cool. Though, I wonder if the screen will add additional noise to it all?

The word on the street is that they all but started this new AVR from scratch, as far as the amplification construction is concerned. All of the amps are of hybrid digital construction, and I see no sign of having a torroidal transformer. I didn't see any conformation one way or the other, so I cannot not confirm anything one way or another. The chassis is smaller than the T777 v3, and as previously discussed, it weighs in about half as much as it's predecessor. The T777 v3 is a rather large and heavy AVR, but it is a different class design than the new one. Like you say, the NAD Master Series has achieved some rather impressive rewards for the sound quality of these newly designed Hypex Ncore® products.


The touchscreen interface will show it's merit in due time. I still have my doubts as to the usefulness of a device that requires physical input of the user when it is centrally located right in front of the television and other components.
HTNUT1975 likes this.
bootster is offline  
post #38 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
The word on the street is that they all but started this new AVR from scratch, as far as the amplification construction is concerned. All of the amps are of hybrid digital construction, and I see no sign of having a torroidal transformer. I didn't see any conformation one way or the other, so I cannot not confirm anything one way or another. The chassis is smaller than the T777 v3, and as previously discussed, it weighs in about half as much as it's predecessor. The T777 v3 is a rather large and heavy AVR, but it is a different class design than the new one. Like you say, the NAD Master Series has achieved some rather impressive rewards for the sound quality of these newly designed Hypex Ncore® products.


The touchscreen interface will show it's merit in due time. I still have my doubts as to the usefulness of a device that requires physical input of the user when it is centrally located right in front of the television and other components.
Yeah I tend to agree when it comes to the usefulness of the screen, but if I were designing it, I’d definitely slap it on because it is sharp looking and shiny for the dealer to sell to someone looking at the different physical units. I have high hopes for its sound quality (fingers crossed).
HTNUT1975 is online now  
post #39 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 03:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nonstopdoc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,200
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Is NAD working on a 16 channel PrePro with Dirac like others?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
tjcinnamon likes this.

HT - Seymour Centerstage XD 2.39:1 133" W| JVC X790R | JBL SDP-55 | Nord NC500 | ATI AT528NC | Procella P8/P5V | Revel C763L | Monolith 12" x4
Living Room - LG OLED 65" | Denon X4400H | Monolith 3x200 | KEF Q900 L/R | Paradigm Millenia 20 CC | Polk Surrounds | Rythmik FV15HP x2
nonstopdoc1 is offline  
post #40 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
It looks from the manual that not all the amps are assignable. I was under the impression that they could be. Rather, it is only the surround backs. That’s unfortunate. I was thinking an additional stereo amp for the FL and FL speakers would not only adds he additional required power for the additional channels, but it would be an opportunity to upgrade those channels for stereo. It just doesn’t make sense to me that it wouldn’t be that way.
HTNUT1975 is online now  
post #41 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 05:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tjcinnamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2134 Post(s)
Liked: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
Im in the market for a new avr but holding off for hdmi 2.1 to hopefully use with my c9 oled and the new ps5. does this nad avr



have the ability to support my plan? 4k 120hz
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
I can't find any answer on that one. I've been wondering the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausse View Post
Sure they will...at $699,- that is


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

Cheaper than a whole new AVR

77" C9 + NAD 758 v3 with Dirac 7.6.4 + Rotel 976 + Panamax M5300-PM
Speakers: Paradigm Prestige 75F's + 55C; 8x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Subs1: 2x LRK Build Thread + 2x Rotel 981 (bridged); retired: VRK Build thread
Subs2: 2x Rythmik LVX12; 2x Dayton HF 12's Ultra-NearField + Crown XLS 2002
MiniDSP HD & Non; DIY Room Treatments: Dutch Floral Prints
tjcinnamon is offline  
post #42 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 05:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
It looks from the manual that not all the amps are assignable. I was under the impression that they could be. Rather, it is only the surround backs. That’s unfortunate. I was thinking an additional stereo amp for the FL and FL speakers would not only adds he additional required power for the additional channels, but it would be an opportunity to upgrade those channels for stereo. It just doesn’t make sense to me that it wouldn’t be that way.

The worst thing NAD did, as far as I'm concerned, is to get rid of the jumpers that went from the pre out to the main in, and get rid of the option to use the power amplifier stages in an AVR as standalone power amplifier units, so to speak. In a different note, I got the word from NAD technicians that the bi amp channeling of these AVR's are limited to the front channels only, and I can't bi amp the rear speakers using the built in amplifiers on the AVR. To be a bit clearer, I can only use speakers with crossovers that allow bi amping as front, but not rear speakers. I have just upgraded the crossovers of my rear speakers, and now have found out that I cannot use the built in amplifiers through the menu to bi amp them. Only the fronts can be bi amped through the menu. I have to use separate outboard power amplifiers to power the high and low frequencies of the rear channel speakers in a surround sound setup. My hope was that the T 778 would have assignable amps that would allow me to bi amp the rear speakers thorough the menu, allowing the low frequencies to be powered by two channels (R and L) and the high frequencies to be powered by two others.
bootster is offline  
post #43 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 07:28 PM
Member
 
mausse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Cheaper than a whole new AVR


True, I don’t want to sound too cynical about this but with all the hdmi 2.1 devices around it feels a bit out dated at the the spring of 2020. So with the summer a head I might skip this version and get de V2 with the the 2.1 hdmi version in the fall.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
mausse is offline  
post #44 of 506 Old 02-29-2020, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausse View Post
True, I don’t want to sound too cynical about this but with all the hdmi 2.1 devices around it feels a bit out dated at the the spring of 2020. So with the summer a head I might skip this version and get de V2 with the the 2.1 hdmi version in the fall.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
Yeah I’ve been wondering about this as well. I can’t tell if it’ll obviously be available in the fall, either. It may be a while. All the high end processors being released are also HDMI 2.0.
tebling likes this.
HTNUT1975 is online now  
post #45 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 09:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MCaugusto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BOSTON --- MA ---
Posts: 1,808
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked: 374
Is that an LCD screen or an OLED screen used on the front panel ?
I have not seen any mention of which type of screen it is, not even in the owner's manual.

The last thing i need if i were to purchase a new AVR that uses a front screen to adjust parameters and select inputs is to worry about panel burn-in, considering that i might decide to keep the screen "ON" all the time during daily usage.

Also, the fact that to select any input using the front screen i would have to go through several "layers" to access it really puts a damper on any excitement i have about this product.

Apparently the only way to get quick (normal) access to any input is to use the remote control and i am one of those "pesky" users of AV processors that appreciates front panel buttons for quick access without having to go through a lot of "clicking and waiting" procedures.

Sony XBR-940E, Integra DHC-80.2, Oppo 103, Sound Lab A-1 electrostatic speakers,SVS PC12-NSD subs, InnerSound Electrostatic Amp,, Hafler 220 amp, Harman Kardon PA5800 amp, Pioneer LD-W1, Darbee Darblet, DVDO iScan Mini, Nvidia Shield, Yamaha CR-7, Koss ESP/950, Stax SR-40, Audeze Isine 10, etc, etc.
MCaugusto is offline  
post #46 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 01:09 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Is that an LCD screen or an OLED screen used on the front panel ?
I have not seen any mention of which type of screen it is, not even in the owner's manual.

The last thing i need if i were to purchase a new AVR that uses a front screen to adjust parameters and select inputs is to worry about panel burn-in, considering that i might decide to keep the screen "ON" all the time during daily usage.

Also, the fact that to select any input using the front screen i would have to go through several "layers" to access it really puts a damper on any excitement i have about this product.

Apparently the only way to get quick (normal) access to any input is to use the remote control and i am one of those "pesky" users of AV processors that appreciates front panel buttons for quick access without having to go through a lot of "clicking and waiting" procedures.

Are you saying that you use the front panel controls more than the remote control? And you are concerned that the touchscreen is going to "wear out" at some point in time if you leave it on for extended periods?


It sounds like you will want to have to audition this unit in person if you are interested in purchasing it. I don't think that your questions will be answered unless you have an extended session of hands on experimentation with it.


I'm with you on the fact that there are a lot of questions yet to be answered concerning the nuances of this unit, and the only way to get a satisfactory result would be to get a serious trial session with it. When you do, could you let us know if it has a toroidal transformer if that question hasn't been answered on this thread yet.
bootster is offline  
post #47 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 01:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MCaugusto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BOSTON --- MA ---
Posts: 1,808
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked: 374
No, i am not saying that i would use the screen display more than the remote control but based on my own particular usage of front controls in AV processors for many years now i rather have them available for a much quicker access to inputs as well as all adjustable parameters than having to delve deep into several "layers and clicks" to be able to access them from a touch screen display.

As for the front panel screen, yes, i would be very concerned about permanent burn-in (OLED) considering that i might want to keep the screen "ON" all the time during daily usage.

As for me spending $3K to buy one of these i would never do so until i read professional reviews from reliable sources.

I find it rather odd that under "specifications" in the owner's manual there is no mention of what type of screen is used, be it LCD or OLED.

Sony XBR-940E, Integra DHC-80.2, Oppo 103, Sound Lab A-1 electrostatic speakers,SVS PC12-NSD subs, InnerSound Electrostatic Amp,, Hafler 220 amp, Harman Kardon PA5800 amp, Pioneer LD-W1, Darbee Darblet, DVDO iScan Mini, Nvidia Shield, Yamaha CR-7, Koss ESP/950, Stax SR-40, Audeze Isine 10, etc, etc.
MCaugusto is offline  
post #48 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 01:54 PM
Member
 
pixelknave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Is that an LCD screen or an OLED screen used on the front panel ?
I have not seen any mention of which type of screen it is, not even in the owner's manual.
Assuming it's using the same screen as the M10, it's TFT. Burn-in shouldn't be an issue. EDIT: It is, per the Data Sheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Apparently the only way to get quick (normal) access to any input is to use the remote control and i am one of those "pesky" users of AV processors that appreciates front panel buttons for quick access without having to go through a lot of "clicking and waiting" procedures.
From the videos I've seen, source switch is a 3-tap operation from the top level (Menu -> Source picker -> "Source 1"). But there's also a shortcut: you can swipe left or right to move to the next source, just like clicking the Source buttons on the T777v3 (pg 26 of the manual).

Another thing to consider is that this box supports CEC, and BluOS sources activate automatically. So you might not have to switch sources manually all that often.
tebling and HTNUT1975 like this.

Last edited by pixelknave; 03-01-2020 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Read the manual, found a shortcut.
pixelknave is offline  
post #49 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Is that an LCD screen or an OLED screen used on the front panel ?
I have not seen any mention of which type of screen it is, not even in the owner's manual.

The last thing i need if i were to purchase a new AVR that uses a front screen to adjust parameters and select inputs is to worry about panel burn-in, considering that i might decide to keep the screen "ON" all the time during daily usage.

Also, the fact that to select any input using the front screen i would have to go through several "layers" to access it really puts a damper on any excitement i have about this product.

Apparently the only way to get quick (normal) access to any input is to use the remote control and i am one of those "pesky" users of AV processors that appreciates front panel buttons for quick access without having to go through a lot of "clicking and waiting" procedures.

Burn isn't an issue I had thought about w/respect to OLED v LCD in this implementation. I would be surprised if NAD had not thought about this in its design. My iPhone has an OLED screen and there isn't any burn in. I know there have been some issues when OLEDs were used to hang in airports (or users did not calibrate their TVs properly), but I seriously doubt it would be an issue in this, if it turns out they went this route. EDIT: I did not realize this was already answered, above.
HTNUT1975 is online now  
post #50 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 02:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
No, i am not saying that i would use the screen display more than the remote control but based on my own particular usage of front controls in AV processors for many years now i rather have them available for a much quicker access to inputs as well as all adjustable parameters than having to delve deep into several "layers and clicks" to be able to access them from a touch screen display.

As for the front panel screen, yes, i would be very concerned about permanent burn-in (OLED) considering that i might want to keep the screen "ON" all the time during daily usage.

As for me spending $3K to buy one of these i would never do so until i read professional reviews from reliable sources.

I find it rather odd that under "specifications" in the owner's manual there is no mention of what type of screen is used, be it LCD or OLED.

That was the reason I asked the innocent question I did. You seem to know more about the differences between the OLED vs LED than I do, so I am just confirming that you seemed concerned about the type of screen on the touch panel. Through context, I am thinking that you believe that if the screen is OLED in design, it could have a "Burn in" problem if the screen has an image that is left on the screen for too long. Is that really a "Thing", still, after all of the advancements done in the field of touchscreen technology? I truly don't know. But if it were a real concern, it should be addressed and revealed by the designers as such.
bootster is offline  
post #51 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 03:18 PM
Member
 
pixelknave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
I find it rather odd that under "specifications" in the owner's manual there is no mention of what type of screen is used, be it LCD or OLED.
It's on the data sheet (I've edited my post above). It's a TFT LCD display.
pixelknave is offline  
post #52 of 506 Old 03-01-2020, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,436
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4392 Post(s)
Liked: 2550
I just heard a bridged c268 w/nad dac/streamer and was really impressed. hope new avr is impressive.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20200228_124020.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	578.1 KB
ID:	2692138  

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
torii is online now  
post #53 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 05:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelknave View Post
It's on the data sheet (I've edited my post above). It's a TFT LCD display.

No mention of toroidal transformer. Perhaps the new amplifiers don't take advantage of the design enough to warrant it's inclusion? One of the things that the NAD literature seemed to be proudest of is their Holmgren toroidal transformers in their more premium products. It would be a shame if NAD went on a cost saving/profit intensive mission in the future.


These amplifiers are supposed to be cause for excitement, being as they are a lot more efficient and supposedly have a better sound signature, but the current trend of any company these days is to satisfy their pocketbooks. In the new age of disinformation running rampant wherever we go now, who's to make the call here as to what to believe? I, for one, remain skeptical as to the corporate motives of most, if not all big corporations. From Lenbrook's home page, "Lenbrook is its dedicated and experienced business teams all committed to excellence and leadership in the markets we serve." "The markets we serve" being the key here. That sounds more like the investors are the main focus of the Lenbrook company.


I didn't want to stray too far off topic here, but almost all companies have came to the conclusion that focusing on profits is the rule of the day. I'm not accusing NAD of taking their eye off the ball yet, but to completely make a new component that clearly uses less materials, and removes the main focus of the power center of their more premium line of components, leaves me a bit suspect as to what the end game here is. To have an increase in the cost of a brand new design is suspect, when the component looks to be a less costly design on it's face. Investors love it when the manufacturing costs go down, yet the prices remain level, or actually increase in price as they do here. Keeping the measurements looking good, while scaling down the manufacturing costs is the goal of any successful company. It looks like only time will tell what this new design will render to the masses, as far as pride of ownership is concerned.
bootster is offline  
post #54 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
No mention of toroidal transformer. Perhaps the new amplifiers don't take advantage of the design enough to warrant it's inclusion? One of the things that the NAD literature seemed to be proudest of is their Holmgren toroidal transformers in their more premium products. It would be a shame if NAD went on a cost saving/profit intensive mission in the future.


These amplifiers are supposed to be cause for excitement, being as they are a lot more efficient and supposedly have a better sound signature, but the current trend of any company these days is to satisfy their pocketbooks. In the new age of disinformation running rampant wherever we go now, who's to make the call here as to what to believe? I, for one, remain skeptical as to the corporate motives of most, if not all big corporations. From Lenbrook's home page, "Lenbrook is its dedicated and experienced business teams all committed to excellence and leadership in the markets we serve." "The markets we serve" being the key here. That sounds more like the investors are the main focus of the Lenbrook company.


I didn't want to stray too far off topic here, but almost all companies have came to the conclusion that focusing on profits is the rule of the day. I'm not accusing NAD of taking their eye off the ball yet, but to completely make a new component that clearly uses less materials, and removes the main focus of the power center of their more premium line of components, leaves me a bit suspect as to what the end game here is. To have an increase in the cost of a brand new design is suspect, when the component looks to be a less costly design on it's face. Investors love it when the manufacturing costs go down, yet the prices remain level, or actually increase in price as they do here. Keeping the measurements looking good, while scaling down the manufacturing costs is the goal of any successful company. It looks like only time will tell what this new design will render to the masses, as far as pride of ownership is concerned.

I don't know how/if it is beneficial with these amps. Looking at the hypex website, the switch mode power supplies designed to couple with their NCores are modest in size/weight. I couldn't find anything in NAD's marketing for their Master's Series amps touting the Holmgren transformer. I think that may go back to earlier generations of their amps. What I do know is the Ncore technology that is in their Master's series evidently tests very well (superior to their older designs). I think this particular issue is a matter of advancement in amplifier tech more than cutting corners (but, I don't really know what I'm talking about--I know enough to know that the hypex amps are testing incredibly well).
HTNUT1975 is online now  
post #55 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 06:54 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
I don't know how/if it is beneficial with these amps. Looking at the hypex website, the switch mode power supplies designed to couple with their NCores are modest in size/weight. I couldn't find anything in NAD's marketing for their Master's Series amps touting the Holmgren transformer. I think that may go back to earlier generations of their amps. What I do know is the Ncore technology that is in their Master's series evidently tests very well (superior to their older designs). I think this particular issue is a matter of advancement in amplifier tech more than cutting corners (but, I don't really know what I'm talking about--I know enough to know that the hypex amps are testing incredibly well).

That may very well be true, but I fail to see the cost increase due to these new manufacturing technologies, unless they are trying to recoup the R&D of this new technology, and make a sizable profit at the same time. I will admit as you do, that "I don't really know what I'm talking about". I do know that I am stating facts here, concerning pricing. We know that no matter what happens, the prices of "New" components/technology will never go down. The consumers just got done absorbing a double whammy here. Once with the increase of the prices across the board of $300 for the T 758 v3 and the T777 v3, and then we get the MSRP of $200 more than that to the final $2,999 we have with the introduction of the T778. In less than one year's time, the price incurred purchasing the top of the line AVR went up $500 total. From a MSRP of $2,499 to $2,999 in less than one year seems to be an increase of 20%. That's not chump change when you consider that some mid grade AVR's cost that much.


When someone says that their AVR budget is $500, I can just relate with the fact that the cost of owning NAD's flagship AVR has increased that same amount in just one years time. I guess I should feel lucky to have purchased my T777 v3 before the initial price increase, and at a refurbished price that saved me $700 over the MSRP at that time of $2,499. I don't want to harp on this too much, but I feel it should be at least noticed by people interested in what's happening with NAD's pricing structure. I paid $1,799 for a refurbished flagship (not including the T787) product that is now $2,999. There's no way that I could justify three grand for an AVR, but that's probably just me.


I guess time will tell how good this new technology proves itself to be. One of the problems is that once you start talking about flagship components, the price curve has already leveled off to the point where you could never realize a 20% performance increase just because the price has increased 20%. It's tough enough to compare the measurements between the top name brands without just centering your attention on cost alone.
nakkiran likes this.
bootster is offline  
post #56 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
That may very well be true, but I fail to see the cost increase due to these new manufacturing technologies, unless they are trying to recoup the R&D of this new technology, and make a sizable profit at the same time. I will admit as you do, that "I don't really know what I'm talking about". I do know that I am stating facts here, concerning pricing. We know that no matter what happens, the prices of "New" components/technology will never go down. The consumers just got done absorbing a double whammy here. Once with the increase of the prices across the board of $300 for the T 758 v3 and the T777 v3, and then we get the MSRP of $200 more than that to the final $2,999 we have with the introduction of the T778. In less than one year's time, the price incurred purchasing the top of the line AVR went up $500 total. From a MSRP of $2,499 to $2,999 in less than one year seems to be an increase of 20%. That's not chump change when you consider that some mid grade AVR's cost that much.


When someone says that their AVR budget is $500, I can just relate with the fact that the cost of owning NAD's flagship AVR has increased that same amount in just one years time. I guess I should feel lucky to have purchased my T777 v3 before the initial price increase, and at a refurbished price that saved me $700 over the MSRP at that time of $2,499. I don't want to harp on this too much, but I feel it should be at least noticed by people interested in what's happening with NAD's pricing structure. I paid $1,799 for a refurbished flagship (not including the T787) product that is now $2,999. There's no way that I could justify three grand for an AVR, but that's probably just me.


I guess time will tell how good this new technology proves itself to be. One of the problems is that once you start talking about flagship components, the price curve has already leveled off to the point where you could never realize a 20% performance increase just because the price has increased 20%. It's tough enough to compare the measurements between the top name brands without just centering your attention on cost alone.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I think there a couple of things to consider. First, when comparing the price of the refurbished model to a new one, it is easy to see a large discrepancy--that's the case with any product on the market (see, for example, the MSRP cost of a $500 refurb from Denon from Accessories4Less). Second, not all dealers charge full MSRP. Because of the website policy, we can't really get into pricing discussion, but that is a factor to take into consideration. Because this is the flagship, I expect it to have all the capabilities of Dirac, and so I'm expecting discrete sub-outs and the capability of operating all the tiers of Dirac bass management. If they don't have that, then I won't be purchasing it.



There's also something to be said with having better performing amplifiers (or, so it seems--we won't know until tests are done by third parties), and, two additional amplifiers (so we're getting 9 channels instead of 7). But I digress. Assuming this actually does have the capability to render all the tiers of Dirac's bass management, it'll be the cheapest AVR on the market to have that capability ( think the next closest may be the Arcam AVR20, which retails at $4,000).
tebling likes this.
HTNUT1975 is online now  
post #57 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 62
I agree that the additional two amplifiers count for something, but not enough to edit my post. My pricing discussion is just based on relativity, my point being that these issues about the differences in MSRP being the cost of another brands mid level unit is applicable, and without direct numbers, it is a useless discussion to make.



So pricing aside, my point is still valid, that the way this increase in the cost of this newest AVR has me a bit startled. I am not trying to advocate one way or another for NAD with what I posted about the figures, being the way they are, it just has to be known what those figures are to make the point about the percentage increase and my questioning their structure. Just as you have compared the cost of the lowest priced Dirac accompanied component, it only makes sense to include these figures for trying to explain my side of the story here. There is a huge argument for purchasing the T758 v3 due to it's Dirac accompaniment, so it's fitting that we have some baselines as to what goes in where as far as the tier of the NAD components.



I am still trying to figure out where the company is going with this new structure of having the flagship AVR in at three grand, while the next offering, at less than half that number, comes with Dirac, making even a stronger case for the purchasers of the T758 v3. Without a baseline, the argument falls on it's face. I have never seen any official NAD dealer offer these components for anything less than full retail MSRP, other than refurbs, and the substantial savings enters into the discussion because it's sort of unique among most brands with the substantial savings incurred. Again, part of the discussion hinges on where these components can be bought in the scheme of things. I just read a thread where a refurb saved a single Benjamin. We are talking about seven of them here!



All this is relative to what's going on at NAD with this new unit in their lineup. It's a new lineup, with a very big differences between them, making an argument as to why they have gotten us so far out of touch with what was once, just a year ago, not that far off as it seems now. Other brands are getting better reviews due to the addition to the huge number of added bells and whistles they have on their flagship components that NAD just plain lacks. I would suggest for a good reason, however. Most reviewers simply knock NAD down for not having so many "Gimmicks" included in their more pricier components. I hope that NAD continues to offer the simplicity of the sound first oriented technology, rather than packing the rear of the components with a ton of connections most people would never use.
bootster is offline  
post #58 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 10:20 AM
Senior Member
 
tebling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
I have never seen any official NAD dealer offer these components for anything less than full retail MSRP, other than refurbs
For now you can pre-order the T778 at a substantial discount from MSRP through official NAD dealers (well, at least one and I mentioned this earlier in the thread). Percentage wise I'm not paying much of a premium over what I paid for my T777v3.

Everyone has their own budget as well as their own priorities for features, etc. For me personally the T778 is an incremental improvement over the previous model on the axes I care about (excluding sonic character which hasn't been evaluated yet, but I have no reason to question), and especially with the pre-order pricing the upgrade makes sense for me.

If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it.
tebling is offline  
post #59 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 10:24 AM
Senior Member
 
tebling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 320
Also, it's a minor change but as of today the official T778 page no longer says "coming soon"
HTNUT1975 likes this.
tebling is offline  
post #60 of 506 Old 03-02-2020, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HTNUT1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nashville
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootster View Post
All this is relative to what's going on at NAD with this new unit in their lineup. It's a new lineup, with a very big differences between them, making an argument as to why they have gotten us so far out of touch with what was once, just a year ago, not that far off as it seems now. Other brands are getting better reviews due to the addition to the huge number of added bells and whistles they have on their flagship components that NAD just plain lacks. I would suggest for a good reason, however. Most reviewers simply knock NAD down for not having so many "Gimmicks" included in their more pricier components. I hope that NAD continues to offer the simplicity of the sound first oriented technology, rather than packing the rear of the components with a ton of connections most people would never use.



I don't quite understand what you mean when you say that just a year ago it was "not that far off as it seems now." Are you referring to price? A year ago, the T 777 v3 got you seven powered channels with inferior amplification technology (I'm assuming...) and will be what is inferior bass management capability (again, I'm assuming) for I think $2598. I know the MSRP started out at 2499, but I think it jumped a little in the last year or so because of component costs and trade. Please know I'm asking these questions more out of curiosity--not to be argumentative! I guess I believe this is a really good price for what we're getting (given certain very crucial assumptions I'm making...).
HTNUT1975 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off