The Official NAD T 778 Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 11:50 AM
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I could start off with something like, "I'm sure glad that NAD finally got their act together, and got rid of those crappy, inferior amplifiers they were using before, but that would seem argumentative. .


Not to be argumentative or anything here, but I find it hard to get my head around a theory that someone would offer that a previous model of a flagship component would have "Inferior amplification technology", and "Inferior bass management capability" only because of a (assumed) upgrade on both the amplification stages and a upgraded (assumed) version of Dirac room correction software. This amplifier technology has been perfected upon for years, and still demands a premium price tag. The Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, etc, brands don't seem to be towering over the NAD series of AVR's, so I'll take that with a grain of salt.


Dirac is over rated in my view, perhaps due to the lack of room correction needed in my particular instance, but I seem to be the minority here. I need a hands on instance where I can take a room with horrible acoustics, and press a button, to have it miraculously be transformed into a magnanimous listening experience. I've heard great things about the software, but that was the old, "Inferior" version. Of course I'm being facetious, and just joking with you HTNUT1975 here.


There are a number of posters on the T758 v3 forum who are claiming that their sole reason to purchase that particular unit, is because it offers a version of Dirac, without breaking the bank. If they are updating/upgrading it in the T778, then that's all the better for all persons who are interested.



I don't know if this new amplifier technology is what it's cracked up top be or not, but I do agree that it sounds like a step in the right direction. I have seen the reviews on the Masters series that employ this amplifier technology, and while it may be an improvement, it's certainly not worthy of discounting the superb technology deployed in previous NAD award winning AVR's. I would think that the R&D has been paid for somewhat by the number of components that have already been put out by NAD in their Master series, so there's that. I would love to get to audition these components for myself. I need to get off my butt and take a trip to Gramophone, or some other dealer I guess. I still see some owners of the NAD "Silver Series" claiming that that era was the pinnacle of NAD's audio component expertise. I've never auditioned any of those components, but would love to someday.



I guess the "Issue" of the LED vs OLED technology has been solved. I guess the LED choice was a better one than OLED, but I'm still investigating that to see if NAD made the better choice in that instance.
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post #62 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 12:20 PM
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Seeing as you're a good sport HTNUT1975, and since I didn't research enough to see if you are a current owner of the NAD T777 v3, I see that there's one on here that's just been listed. It still has the advertisement stickers on the top of it!


It seems like one heck of a good buy if anyone else is interested in a really nice AVR.
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post #63 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 12:40 PM
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It seems like one heck of a good buy if anyone else is interested in a really nice AVR.
Not to go too off topic, but my 777v3 will also be up for sale at a similar price after I receive the 778
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post #64 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bootster View Post
Seeing as you're a good sport HTNUT1975, and since I didn't research enough to see if you are a current owner of the NAD T777 v3, I see that there's one on here that's just been listed. It still has the advertisement stickers on the top of it!


It seems like one heck of a good buy if anyone else is interested in a really nice AVR.
I had seriously considered this model last year, but I decided to hold off because of the new Dirac modules being released. That’s the primary reason I’ve been waiting a while. But yeah, definitely a good valued no doubt!
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post #65 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 01:19 PM
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I had seriously considered this model last year, but I decided to hold off because of the new Dirac modules being released. That’s the primary reason I’ve been waiting a while. But yeah, definitely a good valued no doubt!

You are saying that the Dirac update is not just a software related update, and it's reliant on a piece of hardware in order to be updated? I can't seem to find it anywhere online. If you can direct us to that source, that would be great.
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post #66 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 01:20 PM
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Not to go too off topic, but my 777v3 will also be up for sale at a similar price after I receive the 778

I'm quoting you here, in a response to one of my posts. "If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it."


When I said, and I quote, "There's no way that I could justify three grand for an AVR, but that's probably just me.", I meant what I said.


Just because someone says they can't "Afford" something, doesn't have anything to do at all with whether it's too expensive for them, or not. I can't afford to waste money, therefore I'm not getting roped into something I'd feel wasn't a wise purchase for me. To each his own, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


I appreciate a great product, but I'm frugal with my spending. It's a personal opinion to someone if they want to purchase something they believe to out of line pricing wise, or not. I'll have to wait and see how this new unit fares before going "All in". Kudos to you for being able to save some money by pre-ordering. I have yet to see any reputable vendor price the T777 v3 at anything below retail, other than demos or scratch and dent type sales. Flagship NAD branded products are rarely, meaning more often than not, are not found at less than MSRP prices, and I have done a lot of research on it.



Perhaps you can be the poster who can give us all an honest review of the T778. All the more power to you, and I wish you the best of luck.
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post #67 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 01:24 PM
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The touchscreen on the unit itself is sort of a gimmick, as no one will be getting up to fiddle with the touchscreen every time they want to change something. I wonder if the remote is a duplicate of the touchscreen on the front of the unit itself? Perhaps an app to navigate the menu from a phone or laptop/tablet?
The touchscreen is a welcome addition for BlueOS users. In my household at least.

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The worst thing NAD did, as far as I'm concerned, is to get rid of the jumpers that went from the pre out to the main in, and get rid of the option to use the power amplifier stages in an AVR as standalone power amplifier units, so to speak. In a different note, I got the word from NAD technicians that the bi amp channeling of these AVR's are limited to the front channels only, and I can't bi amp the rear speakers using the built in amplifiers on the AVR. To be a bit clearer, I can only use speakers with crossovers that allow bi amping as front, but not rear speakers. I have just upgraded the crossovers of my rear speakers, and now have found out that I cannot use the built in amplifiers through the menu to bi amp them. Only the fronts can be bi amped through the menu. I have to use separate outboard power amplifiers to power the high and low frequencies of the rear channel speakers in a surround sound setup. My hope was that the T 778 would have assignable amps that would allow me to bi amp the rear speakers thorough the menu, allowing the low frequencies to be powered by two channels (R and L) and the high frequencies to be powered by two others.
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No mention of toroidal transformer. Perhaps the new amplifiers don't take advantage of the design enough to warrant it's inclusion? One of the things that the NAD literature seemed to be proudest of is their Holmgren toroidal transformers in their more premium products. It would be a shame if NAD went on a cost saving/profit intensive mission in the future.
I believe your misgivings are more due to perceptions than reality. Today, a well designed SMPS will usually outperform a linear supply. It's just been accepted and perpetuated that toroid = good and SMPS = bad. Toroids do have an advantage in durability (most should outlive us). But there is no reason a SMPS can't be highly durable.

Passive bi-amping in most cases provides no benefit, especially with modern class D amplification and especially in an AVR in which all amplifier channels share a single power supply.

https://nadelectronics.com/wp-conten...WhitePaper.pdf
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post #68 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 01:28 PM
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Flagship NAD branded products are rarely, meaning more often than not, are not found at less than MSRP prices, and I have done a lot of research on it.
I'm sorry, but this simply is not true. Researching via Google will only turn up list pricing. If you need some dealer referral, you can send me or others PM.
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post #69 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 01:48 PM
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The touchscreen is a welcome addition for BlueOS users. In my household at least.



I believe your misgivings are more due to perceptions than reality. Today, a well designed SMPS will usually outperform a linear supply. It's just been accepted and perpetuated that toroid = good and SMPS = bad. Toroids do have an advantage in durability (most should outlive us). But there is no reason a SMPS can't be highly durable.

Passive bi-amping in most cases provides no benefit, especially with modern class D amplification and especially in an AVR in which all amplifier channels share a single power supply.

https://nadelectronics.com/wp-conten...WhitePaper.pdf
Thanks for that explanation. I was asking, because I had stated that I didn't know why they had gotten away from that particular transformer. That makes sense. I figured that it had to do with the class D amplifier implementation.



Why do you say that the touchscreen on the unit itself is a benefit to you? I'm just curious as to why the all to often kudos to the implementation of the wireless remote control would be welcomed in reverse? My question is whether NAD will offer a touchscreen remote control that mimics the one on the unit itself, so you don't have to get up and change the channel physically. I remember having to turn the dial on the VHF or UHF tuner on the black and white televisions (before color TV was invented) being the hardest thing. Not only did you have to turn that funky dial on the set itself to "UHF", you also had to turn the other dial to the UHF channel, like 22, or 45, or 67, and then adjust the rabbit ears, or tune the giant rooftop antennae control to the predetermined spot on the dial that made the station come into view slowly. Sometimes it would take a couple of minutes to get to a station.


I thought the wireless remote control was the best thing since sliced bread. Then I found out that my college professor who taught my "Electric Transformers and Generators" class at Old Dominion University started and now owns the HVAC retail outlet "R.E. Michael Co" to discover that I am truly getting old.
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post #70 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 03:46 PM
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What I would like to know is are they really using Hypex class D (haven't seen any mention of Hypex in the press for this receiver, but I could have missed it) in this unit or some other class D design. I'd love to see what the reviewers have to say about this once someone pulls out a screwdriver and see what is under the hood.
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post #71 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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What I would like to know is are they really using Hypex class D (haven't seen any mention of Hypex in the press for this receiver, but I could have missed it) in this unit or some other class D design. I'd love to see what the reviewers have to say about this once someone pulls out a screwdriver and see what is under the hood.

I can't swear by it, but I know the marketing language they've used with the M27 ("hybrid digital"), used similar language, and they were NC400's. I wish there were a NAD guru who frequented the boards (I mean someone who represented NAD, like other companies have). He/she could answer some of these more nuanced questions.
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post #72 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 04:37 PM
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Why do you say that the touchscreen on the unit itself is a benefit to you? I'm just curious as to why the all to often kudos to the implementation of the wireless remote control would be welcomed in reverse? My question is whether NAD will offer a touchscreen remote control that mimics the one on the unit itself, so you don't have to get up and change the channel physically.
It already does. Your mobile device is the touchscreen remote: http://bluos.net/

Having the touchscreen on the unit in addition to the BlueOS app adds convenience and refinement of the listening experience. If you are not a music listener/streamer, then it is of no consequence.
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post #73 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 04:53 PM
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That's what I thought. but I didn't connect the remote to BluOS. That makes sense and connects the dots.
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Has there been any mention of what DAC this will use? Does NAD tend to use a particular chip in their products (ESS, AKM, etc.)?
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post #75 of 501 Old 03-02-2020, 06:58 PM
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Has there been any mention of what DAC this will use? Does NAD tend to use a particular chip in their products (ESS, AKM, etc.)?
"DirectDigital DAC- ESS Saber DAC with MQA Decoding MQA decoding available on all digital inputs"

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Does NAD tend to use a particular chip in their products (ESS, AKM, etc.)?
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post #77 of 501 Old 03-03-2020, 07:52 AM
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spotted on another forum: https://www.avforums.com/threads/new.../post-27819365

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So here goes on my initial thoughts. So far I have only had a couple of days with it but I’ve learned a lot about the unit. The NAD replaced a Denon 6500 I’d had for about 6 months and after a bit of wrestling with Audyssey was getting a fairly decent sound out of the Denon. It was always a stop gap as at the time, I hadn’t realised I was going to leave The Movie Rooms so it actually stayed longer than expected. Other than the frustrating Audyssey set-up, the Denon got extremely hot in my rack, so much so that I had to employ the services of a USB fan to help cool it. I suspect this was due to the fact I was running a lot of 4ohm speakers off it, so it was working quite hard and add into that the fronts were low down to 40hz. The only other major issue I had was that the Xbox One X didn’t play nice with the Denon at all, it refused point blank to work in 4K with the Denon in enhanced HDMI mode, so eventually I had to use a HD Fury Dr HDMI to spoof it into 4K.

So other than a lift in sound from putting in the NAD, I was also hoping to combat these other niggly issues in one fell swoop. Knowing the fussiness of a lot of modern AVR’s I didn’t hold out a lot of hope of squashing all these issues with a box fresh brand-new unit, but I was hopeful.

The first thing you notice when you open the unit is how compact it is, it had a smaller footprint than the Denon which it replaced, and it was much smaller than the Arcam AVR850 I had before that. The accessories all feel very well made. The remote is heavy and has nice bright backlit buttons on the whole front facia. You get the Blue Sound USB adaptor in the box to enable the NAD as a Blusound Zone, plus the usual leads and cables. You do get a basic DIRAC Microphone in the box but already owning an XTZ & Earthworks microphones I pretty much ignored it. It looks like a similar puck style one to the old original Arcam but made from aluminium. It also comes with rack ears included in the box as standard.

The amplifier is 9 channels but only the surround back channels can be re-assigned. They can be Surround Back, Front Height or Bi-Amp (front). For reference, I run 11 channels at home plus one big ported 15” subwoofer. Interestingly you can run an enhanced bass setting in the menu like on the Denon/Marantz, which sends low frequency to a large set of fronts along with the sub, which is useful if you have a big room and only one woofer.

The unit itself has a full touchscreen which is responsive and easy to use, along with and on-screen set-up display which mirrors the display exactly. The unit looks like it doesn’t have any video overlay, so no live volume on the screen or ability to check the codec deployed. Although the detailed video information and audio codecs are visible on the front of the unit if you need to see what is coming in and going out. I did try to get the NAD remote app to work, but it didn’t work instantly so I didn’t pursue this as it want massively important to me. I do intend to try to get this to work. One small niggle is that when you are in the menu, you don’t press enter to access the menus, you press the right jog wheel. This took a bit of getting used to and initially caused me to change the remote IR code by accident. This wasn’t a major problem though as the touch screen came and saved the day, quickly reverting it back on the front of the unit.

Once I had it all plumbed in, I went straight to the update screen and updated the unit. This was a very easy process, it did an online search and updated both the unit and the Blusound zone with the newest firmware. Initially I set the unit up manually with an SPL and a laser measure. This was just to get an initial listen to what the raw sound was doing. This tends to help me as it lets me know what I need to do with DIRAC later in the process to tame or improve certain areas. I have to say the sound straight off the bat was very, very good. What you would expect from efficient digital amplification, fast, very clean with bags of detail and most importantly, not harsh. Exactly what I like. Over the weekend I watched a full film, 8 Days of Night and also the Carabao Cup Final On Sky, along with a bunch of my usual clips such as Blade Runner, Casino Royal and Edge of Tomorrow. The cleanliness of the sound is what is so immediate, and this really helps place specific sounds in the room and also seems to help the transition of the sounds from each speaker. The dialogue was crisp and very clear, this is where I feel the benefits of the digital amplification can be really heard. A lot of amplifiers muddy this, and I did find when I owned the Arcam I needed to split out the centre in DIRAC to give it special attention in the EQ. I didn’t feel the need to do this with the NAD. This overall clarity gives a fantastic base for the deployment of DIRAC, as you can really hear what is going on. Later, on Sunday night I completed the DIRAC set-up. It connected first time on the network and was the usual process with version 2 that I’m used to with the Storm and the Arcam. I did find the test tones violently loud. This almost turned into some sort of stress test of all my speakers. If this is the normal volume for the tolerance of DIRAC on the 778, I would recommend you go out of the room or wear some ear protection for the initial capture. With DIRAC engaged I was able to give the midrange and bass a little more warmth, but overall didn’t need to make as many changes as I had probably done in the past, which again is a great sign. Generally, if you can have a light touch with the EQ you do get the best results I find.

I have a lot of sources plugged into the 778 and the HDMI was rock solid, it didn’t stutter once. BT Ultimate, Now TV, NVIDIA Shield, Xbox One X, JVC Tape Deck & Sony Minidisk all worked flawlessly, every time. The only small niggle was that when I changed inputs on the HDMI there is a very quiet “pop” through the speakers, something I’ve fed back to NAD to see if it can be rectified. One bonus was at turn on; the NAD seems to immediately accept IR commands even when it isn’t fully powered up with the front screen display. This meant the Harmony remote I programmed also worked every time with input changes unlike the Arcam which I had in the past. It needed delays introducing to hit the power on, input change time. One side note is that the 778 wasn’t in the Harmony database but I just used the codes for a 777 and it worked perfectly. Switching inputs and the general speed of the unit in response to commands was excellent.

The other last major part is the Blusound dongle module, again this worked perfectly. So much so the Sonos Connect went on eBay the same day.

Overall, I think it is the best integrated I’ve owned, and one of the best I’ve heard for quite some time. The fact it all works from the off is brilliant and given the competitors struggles to get a glitch free unit, NAD should be commended. It also runs pretty cool and being modular will likely get HDMI upgrades easily and potentially the DIRAC Bass Module upgrade (TBC).

To be honest, there is very little wrong with it in my eyes and I can’t wait to keep using it.

TV: LG OLED 55C7
Player: Oppo UDP-203
AVR: Cambridge Audio CXR200
Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 towers (bi-amped), PSB Image C5 centre, Monitor Audio Bronze FX surrounds (bipole), SVS PB-1000 sub
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post #78 of 501 Old 03-03-2020, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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@nakkiran what an encouraging review. I anticipated paragraphs with a slew of problems enumerated. It sounds like NAD has been at work on this, making use of their other tech (like found in the M10) to ensure a smoother rollout than other companies.

Last edited by HTNUT1975; 03-03-2020 at 08:28 AM.
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post #79 of 501 Old 03-03-2020, 11:11 AM
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I anticipated paragraphs with a slew of problems enumerated. It sounds like NAD has been at work on this, making use of their other tech (like found in the M10) to ensure a smoother rollout than other companies.
What is your point of reference for comparison? I'm guessing Arcam and not the Japanese brands. Arcam is utilizing an entirely new platform compared to its previous generation. NAD is not.
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post #80 of 501 Old 03-03-2020, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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What is your point of reference for comparison? I'm guessing Arcam and not the Japanese brands. Arcam is utilizing an entirely new platform compared to its previous generation. NAD is not.
Really, all of them but the Denon/Marantz. From following the NAD T 758 thread some time ago, Emotiva, and the earlier Arcam threads since the AV 850 (I think?), I anticipated plenty of bugs to be ironed out with the 778. I understood the 778 to be based on a new platform based on comments made in an interview some time ago. I think the m10 had some issues as well, but it has been a while since I looked it up. Though, I guess I don’t know exactly what “new platform” means when I say that. This is probably something I should know more about (and am genuinely interested to know).
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Just got a courtesy call from Safe and Sound letting me know that my T778 has shipped!

I'll update when I have tracking info and an ETA. I believe they ship UPS ground, so I'm guessing Tues or Wed next week.
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I don't like that it doesn't have video overlay for volume etc... Its freaking 2020 and I can't see my volume on screen
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post #83 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got a courtesy call from Safe and Sound letting me know that my T778 has shipped!

I'll update when I have tracking info and an ETA. I believe they ship UPS ground, so I'm guessing Tues or Wed next week.
I’m looking forward to finding out if you can tell whether the subwoofer outs are discrete.
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post #84 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 08:07 AM
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I’m looking forward to finding out if you can tell whether the subwoofer outs are discrete.
Do we now know if Dirac Bass Management is planned for this unit yet? Those outputs being discrete or not will answer that I guess...
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Originally Posted by ray-finkle View Post
Do we now know if Dirac Bass Management is planned for this unit yet? Those outputs being discrete or not will answer that I guess...
Therein lies the mystery! Though, it seems that at least one of the tiers could work theoretically, even if they aren’t discrete. My hope is that the “flagship” would offer the opportunity for all tiers out of the gate, from a hardware standpoint. I could be wrong. Perhaps they won’t offer all tiers until a later hardware upgrade (with a module upgrade or an additional module—there are expansion slots, after all).
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post #86 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gtoboss View Post
I don't like that it doesn't have video overlay for volume etc... Its freaking 2020 and I can't see my volume on screen
I agree that having it as an option would be good. When I went from a Denon to the NAD 777v3 I thought I'd really miss the volume overlay, but was surprised how little of an issue it was in practice. Most of the time I now adjust volume based on what my ears are telling me rather than relying on numbers. If I need to see the numbers I can glance at the front panel or use an app.

It's also nice to covertly raise the volume slowly through a movie without family members being any wiser
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post #87 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 08:46 AM
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This product has me very intrigued but I have a few questions...

1) Do you think this would be an upgrade over an Anthem AVM60?
2) I see speaker terminals for 11 channels, can I just use internal amps for all surround channels and use my ATI AT543NC amp for front three channels? (I’m just using cheap Emotiva amps for surrounds)
3) I don’t know much about BluOS but I currently run Roon for music. Do they integrate at all?
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post #88 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 08:54 AM
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Correction, only see 9 terminals... It would be a darn shame if you can’t assign amps...
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post #89 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ccondo1 View Post
This product has me very intrigued but I have a few questions...
1) No idea
2) No reason you can't use your external amp for LCR. The pre-outs are active all the time AFAIK. As for assigning amps, see page 18 of the manual. Only the surround back channels are re-assignable (to Front for bi-amping or Height 2).
3) Yes, Roon is well integrated with BluOS. I use Roon regularly on my T777v3.

T778 manual: https://nadelectronics.com/wp-conten...T778-OM-EN.pdf
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post #90 of 501 Old 03-04-2020, 10:06 AM
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So I can’t use the front amps to power height 2 and leave surround back alone for a 7.2.4 system...? That’s my interpretation and it’s too bad. Could have replaced 3-4 boxes with one.
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