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post #1 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 02:17 AM - Thread Starter
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need help choosing a new receiver

hey.

right now i have 5 speakers, SONY SS-RXD7S for the back surround.

and front are floor speakers

250W RMS

8 ohm

39hz 22000h

91dB.

my old receiver: kenwood krf-v5050d.
now i have: pioneer-vsx534.

i have talked with the seller and he told me that the vsx will be enough but my old kenwood sound better.
the bass is "boomy" and t highest are "scream"


i have done room calibrations 3 times and still the sound dont feel right.


need help to understand why my old one sound better.

have 5 speakers SONY SS-RXD7S for the back surround.

i have ask people in the internet and they told me that the denon x3600h will be good like the kenwood, can you help me understand it?

thank you, sorry for m bad english.
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post #2 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
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...

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post #3 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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someone ?
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post #4 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 11:50 AM
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you got plenty of responses in the reddit forum maybe delete this post?
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post #5 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
you got plenty of responses in the reddit forum maybe delete this post?
no i dont want to delete this post, i wanna post again.
if dont want to help just dont.
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post #6 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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no one in the world dont know what is the problem between 20yrs old receiver that sound better and a new receiver ?
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post #7 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by heyworld2020 View Post
no one in the world dont know what is the problem between 20yrs old receiver that sound better and a new receiver ?
nope...
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post #8 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 02:24 PM
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Get the Denon and be done with all this nonsense.
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post #9 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Get the Denon and be done with all this nonsense.
bro how is that nonsense if i dont know **** about hometheater and i dont want to spend more money for something that maybe going to be the same ?? no one in the internet told that if speakers of 250watts RMS will work with denon 105W 2CH, good with no THD. thats all.
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post #10 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by heyworld2020 View Post
bro how is that nonsense if i dont know **** about hometheater and i dont want to spend more money for something that maybe going to be the same ?? No one in the internet told that if speakers of 250watts rms will work with denon 105w 2ch, good with no thd. Thats all.
ok. The Denon that was recommended to you will do just fine in your setup compared to a 20+ year old Kenwood that is worth about $20.

Last edited by MRAYB; 02-26-2020 at 03:09 PM.
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post #11 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 05:41 PM
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I recently upgraded to a Denon 3600h. Awesome receiver. If you don't want the 9.1 channels of amp and 11.1 channels of processing find a 3500h which should be less $.
I tried them both and ended up with the 3600 because I wanted more channels.
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post #12 of 22 Old 02-26-2020, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyworld2020 View Post
bro how is that nonsense if i dont know **** about hometheater and i dont want to spend more money for something that maybe going to be the same ?? no one in the internet told that if speakers of 250watts RMS will work with denon 105W 2CH, good with no THD. thats all.
So first, this is a bit sideways from your question but here are
Here are "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection":
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
NOTE: the size and power ratings of the speakers and amp do not affect rules 1 and 2. (Specs for amps are often not thorough since they are measured into resistors and speakers are not resistors. Speaker specifications are 92% meaningless (and I say that as a loudspeaker engineer)).
So forget about speaker power ratings, they are crap.
- As for receivers, they all have the same output power within a couple decibels (that is like one tiny bump of the volume knob).
- Even if your speakers are 8 ohms, look at FOUR OHM power ratings as a better indicator of how much power an amp will have into real speakers.
- If you TURN OFF room correction on your new amp, how does it sound compared to the old one?
- And dumb question, were the bass and treble FLAT on the old amp? Was loudness OFF? (Are you sure?)
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post #13 of 22 Old 02-27-2020, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
So first, this is a bit sideways from your question but here are
Here are "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection":
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
NOTE: the size and power ratings of the speakers and amp do not affect rules 1 and 2. (Specs for amps are often not thorough since they are measured into resistors and speakers are not resistors. Speaker specifications are 92% meaningless (and I say that as a loudspeaker engineer)).
So forget about speaker power ratings, they are crap.
- As for receivers, they all have the same output power within a couple decibels (that is like one tiny bump of the volume knob).
- Even if your speakers are 8 ohms, look at FOUR OHM power ratings as a better indicator of how much power an amp will have into real speakers.
- If you TURN OFF room correction on your new amp, how does it sound compared to the old one?
- And dumb question, were the bass and treble FLAT on the old amp? Was loudness OFF? (Are you sure?)
thank you,
If you TURN OFF room correction on your new amp, how does it sound compared to the old one?
i have try "pure direct" and it sound the same "bommy" bass.
And dumb question, were the bass and treble FLAT on the old amp? Was loudness OFF? (Are you sure?)[/QUOTE]
on my old amp there is no room correction and it was on direct, sound better.

i'm really dont now nothing about hometheater and right now i have amp that output 80W 2CH and its sound bad.

Last edited by heyworld2020; 02-27-2020 at 12:52 AM.
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post #14 of 22 Old 02-27-2020, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyworld2020 View Post
thank you,
If you TURN OFF room correction on your new amp, how does it sound compared to the old one?
i have try "pure direct" and it sound the same "bommy" bass.
And dumb question, were the bass and treble FLAT on the old amp? Was loudness OFF? (Are you sure?)
on my old amp there is no room correction and it was on direct, sound better.

i'm really dont now nothing about hometheater and right now i have amp that output 80W 2CH and its sound bad.[/QUOTE]

Here's a little something to confuse the situation, then some clarity.

But first, the reasons your old amp may sound better to you. Older tech was meant to play to the middle of the road, so there may be a fuller sound at default settings, but when tweaked properly, the new system could sound better. OR
You're just used to the way it sounds

NOW:
Wattage ratings of Amps and speakers are not always equal.
Let's say your 4 ch amp is rated at 100W/ch.
So what's the real rating? bc mfgrs will lie cheat and steal to make their amp rating look better.
There are at least 3 possibilities of what the true rating is. 1. RMS 2. Peak 3. Peak to Peak.
Looking at a a sine wave at 200 Watts Peak-Peak [Wp-p] we see that it has + and - 100 W Peaks. Knowing that RMS [root mean square] of a sine wave is .707. We deduce some things.
200W p-p is the same as 100 W pk and is the same as 70W RMS. So a good amp Co like Denon will tell you 100W RMS while a cheap Co will say it's 280W p-p [Again - SAME!]
Also know that the usually test 400-800 hz Sine wave for the "rating" and it gets even more confusing.
A few good rules. These are my rules, YMMV
1. Look for RMS and don't buy anything that uses any other measuring type.
2. Match the RMS as closely as possible. Though you can get away with a bit of difference. Never plug a 200W RMS amp into 10W speakers. Just turning the amp on could blow the speakers and possibly fry the amp. Look for no more than about 2 to 1 and the closer, the better. A severely underrated amp will not drive big speakers well either BTW.
3. NEVER run the amp at 100%. it's not really designed to go over about 85% cleanly or for any length of time. A good rule is stay under 70% if possible.
4. Pay close attention to placement. Especially high freq speakers. in a 5.1/7.1 system, [or any system with subs] the sub is generally for very low freqs. at 100hz, for any room in a house, you will not be able to hear the location bc the wavelength is going to be massive. EG: about 16 ft. so bass will fill just about any room no matter where in the room the speaker is. For a high speaker, it will matter a lot 5000hz [speaking range, the length is about 2 in. You need to locate the L, R and Ctr speakers appropriately.

So, to clarify it a bit.
For the avg home theater You'll want an amp with 100-250W RMS per ch. and speakers rated 50-150 highs and mids, and 100-300 subs [ISH]
And the sub can be anywhere in the room, but on the floor at least, and the L,R speakers equally from the Ctr. both front and rear. Then it's time to play with surround and "loudness" settings. Only you can hear when the setting is right for you.

They Call me "Mcgyver" because I can fix almost anything.
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post #15 of 22 Old 02-28-2020, 12:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by egadgetguy View Post
on my old amp there is no room correction and it was on direct, sound better.

i'm really dont now nothing about hometheater and right now i have amp that output 80W 2CH and its sound bad.
Here's a little something to confuse the situation, then some clarity.

But first, the reasons your old amp may sound better to you. Older tech was meant to play to the middle of the road, so there may be a fuller sound at default settings, but when tweaked properly, the new system could sound better. OR
You're just used to the way it sounds

NOW:
Wattage ratings of Amps and speakers are not always equal.
Let's say your 4 ch amp is rated at 100W/ch.
So what's the real rating? bc mfgrs will lie cheat and steal to make their amp rating look better.
There are at least 3 possibilities of what the true rating is. 1. RMS 2. Peak 3. Peak to Peak.
Looking at a a sine wave at 200 Watts Peak-Peak [Wp-p] we see that it has + and - 100 W Peaks. Knowing that RMS [root mean square] of a sine wave is .707. We deduce some things.
200W p-p is the same as 100 W pk and is the same as 70W RMS. So a good amp Co like Denon will tell you 100W RMS while a cheap Co will say it's 280W p-p [Again - SAME!]
Also know that the usually test 400-800 hz Sine wave for the "rating" and it gets even more confusing.
A few good rules. These are my rules, YMMV
1. Look for RMS and don't buy anything that uses any other measuring type.
2. Match the RMS as closely as possible. Though you can get away with a bit of difference. Never plug a 200W RMS amp into 10W speakers. Just turning the amp on could blow the speakers and possibly fry the amp. Look for no more than about 2 to 1 and the closer, the better. A severely underrated amp will not drive big speakers well either BTW.
3. NEVER run the amp at 100%. it's not really designed to go over about 85% cleanly or for any length of time. A good rule is stay under 70% if possible.
4. Pay close attention to placement. Especially high freq speakers. in a 5.1/7.1 system, [or any system with subs] the sub is generally for very low freqs. at 100hz, for any room in a house, you will not be able to hear the location bc the wavelength is going to be massive. EG: about 16 ft. so bass will fill just about any room no matter where in the room the speaker is. For a high speaker, it will matter a lot 5000hz [speaking range, the length is about 2 in. You need to locate the L, R and Ctr speakers appropriately.

So, to clarify it a bit.
For the avg home theater You'll want an amp with 100-250W RMS per ch. and speakers rated 50-150 highs and mids, and 100-300 subs [ISH]
And the sub can be anywhere in the room, but on the floor at least, and the L,R speakers equally from the Ctr. both front and rear. Then it's time to play with surround and "loudness" settings. Only you can hear when the setting is right for you.[/QUOTE]

wow, thank you for the explanation! appreciate it
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post #16 of 22 Old 02-28-2020, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egadgetguy View Post
...
For a high speaker, it will matter a lot 5000hz [speaking range], the length is about 2 in. You need to locate the L, R and Ctr speakers appropriately.
OOPS. I meant 500hz which it ~27 inches. Speaking range is 150 - 1000.
Quote:
So, to clarify it a bit.
For the avg home theater You'll want an amp with 100-250W RMS per ch. and speakers rated 50-150 highs and mids, and 100-300 subs [ISH]
And the sub can be anywhere in the room, but on the floor at least, and the L,R speakers equally from the Ctr. both front and rear. Then it's time to play with surround and "loudness" settings. Only you can hear when the setting is right for you.

They Call me "Mcgyver" because I can fix almost anything.
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post #17 of 22 Old 02-28-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by egadgetguy View Post
OOPS. I meant 500hz which is ~27 inches. Speaking range is 500 - 2000.
OOPS. I meant 500hz which is ~27 inches. Speaking range is 500 - 2000.

They Call me "Mcgyver" because I can fix almost anything.
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post #18 of 22 Old 02-28-2020, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by egadgetguy View Post
OOPS. I meant 500hz which is ~27 inches. Speaking range is 500 - 2000.
denon x3600H will work fine with this speakers, right? or need moe watts?

250W RMS

8 ohm

39hz 22000h

91dB.
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post #19 of 22 Old 02-29-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by heyworld2020 View Post
denon x3600H will work fine with this speakers, right? or need moe watts?

250W RMS

8 ohm

39hz 22000h

91dB.
That Denon will work fine.
My setup has 4ohm and 8 ohm speakers and that receiver works very well.
I am adding speakers this weekend to make it a 9 channel setup.
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post #20 of 22 Old 03-03-2020, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RobVFX View Post
That Denon will work fine.
My setup has 4ohm and 8 ohm speakers and that receiver works very well.
I am adding speakers this weekend to make it a 9 channel setup.
thank you.

this denon 3600 have low latency ? if i'm connecting my ps4 i dont want latency, can you confirm ?
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post #21 of 22 Old 03-03-2020, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by heyworld2020 View Post
thank you.

this denon 3600 have low latency ? if i'm connecting my ps4 i dont want latency, can you confirm ?
I have no idea about latency on this unit. I had an old denon and i was able to put the ps3 on there without issue.
I don't have a gaming console hooked into the system right now but I would be VERY surprised to find that it's a problem.
Get it via Amazon and you can return it if it's no good
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post #22 of 22 Old 03-04-2020, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RobVFX View Post
I have no idea about latency on this unit. I had an old denon and i was able to put the ps3 on there without issue.
I don't have a gaming console hooked into the system right now but I would be VERY surprised to find that it's a problem.
Get it via Amazon and you can return it if it's no good
thank you
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