Which AVRs have TRUE stereophonic sub outs? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 03-10-2020, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Which AVRs have TRUE stereophonic sub outs?

I'll be looking to upgrade my AVR in the next few months to a year. One of the features I'm looking for is an AVR with two sub pre-outs that has the capability to apply level and delay adjustments to each sub independently.

I know many of us already have a miniDSP for subwoofer EQ and that can also provide this functionality, however I do all of my EQ and room correction in software on my HTPC (my only source) and so I do not have a miniDSP and I'm loathe to buy one just for this one feature when some AVRs can do it.

Until recently I had assumed that any modern AVR advertised as supporting 'x.2.x' would have this capability.

Then I read the below quoted comment in this thread which made me question my assumption. This quote is from post #20 by @m. zillch . For context, he is replying to @Drew Neilson who has an Onkyo TX-NR787 according to his sig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Just so you know, I checked your manual and as I suspected (and as is quite common) the two sub outs are really nothing more than an internal Y-cord split. You have no independent control for EQ, L vs R, phase (distance), nor level. They are just two identical mono outs. Page 10:



"Stereophonic" sub outs are rare, but there are a few oddballs out there which allow it as an alternate configuration such as one or two Yamahas.
My questions:
1.) Exactly how rare is 'rare'? Am I seriously limited in my options by making this feature a requirement?
2.) Is there a list that someone has compiled of AVRs that do have this capability? Or anything at all that would save me from the laborious task trawling through the owner's manuals for every AVR model I consider?

All advice appreciated.

Source: Gaming/HT PC, i7 3770K, 16GB DDR3 2400Mhz, 2x GTX 980Ti SLI, MPC-HCx64 w/ MadVR & SVP frame interpolation
Display: Panasonic VT30 55" Plasma ::: Receiver: Denon AVR-1910
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post #2 of 9 Old 03-10-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ormy View Post
I'll be looking to upgrade my AVR in the next few months to a year. One of the features I'm looking for is an AVR with two sub pre-outs that has the capability to apply level and delay adjustments to each sub independently.



I know many of us already have a miniDSP for subwoofer EQ and that can also provide this functionality, however I do all of my EQ and room correction in software on my HTPC (my only source) and so I do not have a miniDSP and I'm loathe to buy one just for this one feature when some AVRs can do it.



Until recently I had assumed that any modern AVR advertised as supporting 'x.2.x' would have this capability.



Then I read the below quoted comment in this thread which made me question my assumption. This quote is from post #20 by @m. zillch . For context, he is replying to @Drew Neilson who has an Onkyo TX-NR787 according to his sig.







My questions:

1.) Exactly how rare is 'rare'? Am I seriously limited in my options by making this feature a requirement?

2.) Is there a list that someone has compiled of AVRs that do have this capability? Or anything at all that would save me from the laborious task trawling through the owner's manuals for every AVR model I consider?



All advice appreciated.


No idea how rare, but I have a Denon x4000 that has two outputs.

I can separately control the trim, and phase, distance. I’m not sure about EQ, as I don’t use it, but I don’t think it allows that. I use Audyssey which will level match the subs, and use PEQ accordingly. For $200 you can have an REW/MiniDSP solution that would likely be far more useful that any EQ baked into the AVR.


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post #3 of 9 Old 03-10-2020, 10:47 AM
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Afaik stereophonic means there is the ability to separatly configure the subs as left or right channel sub. That is very rare if not absent nowdays in mainstream AVR/AVPs.

Separate delay and volume on 2 sub outputs isnt rare but starts at the Denon 3600 line (think older versions of the 3x00 also) not sure about other brands but in that general retail price point i guess you will find independant sub outputs. Still mono but delay and volume adjusted independantly.
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post #4 of 9 Old 03-10-2020, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ormy View Post
1.) Exactly how rare is 'rare'? Am I seriously limited in my options by making this feature a requirement?
2.) Is there a list that someone has compiled of AVRs that do have this capability? Or anything at all that would save me from the laborious task trawling through the owner's manuals for every AVR model I consider?

All advice appreciated.
On Audyssey based units [Denon and Marantz, I believe, maybe more] the dual, independent control feature is called "SubEQ HT". Often units with Audyssey XT32 have it, but not necessarily all of them.

Yamaha doesn't have it on any of their lower-tier nor mid-tier AVRs, to the best of my knowledge, but some of their upscale Avantage series units do have it. One possible visual trick to quickly ID them is to check out the rear panel. The two sub outs will be red and white RCA jacks instead of the same color, like this one. [At least that's what I think. No promises.]

CORRECTION: My post above is addressing what AVRs have two sub outs with independent control. I don't think any Audyssey based units have stereophonic outputs, L vs R, because they are smart and know that's psychoacoustically silly.
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Last edited by m. zillch; 03-10-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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post #5 of 9 Old 03-12-2020, 04:46 PM
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@Ormy is your timeline now or in a year? What is your budget? How many channels do you need?



I believe Yamaha ypao with rsc can calibrate dual sub level and delay starting with the rx-a860 up to the new flagship rx-a3080


Denon starting with the x3400 and going up to the flagship x8500. Marantz starting with the sr6011 up to the flagship sr8012.


I believe Anthem receivers with ARC genesis can calibrate dual sub level and delay as well, but you will need to research that.
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post #6 of 9 Old 03-12-2020, 05:11 PM
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thanks @PioManiac glad i didn't get that a1060 on sale at Frys last year

Last edited by eriksells916; 03-12-2020 at 05:18 PM.
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post #7 of 9 Old 03-30-2020, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
@Ormy is your timeline now or in a year? What is your budget? How many channels do you need?



I believe Yamaha ypao with rsc can calibrate dual sub level and delay starting with the rx-a860 up to the new flagship rx-a3080


Denon starting with the x3400 and going up to the flagship x8500. Marantz starting with the sr6011 up to the flagship sr8012.


I believe Anthem receivers with ARC genesis can calibrate dual sub level and delay as well, but you will need to research that.

More likely in about a year's time, maybe slightly less. Certainly not in the next 6 months. Not sure that it makes a difference since I usually look at 2-5 year old gear anyway (not just in audio) to get high quality hardware within my budget.


Only using 5 channels right now, could well be 7 after the AVR upgrade, but I can't see myself going above 9 channels in the near/medium-future. If I do get more speakers, all-channels-driven power-handling will be a non-issue as I will go with more behringer b215xl/b212xl for sure. As I said in another thread, they are so efficient (and crossed at 90Hz) that I doubt they see a dozen watts each even when I listen as loud as I can tolerate.



Some great info though thanks, I will be looking more closely at the Yamaha offerings now. Anthem are not to my taste, too much money spent on aesthetics for me, anything that looks nice when it didn't have to is a waste of money for me haha.


Do you happen to know about any of the Pioneers? Specifically the SC-LX 5x/7x/8x range? I've been eyeing an SC-LX 85 or 86 in particular for a while now. If they (or a similar model in the range) had this feature I'm after that would be ideal. Anyone know?

Source: Gaming/HT PC, i7 3770K, 16GB DDR3 2400Mhz, 2x GTX 980Ti SLI, MPC-HCx64 w/ MadVR & SVP frame interpolation
Display: Panasonic VT30 55" Plasma ::: Receiver: Denon AVR-1910
5.1 Speakers: Behringer B215XLs
Subwoofers: 4x SI HT18 D4 - iNuke NU4-6000 w/ silent-fans (1 driver per channel at 2ohm)
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post #8 of 9 Old 03-30-2020, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Afaik stereophonic means there is the ability to separatly configure the subs as left or right channel sub. That is very rare if not absent nowdays in mainstream AVR/AVPs.

Sorry I should have been more clear. You're talking about the ability (in a 2.1 setup) to set Sub1 to take redirected bass from the left speaker and sub2 to take redirected bass from right speaker, correct? That is not what I need, sorry for confusion or misuse of the word 'stereophonic'.


I only really need delay and level to be independent settings for each sub, don't even need independent EQ although it would be a bonus.

Source: Gaming/HT PC, i7 3770K, 16GB DDR3 2400Mhz, 2x GTX 980Ti SLI, MPC-HCx64 w/ MadVR & SVP frame interpolation
Display: Panasonic VT30 55" Plasma ::: Receiver: Denon AVR-1910
5.1 Speakers: Behringer B215XLs
Subwoofers: 4x SI HT18 D4 - iNuke NU4-6000 w/ silent-fans (1 driver per channel at 2ohm)
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post #9 of 9 Old 03-30-2020, 09:33 PM
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The Denon and Marantz models with Audyssey XT32 seem to bundle SubEq, which sets the volume and delay for two subs indpendently. (They are afterwards equalized as one.)

The Denon AVR-X3x00 models and above have it. The Marantz SR601x and above have it. The Denon AVR-X3500H was the leastexpensive new model I've seen with SubEq, recently. It's a 2018 model, but it appears to be still available.

Some Yamahas have semi-independent dual sub equalization ,but I don't recall where the break is . I believe that it requires some fairly high-end models. Sorry that I can't be more helpful with Yamaha, or Pioneer or Onkyo.
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