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post #1 of 24 Old 03-27-2020, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ramifications of Adding Amp To 9.2.4 Receiver

Hi everyone. I’m building a 15x20 HT with a 7.1.4 system with potential of 7.2.4. I was doing research on 11 channel receivers and notice that they run some 2K and puts me over budget. 9 channel receivers are significantly cheaper and wonder if I’m better off going that route and adding a 2 channel amp. My questions:
-is there an 11 channel receiver that is near 1K?
-if I go with the amp option, will the receiver/amp be able to separate the channels like an 11 channel receiver would?
-will the sound be compromised using an amp?
-would I be better running 2 of the 4 atmos speakers through the amp and the rest through the receiver?

I am new to a lot of this and appreciate anyone’s expertise on this topic.

Thanks again.
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-27-2020, 09:22 AM
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Welcome! Yes 7.1.4 is the best atmos layout you can get for under $1k, of course. If you want to take it to the next level there are about 6 processors that are out or coming out that actually do 9.1.6. They start about $3k

So for about $1k, here are your 11 channel options.
Denon x3600/x44400/x4500
Onkyo - rz730/740/830/840
Pioneer - vsx-lx503/504
NAD - 758v3

I do not have 11 channels, so this recommendation is based on reading through the forums and my interpretation. The most to benefit from an external amp are the LCR speakers. If you can get a 3 channel amp for those and let the receiver run the rest you would be fine. Unless you play it loud for hours on end or you have hard to drive/inefficient (4ohm speakers). Of course, double check configuration options for each receiver above.


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post #3 of 24 Old 03-27-2020, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacitems4sale View Post
Hi everyone. I’m building a 15x20 HT with a 7.1.4 system with potential of 7.2.4. I was doing research on 11 channel receivers and notice that they run some 2K and puts me over budget. 9 channel receivers are significantly cheaper and wonder if I’m better off going that route and adding a 2 channel amp. My questions:
-is there an 11 channel receiver that is near 1K?
-if I go with the amp option, will the receiver/amp be able to separate the channels like an 11 channel receiver would?
-will the sound be compromised using an amp?

-would I be better running 2 of the 4 atmos speakers through the amp and the rest through the receiver?

I am new to a lot of this and appreciate anyone’s expertise on this topic.

Thanks again.
Adding an amp works great. Many of us have been doing just that for years. Maybe a Denon X3600H would work for you - https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx3600h
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-28-2020, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the thoughts. I’m leaning on purchasing the Denon 3600 receiver. Can I get a good amp sound 300 or under? If so, what recommendations? Also, if I went with a two channel, could I just hook the amp to two of the height speakers?
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-28-2020, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cacitems4sale View Post
Thanks for the thoughts. I’m leaning on purchasing the Denon 3600 receiver. Can I get a good amp sound 300 or under? If so, what recommendations? Also, if I went with a two channel, could I just hook the amp to two of the height speakers?
If you're using an external amp just to power the rear heights, it can be inexpensive. The least expensive one that I know of that has the features I'd want (mainly 12V trigger) is the Dayton APA102BT at Parts Express. (On sale for $110US.) It's class D. If you'd prefer Class A/B, the cloassic choice is the Audioource AMP100VS. I used an Audiosource AD1002, which is very similar to the Dayton.

I'm currently running a Denon ACR-X4300H (2016 model) with an Emotiva XPA3 Gen3. The Emotiva powers the LCR fronts, the AVR the other 8 channels. Works well, but the XPA3 is expensive, and probably excessive.
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-29-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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That’s helpful and will go likely go with a 2 channel amp to run the atmos, due to budget. Is there a different receiver you recommend other than the Denon 3600 or is that recommended at that price point?
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-29-2020, 09:51 AM
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See post #2 above for options!


Yes the x3600 is an excellent choice and the only one (x4400 + x4500) with the ability to calibrate dual subs semi-independently if that is a requirement.
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-29-2020, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by eriksells916 View Post
See post #2 above for options!


(snip)
When you (Cacitems4sale) check out post 2, you may find that the Onkyo TX-RZ730 is the least expensive AVR available that supports 11 channels (by adding a stereo amp). I know nothing about it, but it's $500 online.

I like the idea of the 3600. I liked it better some weeks ago when it was still widely availble online for $900. Acccesories4less still lists new ones at that. (Refurbs, $150 less.) I don't know whether the online major sellers would price match A4L on a new unit. I'm also not sure that A4L is an authorized Denon retailer (to obtain the warranty), but I believe that they are.

I can't guess whether getting Audyssey XT32 plus SubEq (equalization for 2 subs) would be worth the extra money to you. When I got the X4300H almost 3 years ago, I was even more AV ignorant than I am now. I haven't regretted it. (One mild regret: if I had waited 5 months, I could have had a brand new X4300H for $300 less than I paid for a refurb. Fortunately, the refurb has been perfect.)
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post #9 of 24 Old 03-30-2020, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cacitems4sale View Post
Thanks for the thoughts. I’m leaning on purchasing the Denon 3600 receiver. Can I get a good amp sound 300 or under? If so, what recommendations? Also, if I went with a two channel, could I just hook the amp to two of the height speakers?
i would suggest let your receiver do the surround and Atmos and get better amp for main and center or just main. this will give you better quality on music. added amos for music is much better than regular Air, i just added 2 channel parasound, now all my AVR power goes to run other.
5 channels external amps you could look are.
Emotiva BAssX 575 and Outlaw 5000 are best bang for Buck. it will add lot of dynamics to your system.

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post #10 of 24 Old 03-30-2020, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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That is a great point and now you have me considering more like a 5 channel. Of course I’m trying to keep budget in mind but def sounds like the right thing to do if I’m dumping $2500 on speakers.

This is a long shot question I’m sure but I do have an older Onkyo SR 607. Could that plug into lets say a Denon 3600 and act like an amp?
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-30-2020, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Cacitems4sale View Post
That is a great point and now you have me considering more like a 5 channel. Of course I’m trying to keep budget in mind but def sounds like the right thing to do if I’m dumping $2500 on speakers.

This is a long shot question I’m sure but I do have an older Onkyo SR 607. Could that plug into lets say a Denon 3600 and act like an amp?
I would rather save money to do it right, my understanding is invest good money in amp as it will last long time, Get pre processor instead of AVR or get a decent AVR with preout for 9 or 11 channels and connect to separate AMP. Speakers needs power specially front three, they sound so much better with more power. issue is also space for equipment, entertainment center needs to accommodate all that stuff which is heavy, so plan carefully. I would get two small subs instead of one powerful sub, budget for all that, it is step by step process, it took me a while to get all i need.

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post #12 of 24 Old 03-30-2020, 07:05 AM
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there is a nice marantz amp in the classifieds for $400. Decent price for a decent amp! (fyi i have no affiliation at all with the seller, just that i troll the classifieds a lot!)r
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-30-2020, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacitems4sale View Post
That is a great point and now you have me considering more like a 5 channel. Of course I’m trying to keep budget in mind but def sounds like the right thing to do if I’m dumping $2500 on speakers.

This is a long shot question I’m sure but I do have an older Onkyo SR 607. Could that plug into lets say a Denon 3600 and act like an amp?
Most AVRs can be used as 2 channel amps. At a very quick glance, the SR607 does not have the multichannel analog inputs that would allow it to do more than 2 channels.
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post #14 of 24 Old 04-04-2020, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response. I took a picture of my older Onkyo SR 607 receiver.

What ports would I need to hook up the speakers to when using this as an amp?
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post #15 of 24 Old 04-04-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cacitems4sale View Post
Thanks for the response. I took a picture of my older Onkyo SR 607 receiver.

What ports would I need to hook up the speakers to when using this as an amp?

I believe any of the analog inputs except the phono input. You need to do a factory reset too in order clear everything. I believe when you run the room correction on the main receiver, the sr607 volume needs to be at 80/0 db? Double check my info on that step.
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post #16 of 24 Old 04-04-2020, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Is bobknavs accurate on only being able to run 2 speakers and nothing else off of this?
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post #17 of 24 Old 04-07-2020, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Will I only be able to run 2 channels through the Onkyo SR 607 when using it as an amp?
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post #18 of 24 Old 04-07-2020, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
When you (Cacitems4sale) check out post 2, you may find that the Onkyo TX-RZ730 is the least expensive AVR available that supports 11 channels (by adding a stereo amp). I know nothing about it, but it's $500 online.

I like the idea of the 3600. I liked it better some weeks ago when it was still widely availble online for $900. Acccesories4less still lists new ones at that. (Refurbs, $150 less.) I don't know whether the online major sellers would price match A4L on a new unit. I'm also not sure that A4L is an authorized Denon retailer (to obtain the warranty), but I believe that they are.

I can't guess whether getting Audyssey XT32 plus SubEq (equalization for 2 subs) would be worth the extra money to you. When I got the X4300H almost 3 years ago, I was even more AV ignorant than I am now. I haven't regretted it. (One mild regret: if I had waited 5 months, I could have had a brand new X4300H for $300 less than I paid for a refurb. Fortunately, the refurb has been perfect.)
Accessories4less is listed as a dealer on the Denon website.
https://usa.denon.com/us/wheretobuy/...DEALER_LOCATOR

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http://www.blu-ray.com/community/col...&action=hybrid
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post #19 of 24 Old 04-09-2020, 12:50 AM
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Thanks. Is bobknavs accurate on only being able to run 2 speakers and nothing else off of this?
Yes, unless the Onkyo's Surround Back speakers can be re-assigned as Zone 2, then it could be used to power 4 speakers, although 2 is all you need to power the X3600H Height 2 to expand it from 9CH --> 11CH.

I discuss this in more detail in post 8 of the Denon 2019 AVR Owner's thread …

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post57909756
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post #20 of 24 Old 04-21-2020, 05:06 PM
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Updating Home Theater components: unusual speaker set-up for AVRX3600H

Hi AVS community. It has been a while since I have jumped on and posted. I have a question in line with this thread regarding optimizing Denon's AVRX3600H while either using, or expanding current speaker situation:
Firstly let me provide a short review of my current theater room components:
NOTE: my theater is a dedicated room that is 24' L x 17' W x 9' H


NEW! Stewart StudioTek 130 G4 Reference screen, 116" diagonal 1.78:1, Balon Borderless, fixed screen (Model: BAL116HST13G4EZ)



JVC 4K (3-D enabled) projector Model: DLA-X500RBU, ceiling mounted with a Chief RPA Series projector mount.



NEW! Denon AVRX3600H


Newish MartinLogan Dynomo 700W sub-woofer (ON FLOOR)

OLD! Sonance Model: Cinema .5, Cabinet (IN-WALL) Left, Center and Right channel speakers
OLD! Sonance Model: Symphony SRS1 Side and Rear Channels (i.e. 4 round speakers IN CEILING)

OLD! Sonance Model: Virtuoso A800DR Sub-woofer & Amplifier (IN-WALL)


NOTE: The Sonance speakers are original to the custom home built by someone other than me in 2005.


My dilemma is essentially I want to make useful the 4 in-ceiling speakers, while maximizing my sound quality and emmersion using the new Denon A/V model listed above. I have my current set-up as 7.1 (not using the in-ceiling Sonance Virtuoso sub-woofer). I would like to upgrade to a 5.2.4, or 7.2.4 but the Denon only supports 9.2.


Should I buy new left front, center, right front, and left/right rear surround speakers and utilize the four speakers in the ceiling to create a 5.2.4? or can I add the two mid surround bookshelf speakers to make a 7.2.4 (if so, how best to do this when using the Denon AVRX3600H)?


Relative to my video system, my audio system has outdated speakers and is in desperate need of upgrade.


I attached a few photos to provide some visuals of my set-up and theater. My seating needs an upgrade too!!



I appreciate your thoughts and insights.


Happy Film Screening to all!

from WA state
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post #21 of 24 Old 04-21-2020, 05:40 PM
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Hi AVS community. It has been a while since I have jumped on and posted. I have a question in line with this thread regarding optimizing Denon's AVRX3600H while either using, or expanding current speaker situation:
Firstly let me provide a short review of my current theater room components:
NOTE: my theater is a dedicated room that is 24' L x 17' W x 9' H


NEW! Stewart StudioTek 130 G4 Reference screen, 116" diagonal 1.78:1, Balon Borderless, fixed screen (Model: BAL116HST13G4EZ)



JVC 4K (3-D enabled) projector Model: DLA-X500RBU, ceiling mounted with a Chief RPA Series projector mount.



NEW! Denon AVRX3600H


Newish MartinLogan Dynomo 700W sub-woofer (ON FLOOR)

OLD! Sonance Model: Cinema .5, Cabinet (IN-WALL) Left, Center and Right channel speakers
OLD! Sonance Model: Symphony SRS1 Side and Rear Channels (i.e. 4 round speakers IN CEILING)

OLD! Sonance Model: Virtuoso A800DR Sub-woofer & Amplifier (IN-WALL)


NOTE: The Sonance speakers are original to the custom home built by someone other than me in 2005.


My dilemma is essentially I want to make useful the 4 in-ceiling speakers, while maximizing my sound quality and emmersion using the new Denon A/V model listed above. I have my current set-up as 7.1 (not using the in-ceiling Sonance Virtuoso sub-woofer). I would like to upgrade to a 5.2.4, or 7.2.4 but the Denon only supports 9.2.


Should I buy new left front, center, right front, and left/right rear surround speakers and utilize the four speakers in the ceiling to create a 5.2.4? or can I add the two mid surround bookshelf speakers to make a 7.2.4 (if so, how best to do this when using the Denon AVRX3600H)?


Relative to my video system, my audio system has outdated speakers and is in desperate need of upgrade.


I attached a few photos to provide some visuals of my set-up and theater. My seating needs an upgrade too!!



I appreciate your thoughts and insights.


Happy Film Screening to all!

from WA state
Nice space. Budget? Are you willing to open the walls? Do you want to keep the clean built-in look?

For starters, you are installed with a 3.1.4... which is not recommended for Atmos

nor is running a 5.2.2 when the rear surrounds are ceiling mounted.

however, you could give it a try with everything you have now.

or, which is why I asked about opening up the walls - this is not a requirement you could run speaker wire along the baseboards

you will need an outboard amp for running the rear height channels ( lowest cost) or using the AVR channels to run everything but the mains (as been recommended above).

you could run both of the subs you have now.

good luck have fun

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post #22 of 24 Old 04-22-2020, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iserum View Post
i would suggest let your receiver do the surround and Atmos and get better amp for main and center or just main. this will give you better quality on music. added amos for music is much better than regular Air, i just added 2 channel parasound, now all my AVR power goes to run other.
5 channels external amps you could look are.
Emotiva BAssX 575 and Outlaw 5000 are best bang for Buck. it will add lot of dynamics to your system.
I just got the outlaw 5000 a couple weeks ago, really works great very happy with it.
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post #23 of 24 Old 04-22-2020, 10:16 AM
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for that size room you would need large sub woofer two of them. it is a long process. plan and keep adding what is needed for room. those small front speakers on wall gives clean look but will not have enough power to fill room. you can read the spec and try to power them with out law and see how much clean power opens those front speakers you AVR can power the surround and Atmos which not need too much power.

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Marantz SR6013: Parasound 2250 V2: Aircom T8: Dolby Atmos 5.2.4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
Nice space. Budget? Are you willing to open the walls? Do you want to keep the clean built-in look?

For starters, you are installed with a 3.1.4... which is not recommended for Atmos

nor is running a 5.2.2 when the rear surrounds are ceiling mounted.

however, you could give it a try with everything you have now.

or, which is why I asked about opening up the walls - this is not a requirement you could run speaker wire along the baseboards

you will need an outboard amp for running the rear height channels ( lowest cost) or using the AVR channels to run everything but the mains (as been recommended above).

you could run both of the subs you have now.

good luck have fun



Hi smithsabom,
Thank you for your thoughts.


Just a preface, the in-wall speakers were not installed by me, but pre-existed in the theater room when I purchased the home. I agree, the current set-up is not ideal and I need to upgrade my speaker situation.


Fortunately, the theater room is on the top floor of a >5000 square foot home. I do have good access to the area above the theater room (i.e. attic area above) which has plenty of room to stand up, walk around and slide down new (higher quality speaker wire) either for new rear surround and/or new mid surround. My budget is $2500 to $3000 for what I initially thought would be best scenario to upgrade the speakers: new tower left and right front, and quality center channel and two surround speakers. I originally planned to use the 2 pairs of in-ceiling speakers for either Atmos or 1 pair for Atmos and 1 pair as the mid-surround.
Currently I have the the fronts and center channel connected to the Denon per normal, and the in-ceilings speakers (2 mid-surround and 2 rear surround).
All in-wall and in-ceiling speakers are >15 years old, so most new speakers will provide substantial improvement to sounds quality.

In regards to the clean built-in look... no, I prefer to have good performing speakers rather than looking seamless (I am not a big fan of in-wall speakers, or in-ceiling speakers, especially considering that the room height is 9 feet and the room size is sufficient for towers, etc. I was planning to have new speakers that are not in-wall.


Also, have others used MiddleAtlantic custom racks? I have built an industrial grade pull-out rack that rotates 180 degrees in a previous theater room project, but I wanted to build one for this project using the MiddleAtlantic online rack designing tool, but I am having difficulty with their online rack builder and corresponding registration.
Thank you for your time and insight!
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