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post #31 of 52 Old 04-15-2020, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medal View Post
Yes, and if I don't right away, it looks like I'd need to just get away with a version of the hybrid 5.1.4 (it would sort of be 5.2.4), because instead of the speakers labeled 5 in this pic being up-firing, they would be in-ceiling. Is that correct?

I believe it is, that is where my confusion is right now. I'm not sure if those two speakers (labeled 5 in the picture attached) would go into the height channel or the surround back channels on my AVR?

Again, thanks for the info and help.
Those are just surround speakers with up firing modules.

If it were me, I’d add a cheap pair of surrounds for the time being to complete the proper 5.x.4 Atmos configuration, and if later on you feel like you want/need something that matches your LCR, then go ahead and buy new ones. While it nice to have all matching speakers, it isn’t absolutely necessary. Plus, the surrounds aren’t playing nearly as much content as the center channel or L/R, so you can get away with having a different set of speakers back there. Especially if it’s just temporary.

That said, you could even get away with utilizing some old satellites from a HTIB system or something. That’s what I did, and it worked well enough to hold me over. Just something to think about.

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post #32 of 52 Old 04-15-2020, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
If by "make do" you mean use the 4 ceiling speakers I think it would be best to set the rear in-ceilings as surround (not rear surround) and the forward in-ceiling as Atmos (or "height").

Ideally you would have a pair of bookshelves/in-walls to use as surrounds and the in-ceilings as Atmos.
Got it- thanks a ton. I don't hope to do that, but I may as I wait for whatever I pick up to arrive for rear speakers.

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #33 of 52 Old 04-15-2020, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Those are just surround speakers with up firing modules.

If it were me, I’d add a cheap pair of surrounds for the time being to complete the proper 5.x.4 Atmos configuration, and if later on you feel like you want/need something that matches your LCR, then go ahead and buy new ones. While it nice to have all matching speakers, it isn’t absolutely necessary. Plus, the surrounds aren’t playing nearly as much content as the center channel or L/R, so you can get away with having a different set of speakers back there. Especially if it’s just temporary.

That said, you could even get away with utilizing some old satellites from a HTIB system or something. That’s what I did, and it worked well enough to hold me over. Just something to think about.
I understand completely and exactly what I'm thinking of doing. Looks like finding a pair that matches my LCR shouldn't be difficult...they are not overly expensive compared to the rest of this set up but I understand now why they would be important for this to work correctly/sound correctly.

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #34 of 52 Old 04-15-2020, 03:52 PM
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A pair of Polk Signature S15s would be all that you need for your surround speakers. They will match your fronts perfectly and you can still cross them over at 80Hz. This way, you will have a 5.2.4 Atmos setup.
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post #35 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philpoe View Post
If interested, here's an article that compares the room correction systems available in 2017. The various versions of Audyssey are described, and are pretty much the same today. They really like the step up to XT32.
https://hometheaterreview.com/room-c...ion-revisited/

Besides the XT32, stepping up from the X2600H gets you 7.2 (X3500H) or 11.2 (X3600H/X4500H) preouts if you ever decide to go with full external amps. The X2600H would have to be replaced if you decide to do that later.

If you don't mind getting 2 more speakers and mounting them, with the X4500H you get the ability to go 5.2.4 right away with 9 on-board amps, and 7.2.4 with an external amplifier (and a trigger to turn it on) later, instead of being "limited" to 5.2.2 for immersive audio.
Speakers like the Polk OWM5 might be suitable for 5.x surrounds and relatively easily placed/mounted. Then the ceiling speakers could be used for the x.x.4 for Atmos/DTS:X

4K/60Hz upscaling is there as well as opposed to 4K/30Hz on the X2600H, but your TV may or may not do a better job of it. Some brands (Vizio is singled out at times) are criticized for its on-board upscaling. rtings.com may help you decide if that's an issue for you.

The X4500H offers over the X3500H/X3600H
Zone 2 allows for custom settings, and you get an ability for a Zone 3.
Internal cooling fans, which may be useful, depending on where the AVR gets located. There are those that would spend extra just for the fans(cooling design in general, including the fans).
Bass Sync for LFE (Not the same as dual sub management in XT32. At least that's over the X3500H. It's not mentioned at all in the 2019 FAQ)
http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4500H/N...SYvsbphziy.php
Auro3D capability

By going with a 2018 model instead of 2019, you give up at least eARC, HDCP 2.3 and bluetooth transmission, if any of those matter to you.
1. As the fans only turn on when core temp reaches 156F, highly unlikely they would ever power on, especially if sufficient ventilation is provided.
2. Both the 2018 X3500H and X4500H feature eARC which was added via a firmware update as noted in post 1 of the 2018 Denon AVR Owner's thread.
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post #36 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
A pair of Polk Signature S15s would be all that you need for your surround speakers. They will match your fronts perfectly and you can still cross them over at 80Hz. This way, you will have a 5.2.4 Atmos setup.
I spent the rest of last night and a few hours this morning trying to understand how I could add the S15s, S10's, or some other LRC equivalent as discussed but in a wireless capacity and the information available doesn't make sense to me. I understand that I would need to send the signal wirelessly via something like the SVS wireless solution, but that doesn't appear to be able to power the speakers in addition to transmitting the signal. Would I need that solution, which I happen to have one already that I was going to return, and add a small amp as well to power these two speakers?

Hopefully that's clear, but I believe based on what I read and watched on YT that is what I need, I'm just confused on the power-piece of this puzzle. Any help is apprieciated.

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #37 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 08:46 AM
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Which SVS wireless solution are you speaking of? Can you provide a link? I only see one for subwoofers, not speakers on their site.

Something like this Rocketfish would work for bookshelf speakers.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...?skuId=6254098

Honestly, I'd find a way to run speaker wire instead, either under carpet, along the base board, flat speaker wire, etc
https://www.electronichouse.com/home...-speaker-wire/
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post #38 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Which SVS wireless solution are you speaking of? Can you provide a link? I only see one for subwoofers, not speakers on their site.

Something like this Rocketfish would work for bookshelf speakers.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...?skuId=6254098

Honestly, I'd find a way to run speaker wire instead, either under carpet, along the base board, flat speaker wire, etc
https://www.electronichouse.com/home...-speaker-wire/
Sorry about that it's this one...I have one here at home:

https://www.svsound.com/products/sou...xoCzQEQAvD_BwE

..but that rocketfish kit was something I was looking at as well as a possible solution. I hear you on the running cables but I really hope to avoid it.

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #39 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 09:04 AM
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The SVS solution is for a powered subwoofer, not passive speakers.

The Rocketfish kit would be for passive speakers like Polk signature bookshelfs
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post #40 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
The SVS solution is for a powered subwoofer, not passive speakers.

The Rocketfish kit would be for passive speakers like Polk signature bookshelfs
Looks like that kit has absolutely terrible reviews....but this one not as bad:

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ampl.../dp/B01ARM0VE0

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #41 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 09:32 AM
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okay, looks like it cost a bit more but if it does what you need then get it....

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post #42 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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okay, looks like it cost a bit more but if it does what you need then get it....
Thinking about this instead/as well...

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Adhesiv...079NTKWS2?th=1

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #43 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 09:45 AM
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I've read about ghost wire. That should work too. Make sure you get enough length for each speaker.
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post #44 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Medal View Post
Looks like that kit has absolutely terrible reviews....but this one not as bad:

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ampl.../dp/B01ARM0VE0
Don't be quick to dismiss the Rocketfish...I've used it twice before (tho I currently run wire...different house, different situation...) and it worked perfectly with no dropouts, and Audyssey and YPAO recognized the speakers just fine.
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post #45 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't be quick to dismiss the Rocketfish...I've used it twice before (tho I currently run wire...different house, different situation...) and it worked perfectly with no dropouts, and Audyssey and YPAO recognized the speakers just fine.
huh, no kidding! So you think it's just as good as the Amphony kit? It's a good amount cheaper for sure.

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #46 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 03:36 PM
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huh, no kidding! So you think it's just as good as the Amphony kit? It's a good amount cheaper for sure.
I don't have any experience with Amphony, so can't offer any input there. Rocketfish is a Best Buy product, so I'd suggest trying it out for the sake of saving money, and return it if you don't like it. Just save the packaging!
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post #47 of 52 Old 04-16-2020, 05:11 PM
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is this the receiver your were looking to upgrade too?
Link

if so please post back with your thoughts on the receiver.
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post #48 of 52 Old 04-18-2020, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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is this the receiver your were looking to upgrade too?
Link

if so please post back with your thoughts on the receiver.
Sorry I'm just responding to this now, I didn't see the notification. Yes, I actually never unboxed the 2600h, just sent it back and should have the 4500 on Wednesday this coming week, April 22nd. I probably won't get all of the equipment in my sig set up until that following weekend, but I certainly will post my thoughts and an update.

I also ordered the Sonarworks XREF20 for room calibration and the ART USB Dual Pre 2-channel Audio Interface / Preamplifier to connect it to my macbook pro.

My plan is to get use the mic and see what I can get, then either add the minidsp 2x4 HD for the subs, or something larger for all the speakers...I had to go with the above mic because the UMIK and minidsp don't seem to be in stock anywhere. I"m going on limb with the above mic, but I did find a comment from Sonarworks explaining how to use their mic and calibration file with REW, should I decide to use it instead of or in parallel to their own software, Reference 4.

I've never had a system like this and never did room calibration, but between this forum and YT etc., the info is out there and I hope to give back as much as I've received in the way of assistance.

Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #49 of 52 Old 04-23-2020, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Those are just surround speakers with up firing modules.

If it were me, I’d add a cheap pair of surrounds for the time being to complete the proper 5.x.4 Atmos configuration, and if later on you feel like you want/need something that matches your LCR, then go ahead and buy new ones. While it nice to have all matching speakers, it isn’t absolutely necessary. Plus, the surrounds aren’t playing nearly as much content as the center channel or L/R, so you can get away with having a different set of speakers back there. Especially if it’s just temporary.

That said, you could even get away with utilizing some old satellites from a HTIB system or something. That’s what I did, and it worked well enough to hold me over. Just something to think about.
Hey all, just thought I'd update since last posting the above. So the only reason I went with the above mic and room correction software, was because the UMIK-1 seemed to be out of stock everywhere. However, as soon as I took delivery, I got notified by minisdp that I could order and get the mic in week. So back to the store the XREF20 and ART 2-channel I would have needed to connect that mic to my macbook.

EDIT: I also wanted to avoid having to use the back, in-ceiling speakers, as my surrounds...so I picked up a couple Polk S10s. I would have gone with the 15's or even the 20's, but space is limited and these seemed to have a great reviews. If for any reason they don't fit the bill...I'll be returning them for either 15 or 20's. Anything I'll update on when the time comes.

I took delivery of the UMIK-1 a day ago, and while all this was going on, I continued educating myself as @d-rail34 so kindly reminded me I should before going nuts on the forum, thank you, and realized that everyone seemingly everywhere, recommends the minidsp 2x4 HD. So, I ordered that as well and took delivery of that at the same time as the UMIK-1.

As it stands, it will be another couple days before I set everything up following the construction at my house, but I replaced the mic and will use REW with the minidsp 2x4 HD as soon as possible. I also got a quick turnaround on exchanging the denon 2600h with the 4500h, another recommendation that I appreciated. I"m beyond excited, and will post an update with before and after REW findings, as well as anything else that happened during set up. I'm hoping to pay it back a little, so once I have everything set up, I'll share everything I can and will list out what I sources I used etc.
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post #50 of 52 Old 04-23-2020, 01:21 PM
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I think this is the first time that I was quoted AND mentioned in the same post. I feel honored.

All kidding aside, once you get the hang of REW/MiniDSP you're going to be able see some excellent improvements to your rig.

I'll have to go back and see if any tutorial vids were posted on here, but if not, I'll edit this post with some links that'll help you out.


Darrell


[EDIT]

Here is a link to the Home Theater Gurus YouTube channel that has some great information to help you figure some of this out.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwx...mIaH1jQ/videos

Here you will find links to the Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, "Official" Audyssey thread Part II, and The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...d-part-ii.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...r-version.html

I know that this is a lot of reading material, but there is some very valuable info contained in these threads that will help you out tremendously.

"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

Living Room - Denon AVR-X2400H/MiniDSP 2X4HD/Hsu Research HB-1 Bookshelf (4) w/HC-1 Center/SVS PB12 Plus (1)/Samsung UN65H7150/Sony UBP-X800/PC Built by D-Rail/XBox One S/Rythmik T-Shirt (1)

Last edited by d-rail34; 04-23-2020 at 02:14 PM.
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post #51 of 52 Old 04-30-2020, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
I think this is the first time that I was quoted AND mentioned in the same post. I feel honored.

All kidding aside, once you get the hang of REW/MiniDSP you're going to be able see some excellent improvements to your rig.

I'll have to go back and see if any tutorial vids were posted on here, but if not, I'll edit this post with some links that'll help you out.


Darrell


[EDIT]

Here is a link to the Home Theater Gurus YouTube channel that has some great information to help you figure some of this out.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwx...mIaH1jQ/videos

Here you will find links to the Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, "Official" Audyssey thread Part II, and The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...d-part-ii.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...r-version.html

I know that this is a lot of reading material, but there is some very valuable info contained in these threads that will help you out tremendously.
LOL well I appreciate your help and the help from everyone else. I finally got everything set up. I have not run room correction yet via audyssey and I don't have minidsp 2x4 HD installed yet...as I'm trying to figure out if I should have each sub connected to the 4500h directly (like it currently is) and run audyssey, or if I should run one line out from the 4500h, to the minidsp HD, and two lines out to each sub? The reason I'm trying to figure out which is because I"m not 100% on whether I should have the 4500h look at the subs as one sub or two from the get go....it's also not 100% clear if I should use the minidsp before or after audyssey?

I'm still learning, and I've never done anything like this before...at least everything is working. The rear surround satellites are a mess, as I just wanted to make sure everything worked, as those are wirelessly connect to my receiver via the Amphony 1800 Wireless Speaker Kit...which they are beautifully. Anyways...here are the first set of pics I promised.

Thanks again all..... and any additional help, input, and/or recommendations are highly appreciated.

-Medal

EDIT: I should add that I did not have room for the PC-2000 pros....so I swapped them with SVS for the SB-3000's. I counldn't be happier; would have preferred ported but these sound amazing and I don't have them even configured for anything special...basically out of the box as of this post.
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Living Room: Denon AVR-X4500H, (2) Polk S60 Tower, (1) Polk S35 Center, (2) Polk S10, (4) Monitor Audio C165 In-ceiling, (2) SVS SB-3000, miniDSP 2x4 HD w/UMIK-1
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post #52 of 52 Old 04-30-2020, 09:54 PM
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@Medal ,

For dual sub setup, your signal chain should be set up such: AVR Sub Out 1>MiniDSP Input 1>MiniDSP Output 1 & 3>Subs.

Here is the link to the instructions on Page 1 of the BEQ thread to help better guide you in the right direction. I've had a few adult beverages (Blame the stay at home order! ) and I don't want to tell you something that might be incorrect, so this will be the best course of action in this particular instance. It has all of the information that you should need to get you set up properly.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56610168

As for getting the subs dialed in, you should do that prior to running room calibration. Use this video tutorial from HT Gurus to help in this regard.

If think of something else I'll post it for ya. Cheers brutha!


Darrell
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"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

Living Room - Denon AVR-X2400H/MiniDSP 2X4HD/Hsu Research HB-1 Bookshelf (4) w/HC-1 Center/SVS PB12 Plus (1)/Samsung UN65H7150/Sony UBP-X800/PC Built by D-Rail/XBox One S/Rythmik T-Shirt (1)

Last edited by d-rail34; 04-30-2020 at 09:59 PM.
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