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post #61 of 620 Old 04-23-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiva Nair View Post
Thanks Markus..

For my case, which one do you recommend out of the below:

Target curves for Dirac Live 2.5.2 and later:
+4dB low frequency boost
+6dB low frequency boost
+8dB low frequency boost
+10dB low frequency boost

Thanks.
Depends on room, listening level and preference. Try them all. Start with the one in the middle so you know in which direction to go.
I am using latest version of Dirac ver 2 I have made the changes to pull the right curtain to 3khz. How do I optimize as there is no "Optimize" button in Dirac 2.X that applies the changes and re-calculates the Dirac filters.
After I make changes to the Dirac custom target curve, how do I apply the changes to the receiver?
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post #62 of 620 Old 04-23-2020, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Shiva Nair View Post
I am using latest version of Dirac ver 2 I have made the changes to pull the right curtain to 3khz. How do I optimize as there is no "Optimize" button in Dirac 2.X that applies the changes and re-calculates the Dirac filters.
After I make changes to the Dirac custom target curve, how do I apply the changes to the receiver?
Here is a quick step by step off the top of my head.

1. Start Dirac and Load your measurements.

2. Dirac should have grouped your speakers into groups. Fronts, Center, Subs, Sides, Rears, Front/top, Back/top etc...

a. You can leave them as is or drag them into your own groups.

b. The easiest way for you would probably be to drag all the speakers into one group and then subs into another group. So that would give you just two groups.

3. Load the filter you want into both groups.

4. Since you don't like what it is doing to your highs. Drag the Right curtain to the right and that will stop the EQing above what ever you pick.

5. For the subs, drag the Right curtain down to your crossover.

6. Dirac will auto optimize everytime you do a adjustment(someone can again correct me if I am wrong)

7. Load the Dirac Filter into one of your slots on the final step into the Receiver/Preamp



That should be it and now just test it , see if you like it and if not just go back and try loading another filter or create your own.

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post #63 of 620 Old 04-23-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks Markus, I have a couple follow ups for clarity

1. In your answer I didn’️t get what you meant about don’️t use target curves for overall boosting of speakers As the redirecting bass to the subwoofer doesn’️t get boosted by same amount....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I am unclear what I am doing wrong or should be doing differently. I will explain the process I usually do if you could help me please:

A) I run the Dirac multi point and get the flat/default curve (correction) and save it

B) Then, in the heights speaker group only I raise every dot on the chart above where my subwoofer can go (15-16hz) by my desired Amount of 3-4dB and add that into one of my slots

C) I then Go back into the correction stage and add the filter for the room feel curve to ALL MY SPEAKERS INCLUDING SUBS so that they are the same and then I do the same thing to the height speakers of raising them by 3-4dB to the height speakers group only and then add that to a different slot on my NAD
Not sure I follow. Please post screenshots.

In any case, the procedure sounds wrong. Please follow the links in post 1.
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-2/
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-2-avr-crossover/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
2. Will me correcting my OLD saved projects before the gain algorithm was fixed with the new software Make an improvement even if I don’️t rerun the measurements?
Yes.
Thanks again @markus767 .

I just meant that once I run a project and the Dirac makes the correction I then go into the speaker group that’s my height/atmos speakers and I only raise those amounts (using my mouse I drag all the points up 3-4dB so it follows the same correction as the rest of the speakers but just louder). I am doing this to make my heights still the same as the Dirac correction but a bit louder.

I was under the impression that if the crossover is the same (80 Hz) it won’t change how much is being redirected it will just be louder....

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post #64 of 620 Old 04-23-2020, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks again @markus767 .

I just meant that once I run a project and the Dirac makes the correction I then go into the speaker group that’s my height/atmos speakers and I only raise those amounts (using my mouse I drag all the points up 3-4dB so it follows the same correction as the rest of the speakers but just louder). I am doing this to make my heights still the same as the Dirac correction but a bit louder.

I was under the impression that if the crossover is the same (80 Hz) it won’t change how much is being redirected it will just be louder....
Exactly, "it won’t change how much is being redirected" and that's the reason why you don't want to use that approach...

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post #65 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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First version of "Configure microphone and setting speaker levels" tutorial is online:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-...speaker-levels

Markus

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post #66 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
First version of "Configure microphone and setting speaker levels" tutorial is online:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-...speaker-levels
Very well written, Markus. I am sure this guide will be very helpful for those having difficulty with what has seemed to be a problem area. If I may, I have several questions on steps that are not completely clear to me. Keep in mind that I am not a Dirac 2.0 user, so I can't actually try and figure out the answers for myself. I ask them only because others may have the same questions.

1. Microphone level calibration: You say "Move mic gain slider up as long as background noise level stays below the -50dB mark." I suspect one would read the indicator at the bottom (-47.3 in your example) to determine whether the level is below 50dB. But what is the "100%" indicator next to the number 2 in your example? Does this mean that the mic gain has reached its maximum allowed value?

2. Find softest speaker: You say "Slowly increase "Master output" slider until left speaker plays the noise signal at a comfortable level." "Comfortable level" is subjective, and others may have difficulty determining what you mean. If one had an SPL meter, could you recommend what you mean by comfortable level? Or am I overthinking it? And "Note the softest speaker" is also subjective. What if the softest speaker is not obvious?

3. Level Speakers: You say "Move "Master output" slider up until level of the softest speaker is roughly in the middle of the green zone". I don't see an indicator for the softest speaker showing in the green zone. How does one tell that the -16dB is in the center of the green zone when the master volume is at -25dB? You say "Turn level/gain knob on your subwoofer up until the level is also roughly in the middle of the green zone". What if the setup has multiple subs which were carefully gain-matched prior to starting the calibration? I suspect that one might have to carefully raise the gain controls on each sub, preserving the gain-matching, until the combined sub signal is in the green zone. In my setup, this has been one of the more difficult steps, involving trial-and-error before getting it right. It may be worth a mention, because many users will have multiple subs.

I hope these comments are useful, and thanks again for a nice guide.
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post #67 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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English isn't my mother tongue so any suggestion for improvement is appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Very well written, Markus. I am sure this guide will be very helpful for those having difficulty with what has seemed to be a problem area. If I may, I have several questions on steps that are not completely clear to me. Keep in mind that I am not a Dirac 2.0 user, so I can't actually try and figure out the answers for myself. I ask them only because others may have the same questions.

1. Microphone level calibration: You say "Move mic gain slider up as long as background noise level stays below the -50dB mark." I suspect one would read the indicator at the bottom (-47.3 in your example) to determine whether the level is below 50dB. But what is the "100%" indicator next to the number 2 in your example? Does this mean that the mic gain has reached its maximum allowed value?
Good question. I'm not entirely sure how the numbers are derived. It's probably something provided by the programming tools Dirac is using. There's some virtual 0dB mark plus a usable headroom of 20dB. If I had a different microphone selected in the previous run the whole area below "100%" is gone and the slider can be dragged between 0dB and +20dB. It still seems to work though. I've reported this multiple times. Dirac doesn't seem to care much. Just like Dolby enabled speakers never worked. Hey, it's only been like how many years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
2. Find softest speaker: You say "Slowly increase "Master output" slider until left speaker plays the noise signal at a comfortable level." "Comfortable level" is subjective, and others may have difficulty determining what you mean. If one had an SPL meter, could you recommend what you mean by comfortable level? Or am I overthinking it? And "Note the softest speaker" is also subjective. What if the softest speaker is not obvious?
You're overthinking this. This step is performed just to get an idea how levels differ amongst speakers and derive a point of reference. Comfortable means "no other person in your household showing up with fingers in their ears and WTF in their eyes" while you're performing this step.

"Softest speaker" is the speaker with the lowest level. -30.8dB in my example. It doesn't have to be exact. Plus or minus one dB is inconsequential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
3. Level Speakers: You say "Move "Master output" slider up until level of the softest speaker is roughly in the middle of the green zone". I don't see an indicator for the softest speaker showing in the green zone. How does one tell that the -16dB is in the center of the green zone when the master volume is at -25dB?
The meter will show a bit more detail when the noise signal is actually playing. I just didn't want to include too many images to keep everything to the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You say "Turn level/gain knob on your subwoofer up until the level is also roughly in the middle of the green zone". What if the setup has multiple subs which were carefully gain-matched prior to starting the calibration? I suspect that one might have to carefully raise the gain controls on each sub, preserving the gain-matching, until the combined sub signal is in the green zone. In my setup, this has been one of the more difficult steps, involving trial-and-error before getting it right. It may be worth a mention, because many users will have multiple subs.

I hope these comments are useful, and thanks again for a nice guide.
Multisub is another whole can of worms. For now I look at it as a subwoofer cluster with a single gain knob.
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Last edited by markus767; 04-24-2020 at 09:24 AM.
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post #68 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's an example what "in the middle of the green zone" looks like:

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post #69 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks again @markus767 .

I just meant that once I run a project and the Dirac makes the correction I then go into the speaker group that’️s my height/atmos speakers and I only raise those amounts (using my mouse I drag all the points up 3-4dB so it follows the same correction as the rest of the speakers but just louder). I am doing this to make my heights still the same as the Dirac correction but a bit louder.

I was under the impression that if the crossover is the same (80 Hz) it won’️t change how much is being redirected it will just be louder....
Exactly, "it won’️t change how much is being redirected" and that's the reason why you don't want to use that approach...
So, then how would I go about making a curve that saves my height speakers playing louder then usual (or what Dirac sets it at)?

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post #70 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So, then how would I go about making a curve that saves my height speakers playing louder then usual (or what Dirac sets it at)?
You don't. If you want channels louder than they were mixed then you have to apply gain upstream of bass management.

Markus

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Here's an example what "in the middle of the green zone" looks like:
Perfect, thanks for clarifying.
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post #72 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
First version of "Configure microphone and setting speaker levels" tutorial is online:
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-...speaker-levels
@markus767

Excellent Tutorial.
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post #73 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 12:25 PM
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Cant understand how to try multichannel standalone version for PC (no hardware processor).
Downloaded both Dirac Live software + Processor, but first one doesnt "see" the second.
Or i should buy Processer before use?
And is it possible use Dirac Live + Processor with PCM output inside HDMI (so, that i can use external multichannel DAC after PC)?
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post #74 of 620 Old 04-24-2020, 03:05 PM
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@markus767


I redid my EQ with your tutorial and got great results without clipping in any spots.

Thanks

I also got better results using combined subs(using emotiva's sub combiner).
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post #75 of 620 Old 04-25-2020, 09:10 PM
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Hi All,

I have embarked into DL for the past 3 months. Have not been achieving good results in subwoofer area, fail to achieve the mid bass slam. Went through the placement measurement and I always end up increasing additional 10db in the subwoofer level in the avr. As I understand further, I am suspecting I am doing the wrong setup approach. In the attached chart, sub is not aligning to the main speakers in the impulse response correction.

Hence, I would like to find out from the group here based on my combination of minidsp 2x4 HD and AudioControl M5 using Dirac Live 2.5 for multi sub configuration,

1) Is my understanding wrong?
2) Do we always need to increase so much db for sub?
3) Minidsp is only performance subwoofer level match and time alignment before DL EQ, assuming subwoofer PEQ should be managed by DL
4) DL is the master control that manage subwoofer house curve, impulse response and XO
5) I am connecting the sub using input 1 where the subs are connect to output 1 & 3. Is it fine or I need to use input 1 & 2 and let DL to manage the sub respectively?

Btw I have a challenges of pairing a ported and seal sub together, could that be the reason the impulse is not align?
Dual Sub : Rythmik FV18HP and KK DXD 500

PS: My minidsp purposes is to load BEQ and I have successfully calibrated DL using Markus guide (Kudos to Markus!!!)
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post #76 of 620 Old 04-25-2020, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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@Alvin Goh

I'm having a hard time to understand what you're asking.

You run your AVR's sub out to a miniDSP 2x4 with the 2 subs connected to it? That's fine.
The sub should be aligned to the start of its impulse response curve, not its peak. You'll see that better when you zoom into the IR graph.

L and R show an unusual amount of low frequency energy. What kind of speaker is that?

If you want more bass after calibration use one of the curves linked in post 1.

Markus

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post #77 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 03:00 AM
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@Alvin Goh

I'm having a hard time to understand what you're asking.

You run your AVR's sub out to a miniDSP 2x4 with the 2 subs connected to it? That's fine.
The sub should be aligned to the start of its impulse response curve, not its peak. You'll see that better when you zoom into the IR graph.

L and R show an unusual amount of low frequency energy. What kind of speaker is that?

If you want more bass after calibration use one of the curves linked in post 1.
@markus , sorry to confuse you. I am trying to understand my confusion between AVR DL and minidsp.

BTW I am using the SVS Ultra Tower speaker for my L & R.
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post #78 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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@markus , sorry to confuse you. I am trying to understand my confusion between AVR DL and minidsp.

BTW I am using the SVS Ultra Tower speaker for my L & R.
You connect the two subs to the miniDSP 2x4 and optimize them according to whatever strategy you see fit. Simplest approach would be to use the 2x4 as a Y-splitter. Jerry has compiled a guide which is linked in his sig. After that DL treats the sub cluster as one low frequency source just like there is only one sub connected.

You might want to plug the ports of your SVS Ultra Tower to get rid of the bass boom. Then run DL again.
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post #79 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Pogostovsky View Post
Cant understand how to try multichannel standalone version for PC (no hardware processor).
Downloaded both Dirac Live software + Processor, but first one doesnt "see" the second.
Or i should buy Processer before use?
And is it possible use Dirac Live + Processor with PCM output inside HDMI (so, that i can use external multichannel DAC after PC)?
Are you talking about "Dirac Live Processor for Mac/Windows"? Looks like Dirac somehow forgot to document the tool. Their website is also not really helpful. Guess your best option is to send them a support request at http://helpdesk.dirac.se/

Markus

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post #80 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 04:31 AM
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post #81 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Goh View Post
@markus , sorry to confuse you. I am trying to understand my confusion between AVR DL and minidsp.

BTW I am using the SVS Ultra Tower speaker for my L & R.
You connect the two subs to the miniDSP 2x4 and optimize them according to whatever strategy you see fit. Simplest approach would be to use the 2x4 as a Y-splitter. Jerry has compiled a guide which is linked in his sig. After that DL treats the sub cluster as one low frequency source just like there is only one sub connected.

You might want to plug the ports of your SVS Ultra Tower to get rid of the bass boom. Then run DL again.
It could also be a problem that you are using both a SEALED and a PORTED sub-usually it is a better idea to use one or the other in a dual sub approach

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post #82 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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It could also be a problem that you are using both a SEALED and a PORTED sub-usually it is a better idea to use one or the other in a dual sub approach
What would be the problem?

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
MSO is also an option
It is an option although it can only be of help for very advanced users. The problem is that MSO might optimize only the measurement points and make all other points within the listening area worse. Better wait for the release of Dirac's multisub solution which should be more robust and easier to use.

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Last edited by markus767; 04-26-2020 at 04:40 AM.
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post #84 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
It could also be a problem that you are using both a SEALED and a PORTED sub-usually it is a better idea to use one or the other in a dual sub approach
What would be the problem?
He is using BOTH. Can’t it be almost impossible to get dual subs dialed in together if one is a ported and one is a sealed sub?

Maybe @AustinJerry can tune in on this as it was in the REW or MiniDSP thread that he wrote that.

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post #85 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
MSO is also an option [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
It is an option although it can only be of help for very advanced users. The problem is that MSO might optimize only the measurement points and make all other points within the listening area worse. Better wait for the release of Dirac's multisub solution which should be more robust and easier to use.
So, aside from the cost of upgrading receivers just for the Dirac Multisub option (NAD 758 won’t allow upgrade to that even though people bought it for the future proofing of modules), will the Dirac Multisub make MiniDSPs redundant or not needed anymore for those who have it?

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post #86 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
He is using BOTH. Can’t it be almost impossible to get dual subs dialed in together if one is a ported and one is a sealed sub?
What would be the issue? I don't see any.

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post #87 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
will the Dirac Multisub make MiniDSPs redundant or not needed anymore for those who have it?
Yes. https://www.dirac.com/news/dirac-liv...gement-ces2019

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post #88 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
Here is a quick step by step off the top of my head.

1. Start Dirac and Load your measurements.

2. Dirac should have grouped your speakers into groups. Fronts, Center, Subs, Sides, Rears, Front/top, Back/top etc...

a. You can leave them as is or drag them into your own groups.

b. The easiest way for you would probably be to drag all the speakers into one group and then subs into another group. So that would give you just two groups.

3. Load the filter you want into both groups.

4. Since you don't like what it is doing to your highs. Drag the Right curtain to the right and that will stop the EQing above what ever you pick.

5. For the subs, drag the Right curtain down to your crossover.

6. Dirac will auto optimize everytime you do a adjustment(someone can again correct me if I am wrong)

7. Load the Dirac Filter into one of your slots on the final step into the Receiver/Preamp



That should be it and now just test it , see if you like it and if not just go back and try loading another filter or create your own.
Thanks Markus, Carbo and Jerry for all your good support.

I have applied the “+4dB low frequency boost” target curve. Please can you recommend what should be the SPL value/reading for the subs (2) post using this target curve. (The sub level in the AVR menu is showing -0.5db which reads around 95db on SPL)
How much should this read.
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post #89 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shiva Nair View Post
Thanks Markus, Carbo and Jerry for all your good support.

I have applied the “+4dB low frequency boost” target curve. Please can you recommend what should be the SPL value/reading for the subs (2) post using this target curve. (The sub level in the AVR menu is showing -0.5db which reads around 95db on SPL)
How much should this read.
This depends on the type of test signal. Furthermore DL doesn't calibrate to a specific SPL. Take measurements with REW and you'll see if everything's ok.

Markus

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post #90 of 620 Old 04-26-2020, 07:05 AM
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A somewhat related question, I know you mentioned it before markus, but couldn't remember where/when - what pink noise freq range should someone use to get an accuarte SPL measurement from speakers (and subs)
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