AVR or SOL? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-03-2020, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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AVR or SOL?

I'm looking for a 7.2.4 receiver with 11 channels of power built in, two discrete subwoofer outs and Dirac. Does this exist/ have any chance of existing soon?

NAD T758 - 7 channels power, 1 sub out
NAD T778 - 9 channels power, 1 sub out (2 Y)

Arcam AVR390 - 7 channels power, 1 sub out (2 Y)
Arcam AVR10 - 7 channels power, 1 sub out (2 Y)

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Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
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post #2 of 14 Old 06-03-2020, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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On a related note, does anybody know whether Pioneer will be implementing Dirac on their new AVRs since they are now distributors for Dirac?

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Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
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post #3 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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NAD is a no-go. The frequency response is abysmal. It's hard enough to get bass below 20hz without your AVR fighting you. This is the worst measurement of any AVR (or any electronics) I've ever seen. This is pretty much on-par with a tape deck from the 80's.


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 06-11-2020 at 04:33 PM.
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post #4 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 04:38 PM
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I would seriously consider the forthcoming Denon X6700. 11 channels of amplification and HDMI 2.1. You can probably get one in July.
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 04:54 PM
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The x6700 still has Audyssey XT 32 so no Dirac as the OP requested. It checks all the other boxes though

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post #6 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post
I would seriously consider the forthcoming Denon X6700. 11 channels of amplification and HDMI 2.1. You can probably get one in July.

The X3600 just topped the charts for AVRs tested here in both processing and amps:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.12676/



I'm now actually considering maybe getting the 6700 as an "amp" and adding a miniDSP Dirac solution like the next mini AVR. Just waiting to see if it will incorporate Dirac BM, and at what price.


The X6700 has WAY better features and power than any of the current Dirac offerings (and discrete subs).

I would like to try XT32, but the general consensus seems to be that Dirac is miles ahead, even before BM.


The Arcam AVR10 just got tested, too. Even worse performance than the AVR390.
Dirac seems to be a crutch to justify very expensive but poorly performing equipment right now. It's a shame.


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 06-11-2020 at 07:15 PM.
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post #7 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against the new Anthem MRX 1140. ARC Genesis is supposed to be second best to Dirac, but without the $450 - $600USD entrance fee.


There's plenty of room here for a big sexy full color screen; hopefully these screens last longer than the 2 -3 weeks some people are getting out of the screen in their NAD T778s
I like to hang on to stuff for a long time, so I'd be bummed if the screen lasted less than 10 years.


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 06-11-2020 at 08:50 PM.
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
The x6700 still has Audyssey XT 32 so no Dirac as the OP requested. It checks all the other boxes though

In his books and AES papers Floyd Toole makes excellent arguments based both on extensive tests and theory, for only using equalization below about 300Hz. My experience is that this is good advice. There are excellent reasons, for not correcting above the Schrodinger frequency.

This makes the choice of equalization much less critical. Denon/Marantz gear seems to just work; no adventures. The latest Denon gear promises greatly improve preamp performance and will be hard to beat. The ASR measurements of the X3600H were a real eye opener.
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post #9 of 14 Old 06-11-2020, 10:29 PM
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Amir over at ASR seems to only think Denon is the only company that makes good products.

Also after a lot of his measurements, he says, "Clearly there are many sources of interference in the output of the front left and right DACs which I tested in this review. Fortunately not an audible concern."

and

"The filter needs to have higher attenuation to kill that 47 and 49 kHz spikes in order to improve the previous test. Fortunately these tones are not audible so not a real concern."
So all the other brands, except Denon, with the crappy measurements, which aren't really audible and not a real concern, get panned? Where are the listening tests, using speakers, in a listening room?
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-12-2020, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum7 View Post
Amir over at ASR...

...admits he is a dealer for Harmon group so JBL and Arcam, etc... but the AVR10 (and AVR390 before that) got roasted pretty hard.

I agree that unless something is really out of whack, SINAD and jitter and so forth really should be inaudible. Frequency response within the audible range definitely is audible though, by definition.

Admittedly, the only test that really matters in the end is where the rubber meets the road; set up in your room with your speakers and your ears. I don't have that luxury. I have to pick one blind (deaf?) for a s*** load of money and live with it for the next 10 years or so. Amirm's tests give me data that is easily compared one on one. He gives a convincing impression of bias-free truly scientific and repeatable measurements. I'm very grateful for his work.

It's either that, or read "reputable" reviews where every piece of gear "easily earns our top recommendation for PERFECT rhythm, pace and timing... toe-tappingly good"
That's definitely the kind of gear I need... on my current setup John Bonham and Neil Peart's time signatures are all over the place!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html

Last edited by bimmaguy; 06-12-2020 at 03:04 AM.
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post #11 of 14 Old 06-12-2020, 09:55 AM
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There's been tons of discussion in the JBL '55 and other threads about this, but the upshot is, if you're an arm chair engineer and care about measurements regardless of their audibility, read Amir's reviews.

If you care about the SQ, go elsewhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum7 View Post
Amir over at ASR seems to only think Denon is the only company that makes good products.

Also after a lot of his measurements, he says, "Clearly there are many sources of interference in the output of the front left and right DACs which I tested in this review. Fortunately not an audible concern."

and

"The filter needs to have higher attenuation to kill that 47 and 49 kHz spikes in order to improve the previous test. Fortunately these tones are not audible so not a real concern."
So all the other brands, except Denon, with the crappy measurements, which aren't really audible and not a real concern, get panned? Where are the listening tests, using speakers, in a listening room?

Noah
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post #12 of 14 Old 06-12-2020, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
If you care about the SQ, go elsewhere.

I'd love some recommendations of where to go. I honestly can't remember the last time I read a bad review on any of the review sites.

Even a Sherwood receiver that puts out 6 watts per channel in surround mode got a good review.

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Subs are like pizzas: you get way more good stuff with the big ones.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...uxl-build.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-overture.html
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post #13 of 14 Old 06-12-2020, 02:14 PM
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Forget the review sites; peruse the forums for threads on the contenders and go by the experiences of owners who have heard/owned/compared them.

Noah
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post #14 of 14 Old 06-12-2020, 03:15 PM
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Actually, read the Forums for reviews on reliability and maybe usability, and take the subjective remarks on sound quality with a grain of salt as we all hear things differently.
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