Need audio extractor with DTS-MA/7.1/Atmos Hdmi 2.0/HDR help - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Need audio extractor with DTS-MA/7.1/Atmos Hdmi 2.0/HDR help

Hello and thank you for taking a few minutes or more to review this inquiry albeit you're in a similar situation and seeking an answer or you have the answers to offer.

General relevant setup:

-Pioneer Sc-75 which supports 4K/30 HDMI 1.4.

-Vizio PX-Quantum (? Higher end version) with HDR10/Dolby V HDMI 2.0 4k/60

-Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 Hdmi 2.0 with all necessary format support

[Side note: until Nvidia gets this ****ty coding in order I do NOT recommend acquiring the Shield. It has potential, the AI-upcaling is VERY good for animated/Pixar type and pretty good for standard movies, but in the meantime, f-you Nvidia. Way too many headaches.]

Goal:

I want HDR 4k 2160p getting to my TV and all lossless formats getting to my receiver via HDMI.

I have tried this unit with limited success: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P5W7BQ3..._SCV2EbVY8D5FB

Problem is that device keeps trying to downscale to 1080. Under certain conditions (I can identify then if its useful) I can get 4k/30 but it usually reverts to 1080 by the time I get to kodi or every time I restart the system which is annoying as hell. Its also very slow to switch sources during playback and many times causes the shield to hang or needing a restart even.

It also will not pass HDR as I think its removed during the downscale process to match the hdmi 1.4 of the receiver. This is a major downfall I'm not okay with.

I found this device: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DBB31HP..._05V2EbE425KGM

Supposedly it will fix the issue and achieve my goals but the price I simply cannot swallow. I'd sooner buy a broken SC-89 and pull the HDMI board and hope they swap into the sc-75 though Pioneer couldn't answer if the SC-85/87/89 series with hdmi 2.0 will support HDR.

Questions:

1. Can someone please recommend a non-outrageously priced device that will send lossless formats to my HDMI 1.4 AVR device while sending 4k/60 with Hdr10/Dolby vision to my TV?

*Important note: I do not have individual channel inputs via RCA, so those devices wont work.

2. The Hdmi ports on my unit are quite loose...okay really loose, I bought unit broken. Any suggestions or devices to secure them better? I do have a 3d printer if anyone knows some support structures/fasteners.

3. Probably need a separate thread for this but does anyone know if a newer HDMI boards from pioneer will swap to older generations, ie an SC-85 to an SC-75. I could loosely find the answer but not without extensively looking into the schematics and even then im not sure how the firmware will like it. If anyone has tried this please let me know. Only major difference between the devices is Hdmi boards 1.4 vs 2.0 and Atmos support. Perhaps the Hdmi in conjunction with the front panel display which has the controller processors would work?

Rant: I hope HDCP/HDMI standards personnel (the greedy people at the top) get slapped in the face by a BBC, releatedly, unless that's their thing then i guess I hope it never happens? All the money you're forcing people to throw away is shameful. You are a drain on our natural resources and quite literally the time in our lives we spend working to buy all these replacements. In the words of the great Randy Marsh:

"HEY.

...**** you!"
Cappytanno is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 08:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 2,047
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappytanno View Post
Hello and thank you for taking a few minutes or more to review this inquiry albeit you're in a similar situation and seeking an answer or you have the answers to offer.

General relevant setup:

-Pioneer Sc-75 which supports 4K/30 HDMI 1.4.

-Vizio PX-Quantum (? Higher end version) with HDR10/Dolby V HDMI 2.0 4k/60

-Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 Hdmi 2.0 with all necessary format support

[Side note: until Nvidia gets this ****ty coding in order I do NOT recommend acquiring the Shield. It has potential, the AI-upcaling is VERY good for animated/Pixar type and pretty good for standard movies, but in the meantime, f-you Nvidia. Way too many headaches.]

Goal:

I want HDR 4k 2160p getting to my TV and all lossless formats getting to my receiver via HDMI.

I have tried this unit with limited success: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P5W7BQ3..._SCV2EbVY8D5FB

Problem is that device keeps trying to downscale to 1080. Under certain conditions (I can identify then if its useful) I can get 4k/30 but it usually reverts to 1080 by the time I get to kodi or every time I restart the system which is annoying as hell. Its also very slow to switch sources during playback and many times causes the shield to hang or needing a restart even.

It also will not pass HDR as I think its removed during the downscale process to match the hdmi 1.4 of the receiver. This is a major downfall I'm not okay with.

I found this device: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DBB31HP..._05V2EbE425KGM

Supposedly it will fix the issue and achieve my goals but the price I simply cannot swallow. I'd sooner buy a broken SC-89 and pull the HDMI board and hope they swap into the sc-75 though Pioneer couldn't answer if the SC-85/87/89 series with hdmi 2.0 will support HDR.

Questions:

1. Can someone please recommend a non-outrageously priced device that will send lossless formats to my HDMI 1.4 AVR device while sending 4k/60 with Hdr10/Dolby vision to my TV?

*Important note: I do not have individual channel inputs via RCA, so those devices wont work.

2. The Hdmi ports on my unit are quite loose...okay really loose, I bought unit broken. Any suggestions or devices to secure them better? I do have a 3d printer if anyone knows some support structures/fasteners.

3. Probably need a separate thread for this but does anyone know if a newer HDMI boards from pioneer will swap to older generations, ie an SC-85 to an SC-75. I could loosely find the answer but not without extensively looking into the schematics and even then im not sure how the firmware will like it. If anyone has tried this please let me know. Only major difference between the devices is Hdmi boards 1.4 vs 2.0 and Atmos support. Perhaps the Hdmi in conjunction with the front panel display which has the controller processors would work?

Rant: I hope HDCP/HDMI standards personnel (the greedy people at the top) get slapped in the face by a BBC, releatedly, unless that's their thing then i guess I hope it never happens? All the money you're forcing people to throw away is shameful. You are a drain on our natural resources and quite literally the time in our lives we spend working to buy all these replacements. In the words of the great Randy Marsh:

"HEY.

...**** you!"
check this out: https://www.essenceelectrostatic.com...i-channel-dac/

Main: Sony XBR75900E, Denon AVR-x4400, Denon POA-5200 (L/R(a) Goldenear supersat 60, (b)FW Boston acoustic Bravo 2. C Ascend Acoustics Duo,
SSR DIYSG Volt 6v2. RSS Volt 6, Atmos(.4) Boston acoustics soundware
HSU research ULS -15, Episode ES-IW-Dual 8 / Monitor audio IWA 250 amp 2nd Rm: Visio E55, Denon avr730H, Boston Acoustics CR8, cr400 sub.
smithsabom is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
TY but as I mentioned I do not have channel inputs for this style.
Cappytanno is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 08:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 2,047
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappytanno View Post
TY but as I mentioned I do not have channel inputs for this style.
sorry, missed that. thry also have this one: https://www.essenceelectrostatic.com...t/hdacc-ii-4k/

Main: Sony XBR75900E, Denon AVR-x4400, Denon POA-5200 (L/R(a) Goldenear supersat 60, (b)FW Boston acoustic Bravo 2. C Ascend Acoustics Duo,
SSR DIYSG Volt 6v2. RSS Volt 6, Atmos(.4) Boston acoustics soundware
HSU research ULS -15, Episode ES-IW-Dual 8 / Monitor audio IWA 250 amp 2nd Rm: Visio E55, Denon avr730H, Boston Acoustics CR8, cr400 sub.
smithsabom is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Looks like a great device but I'm looking just to extract audio and splitting it to another source. Think as if it was an rca y-split cable to oversimplify things. I don't want anything with additional processing, the 9 dacs in my av unit will handle that 🙂. I'm looking sub-$50 if possible unless theres an rca--> hdmi cable then your first suggestion may work - I'm not sure why other signals are required though.

They really make this way more difficult than it has to be
Cappytanno is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 11:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Worf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,569
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 946 Post(s)
Liked: 682
Sorry, the only thing that will do what you want is a HDFury AVR key. Few people have such a need which is why these are very niche devices. You cannot do a board swap - the units differ too much internally.

As for your rant - I don't understand. If you want 4k, you can't use hardware designed for 1080p. HDMI 2.0 nearly doubles the bandwidth available over hdmi 1.4 allowing for 4k resolutions, while HDMI 2.1 increase it 2.5 times (HDMI 1.4 supports up to 10gbps, HDMI 2.0 brings it to 18Gbps, HDMI 2.1 is nearly 48Gbps). Each revision requires new hardware and chips to handle the increased bandwidth if you want the benefits.

And HDMI 1.4 4k support is very iffy. It was a hack mode that did all sorts of tricks to reduce bandwidth, including using yuv420. This was an attempt to check off a box and very few sources actually support this mode. It was typically used by up scaling players because they worked natively in yuv420. HDMI 2.0 supports full yuv444 or rgb888 at 4k, and HDR is supported at lower frame rates.
Worf is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 06-05-2020, 11:52 PM
Senior Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappytanno View Post
Looks like a great device but I'm looking just to extract audio and splitting it to another source. Think as if it was an rca y-split cable to oversimplify things. I don't want anything with additional processing, the 9 dacs in my av unit will handle that 🙂. I'm looking sub-$50 if possible unless theres an rca--> hdmi cable then your first suggestion may work - I'm not sure why other signals are required though.

They really make this way more difficult than it has to be
Easiest thing to do is get a newer AVR that supports HDMI 2.0 with HDR passthrough (and Atmos/DTS:X if you want more than 5.1). For the money a good splitter costs you're better off doing that. You can find refurb AVR at cheaper costs or could consider 2nd hand off eBay or some 2nd hand board.

The other option which will not be the greatest, you can hook the Shield to TV and use ARC on your TV to send the audio to the AVR. But without eARC you're limited to 1mbps audio.
AlexLac is online now  
post #8 of 10 Old 06-06-2020, 03:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mashie Saldana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 2,627
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1486 Post(s)
Liked: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappytanno View Post
-Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 Hdmi 2.0 with all necessary format support

[Side note: until Nvidia gets this ****ty coding in order I do NOT recommend acquiring the Shield. It has potential, the AI-upcaling is VERY good for animated/Pixar type and pretty good for standard movies, but in the meantime, f-you Nvidia. Way too many headaches.]
Nothing wrong with the Nvidia Shield TV, I have a few here and they work perfectly.

Now upgrade your legacy AVR to something that is HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compliant and you will be fine.

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Input : Nvidia Shield TV, Panasonic DMP-UB400
Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Panasonic TX65EZ952B, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
Mashie Saldana is online now  
post #9 of 10 Old 06-06-2020, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Sorry, the only thing that will do what you want is a HDFury AVR key. Few people have such a need which is why these are very niche devices. You cannot do a board swap - the units differ too much internally.

As for your rant - I don't understand. If you want 4k, you can't use hardware designed for 1080p. HDMI 2.0 nearly doubles the bandwidth available over hdmi 1.4 allowing for 4k resolutions, while HDMI 2.1 increase it 2.5 times (HDMI 1.4 supports up to 10gbps, HDMI 2.0 brings it to 18Gbps, HDMI 2.1 is nearly 48Gbps). Each revision requires new hardware and chips to handle the increased bandwidth if you want the benefits.

And HDMI 1.4 4k support is very iffy. It was a hack mode that did all sorts of tricks to reduce bandwidth, including using yuv420. This was an attempt to check off a box and very few sources actually support this mode. It was typically used by up scaling players because they worked natively in yuv420. HDMI 2.0 supports full yuv444 or rgb888 at 4k, and HDR is supported at lower frame rates.
Thanks for the tip on the board swap, saves me a lot of time and money.

I'll be trying this device, I'll report back if it does the handshaking correctly: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...?skuId=5986903

The rant is moreso in regards to audio separation. The capabilities are there to support the audio then it should be able to handle that option in the case of avr equipment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLac View Post
Nothing wrong with the Nvidia Shield TV, I have a few here and they work perfectly.

Now upgrade your legacy AVR to something that is HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compliant and you will be fine.
Interesting. I have lots of quirks with mine, especially with dropped frames/screen juddering every 5 seconds regarding refresh rates, though I think this may be a kodi issue now that I got plex up and running again last night. It doesn't fix the constant issues with Hulu and a few other quirks I consistently run into, I also want to cut out that Netflix button, so many accidental presses.

With 2.1 around the corner and the cost of equipment, not worthwhile to me, especially in this job market.
Cappytanno is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 06-06-2020, 11:11 PM
Senior Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappytanno View Post
Thanks for the tip on the board swap, saves me a lot of time and money.

I'll be trying this device, I'll report back if it does the handshaking correctly: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...?skuId=5986903

The rant is moreso in regards to audio separation. The capabilities are there to support the audio then it should be able to handle that option in the case of avr equipment.

Interesting. I have lots of quirks with mine, especially with dropped frames/screen juddering every 5 seconds regarding refresh rates, though I think this may be a kodi issue now that I got plex up and running again last night. It doesn't fix the constant issues with Hulu and a few other quirks I consistently run into, I also want to cut out that Netflix button, so many accidental presses.

With 2.1 around the corner and the cost of equipment, not worthwhile to me, especially in this job market.
You quoted me but the text was someone else's, no worries though
Nothing wrong with trying more devices that claim to do what you want, as long as you can return it if it doesn't. BB has easy returns so you have nothing to lose.

You make a fair point about spending in the current situation. I hope this splitter works for you. What I was saying is if only something as expensive HDFury will give you what you need, you may as well buy a more modern AVR. The new Denon ones are coming this month I believe, and unless you really need 2.1 you can find older models for reasonable prices. They may drop prices of old ones when the new ones come out, refubs, 2nd hand etc.

As for Shield, I don't have one but from what I read everything you describe is known issues, and they are NV issues not Kodi. If you can install those streaming apps on your smart TV instead of Shield, I think it will be much better. You can find good but cheap boxes that will work like a charm with CoreELEC/Kodi for offline files (they don't have official Netflix etc support), much better than Kodi on Android.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a guide on how to disable the NF button on the remote. As for the other issues I believe some have been fixed, did you install all the updates and hotfixes?
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=332180 -- check out the 2019 SHIELD Experience Upgrade 8.1.1 there
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...eleased-22620/

Last edited by AlexLac; 06-06-2020 at 11:25 PM.
AlexLac is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off