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post #1 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Class D Stereo Amp for Whole Day Music

I've been using the SMSL SA-98E for whole day background music since the pandemic started forcing majority of us to work from home. It serves its purpose but I wish the sound could be better and cleaner. Looking for Class D amp to conserve power and minimize heat. I sit 22 feet away from the speakers that the amp drives, but I only need the SPL to get to 60 db at listening position. A subwoofer handles the lows from 80Hz down, so I don't demand a lot from the amp.

Any suggestions for music-worthy class D stereo amp? Preferably 100 watts/ch at 8 ohms. Budget is $500. I'm open to DIY options. I want to avoid chi-fi amps similar to what I already use for reasons stated above. I don't need an integrated amp as I have means to control volume from the source. I own a number of decent class AB amps & integrated amps but I don't want to use them for the whole day.
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post #2 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 02:40 PM
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Take a look at Audiophonics Hypex NC252 amp. There’s a thread here on AVS where the owner reviews the amp. Hypex amps have had great measurements on audioScienceReview, so they should perform exceptionally well (at any price point)
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post #3 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrieze01 View Post
Take a look at Audiophonics Hypex NC252 amp. There’s a thread here on AVS where the owner reviews the amp. Hypex amps have had great measurements on audioScienceReview, so they should perform exceptionally well (at any price point)
Thanks.
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post #4 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
Thanks.

Link below.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power...m-p-14278.html
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post #5 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
I've been using the SMSL SA-98E for whole day background music since the pandemic started forcing majority of us to work from home. It serves its purpose but I wish the sound could be better and cleaner. Looking for Class D amp to conserve power and minimize heat. I sit 22 feet away from the speakers that the amp drives, but I only need the SPL to get to 60 db at listening position. A subwoofer handles the lows from 80Hz down, so I don't demand a lot from the amp.

Any suggestions for music-worthy class D stereo amp? Preferably 100 watts/ch at 8 ohms. Budget is $500. I'm open to DIY options. I want to avoid chi-fi amps similar to what I already use for reasons stated above. I don't need an integrated amp as I have means to control volume from the source. I own a number of decent class AB amps & integrated amps but I don't want to use them for the whole day.
https://vtvamplifier.com/product/vtv...ncore-nc252mp/
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post #6 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebrieze01 View Post
Unfortunately their products are not available until 7/30/2020 and would take 4 additional weeks (to build?) and few more weeks to ship to USA. By that time, I'm not sure if the pandemic will be over or I'll be dead :-(
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post #7 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
These look promising for my situation - assembled and shipped from USA. So many options to choose from and I have no idea which model to choose (Hypex-NCore/NCoreMp/UcD, Purifi, Pascal). Thanks for the info, it's a good starting point. I need to do more research.
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post #8 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 06:37 PM
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@Gyroscopics , well it was the one that fit your budget, perfectly! You really can’t beat it for the price. Another good point is that if you decided you wanted to sell it a year from now, it’ll like retain much of its value.
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post #9 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
@Gyroscopics , well it was the one that fit your budget, perfectly! You really can’t beat it for the price. Another good point is that if you decided you wanted to sell it a year from now, it’ll like retain much of its value.
I went through their website. Most of the base models fit my budget. Any suggestion which one to pick?
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post #10 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 07:17 PM
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Hypex (and Purifi, Pascal, ICEpower, etc) makes the amplifier modules and power supplies which is the brains and muscle of the amp. Assemblers like VTV, Audiophonics and others like Nord and Apollon etc, purchase these modules put them in a box and sell the finished product. This is very similar to Dell and HP purchasing the CPU from Intel, and selling you the finished PC.

From the module makers Purifi is the most advanced and has the best measurements, but Purifi amps are generally more expensive. Hypex NCore is next in line, with many options to choose from. The NCore NC252 (or is it 250?) is the best fit for your price and needs. Hence it was suggested. The other manufacturers (ICEPower etc) are in similar price brackets but don’t measure as well.

Hypex uCD is older tech. NCore is the successor to UCD and Purifi is the successor to NCore - the main designer (Bruno Putzeys) left Hypex to form Purifi. Bruno has been the pioneer and at the leading edge of class D design for many decades.
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post #11 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrieze01 View Post
Hypex (and Purifi, Pascal, ICEpower, etc) ...
Thanks! That info saved me a lot of Googling. I went thru their FAQs but didn't help much as I'm a class D noob. I own a few class D amps for headphones (Drop THX789 and JDS Labs Atom) but not for home stereo. I had always been a class AB advocate and own a few budget amps (Parasound HINT, A23, Nad 375 Bee). But that Nad is slowly dying on me. Class D is greek to me. I bought the SMSL SA-98E on a whim because it was half the price at Drop (~$70). Thanks for all the input.
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post #12 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
I went through their website. Most of the base models fit my budget. Any suggestion which one to pick?

Well it really depends on your budget. Most of the hypex units will likely retain their value for a bit. But at your stated budget, I don't think you'll find a better deal for the 252. If you wanted to go crazy, you could get the nc500, but that's a few hundred more (or, in between with the 502, which would likely leave you some good headroom). ASR has reviews of several of the amps (not the actual brand, but the hypex amps). I believe it has all three of the ones just mentioned (the 252, the 502, and the nc500). I wouldn't buy the additional add on stuff for now--just get the most hypex you can get. If you want to fiddle with adding op amps, do that down-the-road (which, as he states on the website, he can do). Another brand worth considering, but is probably 5-10 percent more is the Nord Acoustics amps. That's probably the route I'll be going in the next month or so. I feel real good about these amps though because of their value retention. If you look them up used, you'll find that they do not last long on the market. So, they're low risk (makes it more fun to experiment I suppose). Here's the Nord page:


https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/


He (i.e., Collin, the owner) has a similar 252, but it is a little over $100 more. However, when you get into the NC500 range, it'll jump up a bit in price. Because of the low risk factor, I say buy a little higher--you can always sell it later without losing much.
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post #13 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrieze01 View Post
The NCore NC252 (or is it 250?) is the best fit for your price and needs. Hence it was suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
Well it really depends on your budget. Most of the hypex units will likely retain their value for a bit. But at your stated budget, I don't think you'll find a better deal for the 252. If you wanted to go crazy, you could get the nc500, but that's a few hundred more (or, in between with the 502, which would likely leave you some good headroom).
Thanks I'll go for the NC502MP if it becomes in-stock tomorrow (6/30/2020) as stated on the VTV website.
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post #14 of 32 Old 06-29-2020, 11:37 PM
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XTZ Edge A2-300 is a good class D stereo amplifier.

https://www.xtzsound.com/product/edge-a2-300

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post #15 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 05:43 AM
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Some other things to consider from the “assembler” (VTV, Nord, XTZ etc) -

Does it have XLR, RCA or both types of inputs. By default these units tend to have only XLR, with RCA being an add on. I see your SMSL was RCA.

Is it “always on”, Auto On/Off or Does it have a 12v trigger (useful if connecting the amp to an AVR or Dac with trigger output). If it doesn’t specifically say anything, it’s probably always on. These units have very low no load power consumption, so not the end of the world - but something to be aware of.

Does the unit have adjustable gain settings. This is good for matching the amp with different types of AVR’s, processors or Dacs/preamps. When unmatched, you could end up with the amp either being overdriven (noise/hiss) or underdriven (not enough volume and only being able to use a portion of the amps power).

By default these amps have 26-27dB gain, as opposed to THX standard of 29dB.

if you tell us the “output sensitivity” of your Dac/preamp, and whether that is XLR or RCA that will help. It will be something like “nominal 1 V rms, max 5V rms. The amp should have a closely matching “input sensitivity”. Note that “Gain” is derived from the input sensitivity. So adjustable gain, is really adjustable input sensitivity.

The vendors on my radar are Nord, Apollon, VTV and Audiophonics. Nord is the the most well known, and has a US distribution option. VTV is new in this space, and seems to have the best prices. Now that you’ve determined the module (NC502 MP), I would look at all the vendors, and compare prices (exclude vat, include shipping) for that module along with paying attention to things like the above and then decide the right option.

As indicated in the other post, don’t worry about the upsell for custom input buffers etc. the standard hypex ones are extremely good, and you can add custom ones later if needed. Actually, I think the “xxxMP” modules don’t allow custom input buffers anyway, so may be a moot point.
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post #16 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
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XTZ Edge A2-300 is a good class D stereo amplifier.

https://www.xtzsound.com/product/edge-a2-300
"...vanishingly small power consumption (up to 90% efficiency and 0,27W in standby mode)..."


That's a bit misleading IMO; 90% efficiency is at full power, and standby is essentially off, i.e. asleep with no sound.

Perhaps you should rethink the entire premise, as you may only be saving pennies per day in electricity.

Several years back when I was researching class D amps, their idle consumption was about 7W for a 100W module.

The last couple of receivers I had idled at about 90W for seven amp channels and a power hungry HDMI board.

Let's say 20W for the HDMI board, so 10W/ch for the amps, so 6W difference.

Running 12 hr/day and for $.20/kW-h, that's $.43/mo more.

I just checked my Audiosource Amp 1 stereo amp for my garage system with my KillAWatt, and it uses 16W at background level, so even closer to class D idle levels.

That's assuming idle powers haven't gone down, but even if they've been halved there's not much to be saved.

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post #17 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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"...vanishingly small power consumption (up to 90% efficiency and 0,27W in standby mode)..."


That's a bit misleading IMO; 90% efficiency is at full power, and standby is essentially off, i.e. asleep with no sound.

Perhaps you should rethink the entire premise, as you may only be saving pennies per day in electricity.

Several years back when I was researching class D amps, their idle consumption was about 7W for a 100W module.

The last couple of receivers I had idled at about 90W for seven amp channels and a power hungry HDMI board.

Let's say 20W for the HDMI board, so 10W/ch for the amps, so 6W difference.

Running 12 hr/day and for $.20/kW-h, that's $.43/mo more.

I just checked my Audiosource Amp 1 stereo amp for my garage system with my KillAWatt, and it uses 16W at background level, so even closer to class D idle levels.

That's assuming idle powers haven't gone down, but even if they've been halved there's not much to be saved.
The A23 manual mentions the standby power but not idle power

A23:
Standby: 25 Watts
Full Power into 4ohms: 700 Watts

The newer A23+ has better consumption ratings, but I don't own this.

A23+:
Standby:<1 Watt
Idle (no music playing): 75 Watts
Typical Listening levels: 125 Watts

True, the cost of buying class-D amp with equivalent (or better) sound quality may not offset the power consumption savings. But excluded from the specs above is the heat generated by the class-AB amps which add up to my cooling expenses. Decision, decision, decision.
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post #18 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 11:32 AM
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Dunno why you cite the apparently power-hungry A23.

Background levels will add insignificantly to power consumption.

Heat generated is not excluded, it's the direct effect of power consumption.

Noah
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post #19 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 11:47 AM
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Anybody think these D's are overpriced? Look at it, a handful of components. Class D's are nothing new, car audio are by necessity, class D's. Is as if they making bell bottoms chick again. But true new D's batter than old D's, but that's to be expected.
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post #20 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Dunno why you cite the apparently power-hungry A23.
Because that's the least power hungry class AB amp I own.

My next least power hungry classAB amp is the HINT.

HINT:
Power Requirement
Standby: 0.5 watts
Idling power: 70 watts
Maximum: 750 watts

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post #21 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 12:21 PM
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You started off with wanting to buy a more efficient amp.

You can do it with A/B for less money than D.

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post #22 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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You started off with wanting to buy a more efficient amp.

You can do it with A/B for less money than D.
Agreed. But I also wanted an improvement from my current chi-fi class D. And my current standard is relative to the class AB amps I already own. That's why these guys suggested audiophile level class D amps.
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post #23 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 01:35 PM
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Fair enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyroscopics View Post
Agreed. But I also wanted an improvement from my current chi-fi class D. And my current standard is relative to the class AB amps I already own. That's why these guys suggested audiophile level class D amps.
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post #24 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 06:02 PM
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How about this simple MONOPRICE? 200w and very affordable. Am not endorsing this box, it just that Monoprice has that fair deal reputation. Read the reviews.

Last edited by MrBobb; 06-30-2020 at 06:09 PM.
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post #25 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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How about this simple MONOPRICE? 200w and very affordable. Am not endorsing this box, it just that Monoprice has that fair deal reputation. Read the reviews.
Some reviews have not been favorable. I don't think it would be much improvement from the chi-fi options similar to what I use. If only Monoprice offers similar class D amp under Monolith product line, perhaps made by ATI like their class AB Monolith amps. That would be interesting.
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post #26 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 06:41 PM
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@Gyroscopics , I guess it wasn’t available today? You might try emailing the guy. I forget his name, but evidently pretty friendly.
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post #27 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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@Gyroscopics , I guess it wasn’t available today? You might try emailing the guy. I forget his name, but evidently pretty friendly.
Yes I emailed him and replied he anticipates some parts to arrive in a couple of weeks.
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Yes I emailed him and replied he anticipates some parts to arrive in a couple of weeks.
Ouch.
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post #29 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 08:10 PM
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The beauty of my SMSL is it comes with a headphone jack as well, it's pretty annoying how much these cost and most of them not only have no headphone jack but use XLRs as well. (It doesn't have to be anything special, I just don't want to have to switch devices all the time)
Reminds me of my Fiio Headphone Amp with "modules" for balanced headphones, who on earth has Balanced headphones?

How many people even buy higher-end headphones? Much less getting them re-cabled for a balanced input? On a $300 portable Amp

Makes me think I should just look for an outlet Outlaw Stereo Receiver and call it my endgame amp.

Kef Q100 - Klipsch RP-160M - Elac B5 - BS22 - SVS SB1000 - Monoprice 9723 - VSX-1124 - RX-V675 - 40'' 4K Sammy - 55'' 4K HiSense
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post #30 of 32 Old 06-30-2020, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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How many people even buy higher-end headphones? Much less getting them re-cabled for a balanced input? On a $300 portable Amp

Makes me think I should just look for an outlet Outlaw Stereo Receiver and call it my endgame amp.
I have three headphones which are balanced (XLR) cable compatible - Focal Elex, HD600, and HD6XX. They don't need to be re-cabled in order to use balanced amp. Their cables are detachable and swappable. In fact the Elex comes with balanced and single-ended cable OOB. No need to buy one. Cheap balanced cables for Sennheisers are widely available at Amazon.

But I don't know how your post is related to the topic. Thanks for the input though.
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