Pseudo-Official 3805 Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 2692 Old 03-24-2004, 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by cabber
Could you elaborate a bit on that? I'm very interested in your thoughts. Thanks.

My thoughts:
From your description it seems like the signal that you're feeding the Denon with is not strong enough to drive it to it's full output capability.
I have no experience with the Yammy's so I can't help with a comparison there.

I replaced a Pioneer AV receiver and the 3805 seems to have substantially more power than the Pioneer I'm replacing and although it's dead quiet when turned down, it does not seem to be as sensitive as the Pioneer.

One thing to consider is the fact that the volume is calibrated differently on the Denon than anything I'm at least used to. On all other receivers I've ever had, max attenuation was somewhere between -60 and -80db as far as indicated volume, and max volume was 0db. On the 3805, presumably because of it's greater dynamic range, it's calibrated from -80db on the bottom end to +18db at the loudest. It seems (feels) strange to be running the volume up to an indicated 0db for reference level listening. I actually find myself listening at an average indicated level of around -12db.

With appropriate source material, that's pretty loud here. My power requirements are hard to judge because I'm running Boston 9000 MkII satellites with dual powered subs, so the demand on the receiver's amp is not nearly as great as it would be if I were driving full range speakers.

I have noticed that the output from my HD Cable receiver is generally much lower on SD digital and HD channels, almost as if the broadcasters are using a different reference level. Even with the reduced loudness from those channels I still can't turn the receiver up past about a +4 to +6db indicated. At that point, things are painfully loud and the walls and floors are literally shaking to the point where you can feel things quite strongly in the seat of your pants. At that volume level, the sound is still crystal clear with no sense of strain or stridency.

As I become more familiar with the receiver, I may discover sensitivity calibration for the various inputs, I dunno, but I will post if I find something like that. I can tell you that the output levels on my HD cable receiver are adjustable, both for analog and digital outs, as well as variable levels of compression being able to be applied as well.

Hope this is helps. Best of luck in finding the right rig for your system.

Cheers.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #62 of 2692 Old 03-24-2004, 09:00 AM
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Quote:


My thoughts:
From your description it seems like the signal that you're feeding the Denon with is not strong enough to drive it to it's full output capability.
I have no experience with the Yammy's so I can't help with a comparison there.

Cabber,

I agree with Kwkarth.

I don´t know what's the 3805's input sensitivity, but my 3803 has a 200mV figure for analog inputs. I don't recall the figure for digital sources.

All sources varies in their voltage output, from some 100 mV to more than 2 volts in some cases (that's why the receiver has a potentiometer inside to control volume by means of signal attenuation). So, the stronger the signal to the receivers inputs, the louder it will go.

If the source line level signal is smaller than 200 mV, the volume you will obtain will be low regardless of how much you cranck the volume knob up.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!
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post #63 of 2692 Old 03-25-2004, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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So do all of the current 3805 owners have their mics on order? Is there a time frame when they will be available? How many have tried alternate routes like other manufacturer's mics? Does anybody have the recommended Denon mic?

Bottom line...How's the 3805 with music, especially 2-channel? At this point, anything is going to be a step in the right direction, but most of my use is simply listening to music (and...GASP...I'm not always sitting down in the sweet spot!). Did I say that out loud? Maybe the 3805 isn't the route I should go. I really need a robust receiver that is relatively future proof for the time being (maybe "relatively" and "time being" are redundant). I love the auto-eq setup, at least on paper, since I've got quite the "sonically challenged" listening environment. I plan on supplementing any new receiver with a decent 2 or 3 channel amp for the front end to feed my bloodthirsty Studio 100's. Again, I was initially leaning towards the Yamaha 2400 until the 3805 reared it's head and caught my attention.

I'd still love to hear from the 3805 owners out there.

J.
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post #64 of 2692 Old 03-25-2004, 09:31 PM
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Why does Denon use the unsual volume settings??

I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
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post #65 of 2692 Old 03-25-2004, 10:05 PM
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I've noticed Direct TV music being softer even on my TV speakers.

Definitely don't use it to judge your reciever's power!

Dreamaster
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post #66 of 2692 Old 03-25-2004, 10:36 PM
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Quote:


Bottom line...How's the 3805 with music, especially 2-channel?

Although I've not finished setting up the 3805, I would say it is a very musical receiver. I wouldn't be afraid to drive my Maggies with it.

My expectation is that the Denon mic will show up sometime in the first week of April, which is the promised date I originally was given by my dealer for the 3805 itself.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #67 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 04:51 AM
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I'm new to Denon products so I'm not sure if this is a normal thing or not. When I power up my 3805 its makes a humming noise when cut on. It has never done this until recently. Does this sound normal, its almost like its storing power and when its powered up it releases the left over energy and/or sounds like something rattleing in the power supply. Could really use your help asap so I can return it today while they have them in stock if need be.
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post #68 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 07:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RGrim
I'm new to Denon products so I'm not sure if this is a normal thing or not. When I power up my 3805 its makes a humming noise when cut on. It has never done this until recently. Does this sound normal, its almost like its storing power and when its powered up it releases the left over energy and/or sounds like something rattleing in the power supply. Could really use your help asap so I can return it today while they have them in stock if need be.

I had not noticed anything like that with mine, so I just went into the family room, put my ear right next to the top of the unit and turned it on. (It had been off (standby) all night) Total silence except for the clicking of the relays as it went through its power up sequence. No hums, no buzzes.

Are you sure that your power is normal? Conceivably, it might make that noise of your power line voltage was low, but more likely, it is a defect like a delaminated power transformer or a leaky power supply cap that puts strain on the PS as it powers up. Check your power to see that it is 115-120v at the wall and that the wall socket itself and wiring feeding the wall socket, in good shape. Probe the AC socket on the back of the receiver as it powers up to see if the power sags below 110v as the Denon powers up. If so, I would check your house wiring before I worried about the receiver.

Are you sure it's not something else humming like a power conditioner you've plugged the amp into? If all is normal with your power, I would encourage you to exchange your 3805 for another. My $0.02.
Best of luck! Keep us informed.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #69 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 08:02 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dirk1843
Why does Denon use the unusual volume settings??

I'm guessing that it's because of the great dynamic range of the receiver. As I get used to it, I like the idea, assuming that at an indicated 0db, I'm listening at some sort of reference level, although that's way too loud for me most of the time and with most sources.

FWIW, I did some more checking and noticed with the lower SD, non digital cable channels, I have the volume set to around -30db for comfortable listening levels. When listening to HD Cable sources, I have it set to around -12db for the same loudness level.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #70 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 08:11 AM
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Just got off the phone with Tweeters, they are exchanging it with a new 3805. Said the new unit will be in Tuesday. Thanks for all your help.
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post #71 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 12:14 PM
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I can't wait for mine, i hope i don't get the problem you have RGrim.
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post #72 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 04:41 PM
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I hope I am not breaking any forum rules, but Crutchfields has the denon microphone in stock now! I just got a 3805 last week and so far I am very happy with it. I am very curious to see how the auto setup and eq'ing work!! I am a bit torn between the 3805 and the Rotel 1056. I have a separate stereo system with rotel preamp and cd player and love that gear. I was originally going to get the pioneer elite 53tx but they were out of stock at Magnolia so I took the 3805. Since I am using all different speakers and my surrounds are not set up perfectly I am thinking that the auto eq will be a big benefit (also much better financing at magnolia versus the Rotel dealer). I have 30days to return the Denon should I end up not liking it. So far though, I am rather amazed! I listened to the Buena vista social club cd, using spdif out into the amp and the sound was really good. Very articulate, and a nice soundstage. I am going to do some more critical listening this weekend and post up some more subjective comentary!
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post #73 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 07:42 PM
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NXplasma, congrats on getting your receiver. Hope your happy. I'll check in with this thread when i get mine.
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post #74 of 2692 Old 03-26-2004, 08:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by NXPlasmid
I hope I am not breaking any forum rules, but Crutchfields has the denon microphone in stock now! I just got a 3805 last week and so far I am very happy with it. I am very curious to see how the auto setup and eq'ing work!! I am a bit torn between the 3805 and the Rotel 1056. I have a separate stereo system with rotel preamp and cd player and love that gear. I was originally going to get the pioneer elite 53tx but they were out of stock at Magnolia so I took the 3805. Since I am using all different speakers and my surrounds are not set up perfectly I am thinking that the auto eq will be a big benefit (also much better financing at magnolia versus the Rotel dealer). I have 30days to return the Denon should I end up not liking it. So far though, I am rather amazed! I listened to the Buena vista social club cd, using spdif out into the amp and the sound was really good. Very articulate, and a nice soundstage. I am going to do some more critical listening this weekend and post up some more subjective comentary!

Magnolia is a great store and where I bought my 3805. I've been a Magnolia customer for many years and they have ALWAYS come through with exemplary customer service as well as fairly competitive prices. I too, am pretty pleased so far with the 3805 and am looking forward to getting the Denon microphone.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #75 of 2692 Old 03-28-2004, 06:48 AM
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To the owners of 3805s:

When/if you get your mics, please post your auto-eq results and opinions. I'd especially like to hear from former owners of Yamaha RX-V1400/2400s since that is the only other A/V receiver with parametric eq built-in on the market currently (IIRC, Pioneer MCACC is NOT parametric but graphic). I'm also curious how they'll compare since, on paper, the Yamaha should be better since it is 10 band and the Denon is 8 band. However, we all know there are bugs in first-year features for any component (as we're most obviously seeing with the 3805 remote).
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post #76 of 2692 Old 03-28-2004, 10:57 AM
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Unless the speaker is trash, 4 bands of true parametric EQ should be enough for most venues.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #77 of 2692 Old 03-28-2004, 11:22 AM
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Well, I'n not a true believer in the room eq feature, but I agree with Kwkarth. 4 bands would suffice.

Somebody more experienced may go deeper into this subject.
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post #78 of 2692 Old 03-29-2004, 10:09 AM
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The MIC IS IN.

I'll post back some features after setting it up.

Cabber
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post #79 of 2692 Old 03-29-2004, 10:28 AM
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give us some photos cabber everyday i dream about this receiver.. almost there
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post #80 of 2692 Old 03-29-2004, 03:14 PM
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im looking to get the 3805 what is the cheapest i could get it for ?
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post #81 of 2692 Old 03-30-2004, 08:16 AM
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Can't post prices on the forum, but I would suggest that you contact the folks that run this forum as they happen to be Denon dealers, and they are known for having very competitive prices....

-Dan
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post #82 of 2692 Old 03-30-2004, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I think it's safe to say that most people seem to be getting their 3805's for about 15-18% off list. It MSRPs at $1199 so that puts it right around $1000. That obviously doesn't include the mic.

J.
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post #83 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 12:57 AM
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So I got the mic and did the auto-calibration and I think it really smoothed out the soundstage significantly, however, I didn't do any back-to-back listening. I have things set up with lfe+mains low end and after the calibration things had quite a bit of bottom end. in the next couple days or so I may try resetting everything, listening and doing the auto-cal to get a better idea of what it is doing. all in all though, seemed to do a good job. Also, the mic is quite pleasingly hefty and solid so I feel a teensy bit less annoyed it costs $65...
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post #84 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 07:20 AM
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I ditto what NXPlasmid just stated. I was really pleased with the way the mic turned out. LFE seemed a little hot for my taste so I went back to the SPL meter and adjusted it again but overall, very pleased after that. As far as build quality of the mic, pretty shocked when I felt how heavy this little thing was. Overall, will do more fine tuning this weekend to get everything to my liking.
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post #85 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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It's good to hear that the build quality of the mics is up to snuff. I guess that'll make it easier parting with $65.

For those of you that have replaced your remotes, have the new ones worked okay?

Also, I'm curious how many people either upgraded (lateral or otherwise) from the Yamaha 1400/2400 or how many people considered those models before picking up the Denon. The reason I'm asking is because I've got 2 local dealers that are both willing to work with me on their prices. I can get the Yamaha for $850 until the end of this week, or get the Denon for $1000 (no time frame). I was initially leaning toward the Yamaha, but many of the features of the Denon have me thinking twice.

I still haven't seen the 3805 yet...they're coming in tomorrow or Friday!

Thanks for the feedback!

J.
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post #86 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 08:47 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JasonColeman
It's good to hear that the build quality of the mics is up to snuff. I guess that'll make it easier parting with $65.

For those of you that have replaced your remotes, have the new ones worked okay?

Also, I'm curious how many people either upgraded (lateral or otherwise) from the Yamaha 1400/2400 or how many people considered those models before picking up the Denon. The reason I'm asking is because I've got 2 local dealers that are both willing to work with me on their prices. I can get the Yamaha for $850 until the end of this week, or get the Denon for $1000 (no time frame). I was initially leaning toward the Yamaha, but many of the features of the Denon have me thinking twice.

I still haven't seen the 3805 yet...they're coming in tomorrow or Friday!

Thanks for the feedback!

J.

Hi Jason,
I considered the 2400, but chose the Denon for the quality of the amps, preamp, superior video switching bandwidth, the remote, and 3 component inputs vs. 2. Make no mistake, the 2400 is a fine piece, but for me, the 3805 was worth the difference.

I was one who had an initially defective remote. The dealer swapped mine out immediately and the replacement works fine. About the remote itself, I'm quite pleased with its functionality, but do find myself wishing for a little more brightness of illumination behind the functions. I only run into this problem when I'm reading the manual with a bright light over my shoulder, and look at the remote simultaneously. The bright reading light washes out the illumination of the remote. In normal lighting, the remote is fine.
Cheers!

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #87 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Kwkarth-

Thanks for the reply. I've been leaning towards the Denon for the same reasons/features that you listed. Personally, I think those differences make up for the $150 price difference.

I'm glad to hear that you're still so pleased with yours. I'll let you know what I decide to do.

J.

By the way, I agree with your reply on the other 3805 thread about customer service. Shame on them.
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post #88 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 10:30 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kwkarth
Hi Jason,
I considered the 2400, but chose the Denon for the quality of the amps, preamp, superior video switching bandwidth, the remote, and 3 component inputs vs. 2. Make no mistake, the 2400 is a fine piece, but for me, the 3805 was worth the difference.

I was one who had an initially defective remote. The dealer swapped mine out immediately and the replacement works fine. About the remote itself, I'm quite pleased with its functionality, but do find myself wishing for a little more brightness of illumination behind the functions. I only run into this problem when I'm reading the manual with a bright light over my shoulder, and look at the remote simultaneously. The bright reading light washes out the illumination of the remote. In normal lighting, the remote is fine.
Cheers!

I guess I beg to differ...It's a bit ironic you chose the Denon for it's supposed build quality when the Denon models seem to have more build quality issues than the Yamahas have had. I know all we have is anecdotal reports so far but if Denon is having problems building a simple remote, including the Denon you bought for that matter, what other issues are there in that more complex big black box?

Quality of the amps? I haven't seen anything to suggest Denon's amps are better than the Yamahas amps. Please relay some facts/figures because I think the amps in any A/V receiver tend to be overrated. The only thing I've found to be of value is a THX certification, because then I know the amps had to pass a high standard of quality and high output to get the THX stamp of approval on it.

Preamp? The Denon may have Burr-Brown DACs, but it takes more than a set of Burr-Brown DACs to make good sound. All I know is that the DACs in the Yamaha were highly commended in the Audioholics review.
Quote:


The DAC section in the RX-V2400 was top notch. In fact, switching back and forth between using my bedroom SACD changer DAC's for CD playback vs the internal DAC's in the RX-V2400, I preferred the latter. When the RX-V2400 served as the DAC, it sounded more open, and detailed in the high frequencies. The amp section proved to be quite dynamic, more so then my Harman Kardon integrated amplifier that currently comprises my bedroom system. I felt that RX-V2400 again had a more open and punchy presence than my integrated amp, but was a bit more analytical sounding. I definitely felt that this was the best sounding sub $1000 receiver I have yet to hear Yamaha produce.

Also, the Denon doesn't have all the really cool DSP settings the Yamahas have with CinemaDSP. I find myself using the "Adventure" and "Spectacle" settings more and more all the time.

Video switching bandwidth? Denon's got the Yamaha there. Denon states 100Mhz; Yamaha states 60Mhz. My understanding is that you only need 40Mhz for HD signals; and I've also come across a rumor that the Denon rating of 100Mhz is overinflated. To be determined I guess...

Remote? Well, as long as you don't get a defective one I guess.

Component inputs? Definite advantage to the Denon...if you need 3 inputs instead of 2. Personally, I think all the receivers of this quality should have started incorporating HDMI.

But there are so many other features to compare and take into consideration as well such as THX processing/certification, inclusion of microphone, 10-band vs. 8-band parametric equalizer, audio delay for adjusting lip synch (Denon may have this I'm not sure), etc, and in the end it does comes down to your personal tastes and which you find sounds better in your room, with your speakers. I know that's such a cliched disclaimer around here, but it's true. I just would be careful about labelling this specific Denon component a better built component than the Yamaha RX-V2400/1400 as that is truly a mixed bag. Build quality of both brands have their pluses and minuses. I know I will be very interested to see the Audioholics review of the 3805 when that finally comes out.
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post #89 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 11:12 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PontifexMaximus
I know all we have is anecdotal reports so far but if Denon is having problems building a simple remote, including the Denon you bought for that matter, what other issues are there in that more complex big black box?

actually i'd say they were trying to build a pretty complex remote. it 'may' have served them better to build a more simple solution. the remote is also the piece that's going to take the most abuse...it's going to get mashed, dropped, bumped around...etc.

Quote:



I know I will be very interested to see the Audioholics review of the 3805 when that finally comes out.

i'm also looking forward to their write up.
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post #90 of 2692 Old 03-31-2004, 11:42 AM
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What kind of DSPs does the Denon have? Do they compare with those on the Yamaha?
rileychris is offline  
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