"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2646 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3560Likes
 
Thread Tools
post #79351 of 79637 Old 02-25-2016, 02:38 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
After running Audyssey few times now for various reasons, i am comfortable getting the trip around -8-10 and i know what setting i need to use to get that, however, i do wish Audyssey would just have a pretest or independent measurement of subwoofer Trip so that you would not have to rerun it, although they say you can just take all measurement from one spot and check, however, this still takes time.
Now i am going to to two subwoofer so feature like this would help a lot.
without making it too complicated i will set the SPL measurement ( i assume running test tone and measuring from MLP & 82-85 ) with the goal of achieving sub trip no more then -9-10 is what i am hoping for.
Has anyone tried just ending Audessey setup after first measurement marking it complete and reviewing the Levels and then Adjust as needed and rerun to completion, i would imagine this should work unless the trip is
updated after full measurements, from my understanding Audyssey sets the distances and trip after first measurement so it will not hurt to just end the measurement and complete to review.

That will work fine. I think that is exactly what most of us do to establish the trim levels for our subs, before running the full 8-point calibration.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #79352 of 79637 Old 02-25-2016, 03:01 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11,394
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6137 Post(s)
Liked: 5351
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That will work fine. I think that is exactly what most of us do to establish the trim levels for our subs, before running the full 8-point calibration.
As Mike said, most of us (myself included) do it exactly this way. IME, the trim levels can vary slightly from a 1 point calibration to a full 8 point cal, but only by .5dB if at all.

I've posted this here before, but here is my "quick-n-dirty" Audyssey procedure for setting up a single sub. It's quite basic, but gets the "basics" out of the way.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on the sub to around 12:00-2:00 (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0".

1. Connect sub and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best location
3. Place sub in that location
4. Run Audyssey, first mic position only and "calculate"
5. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6dB to -8dB ideally
6. Adjust the gain on the sub up or down as needed
7. Repeat 4-6 until you get the sub trim around -6dB to -8dB
8. Run the full Audyssey calibration
9. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
10. Enjoy!
mogorf likes this.
Alan P is offline  
post #79353 of 79637 Old 02-25-2016, 03:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1225 Post(s)
Liked: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
As Mike said, most of us (myself included) do it exactly this way. IME, the trim levels can vary slightly from a 1 point calibration to a full 8 point cal, but only by .5dB if at all.

I've posted this here before, but here is my "quick-n-dirty" Audyssey procedure for setting up a single sub. It's quite basic, but gets the "basics" out of the way.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on the sub to around 12:00-2:00 (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0".

1. Connect sub and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best location
3. Place sub in that location
4. Run Audyssey, first mic position only and "calculate"
5. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6dB to -8dB ideally
6. Adjust the gain on the sub up or down as needed
7. Repeat 4-6 until you get the sub trim around -6dB to -8dB
8. Run the full Audyssey calibration
9. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
10. Enjoy!
+1 to Alan.

Although on a conservative touch I'd be a bit cautious with #9. Would leave the default sub trim as set by Audyssey and would listen for a day or two or even a week while doing nothing else than test running with film and music.

This just to get acquianted with how the system bass sounds like when Audyssey sets it to Reference.

As we know there are certain movies with bass-heavy sound tracks that might as well attempt to kill the system's bass department, e.g. the first 20 seconds of "Edge of Tomorrow", etc. Meantime, certain music recordings may be lacking the bass punch we've always expected. After a week or so we will have a well defined routine on how we like to enjoy bass and how much bump or cut we need to achive that kinda acoustic Nirvana.

Just a thought!
garygarrison likes this.
mogorf is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #79354 of 79637 Old 02-25-2016, 06:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 1172
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
.

As we know there are certain movies with bass-heavy sound tracks that might as well attempt to kill the system's bass department, e.g. the first 20 seconds of "Edge of Tomorrow", etc.
Does Edge of Tomorrow come with a warning to protect your speakers, like Telarc disks with cannons used to? [Actually, their cannons are tame compared to the LFE on some newer movies]
garygarrison is offline  
post #79355 of 79637 Old 02-25-2016, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 14,826
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4807 Post(s)
Liked: 2844
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Does Edge of Tomorrow come with a warning to protect your speakers, like Telarc disks with cannons used to? [Actually, their cannons are tame compared to the LFE on some newer movies]
I'm not sure if you're being serious about the warning, but no, it doesn't. My understanding is that subs which have been damaged by it usually are ones that were home-made and didn't include the limiters that are built into most commercial subwoofers. Presumably commercial subwoofer designers learned from their experiences with early audio systems when playing audio demo and measurement discs like those from Telarc.
garygarrison likes this.

Selden

Marantz SR7009 avr + MM9000 amp --> Atmos 7.1.4
Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
post #79356 of 79637 Old 02-26-2016, 08:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
D Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked: 444
I've got a question for you guys, does room EQ make speakers "sound the same"? What I mean by that is if you had 5 identical rooms set up with 5 different manufactures' speakers all set up identically, does Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect.. end up making all 5 of those speakers systems sound the "same"? Would they now all sound the way Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect wanted them to sound based on their design?

I guess another way to ask this is if Andrew Jones sat down in a room that was auto EQd to listen to his speakers, would he be like "these aren't my speakers, they sound nothing like what I intended"?

What say you all?
garygarrison likes this.
D Bone is offline  
post #79357 of 79637 Old 02-26-2016, 08:34 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
I've got a question for you guys, does room EQ make speakers "sound the same"? What I mean by that is if you had 5 identical rooms set up with 5 different manufactures' speakers all set up identically, does Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect.. end up making all 5 of those speakers systems sound the "same"? Would they now all sound the way Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect wanted them to sound based on their design?

I guess another way to ask this is if Andrew Jones sat down in a room that was auto EQd to listen to his speakers, would he be like "these aren't my speakers, they sound nothing like what I intended"?

What say you all?
That's an interesting question. IMO, if Andrew Jones listened to his speakers in five different rooms, they would sound slightly different in each room, but would always sound like his speakers. And that is exactly what he would expect, given the importance of speaker/room interaction in defining the sound that actually reaches the listener.

Speakers with very similar driver and cabinet designs, can still sound quite different depending on how internal crossovers, and other design factors are implemented. But hypothetically, if you had very similar sounding speakers, placed in very similar sounding rooms, they would sound very similar, at similar listening distances, even without room correction. Then, depending on how the room correction were implemented, the sound might either converge more, or start to diverge a bit. I still believe that with room correction, as with much else, the devil's in the details, with respect to both inherent design, and practical implementation.

Some people talk about Audyssey's ability to timbre match speakers, but I think that capability is overstated. For instance, electrostatic speakers have a very distinct sound to me, and I don't think that Audyssey, or any room correction system, can or should, change the inherent sound of the speakers. All that it should try to do, and all that it can really try to do in my experience, is to improve the speaker/room interaction, by removing some distortion at the listening area.

But the essential tone, or timbre, of the speaker is largely unaffected by that process of removing distortion in the listening area, IMO. I can hear not only gross differences in my speakers, but fairly subtle ones as well, irrespective of anything that XT-32 is doing. YMMV!
D Bone likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 02-26-2016 at 08:38 AM.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79358 of 79637 Old 02-26-2016, 08:48 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That will work fine. I think that is exactly what most of us do to establish the trim levels for our subs, before running the full 8-point calibration.
Thanks,
This will help a great deal to get the trim right,eventually i hope Audyssy will allow you to review the results after 1st measurement, without cancellation and ask you to proceed further or repeat the test after adjustment, this should have been done to begin with.
rockyroad3333 is offline  
post #79359 of 79637 Old 02-26-2016, 10:02 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
Thanks,
This will help a great deal to get the trim right,eventually i hope Audyssy will allow you to review the results after 1st measurement, without cancellation and ask you to proceed further or repeat the test after adjustment, this should have been done to begin with.

You are welcome! I agree that's it's a valuable shortcut. Simply tell Audyssey to calibrate after that 1st mic. position, and once it does, you can review the results for the sub and all the speakers. Then, in my AVR, at least, you have to restart the calibration process, commencing with the 1st. mic. position. But, as long as you don't move that 1st mic. position for the full 8-point run, your final results should align very closely, or identically, with what they were in that trial calibration.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79360 of 79637 Old 02-26-2016, 02:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 1172
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
I've got a question for you guys, does room EQ make speakers "sound the same"? What I mean by that is if you had 5 identical rooms set up with 5 different manufactures' speakers all set up identically, does Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect.. end up making all 5 of those speakers systems sound the "same"? Would they now all sound the way Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect wanted them to sound based on their design?

I guess another way to ask this is if Andrew Jones sat down in a room that was auto EQd to listen to his speakers, would he be like "these aren't my speakers, they sound nothing like what I intended"?

What say you all?
I suspect that the frequency response of the 5 different speakers in the 5 identical rooms would sound more nearly the same, by attenuating major peaks and raising the SPL in some dips due to the design of the 5 different designs of the speakers. Some anomalies due to the shared design of the 5 identical rooms would be corrected. But some speakers have very different dynamics, different amounts of headroom in terms of maximum SPL at a given amount of distortion, different amounts of frequency modulation distortion, etc. I don't think Audyssey could do much about those differences. I agree with Mike that electrostatics would still tend to sound like electrostatics (but with smoother frequency response), and I would think ribbon speakers would still sound like ribbon speakers (but with smoother frequency response), horn loaded speakers would still sound like horn loaded speakers (but with smoother frequency response), etc., etc.
D Bone and mthomas47 like this.
garygarrison is offline  
post #79361 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 06:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jeff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: One step ahead of you
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Is there any list of compatible mics?

I know the AVR's are tuned to the mics, but my Denon Audyssey mic was just discovered to be crushed by a kid's stacking job. (note to kid: little light things go on top of heavy things, not the other way)

I have a slew of of calibration mics from over the years hope something is compatible. I know there are several models of the Denon tower mic, and I'm not sure if I can only replace with another dm-a409 or with something else work? I'm betting other non-audyssey mics won't work, but what about other audyssey mics even from different manufacturers?
I just don't want to go buy another if something else will do!
Jeff D is offline  
post #79362 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 07:02 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff D View Post
Is there any list of compatible mics?

I know the AVR's are tuned to the mics, but my Denon Audyssey mic was just discovered to be crushed by a kid's stacking job. (note to kid: little light things go on top of heavy things, not the other way)

I have a slew of of calibration mics from over the years hope something is compatible. I know there are several models of the Denon tower mic, and I'm not sure if I can only replace with another dm-a409 or with something else work? I'm betting other non-audyssey mics won't work, but what about other audyssey mics even from different manufacturers?
I just don't want to go buy another if something else will do!
Hi Jeff,

According to the trusty FAQ, which always manages to stay one step ahead, the ACM1H is compatible with the DM-A409, so if you have one of those it should be fine. The ACM1H has been used by everyone since mid-2012, and either the silver or black tower is interchangeable. (I think the black one is designated as ACM1H-B.)

Regards,
Mike
D Bone likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79363 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 07:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jeff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: One step ahead of you
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Thanks Mike, I got intimidated by the long thread and forgot to check the FAQ!
Time to look through my supply.
Jeff D is offline  
post #79364 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 07:24 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff D View Post
Thanks Mike, I got intimidated by the long thread and forgot to check the FAQ!
Time to look through my supply.

You are very welcome! Trying to search the thread is no picnic.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79365 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 10:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
D Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked: 444
New ELAC B5s for the L/R and new SVS Prime Satellites for the surrounds to replace my HTD setup......... Audyssey XT is like a zombie for me, just can't kill it. Review to come after I get this stupid smile off of my face from the B5s - but that might be a few days/weeks.
mthomas47 likes this.
D Bone is offline  
post #79366 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 10:28 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
New ELAC B5s for the L/R and new SVS Prime Satellites for the surrounds to replace my HTD setup......... Audyssey XT is like a zombie for me, just can't kill it. Review to come after I get this stupid smile off of my face from the B5s - but that might be a few days/weeks.

Hey, congratulations!

I have wondered a few times recently if you would ever consider getting rid of your bi-poles, considering the fact that you have had so much trouble getting them to play nicely with Audyssey. But it certainly wasn't my place to suggest it.

I have heard good things about the ELAC speakers, but don't know much about them. I will look forward to your impressions. FWIW, I have heard that excessive smiling can interfere with normal psycho-acoustic responses.
D Bone likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79367 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 02:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1225 Post(s)
Liked: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
New ELAC B5s for the L/R and new SVS Prime Satellites for the surrounds to replace my HTD setup......... Audyssey XT is like a zombie for me, just can't kill it. Review to come after I get this stupid smile off of my face from the B5s - but that might be a few days/weeks.
Congrats D Bone on your new speakers. How about doing yourself a favor by forgetting about Audyssey for the time being and setting up your new speakers while concentrating on best placement, best toe-in/ toe-out, best height to face seated ear height, and all that jazz, e.g. ELAC B5s are rear ported so you may need to consider proper distances from front wall with a little experimenting. And when you have a relatively pleasing sound in your room you can run MultEQ XT as the icing on the cake. Don't be in a hurry, take your time, it'll pay off I'm sure.

Take care!
D Bone, pbarach, mthomas47 and 1 others like this.
mogorf is online now  
post #79368 of 79637 Old 02-27-2016, 06:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
D Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked: 444
Thanks guys I'm not going to oversell it, but I took my time and placed everything correctly. I also removed my AntiMode too. I was surprised at how much difference just a little change to the toe-in had on the B5s.

At first I had them toed-in directly at me and liked the sound without EQ, but I went ahead and did some serious testing in direct mode (full range/no sub) and I ended up liking them the most with them pointing about an arms length off the center of my mlp spot..... Who woulda thunk?

I then did the same thing with the SVS surrounds in multi channel stereo mode, and although I didn't have a single "a-ha" moment at any toe in position, I did settle on a position that sounded best.......... My sub location is my sub location - end of story on that.

I ran a quick down and dirty 3pt calibration just to check the new speaker trims and distances and documented them for future use. Then I reset the entire AVR (OCD thing) and ran a real calibration.

The results surprised me, in that when I now turn off XT there is not the usual (to me) "night and day difference" between off and reference. Of course with XT enabled on reference setting, my sub sounded better and didn't dominate the room with one loud note, and my near corner mounted surrounds lost their bloat as well, however there wasn't an enormous change to the B5s, but there was some differences........

The change that was there in the B5s with XT was a little mid bass/lower midrange (standard/manly male voice) "bloat". XT seemed to add something that made them sound a little thick and muddy......... I choose on purpose to run without a center speaker so my L/Rs produce all of my dialog and it's easy to hear anything good or bad in that critical region. All is not lost however, as I am currently enjoying L/R Bypass as I type this, and my B5s sound as if they were designed by someone who knew what they were doing.

My surrounds sound perfect. What can I say? Not a hint of harshness, brightness, ect.. like there was with my bi-pole HTDs. I took a picture of the EQ settings graph (crude I know, but it's better than nothing) for the HTDs before I removed them, and it showed from 10k on up there was a 10+db boost. However on my SVS Primes, there is very little boosting at all, with the majority of the EQing being trimming the bloat in the 250-500 range from being mounted near a corner......... That's it! Just by looking at the two EQ graphs it's easy to see what I was hearing with the HTD bi-poles....... I think they were boosted so much that the tweeters (4 total) were just distorting like crazy and that's what I was hearing?

Anyway, this is where I sit tonight and I can't believe the overall sound I got for the dollar spent. I'll update once I get more time on them and see where I ultimately end up, but right now I'm a pretty happy dude.
garygarrison likes this.
D Bone is offline  
post #79369 of 79637 Old 02-29-2016, 01:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ganymed4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
I've got a question for you guys, does room EQ make speakers "sound the same"? What I mean by that is if you had 5 identical rooms set up with 5 different manufactures' speakers all set up identically, does Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect.. end up making all 5 of those speakers systems sound the "same"? Would they now all sound the way Audyssey/YPAO/MCACC/ect wanted them to sound based on their design?

I guess another way to ask this is if Andrew Jones sat down in a room that was auto EQd to listen to his speakers, would he be like "these aren't my speakers, they sound nothing like what I intended"?

What say you all?
This is an interesting question and was used to argument against the use of room correction systems since a long time. But, as it was already stated in other answers, this is not the case. I just would like to add my own experiences: After making an Audyssey measurement you can clearly still recognize the characteristics of the individual speaker system. The reason why, was already answered in another answer.
I know one guy, publishing tests of home cinema equipment and he was strongly against the use of room EQ systems. Since XT32 was out he changed his opinion a bit and since he used Dirac with a Datasat RS20i, he completely changed his mind.
In my opinion it is not worth to start flame wars about the use of room EQ systems or not. My recommendation is that you should gain your own opinion, by extensive listening tests in your environment. Because every environment and set up is different, I personally do not feel to be in the position to tell anybody what is good or bad. What is good in my case, might not achieve the best results in another environment. The only thing that counts - in my opinion - is the result in your own environment. However, it is good to get the opinion of others and learn form their experience.

Just my 2 cents...
D Bone, mthomas47, mogorf and 1 others like this.
Ganymed4 is offline  
post #79370 of 79637 Old 03-01-2016, 07:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That will work fine. I think that is exactly what most of us do to establish the trim levels for our subs, before running the full 8-point calibration.
I realize that after adding second sub in the mix my original observation on where to start the volume on the subwoofer is way off.
I recently added second sub and the Y at the distal connection ( close to the subwoofer) was giving log of issues ( Monster Y, one female to two male), i had no output from the second Male connection and which ever sub i connected there was silenence ? Strange, so i switched my config to running Line out of the 1st sub into LFE in to the second sub, this is working fine, i may have had a bad Y , never tried second Y, also the distance from receiver to 1st sub is apx 25 feet, 1st sub to 2nd sub is about 10 feet.
Now when i run Audyssy, i have to turn up my sub substiantially to get to final negative trip around -8-9, this may be normal but now my sub volume are set bit heigher then midpoint, but when i had one sub , i set it close to 3 ( very low to get -9).
Any thoughts on that, Length of the cable to 1st sub ( SVS PB1000) is the same, second sub ( infinity 12 ) is daisy chained to SVS.
I have not tried runnign new and another long ( 40 feet) cable from second sub out to second sub, this remains a option but i would like to avoid it.
rockyroad3333 is offline  
post #79371 of 79637 Old 03-01-2016, 03:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11,394
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6137 Post(s)
Liked: 5351
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
I realize that after adding second sub in the mix my original observation on where to start the volume on the subwoofer is way off.
I recently added second sub and the Y at the distal connection ( close to the subwoofer) was giving log of issues ( Monster Y, one female to two male), i had no output from the second Male connection and which ever sub i connected there was silenence ? Strange, so i switched my config to running Line out of the 1st sub into LFE in to the second sub, this is working fine, i may have had a bad Y , never tried second Y, also the distance from receiver to 1st sub is apx 25 feet, 1st sub to 2nd sub is about 10 feet.
Now when i run Audyssy, i have to turn up my sub substiantially to get to final negative trip around -8-9, this may be normal but now my sub volume are set bit heigher then midpoint, but when i had one sub , i set it close to 3 ( very low to get -9).
Any thoughts on that, Length of the cable to 1st sub ( SVS PB1000) is the same, second sub ( infinity 12 ) is daisy chained to SVS.
I have not tried runnign new and another long ( 40 feet) cable from second sub out to second sub, this remains a option but i would like to avoid it.
Your second sub is cancelling out your first sub (or vice-versa). When adding the second sub, you should be seeing a (roughly) 5-6dB increase in SPL. Do you have an SPL meter??

To remedy this cancellation, you need to get the subs time-aligned (or "in-phase"). This can be done, albeit crudely, with the phase control on the subs.

If your sub has a simple 0/180 switch, try flipping it on ONE sub...does the combined output increase? If so, leave that sub with the phase inverted.

The proper way to do it is to time-align the subs with Audyssey XT32+SubEQ HT, or some sort of outboard box like a MiniDSP.
Alan P is offline  
post #79372 of 79637 Old 03-01-2016, 03:19 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
I realize that after adding second sub in the mix my original observation on where to start the volume on the subwoofer is way off.
I recently added second sub and the Y at the distal connection ( close to the subwoofer) was giving log of issues ( Monster Y, one female to two male), i had no output from the second Male connection and which ever sub i connected there was silenence ? Strange, so i switched my config to running Line out of the 1st sub into LFE in to the second sub, this is working fine, i may have had a bad Y , never tried second Y, also the distance from receiver to 1st sub is apx 25 feet, 1st sub to 2nd sub is about 10 feet.
Now when i run Audyssy, i have to turn up my sub substiantially to get to final negative trip around -8-9, this may be normal but now my sub volume are set bit heigher then midpoint, but when i had one sub , i set it close to 3 ( very low to get -9).
Any thoughts on that, Length of the cable to 1st sub ( SVS PB1000) is the same, second sub ( infinity 12 ) is daisy chained to SVS.
I have not tried runnign new and another long ( 40 feet) cable from second sub out to second sub, this remains a option but i would like to avoid it.

Hi,

I am not exactly sure that I understand the problem here. Alan gave you an answer based on the assumption that you don't have XT-32 with SubEQ. I went back to read your original posts, and for some reason, I was assuming that you do have it. What you may be describing is simply a gain control issue, where your new PB-1000 requires a higher gain setting than you are used to using with your older sub. If so, simply turning up the gain control on the PB, is the correct procedure and does no harm at all. The gain controls are logarithmic, so they can go from just barely loud enough, to too loud very quickly, as you adjust them upward. FWIW, most SVS users, with the Sledge amps, report using fairly high gain numbers. Again, that in itself is no problem at all.

If I have misunderstood what you are saying, please explain the issue again.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79373 of 79637 Old 03-01-2016, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11,394
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6137 Post(s)
Liked: 5351
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I am not exactly sure that I understand the problem here. Alan gave you an answer based on the assumption that you don't have XT-32 with SubEQ. I went back to read your original posts, and for some reason, I was assuming that you do have it. What you may be describing is simply a gain control issue, where your new PB-1000 requires a higher gain setting than you are used to using with your older sub. If so, simply turning up the gain control on the PB, is the correct procedure and does no harm at all. The gain controls are logarithmic, so they can go from just barely loud enough, to too loud very quickly, as you adjust them upward. FWIW, most SVS users, with the Sledge amps, report using fairly high gain numbers. Again, that in itself is no problem at all.

If I have misunderstood what you are saying, please explain the issue again.

Regards,
Mike
Well, if he does have XT32 he kind of nullified the SubEQ HT by daisy-chaining his subs.
Alan P is offline  
post #79374 of 79637 Old 03-01-2016, 04:05 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, if he does have XT32 he kind of nullified the SubEQ HT by daisy-chaining his subs.

I think you are right, Alan. I must be a little tired, but reading his post again, I agree with your first post.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79375 of 79637 Old 03-02-2016, 06:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I think you are right, Alan. I must be a little tired, but reading his post again, I agree with your first post.
There is no problem, just describing the setup that it requires complete rethink of having one sub vs two and i will be turning the volume gain up a bit more to get the output i need, its more of an observation for anyone who goes through similar setup, i do not have Audessy SUBEQ HT so wiring two sub separately does not apply to me.
Its post is only for awareness purpose, this is the first time i have SVS sub so what you say regarding volume control is what i am encountering.
No worries, i am good to go.
rockyroad3333 is offline  
post #79376 of 79637 Old 03-02-2016, 07:01 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Your second sub is cancelling out your first sub (or vice-versa). When adding the second sub, you should be seeing a (roughly) 5-6dB increase in SPL. Do you have an SPL meter??

To remedy this cancellation, you need to get the subs time-aligned (or "in-phase"). This can be done, albeit crudely, with the phase control on the subs.

If your sub has a simple 0/180 switch, try flipping it on ONE sub...does the combined output increase? If so, leave that sub with the phase inverted.

The proper way to do it is to time-align the subs with Audyssey XT32+SubEQ HT, or some sort of outboard box like a MiniDSP.
Alan,
Both Sub are set to Phase Zero and i have not tried to change the phase yet , this is something i can try soon, thanks for the TIP, i do have log SPL but when i generate the test tone for some reason the speakers ( satellites ) read around 60+ ( and i hear the tone) with it but the when i get to the subwoofer part it does not seems to generate output ( below 40) so not sure whats up with the Test tone or if i am doing it wrong.
My process is go to speakers>generate test tone and then select speakers. ( i know i did not have such an problem with my HK receiver ), sub woofers are on and powered when i conduct this test.
I do have logSPL on my iphone, which is what i use.
I have attempted to do test tones with subs a few times but just to reconfirm i will do it again.
rockyroad3333 is offline  
post #79377 of 79637 Old 03-02-2016, 08:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
D Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
Alan,
Both Sub are set to Phase Zero and i have not tried to change the phase yet , this is something i can try soon, thanks for the TIP, i do have log SPL but when i generate the test tone for some reason the speakers ( satellites ) read around 60+ ( and i hear the tone) with it but the when i get to the subwoofer part it does not seems to generate output ( below 40) so not sure whats up with the Test tone or if i am doing it wrong.
My process is go to speakers>generate test tone and then select speakers. ( i know i did not have such an problem with my HK receiver ), sub woofers are on and powered when i conduct this test.
I do have logSPL on my iphone, which is what i use.
I have attempted to do test tones with subs a few times but just to reconfirm i will do it again.
If it's a newer Denon, make sure your master volume is turned up to "0db" when checking the speaker trims.
D Bone is offline  
post #79378 of 79637 Old 03-02-2016, 08:15 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,071
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5314 Post(s)
Liked: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
There is no problem, just describing the setup that it requires complete rethink of having one sub vs two and i will be turning the volume gain up a bit more to get the output i need, its more of an observation for anyone who goes through similar setup, i do not have Audessy SUBEQ HT so wiring two sub separately does not apply to me.
Its post is only for awareness purpose, this is the first time i have SVS sub so what you say regarding volume control is what i am encountering.
No worries, i am good to go.


Okay, good! FWIW, I did have a bad Y-connector once which I had to replace. Sometimes even the cheap Radio Shack connectors will work fine, where the more expensive ones might not. I don't know how good the quality control is on some of them, regardless of brand.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #79379 of 79637 Old 03-02-2016, 08:47 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11,394
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6137 Post(s)
Liked: 5351
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad3333 View Post
Alan,
Both Sub are set to Phase Zero and i have not tried to change the phase yet , this is something i can try soon, thanks for the TIP, i do have log SPL but when i generate the test tone for some reason the speakers ( satellites ) read around 60+ ( and i hear the tone) with it but the when i get to the subwoofer part it does not seems to generate output ( below 40) so not sure whats up with the Test tone or if i am doing it wrong.
My process is go to speakers>generate test tone and then select speakers. ( i know i did not have such an problem with my HK receiver ), sub woofers are on and powered when i conduct this test.
I do have logSPL on my iphone, which is what i use.
I have attempted to do test tones with subs a few times but just to reconfirm i will do it again.
I have never used an SPL app on a phone so I can't really comment on their accuracy. However, I can tell you that a proper SPL meter (or even better, REW+calibrated mic) would probably be more accurate than the tiny little mic on a phone.

Do you have the SPL app set to "C" weighting and "Slow" response (if it has those settings)?
Alan P is offline  
post #79380 of 79637 Old 03-02-2016, 09:43 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I have never used an SPL app on a phone so I can't really comment on their accuracy. However, I can tell you that a proper SPL meter (or even better, REW+calibrated mic) would probably be more accurate than the tiny little mic on a phone.

Do you have the SPL app set to "C" weighting and "Slow" response (if it has those settings)?
I will check on it, from what i read logSPL was thought to be more accurate and it does read well for the trims on Satellites, just when i get to sub there seems to be no output but the subs are working fine and no issues with that, i will check the volume first on AVR before trying out the test tones again.
Just checking the log SPL now and i can easily switch to Slow and C weighted so i will leave it there.
rockyroad3333 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off