The "Official" Outlaw 2200 Monoblock Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 326 Old 03-14-2015, 10:36 PM
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I'm going to start out with one for my svs ultra center. I think this will take a little stress off my onkyo 1030. The svs ultra towers and center are really 3 to 5 ohms @ 88 db not 8 ohm like the sticker says so I think my avr will be happy and have a little more headroom for the remaining six speakers.
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post #122 of 326 Old 02-23-2016, 10:47 PM
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Thinking about buying 4 of these to power my 4 Atmos speakers (Paradigm Elite E65-R's). I'll be using an Anthem AVM60 processor and an Outlaw 7700 for the 7 floor channels. I like that these 2200's have balanced inputs. I was going to get a Emotiva XPA-5 for the Atmos speakers, but it's taking forever to get in stock. Any reason not to get 4 of these 2200's for the Atmos speakers? Besides being in one package (and having an extra channel), is the Emotiva XPA-5 technically better in any way?

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post #123 of 326 Old 02-23-2016, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
Thinking about buying 4 of these to power my 4 Atmos speakers (Paradigm Elite E65-R's). I'll be using an Anthe AVM60 processor and an Outlaw 7700 for the 7 floor channels. I like that these 2200's have balanced inputs. I was going to get a Emotiva XPA-5 for the Atmos speakers, but it's taking forever to get in stock. Any reason not to get 4 of these 2200's for the Atmos speakers?
I use them t0 drive my Paradigm surrounds and I must admin, they run them pretty hard and sound great

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post #124 of 326 Old 02-23-2016, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
I use them t0 drive my Paradigm surrounds and I must admin, they run them pretty hard and sound great

The Paradigms seem to be rated for 150W amps. Should I be concerned about using the 2200's since they are 200W amps? I doubt I would ever push them hard enough to need that much power, but they will be used as part of a full Paradigm Prestige 7.1.4 setup (with Rythmik F25 subs).
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post #125 of 326 Old 02-24-2016, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
Thinking about buying 4 of these to power my 4 Atmos speakers (Paradigm Elite E65-R's). I'll be using an Anthem AVM60 processor and an Outlaw 7700 for the 7 floor channels. I like that these 2200's have balanced inputs. I was going to get a Emotiva XPA-5 for the Atmos speakers, but it's taking forever to get in stock. Any reason not to get 4 of these 2200's for the Atmos speakers? Besides being in one package (and having an extra channel), is the Emotiva XPA-5 technically better in any way?
Massive overkill for atmos channels. If you want to stay with Outlaw, just get the 5000.
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post #126 of 326 Old 02-24-2016, 11:49 AM
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Agree 1000% with rdgrimes.

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post #127 of 326 Old 02-24-2016, 11:55 AM
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^^^
There might even be a cogent argument for using the 2200 for the main channels and moving the 7700 to surround duty, but that's still serious over-kill. The 5000 was made for this exact situation.

A used 7100 or 7075 would be a decent option too.
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post #128 of 326 Old 08-13-2016, 10:55 PM
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Would it make a difference if your 7700 uses balanced cables and the 5000 uses unbalanced?
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post #129 of 326 Old 08-14-2016, 06:34 AM
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No.

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post #130 of 326 Old 08-17-2016, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
Would it make a difference if your 7700 uses balanced cables and the 5000 uses unbalanced?
Here's a complete answer as I typically like to understand why....

Using a fully Balanced signal adds about 6 to 10 dB of extra headroom to your equipment without the added noise. However if you can't make a Balanced to Balanced connection then it's better to stick with Unbalanced to Unbalanced as you'll be introducing noise anytime an Unbalanced cable is used. Balanced lines are ideal in situations involving low signal levels where noise can be a problem.

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post #131 of 326 Old 08-22-2016, 11:44 AM
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Just found this thread as I've been researching adding more amps to my system. Currently, I use the Behringer A500s to power the Fronts and Center (center is bridged). I have been reviewing the Emotiva's and the Monolith 7 channel amp (focusing more on the Mono 7 amp), but just came across this amp. Would any of these, particularly the Outlaw 2200, be an upgrade to the A500s? If so, what would be improved over my current amps? Are you guys/gals still happy with the 2200s?

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post #132 of 326 Old 08-22-2016, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Methodical_1 View Post
Just found this thread as I've been researching adding more amps to my system. Currently, I use the Behringer A500s to power the Fronts and Center (center is bridged). I have been reviewing the Emotiva's and the Monolith 7 channel amp (focusing more on the Mono 7 amp), but just came across this amp. Would any of these, particularly the Outlaw 2200, be an upgrade to the A500s? If so, what would be improved over my current amps? Are you guys/gals still happy with the 2200s?

Thanks.
I love the 2200, and use 5 of them. It should meet or beat the A500 per channel performance, as the 200W rating is VERY conservative. Its has perfectly quiet and clean sound, 2 of them can stack in a 4" space and they run very cool.
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post #133 of 326 Old 08-22-2016, 12:25 PM
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My experience with 3 2200's mirrors Mr. Grimes. I have 3 stacked in a cabinet on top of each other and despite how hard I push them or the length of time they remain cool to the touch. The auto mode is also another plus if you don't want to have to mess with using cables/triggers. Great amp in a small package. Highly recommend.

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post #134 of 326 Old 08-22-2016, 04:50 PM
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Thanks for the feedback^^^. I do have these on the radar. Will do some more research.

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post #135 of 326 Old 08-22-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
the 200W rating is VERY conservative.
Not really. Stereophile measured the amp Outlaw knocked off, NHT's A1.

"The A1 exceeds its specified power, delivering 216W into 8 ohms (23.3dBW), 340W into 4 ohms (22.3dBW), and 440W into 2 ohms (20.4dBW), though it heated up rapidly driving the latter load."

Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/n...ltiYzokcH8A.99

So it's not overrated, but not underrated either. It's more or less correctly rated.

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post #136 of 326 Old 08-23-2016, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Not really. Stereophile measured the amp Outlaw knocked off, NHT's A1.

"The A1 exceeds its specified power, delivering 216W into 8 ohms (23.3dBW), 340W into 4 ohms (22.3dBW), and 440W into 2 ohms (20.4dBW), though it heated up rapidly driving the latter load."

Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/n...ltiYzokcH8A.99

So it's not overrated, but not underrated either. It's more or less correctly rated.
"Hot after driving a the speakers at 70 watts" or "shutting down after 15 minutes" - that's not anything close to being similar in performance to the Outlaw 2200's. My Sierra's aren't what most would consider efficient speakers. Cool to the touch at reference levels and they have never shut down in 2 years plus despite being in a cabinet without ventilation - 3 stacked on top of each other. I suspect others who own these amps have similar experiences with their performance. The review you quoted isn't indicative of how this type of amp performs.

Now lets compare Monoprice's 7 channel amp to ATI's 7 channel amp - the Mono is clearly a knockoff as well

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post #137 of 326 Old 08-23-2016, 09:52 AM
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Internet fanboi-ism is an interesting phenomenon. One of its symptoms is that a fanboi often mistakes a simple correction of fact for an slight on the object of her/his undying affection. With that said…

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
"Hot after driving a the speakers at 70 watts" or "shutting down after 15 minutes" - that's not anything close to being similar in performance to the Outlaw 2200's.
Please read both my words and JA's more carefully. Here’s what JA actually wrote in his measurement report, with emphasis added to the super-relevant part you glossed over:

“The Evolution T6's A1 monoblock amplifier doesn't have enough heatsink area to enable it to run at high power for long periods of time. It shut itself down after driving 70W into 8 ohms for 15 minutes,”
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/n...KhRfyjFAMOC.99

First, one likely error you made: JA does not mention driving speakers at all. While he doesn't mention what's on the other end of the speaker wire, the safer assumption is that he was driving an 8 ohm resistor.

Second, "heatsink area" is the key here. Let's assume arguendo that they are in fact different amps. However, their mode of operation (Class G) is the same, as is their mass, form factor, and rated power. Do you allege that Outlaw added more heatsinking area than the A1, despite no increase in mass or size? If anything, the M2200 actually has slightly less heatsinking area, because its flat faceplate has a tiny bit less area than the A1's arced faceplate.

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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
My Sierra's aren't what most would consider efficient speakers. Cool to the touch at reference levels and they have never shut down in 2 years.
Here you err by assuming a statement of fact about the performance of an amplifier under test conditions should correlate with your experience. Here, that assumption does not hold.

Even “at reference levels” (whatever that means) you’re probably averaging closer to a Watt continuous (with brief peaks of much more) than 70W continuous. So yeah. the amp will run a lot cooler than in JA's torture test.

Basically all JA’s above statement means is, don’t use it to drive old Apogees or to drive a PA speaker outside because it's not designed with heat-sinking capabilities appropriate to those tasks. But if you do anyway, it will protect itself rather than burning up.

Keep in mind that NHT designed this amp to drive two 12” subwoofers in a small closed box with lots of low-end equalization. It clearly did so effectively, given that Stereophile rated the speaker system using it to do so as their then least-expensive Class A speaker system, and made no mention of excessive heat let alone shutdown in the text of the review. So yeah, it can probably drive speakers to any level they can reach for any length of time without getting too hot. Especially bass-managed speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Now lets compare Monoprice's 7 channel amp to ATI's 7 channel amp - the Mono is clearly a knockoff as well”
Another symptom of internet fanboi-ism is that the fanboi’s fingers tap much faster than s/he can actually process information.

Clearly we have two different situations here.

ATI (by all indications) makes the Monoprice amp. So, like the ATI Outlaws, it’s a rebrand. However, if Mono had taken the ATI amp design to a Chinese factory, then yes it would be a “knockoff.”

NHT commissioned this amp design for their Evolution system, starting probably in the late 1900s/early 2000s. Perhaps NHT didn’t contract for exclusivity, or the exclusivity language was leaky and the OEM could sell tweaked versions to third parties. Later, Outlaw offered a decontented version with a cheaper flat faceplate and one notable ergonomic improvement (3.5mm jacks instead of a wire harness for the 12V trigger). Some time after the NHT discontinued the A1, Outlaw revised their offering to add some NHT A1 features, such as balanced inputs, back.

Note that nothing above reflects in the least negatively on the product itself. It’s a fine amp. The only fault I’ve found is that their noise floor is higher than that of the best amps. My only contention is that by the reasonably available facts Outlaw's power rating is correct, not "VERY conservative." Only in Internetfanboi-land could calling a company honest be considered a slight!

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post #138 of 326 Old 08-23-2016, 10:14 AM
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Internet fanboi-ism is an interesting phenomenon. One of its symptoms is that a fanboi often mistakes a simple correction of fact for an slight on the object of her/his undying affection. With that said…
It's spelled fanboy, I have no loyalty to Outlaw other than what I bought from them has worked well for the time I've owned their products. Since I own equipment from Emo, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, SVS, PSA, Oppo, Ascend, etc. guess that makes me a fanboy of those companies too since I've posted about them as well. As for the Outlaw improving the sound of my speakers, I can't make those claims objectively, so I won't.

The fact remains that what the reviewer describes as occurring with what you claim to be a similar amp is not how the Outlaw's 2200 amp performs. I'm not going to dispute output since I don't own the equipment to conduct such tests and the benefits of adding additional wattage via an amp can be debated to no end on this forum - see sound improvement comment above as another example of debated subjects. As I said, from my experience and others who own these amps they don't shut down when being asked to drive speakers at levels great then 70 watts after only 15 minutes, don't get HOT to the touch after only 15 minutes, don't require special consideration regarding ventilation. The fact that the amp the reviewer was using exhibited those characteristics can easily lead one to believe that the two amps are anything but similar. See owners comments - I'm not the only crazy one I mean fanboi

Thanks again for a reply that wasn't unexpected. Can always count on the consistency of certain AVSers. The Monoprice/ATI comparison was meant to be absurd - point made

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post #139 of 326 Old 08-23-2016, 10:24 AM
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The "Official" Outlaw 2200 Monoblock Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
[a bunch of stuff indicating s/he didn't read the quoted post carefully before replying]

Sigh. Just breathe deeply and say the following three times:

"Test bench conditions are not use conditions."

OR, find a suitable 8 ohm resistor bank and a voltmeter, use a source to set one of your amps output a 1kHz sine wave at 23.7V, and see how hot the amp gets/how long it takes to protect itself by shutting down.

For the latter I'm guessing about 15 mins, give or take.

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post #140 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 02:47 PM
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Just wondering if any of you are just running one of these for just a Center channel while powering everything else with an AVR. I've got a Denon 6200 running a 5.1.4 setup (SVS ultra bookshelf & center up front...prime bookshelfs and sats for the rest) and thought about getting a monoblock for the center channel to take some of the load off the denon as I've noticed i've got to turn it up louder to get to the same perceived volume compared to just 5.1 Just wondering if I'm thinking this out correctly as i know nothing about separates...i've only ever had AVRs. I guess if I can extend the lifespan of the Denon and possibly increase sound quality then it'd be worth the money for it.
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post #141 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 03:19 PM
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Just wondering if any of you are just running one of these for just a Center channel while powering everything else with an AVR. I've got a Denon 6200 running a 5.1.4 setup (SVS ultra bookshelf & center up front...prime bookshelfs and sats for the rest) and thought about getting a monoblock for the center channel to take some of the load off the denon as I've noticed i've got to turn it up louder to get to the same perceived volume compared to just 5.1 Just wondering if I'm thinking this out correctly as i know nothing about separates...i've only ever had AVRs. I guess if I can extend the lifespan of the Denon and possibly increase sound quality then it'd be worth the money for it.
You talking about the 2200?
Sure, but it will deliver twice the power the Denon does per channel. Still shouldn't be an issue. Although, most folks would get 2 for the L-R channels. Any reason you can't just turn up the gain on your center channel in the Denon?
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post #142 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 03:59 PM
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You talking about the 2200?
Sure, but it will deliver twice the power the Denon does per channel. Still shouldn't be an issue. Although, most folks would get 2 for the L-R channels. Any reason you can't just turn up the gain on your center channel in the Denon?
Yes i'm talking about the 2200. I was wondering if the power difference between the amp and avr would be an issue but I guess Audyssey just makes everything to the proper levels right?

I can't afford two (and honestly I can't even afford one as my budget was $300 but i'm willing to stretch a bit) so I was thinking of just getting one for the center channel since that does most of the heavy lifting for movies (which is 98% of my usage in my setup).

I don't want just the Center to be louder (in relation to the other speakers) I was just noticing that I had to turn the volume up more to get to the same perceived volume (from all speakers) after i switched from 5.1 to 5.1.4 and thought running a separate for the Center would lighten the load on the Denon and potentially make it last longer. I could be thinking about this all wrong (i've got no experience at all with separate amps). Basically I used to watch movies with the volume at about -12dB or so when it was just a 5.1 setup (with a Denon X2000) and now I'm turning it up to -5dB or so with a 5.1.4 setup to get what seems like the same volume as in the past.

Am i just trying to unnecessarily spend money (wouldn't be the first time)?

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post #143 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike View Post
Yes i'm talking about the 2200. I was wondering if the power difference between the amp and avr would be an issue but I guess Audyssey just makes everything to the proper levels right?

I can't afford two (and honestly I can't even afford one as my budget was $300 but i'm willing to stretch a bit) so I was thinking of just getting one for the center channel since that does most of the heavy lifting for movies (which is 98% of my usage in my setup).
Most speakers will have a slightly different "voice" with increased power, depending on the amount of bass. On an 80Hz crossover it will be pretty small. FWIW, the 2200 is cheaper if you buy 2. They occasionally have refurbs too, give them a call.

Frankly, if you're after the result of getting more power per channel from the AVR, replacing one channel isn't going to do much if anything.
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post #144 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Most speakers will have a slightly different "voice" with increased power, depending on the amount of bass. On an 80Hz crossover it will be pretty small. FWIW, the 2200 is cheaper if you buy 2. They occasionally have refurbs too, give them a call.

Frankly, if you're after the result of getting more power per channel from the AVR, replacing one channel isn't going to do much if anything.


Hmmm..well dang...was hoping i could solve my "issue" for under $300ish. yeah i cross over my lcr at 80Hz (an svs PC-12 Plus takes things from there), Well maybe i'll just keep an eye out on their b-stock and the classifieds here and see if i can find multiples for cheap. Or are there any 3 (or 5) channel amps i should be on the look out for so i can run my lcr off that? My issue doesn't really affect my current movie experience as I still listen at the same level....just bugs me that I've gotta turn my AVR up higher to do it....i need it to last cause we've got a baby on the way and there's no way my wife will let me buy another receiver that costs that much.
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post #145 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucky Strike View Post
Hmmm..well dang...was hoping i could solve my "issue" for under $300ish. yeah i cross over my lcr at 80Hz (an svs PC-12 Plus takes things from there), Well maybe i'll just keep an eye out on their b-stock and the classifieds here and see if i can find multiples for cheap. Or are there any 3 (or 5) channel amps i should be on the look out for so i can run my lcr off that? My issue doesn't really affect my current movie experience as I still listen at the same level....just bugs me that I've gotta turn my AVR up higher to do it....i need it to last cause we've got a baby on the way and there's no way my wife will let me buy another receiver that costs that much.
The $300-350 price ranges gives you a pretty decent selection of used 2-ch amps. You'll get more bang for your bucks by amping the L-R channels.
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post #146 of 326 Old 12-05-2016, 09:31 PM
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The $300-350 price ranges gives you a pretty decent selection of used 2-ch amps. You'll get more bang for your bucks by amping the L-R channels.
Or, you could even get a new amp like THIS

I just ordered 2 new M2200's for my L&R, total cost was $679
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post #147 of 326 Old 12-08-2016, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Or, you could even get a new amp like THIS

I just ordered 2 new M2200's for my L&R, total cost was $679
I haven't heard or used the Crown XLS 1002 but they sound like the ideal solution for your budget and needs, Lucky Strike.

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post #148 of 326 Old 12-13-2016, 06:36 AM
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Outlaw Christmas sale includes the 2200, if anybody is considering. Cheaper than the multi-unit cost and free shipping.

https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/Holiday2016.html
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post #149 of 326 Old 12-13-2016, 06:58 AM
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Outlaw Christmas sale includes the 2200, if anybody is considering. Cheaper than the multi-unit cost and free shipping.

https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/Holiday2016.html
+1 Must resist buying more because I love the 3 I use for my fronts. Auto on function works great so you don't have to mess with triggers and they continue to amaze me at how cool they run despite being pushed, stacked and living in cabinet. Great deal if anyone is looking to buy a couple of amps for making the jump to Atmos/X and have only 9 channels of power via receiver and are going with 7.x.4. Take a load off your receiver and feed your FL/FR some nice clean power. At this price you are likely to break even if you ever decide to sell them too. They hold their value extremely well.

My purchase of Oppo's 203 yesterday is making the resist part a little easier this morning.

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post #150 of 326 Old 12-13-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Outlaw Christmas sale includes the 2200, if anybody is considering. Cheaper than the multi-unit cost and free shipping.

https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/Holiday2016.html
Of course they are on sale now, since I bought 2 of them last week

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