EAR PAIN with new home theater! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 79 Old 06-22-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glegiehn View Post

Must be the system . . .


Good news with the ears. Bad news for you to figure out what the problem may be.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #32 of 79 Old 08-02-2013, 08:43 AM
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Hi,

I know this thread is already 2 years old, but I hope you're still there!

Have you found a solution?? I'm having the same problem over and over. Exactly the same as you: ear clogging - it feels like pressure I'd say -after short time listening and regardless of volume level. I have the heco Metas 500 although I have had the wharfedale crystal before that. I had the same problem with the wharfedale, I switched to the Metas with no difference (it sounded better though, so I kept them). I also exchanged my receiver to rule that out, too. I went from a rather bright Yamaha to a bassy Pioneer with no difference. I also went to the doctor, I have no problems. I went to a special chiropractor because I had a little car accident, nothing severe, someone bumped against my bumper at a traffic light. I got my new system at the time of the accident and I thought it might have to do something with it. I'm still not quite sure if there is a connection. Maybe it IS room acoustics. My room is quite big too, a lot of windows with a high ceiling. I too have a beam across the ceiling. The room is L-shaped. Another thing I'm looking into is distortion through the power source. Maybe a net filter could help?

Anyway, it would be cool if you could tell me what you have found out or done about the problem.

(pardon my English, I'm no native speaker)
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post #33 of 79 Old 08-02-2013, 09:01 AM
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Oh I forgot: before I switched to fullrange speakers I had satellites with no low end. I didn't have problems with them. So I suspect it is either the low end or the psychoacoustic range. My satellites couldn't produce either of them. And I tried treating my room a bit by putting rockwool in the corners. The Bass sounds better now, but the problem is still there. Someone in another forum suggested treating the ceiling because I have an awful flutter echo (which also might be the reason for the problem). That's my next step. Still, I'd appreciate any help or additional information.
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post #34 of 79 Old 08-05-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ballares View Post

there are no lasting effects on the ear/brain once a listening event completes.thanks msAq

Of course there can be lasting and permanent effects on the ear/brain once a listening event completes. Articles on noise-induced (permanent) hearing loss:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise-induced_hearing_loss
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/hearing/pages/noise.aspx
http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/noise/signs.htm
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post #35 of 79 Old 06-27-2015, 11:30 AM
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Please help

Hi,
I saw your post on the ear pain with the home theater sound. I have the same problem with my new system. I have B&W 684 with Marantz. Can you please help with what was the final solution you fixed the issue? Your last post says you had the expert coming to your house to look at it.

Thanks,
Amar
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post #36 of 79 Old 10-07-2019, 07:51 PM
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Hello, did somebody figured it out? I have the same symptoms. Clogged ears. Pain after listening in low volumes. Decibeles checked.

Long story short:
1) For years I had some old Sony amp from '90 + old Sony 3-way stereo speakers. Everything OK. Amp died.
2) Yamaha receiver + those Sony speakers, or Yamaha cheap speakers - OK. Receiver died.
3) When demoed at home for a new amp, I heard Cambrige CXA-60, some Onkyo, Denon PMA-1600NE - with my old Sony speakers and cheap cables. OK.

4) I've bought Denon PMA-1600NE. Running digitally from TV and PC:
+ old 3-way Sony stereo speakers / Yamaha speakers on CHEAP cables - OK
+ NHT3, some floorstanders, Focal Aria 906, Sonus Faber Sonetto II on GOOD cables, different tweeters - fatigue, sooner or later. Better the equipment the more fatigue. I blamed my room. I blamed too loud listening. I started to meter decibeles and I went 50 - 60 max. I did not listened them too loud. Normally I listen much louder in the same room with no problems.
+ Sonus Faber Olympica I and audioquest cables - TOTAL DISASTER. (I loved the sound. Made me sing with the singer. Made me audio shy in 4 days.) I returned them to the shop.

I BLAMED THE ROOM. Checked myself at ear specialist. Hearing completely fine. My room is 16 m2, not ideally treated, but not so small...
I played in a band. I tolerate my loud audio in car, any loud noises outside or inside my room, any hum, dogs barking loudly at my ears, working with loud machine time to time, no problem!

I decided to keep my old Sony speakers and at least buy them new cables. Brought home Eagle cable silverline, decent quality. Copper + silver. Perfect improvement in sound quality - tighter bass. Cleared, sounded like a new speakers. MY EARS HURT AGAIN immediately. I turned down the bass. It still hurt. Turn down all sound now...

Any ideas what is wrong? Could it be faulty amplifier??? Or my room not able to play wide range frequencies or something? But how it does that with bad copper cable I have no problem? No problem at any headphones I've ever own. Using headset for calls daily.

Please help. I'm prone to believe some high frequency in amp might be doing this. But I'm audio-user, not builder.
Once, I've returned new laptop for hearing high pitched sound from it, I took the same model but another manufactured piece and there was no sound. Later manufacturer Acer admitted some pieces had bad transistors and somepeople were able to hear it and they pulled it down from the market.

My amp Denon PMA-1600NE is still in warranty for 3 months I think. But they look at me weird at the shop when they took back Olympica I and where I've bought Denon amp too... They did not believe my story I think. I could try to ask them but I want to be sure, to have some answers first.
There simply must be some reason for what is happening to me.

Summary: Pain in ears at low volume, quickly developed, happens when I change something in my audio setup.
Please help. Thank you. I'm sorry for my English, it's not my native language. Edit - spelling.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T

Last edited by Greywolfin; 10-07-2019 at 08:09 PM.
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post #37 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 01:50 AM
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When there is pain in your ears it could be a serious problem. I would not seek advice on forums: I would visit a hearing specialist: a doctor or audiologist.
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post #38 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 05:45 AM
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You said that switching to Pure Direct was more comfortable. In this mode, the subs are turned off, as well as all other speakers except the front L and R. I wonder then if you unplug the subs and play the rest of the system speakers if the problem persists. If not, then it's the subs themselves or their location perhaps. If the problem persists with the subs off, then perhaps its some of the other speakers in the room, like the ceiling mounted ones, etc. You may want to try and systematically turn the speakers off and go through the whole setup to see if you can isolate the offending speaker or speakers. And if none of that works, then try swapping out the receiver.
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post #39 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 06:41 AM
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Hello, thank you for today's reply. I now see maybe I should post it alone as new story, but my story is not much different than the story of the founder - the symptoms are same. This is new story, new author.
Original story was left unresolved so I hope to continue, maybe the author found a reason and a solution?

So, this is my second post here today and my problems are recent, not the old ones.

I have 2.0 stereo setup with Denon PMA-1600NE integrated stereo amp. No sub. Specs are written above.
Source direct mode (unequlised) causing same symptoms as equalised sound. More auditionered speakers did the same, but setup was always 2.0. More cables do the same effect.
One speaker behaved very differently with different cables - I changed cables form copper to copper/silver and I cannot stand speakers I happily owned and listened for 9 years on 3 amps in the same room!

I was checked by specialist in hospital during the Sonus Faber Olympica I testing (2 months ago) and she said she found absolutely nothing wrong with my ears. Didn't even see my ears hurting in any way.
According to tests I hear much better the usual for my age (33). Pain was sudden and I immediately switched stereo off after it occured in intensity.

I try to solve it and not damage myself. I'm taking quiet time now.
But I need to find out where the problem is. Could it be such terrible room or damaged amplifier? Or something else?

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #40 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
When there is pain in your ears it could be a serious problem. I would not seek advice on forums: I would visit a hearing specialist: a doctor or audiologist.
Yeah this is something else now. You just said that when you talked to the doctor there was nothing wrong with your ears. But it could still be a medical condition that are only being triggered during noises that brings stress to your eardrums. So you know, health first.
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post #41 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 06:55 AM
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I wanted a better setup - so I auditioned new speakers at home. This is how I found the problem, my ear pain.

The problem always occur in my room when Denon PMA-1600NE is in the setup.
I had different amps in time, but I ran them by copper cable and Sony or Yamaha speakers that caused no problem for Denon too.

I do not have different amp now.
I have different cables - differences: Cheap copper one has no problem.
I auditioned different speakers - differences: Results wary, might be also dependant on used cables?
Room is average/poor treated, no basstrap, but I ran 2.0 (cheaper) setup in it for 9 years with no problems.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #42 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Marine121 View Post
Yeah this is something else now. You just said that when you talked to the doctor there was nothing wrong with your ears. But it could still be a medical condition that are only being triggered during noises that brings stress to your eardrums. So you know, health first.
I know. I do not take health risks. Sound is completely turned off now.
If symptoms are not better quickly I go back to hospital. It was an audiology specialist who said I'm OK (just turn it off) during the first big problem (which took 3 days of silence to disappear).

This just happened again so strongly as I fiddled with new cable for my old (and with old cable perfectly not hurting me) Sony speakers.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #43 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 08:17 AM
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Use the old cables and problem solved.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #44 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Use the old cables and problem solved.
Well. Yes, I'm going to. For now.

But this problem should be solved somehow - and my amp is still in warranty if it's to blame, for example.
I certainly deserve better than to run 1600 EUR amp with 50 EUR bazar speakers and 5 EUR cables for long years to come.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #45 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 09:03 AM
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Why worry about the speaker wire? Just use wires that don't hurt your ears and enjoy the amp and speakers.
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If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #46 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 09:50 AM
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Why worry about the speaker wire? Just use wires that don't hurt your ears and enjoy the amp and speakers.
My old Sony speakers are poor sound quality and sound through the old cheap wire is very muddy in the bass. Better wire would (and did) solve the muddyness. Add ear pain too, of course.

The core of the problem is that I tried to buy some new better quality speakers (and we are talking even 4000 EUR speakers) and it was impossible for ear discomfort. I failed several times. And nobody in the shop was able to explain what happened. That is not right. Usually you when you have bad acoustics you just throw away money because it does not play better than cheaper options. You don't get pain in ears. It's not normal.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #47 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 11:08 AM
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Well... I hope you find the cause of your "problems". Either the system sounds good or it doesn't. Changing/upgrading speakers, amps, acoustics and especially speaker wire should not cause ear pain that lasts for days.


Let us know what you determine to be the cause.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #48 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 03:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greywolfin View Post
My old Sony speakers are poor sound quality and sound through the old cheap wire is very muddy in the bass. Better wire would (and did) solve the muddyness. Add ear pain too, of course.

The core of the problem is that I tried to buy some new better quality speakers (and we are talking even 4000 EUR speakers) and it was impossible for ear discomfort. I failed several times. And nobody in the shop was able to explain what happened. That is not right. Usually you when you have bad acoustics you just throw away money because it does not play better than cheaper options. You don't get pain in ears. It's not normal.
Bad acoustics, just like good acoustics, just like the sound in general, is made by THE ROOM!
Cables, that are thick enough to light a conventional lamp, are thick enough and can safely be ignored. Your personal daily mood has a magnitude higher impact on audio perception than any cable.
What counts is the room's acoustics.
There you probably get the pain from.

If you are using a RoomEQ system, like Audyssey, it could theoretically also be a too dull measurement mic, resulting in a too bright sound.


But my bet is definately on the room and trying to play loud. Listening loud in small untreated rooms kills ears like earbuds or headphones do.

Last edited by Skinfax1; 10-08-2019 at 03:14 PM.
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post #49 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 05:30 PM
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But my bet is definately on the room and trying to play loud. Listening loud in small untreated rooms kills ears like earbuds or headphones do.
I agree my room needs treatment, it is planned as a next step of reconstruction of the house.

When this hurt happened I was playing quietly. 50, max 55 decibels. I measured it. Source direct mode, then shortly treble and bass down, then I must shut it off.
Because I had problems I always measure loudness when having new thing since certain time. I'm sure it was not loud.

We can say it's the bright sound, but ... one cable exchange should not lead almost to hospital in mere one evening.
It's 24 hours, I'm recuperating, still have full ears feeling and I'm hypersensitive to loud sounds now. (same development as the first time, which means I should be ok soon and if not I go to specialist doctor tomorow. I add magnesium immediately. I unplugged my setup and play TV from TV speakers very silently and it's more pleasant to hear something than complete silence).

So what is SAFE? Sell the Denon/send it to warranty check/try different amp?
Run the old setup? Is it really safe to run old setup for me IN MY ROOM when mere change of the cable did this? Yes, I'm scared about my hearing.

I wonder what if the amp has some oscillation in high frequency, elevated with better wire/better speakers? Could this happen in real life? Maybe it's nonsence. I'm no ingeneer, I'm just asking.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #50 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
If you are using a RoomEQ system, like Audyssey, it could theoretically also be a too dull measurement mic, resulting in a too bright sound.
(edit - quote)

It's stereo 2.0 amp. It has Source direct mode which I usually use + bass / treble / balance.
I've noticed little change fiddling with TREBLE. To put put down BASS felt little better.

If we blame it to the room only, something like amp with Dirac might help?

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #51 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 06:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greywolfin View Post
When this hurt happened I was playing quietly. 50, max 55 decibels. I measured it. Source direct mode, then shortly treble and bass down, then I must shut it off.
Because I had problems I always measure loudness when having new thing since certain time. I'm sure it was not loud.
At such a low volume?
Then the room's acoustics seems not to be the source of the problem.



The body always signals, if something is good or harmful. But being constantly bombarded by sounds, music, noise and flashing lights most ppl cannot hear these gentle signals anymore - until it's too late and the immune system is no longer strong enough to keep the problem under control and a severe illness takes place.



There probably were signals some time ago but you ignored them. Now the body is already signalling very loudly HEY, PAY ATTENTION!




Are you exposed to permanent noise at work, like computer fans? Refrigerator? Air conditioning?

Do you have a newly erected windmill "close" to your house? A new cellphone tower? Are you using bluetooth headsets or keeping other pulsed high frequency transmitters (smartphone), close to the body for hours?



If you have found a suspicion of an acoustic source at a certain location, you could wear eartips for a few hours and pay attention, if you feel better after some time in that specific location.

Last edited by Skinfax1; 10-08-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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post #52 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 06:40 PM
 
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I just read your first comment. Stupid idea, but is this Denon a Class-D, digital amp?



If you replace only the amp with an analogue one, do the symptoms persist?
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post #53 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 06:55 PM
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The Denon PMA-1600NE is class AB.
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post #54 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Skinfax1 View Post
I just read your first comment. Stupid idea, but is this Denon a Class-D, digital amp?



If you replace only the amp with an analogue one, do the symptoms persist?
Yes I run Denon only on digital sources and only digital part of this amp.
1) USB + PS4 + TV antennae source -> external unit of Samsung QLED TV -> optical PCM to Denon
2) PC desktop -> red Audioquest USB cable -> Denon

This Denon has separate analogue only part / mode, but I have no analogue source to add anymore.

I played Sony amp (analogue), Yamaha receiver (analogue, digital), Cambridge Audio CXA80 or 60 (digital) and two cheap Onkyos (digital, analogue input) in this room over years. I do not recall having any problems then. Bookshelves only. 16 m2. Long timed listening volume 50-60 usual / 70 rarely, shortly and max decibels.

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #55 of 79 Old 10-08-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The Denon PMA-1600NE is class AB.
Full specifications of Denon PMA-1600NE

Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
Samsung QE65Q9FN / previously Samsung UE65KS8002T
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post #56 of 79 Old 10-09-2019, 12:53 AM
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If your ears are fine, see if your doctor can refer you to a neurologist. Something like this can easily be caused by something not very good in the brain. Especially if the physiology appears normal.
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post #57 of 79 Old 10-09-2019, 03:04 AM
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I do have ear problems, Meniere's disease, causing tinnitus, and fortunately not vertigo). I've done a lot of reading on audio as it relates to ear problems. This is not normal and your ears are telling you something you need to pay attention to. They are telling you they don't like what you are doing to them. And yes permanent damage can be caused, as noted above.

All the people reporting problems in this thread are experiencing hyperacusis, or sensitivity to sound. Not all sounds, but maybe in certain frequencies. I'd try test tones and a meter (or REW) with the denon and figure out if it's putting out a spike in a frequency that is driving you bonkers. Use ear protection when you do so. (over ear, not in ear, you can get a set of ear cans from home depot. Any one doing room calibration should where over ear protection. You don't want to test if your ears respond, just look for spikes that may be and indication of something at fault with your receiver ) Alternatively, if the denon is the common denominator, it'd be out of my house so fast.... I might not even bother testing.

Sound is typically a good therapy for stuff like this, at low levels. After almost quitting audio, I started using music (at low levels) to habituate my brain to the tinnitus. To do this you listen to music at such a level that you can still hear your tinnitus, don't drown it out, and focus your brain on enjoying the music. It has worked pretty good over the years. I mostly go through a day and don't notice my tinnitus too much even though it varies sometimes from day to day, somedays almost silent, some days like a locomotive going through my head. (Cold fronts oddly aggravate it and make it worse, a sign of Meneire's and not noise induced tinnitus.

All was good until last December when I was in a car wreck. 7 airbags went off in the car. An airbag is about 170 db. The car dealer told me they have a device for setting off air bags that they use for airbag recalls as they can't throw them away that way. He said it's like a cannon going off. My neurotologist (part neurologist part ent) gave me steroids, then steroid injections in my ears and I took magnesium for 6 months and am now back to where I was before the wreck, but I suffered some additional hearing loss from it, but I still don't need hearing aids. Although I now do get variable hyperacusis some now, but mostly it's things like the church organ that drive me bonkers so I just discretely put in ear plugs when they play it.

I'd have suspected subs, but the latest respondent doesn't have subs. The sub forum had a whole thread years ago with tons of people experiencing tinnitus. I don't have a sub so I haven't been to check on that in a long time. I just bought a good full range speaker and don't worry about subs.

Sorry for the rambling. The moral to the story, is protect your ears!!! Enjoy your hobby, but protect!

Supercharged Song Towers, Oppo BDP-203, Anthem MRX-520, LG B6 OLED
Headphone Rig: Oppo BDP-95, Burson Audio Soloist MKII Headphone amp/ Sennheiser HD800S, Sennheiser HD650

Last edited by glangford; 10-09-2019 at 03:07 AM.
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post #58 of 79 Old 10-11-2019, 12:12 PM
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I appreciate all the comments.

4th day, my hyperacusis does not recede, problem is slightly better but ongoing. When I hear sounds I physically feel a pressure in my ears after a short time. If I'm not OK till Monday I go to hospital.
I had complete MRI of my head done 5 years ago for another reason. Nothing wrong was found.
I live in coutryside, queit zone, working from home office. No loud sounds here...

This is ridiculous and outrageous, this whole situation. I exchanged one wire (or speakers first time), played low volume (55 decibels) and everything was plugged in the right way!

When my hearing is back to normal I will either get some calibrated microphone and/or a different amp.
I will post news for anybody encountering the same problem.

If anything came up to your minds, please, discuss it. Any suggestion is a help for me.
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Denon PMA-1600NE + Sony SS-A590
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post #59 of 79 Old 10-12-2019, 02:41 AM
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5 years is plenty of time for something unpleasant to develop in the head, unfortunately. And something could be overlooked simply because you didn't experience any issues - if it was a tiny problem it could be easily missed and grew much bigger today.

Hopefully if there is any problem it's still in early stages and can be cured. None of this "walking dead man" or "your were only hours away".

Or it ends up being some benign problem like some parasite somehow ended up living in your ear canal. Gross, but easily removed and harmless.

Best wishes.
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post #60 of 79 Old 10-12-2019, 03:44 AM
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As stated somewhere above I have the same problem.
What I have found out so far is this:

It has nothing to do with Amps or Receivers. I have tried four different manufacturers. No change.

Room acoustics are part of the problem, as slight room treatment (basetraps, absorbers) have made it easier to listen to music.

Apart from that, even changing the room (I moved two years ago) didnt solve the problem.

Im having most of my problems with bass. After getting rid of my shelf speaker and subwoofer combo and buying a full range standing speaker it improved a lot. I dont use a sub anymore.

Speaker placement in the room is crucial. Its a matter off centimenters but sometimes there is a huge difference in only 1-2cm.

Decent room correction helps, too. I now use Audyssey XT, the new version which lets you do changes via the app.
For stereo a good parametric equalizer should be fine, too.

I can now listen to music again comfortably. From time to time I get the problems again (cant explain why). Then I just switch off. The next day it can be good again without having changed anything. Very strange. I also suspected the power grid itself, but since I have moved without any change that doesnt make sense anymore.

I also highly suspect that we are hypersensitive to a certain frequency and/or phase differnces (which by themselves can boost/kill frequencies).
New, better speakers (and maybe even new wires, if you beleive so) probably reproduce the given frequency better, which makes it sound better but also causes our problems.

Try some of the suggestion above. Id start with the equalizer.
The problem is after every change you have to wait until the pain dissolves to see if it is any better.
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