Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 27461 Old 01-06-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

+1 to all that. I have room treatments now, but they have been placed by following recommendations rather than by relying on measurements. Chances are they are OK but it will be nice to verify this once I get started on REW. Am also looking forward to running REW tomorrow* per Feri's suggestion and getting to know the menu layouts etc. 

Am off to watch Die Hard 2 now (from the BD box set. I am having a Bruce week smile.gif

I saw Feri's email--I may try the same tomorrow night. I've never went the treatment route (unless you consider a carpeted living room an uncontrolled dampening effect LOL) due to aesthetics/WAF, but if we're really digging deeper into the rabbit hole, it can't be avoided at least thinking about in response to measured deficits in various domains. Even Audyssey Pro can always do so much....

Enjoy Bruce before we all head off to 'grad school' cool.gif

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post #32 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Oooh... no I haven't tried this. I wondered if I needed to wait till I had the mic before loading up REW. Yes, I downloaded REW beta and ASIO, so I will give this a try tomorrow. Thanks. Feri.

Now, if you engage channel #4 the test signal will be routed to your subwoofer channel in the AVP. If you set the Generator to Log Sweep and start from 10 Hz say up to 200 Hz and set a duration of 60 seconds, you will be able to carefully hear by ear how your subs perform and at what frequency they start to kick-in.. But most interesting will be to hear the rattling of "stuff" in your room. You can determine the resonance frequency of your "stuff", and take measures to get rid of them. How to get rid of them is another story, maybe a "rattling stuff" forum can help. cool.giftongue.gifwink.gif

 

Wahey!  Thanks Feri. This is on my agenda for today.

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post #33 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

 

I can generate these graphs, but here are the uncertainties:

 

- Did I configure the graphs properly?  Are the horizontal and vertical scales set properly?  What are the various settings in the "Controls" panel for each type of graph?  (Amir, who I see has already provided a link to his thread over on the WhatsBetterForum.com, provides some good examples of how to configure Waterfalls, but I'm not sure I understand it all.  BTW, welcome, Amir!)

 

- How should the speakers be configured before taking these measurements?  Do I measure one speaker at a time for ETC?  Does the waterfall need all subs as well as the main speakers in the measurement?  Is Audyssey on or off?  Do I take measurements only at the MLP, or at several spots in the room?

 

- What do the graphs show?  Does the Waterfall show any resonances that need to be looked at, or does the graph show something that is "good enough"? 

 

- It's easy to see the reflections in the ETC graph.  Are the reflections significant enough to warrant treatments?  Should all the peaks be below -20dB?  There are two early reflections at 7m and 11.3m.  How can I tell which surfaces in my room are causing these reflections?

 

- Once I know what I am looking at, what are the various methods to address the problems?  Should I go out and buy a roll of pink fluffy?  ;)

 

I figure that once I master these topics, I could start advertising my services as an audio consultant here in Austin!

 

Brilliant. This is what I think many of us want. Your experience here is invaluable Jerry - sometimes it isn't the answers that are the most important thing - it's knowing what the questions are!

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post #34 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

+1 to all that. I have room treatments now, but they have been placed by following recommendations rather than by relying on measurements. Chances are they are OK but it will be nice to verify this once I get started on REW. Am also looking forward to running REW tomorrow* per Feri's suggestion and getting to know the menu layouts etc. 

Am off to watch Die Hard 2 now (from the BD box set. I am having a Bruce week smile.gif

I saw Feri's email--I may try the same tomorrow night. I've never went the treatment route (unless you consider a carpeted living room an uncontrolled dampening effect LOL) due to aesthetics/WAF, but if we're really digging deeper into the rabbit hole, it can't be avoided at least thinking about in response to measured deficits in various domains. Even Audyssey Pro can always do so much....

Enjoy Bruce before we all head off to 'grad school' cool.gif

 

WAF is always an issue of course. I am very lucky there - Mrs Keith is very tolerant. And I have my own dedicated room. (But that was also with consent from Mrs Keith of course).

 

Die Hard 2 is the worst of the four but it was still worth seeing again after all this time - it is better on BD than I have ever seen it. Sound is typical of the era - not bad but not on a par with current standards. Die Hard 3 tonight (I watched 4 first).

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post #35 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I was of a similar mind to you SoM. I bought the OmniMic and it really is as easy to use as everyone says....Hope this has helped in some way.
Thnx so much, Keith, very clear and helpful summary. Your contributions on the threads are awesome! smile.gif

I also had the OM but returned it within the 30d period after just a few measurements as I didn't have the time to use it-and I was hoping something like this very exciting development in REW might occur. This is a very affordable option with a great on-line support community, just what I was looking for!
More newb questions soon to follow...biggrin.gif

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #36 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Yeah, probably the biggest advantages here are:
1. Once the MiniDSP UMIK-1 usb microphone is plugged into the laptop REW will simply suck in the mic's calibrations file.
2. Latest laptops with HDMI will allow in conjunction with ASIO4ALL driver to turn REW into an 8 channel monster letting the users send test signals to any speaker in the system or any two (like L+sub).

Sorry about my very basic newb questions here.
This laptop is what I use for my Pro calibrations. It is not the "latest" but was designed for gaming/"HT" and has HDMI as well as 1/8" line in and line out audio:
Lenovo IdeaPad Y710 4054 Laptop Computer

Operating System Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
Networking Ethernet (10/100 Mbps), Wireless Ethernet - 11 Mbps IEEE802.11b, Wireless Ethernet - 54 Mbps IEEE802.11a, Wireless Ethernet - 54 Mbps IEEE802.11g, Wireless Ethernet - 540 Mbps IEEE802.11n
Display Type Active Matrix LCD (TFT)
Interface Type Audio - Line In (1/8" Mini), Audio - Line Out (1/8" Mini), Bluetooth, Ethernet - RJ45 Twisted-Pair (XBaseT), FireWire 400/IEEE 1394 - 4 pin, HDMI, Serial - RJ11 Modular (Phone/Telco), USB - Universal Serial Bus 2.0, Video - S-Video, Video - 15 pin High-Density D-shell (VGA)
Included Drives DVD+-RW DL
Video Chipset ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600 XT
Processor Type Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile
Screen Size 17
Processor Speed 1830
Installed Memory 2000
Hard Drive Size 250000

Feri, does this laptop allow me to take full advantage of what you refer to in #2?

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #37 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I was of a similar mind to you SoM. I bought the OmniMic and it really is as easy to use as everyone says....Hope this has helped in some way.
Thnx so much, Keith, very clear and helpful summary. Your contributions on the threads are awesome! smile.gif

I also had the OM but returned it within the 30d period after just a few measurements as I didn't have the time to use it-and I was hoping something like this very exciting development in REW might occur. This is a very affordable option with a great on-line support community, just what I was looking for!
More newb questions soon to follow...biggrin.gif

 

<blush>  Thanks SoM.  Yes, Jason has tapped into a big pent-up demand I think - full-scale measuring for less than 100 bucks - has to be the way to go. 

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post #38 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 09:48 AM
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I will answer in RED/Bold below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

First of all, thanks to Jason for being the thread-starter, and for providing a nice introduction to what I hope will be interesting and productive discussions.  And second, thanks to Keith for transferring the useful posts from the Audyssey thread, and for volunteering to help assemble and maintain a FAQ.  Guys, I want to help as well--please let me know how I can contribute.

In addition to learning how to simplify my REW kit with the USB mic and HDMI connection (which will need to wait until the UMM-6 is shipping), here are examples of what I hope to get out of this thread.  Here are two recent measurements of my system, a waterfall and an ETC:

700

Plot waterfalls are usually done 45-105 db, this seems to be the std for comparison

700


I can generate these graphs, but here are the uncertainties:

- Did I configure the graphs properly?  Are the horizontal and vertical scales set properly?  What are the various settings in the "Controls" panel for each type of graph?  (Amir, who I see has already provided a link to his thread over on the WhatsBetterForum.com, provides some good examples of how to configure Waterfalls, but I'm not sure I understand it all.  BTW, welcome, Amir!)

- How should the speakers be configured before taking these measurements?  No EQ, same position as you listen to them in
Do I measure one speaker at a time for ETC?  Yes - you solve each speaker separately
Does the waterfall need all subs as well as the main speakers in the measurement?  You can test subs separately then with mains to see your xover integration
Is Audyssey on or off?  Off to analysis and apply treatments, then on to compare
Do I take measurements only at the MLP, or at several spots in the room? Up to you, do you want 1 great seat or many good sounding seats?

- What do the graphs show?  Does the Waterfall show any resonances that need to be looked at, or does the graph show something that is "good enough"? 

- It's easy to see the reflections in the ETC graph.  Are the reflections significant enough to warrant treatments?  Should all the peaks be below -20dB?  There are two early reflections at 7m and 11.3m.  How can I tell which surfaces in my room are causing these reflections?
Did you see my earlier post here on ETC? You can track down the reflecting surface(s) via the string method and using a small piece of OC703 to confirm that is it

- Once I know what I am looking at, what are the various methods to address the problems?  Again, I posted info earlier on small room acoustic models, please look over that. It's up to you on how you want to attack your acoustics, that is why I posted the various small room acoustic models thread. For me, I'm using RFZ method with absorption
Should I go out and buy a roll of pink fluffy?  wink.gifOnly for big corner broadband bass traps

I figure that once I master these topics, I could start advertising my services as an audio consultant here in Austin!
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post #39 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Keith, have you downloaded REW and ASIO4ALL, yet? I suppose so. Then, while waiting for the deep dive into important measurements why not try your wings by clicking on Generator and see how you can steer around in your speaker system, one by one with some test tones or log sweeps via a simple listening test. It's fun to get acquainted with the bells and whistles of REW. smile.gif

 

Damn! I got the laptop out ready to have a go and although I was convinced I had a long HDMI cable (it has to reach from the HT room to the AVP which is in a separate room/closet) I don't. I have had to order one. As soon as it comes I will have a play...

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post #40 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 11:22 AM
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Here is good example of using ETC and the string method to track down by member "fotto"
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1374014/room-measurement-treatment#post_21345767
a pict from that thread
ETCtest3.jpg
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post #41 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 11:56 AM
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note/fyi: if you're performing the string test to identify the boundary incident of a particular indirect energy spike (specular reflection) as measured via the ETC, make sure your measurement setup/platform has hardware loopback and REW configured accordingly (eg, the direct signal within ETC should NOT correspond to 0ms but should instead correspond to the actual time (based on actual flight path) from source-to-receiver(mic) - with hardware propagation delay accounted for.

and yes, when performing this type of analysis, you should be measuring one source at a time --- that is, unless you are of the variety that likes to solve multi-var headaches (a + b + c = 5; solve for b).
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post #42 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Thanks for the thread smile.gif. It certainly fills a void on AVS in this regard.
I did a write-up of REW on the relationship between time and frequency domains and in there explained how critical it is to set such innocent looking parameters like the graph axis perspective. Without it, it is incredibly easy to get misleading data and arrive at the wrong conclusion. The thread, with a lot of measurements, examples and explanation of science/math, is on the first link of this google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awhatsbestforum.com+Acoustic+Measurements%3A+Understanding+Time+and+Frequency&rlz=1C1SNNT_enUS374US375&oq=site%3Awhatsbestforum.com+Acoustic+Measurements%3A+Understanding+Time+and+Frequency&aqs=chrome.0.57j58j61j60.5540&sugexp=chrome,mod=8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

FYI - this is the guy who didn't understand what the X-axis represented on the ETC (after "debating" it like an expert for many pages in an AVS thread), who didnt understand that we DONT use the ETC for LF analysis (modal region), who didn't know what the "E" in ETC stands for (the history: energy --> envelope ... google won't tell him that!), and also the guy that claimed that he sees "no reason for time-domain analysis in small rooms". remember that thread, amirm?

no offense but you should spend a little more time learning acoustics and acoustical analysis before ruining another thread here...

edit: oh, i just clicked his link. he goes on to display WATERFALL/CSD plots and insists on referring to it as the time-domain. sorry, guy - swing and a miss!
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post #43 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 12:23 PM
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if anyone is confused as to why time-domain analysis in small rooms is so "eye-opening" ... think of it like this:

the frequency response (frequency domain) simply provides the perspective of the end-state response (snap-shot) that is the result of all of the direct and indirect energy superposing at the receiver position (listening position/mic). the frequency response details you NOTHING with respect to how the indirect energy arrives at the listening position.

it's akin to a 40 car pile-up, where-by the frequency response merely shows the end state of the crash (end state response of ALL of the cars/signals combining).

it details you nothing with regards to the individual car's (indirect specular reflection's) gain (speed), direction of arrival (vector), and time arrival (as not all 40 cars/signals crashed into each other simultaneously). from here, one can isolate a particular indirect specular reflection to it's source boundary (eg, first-order sidewall reflection, edge diffraction from speaker cabinet, edge diffraction from small object placed within direct signal path, coffee table reflection, etc) - and make the decision (based on user requirements) on what to do (if anything). also useful for verifying the individual components of your source are properly aligned in time, and will clearly display sources of flutter echo (or reflections bouncing between two parallel surfaces - as the energy spikes will be of the same time (distance) spacings). if there is a severe coupling issue, that too can be visually identified - as one might wonder why energy is impeding the listening position BEFORE the direct signal (hint: speed of sound in a solid vs that of air).

eg, if one is looking for an accurate representation of the direct signal without the room masking or skewing localization and imaging, then one would identify any high-gain/sparse/early arriving indirect specular reflections via the ETC and attenuate as necessary by whatever means of treatment. verification can be provided once the treatment has been procured and placed to verify the root problem has been solved or addressed based on the user's design requirements.

and the ETC displays this information based on the ACTUAL source/receiver positions, room geometry, polar response of speakers, and complex acoustical impedance of the boundaries! something the "mirror" will NOT tell you.




merely another tool at one's disposal to provide the appropriate "perspective" for the particular task at hand.
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post #44 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Sorry about my very basic newb questions here.
This laptop is what I use for my Pro calibrations. It is not the "latest" but was designed for gaming/"HT" and has HDMI as well as 1/8" line in and line out audio:
Lenovo IdeaPad Y710 4054 Laptop Computer

Feri, does this laptop allow me to take full advantage of what you refer to in #2?

Hi SoM, I hope so.

But let's see. First, please download the latest versions of REW (5.01 Beta 12) and ASIO4ALL (2.11 Beta 1), if you haven't done so yet. Then in REW open Preferences -> Soundcard tab. In Drivers select ASIO, in ASIO Device select ASIO4ALL:



Now click on ASIO Control Panel. Hover mouse over Device List and look for 8 channel support. Click to activate it.



In REW Soundcard tab on the dropdown menu of Output now you should see 8 channels numbered 1-8. (Sorry if some text appears in Hungarian, "hangkimenet" means: "audio output")

1: LF
2: RF
3: CC
4: LFE
5: SL
6: SR
7: SBL
8: SBR



And finally your Denon should display: Multi CH IN and all 8 input indicators on the left side should be lit.



You need no other cable between laptop and AVR than 1 single HDMI cable. You may disconnect all analog audio cables you might have already hook up, no need for that kinda "stuff" anymore. cool.gif

Cross my fingers for Ya.
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post #45 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 01:45 PM
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Well, something isn't working.  Here is my ASIO control panel:

 

700

 

I only have HD Audio Device and Realtek HD Audio Device.  All show Out: 2x (no 8-channel output).  Does this mean my laptop will not support the 8 channels?

 

In addition, when I click on the Output drop-down, all it shows is "Not connected"--I don't even get the two channels.

 

confused.gif

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Well, something isn't working.  Here is my ASIO control panel:

700


I only have HD Audio Device and Realtek HD Audio Device.  All show Out: 2x (no 8-channel output).  Does this mean my laptop will not support the 8 channels?

In addition, when I click on the Output drop-down, all it shows is "Not connected"--I don't even get the two channels.

confused.gif

I'm going to try this later tonight on my Dell laptop, but do you have any other audio drivers enabled for two-channel audio (or an external monitor displaying HDMI video)? You may want to investigate if there's any HDMI-related conflicts than downmix/force the ASIO audio driver down to two-channel. If that makes any sense....

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post #48 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


I'm going to try this later tonight on my Dell laptop, but do you have any other audio drivers enabled for two-channel audio (or an external monitor displaying HDMI video)? You may want to investigate if there's any HDMI-related conflicts than downmix/force the ASIO audio driver down to two-channel. If that makes any sense....

 

I had hoped that this wouldn't digress into a PC trouble-shooting exercise.  I have audio drivers loaded in the system for the Sounblaster X-Fi external USB soundcard that I have been using for REW.  I guess I could uninstall those drivers if I have too, but they are quite time-consuming to uninstall and reinstall.

 

BTW, when I hook the HDMI cable into the 4520 and select AUX1 as the input, my PC's desktop is displayed on the TV monitor.  I wasn't expecting that, but I guess it doesn't make any difference, just a bit distracting.

 

Second note:  my laptop is an AMD-based laptop, not an Intel-based one.  So I suspect there may be some differences.

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post #49 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I'm going to try this later tonight on my Dell laptop, but do you have any other audio drivers enabled for two-channel audio (or an external monitor displaying HDMI video)? You may want to investigate if there's any HDMI-related conflicts than downmix/force the ASIO audio driver down to two-channel. If that makes any sense....

Yeah, ...well, ...I also wish I could help out our dear Jerry for configuring his laptop to output 8 channels. IMHO, once the laptop has HDMI the multichannel support should be there somewhere hidden deep and waiting to be activated. Usually the sound cards on the mobo are only 2 channel devices, but a closer look into Device Manager may reveal where the multichannel settings are hiding. On my laptop (Toshiba A660-1EU) it is the Intel Graphics card that has the sound chip supporting multichannel that simply pops-up in the ASIO4ALL Control Panel in REW Soundcard tab.
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post #50 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 02:50 PM
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@ Localhost127

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I appreciate your knowledge and feedback.  However, the several posts you made earlier have immediately jumped to what I would call an "advanced" level.  This thread was specifically started to help non-REW users test out whether the simplified kit consisting of a PNP USB mic and an HDMI connection would entice them to migrate from their existing measurement solutions (OmniMic in many cases), or simply start using REW as their first measurement solution.  We need to focus on walking before we start running, and for the time being "walking" is getting everyone set up with the right equipment, the software loaded and working properly, and the first set of measurements taken.  This may seem very basic to you, but we need to start somewhere.

 

When we are all to the point where we have familiarized ourselves with REW to the point that we can configure it to take meaningful measurements, we will welcome more advanced feedback, which I know you will be able to provide.

 

Anyway, that's just my thoughts, and others may have an entirely different opinion.  I hope I have not offended anyone.

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post #51 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I had hoped that this wouldn't digress into a PC trouble-shooting exercise.  I have audio drivers loaded in the system for the Sounblaster X-Fi external USB soundcard that I have been using for REW.  I guess I could uninstall those drivers if I have too, but they are quite time-consuming to uninstall and reinstall.

BTW, when I hook the HDMI cable into the 4520 and select AUX1 as the input, my PC's desktop is displayed on the TV monitor.  I wasn't expecting that, but I guess it doesn't make any difference, just a bit distracting.

Second note:  my laptop is an AMD-based laptop, not an Intel-based one.  So I suspect there may be some differences.

I think this is where we need jevansoh to chime in....or someone that has ASIO4ALL experience...before you go down that path. But I think we need to ID how this driver plays with other drivers on a PC.

Is there a simple way you can disable the Soundblaster (like check disable on your audio settings, short of the nuclear option of uninstall/reinstall?

Re AMD, beats me, but on my Dell with an Intel CPU, I can check/uncheck audio sources in the Control Panel (Windows 7, 64-bit).

I've got a similar issue to test at home - I've used my HDMI connection for an external monitor, and I need to see whether I can use a splitter for both the monitor and HDMI output to my 4311 to get 8-channel output, or I'll have to do a work-around, like a Display Port to HDMI connection (or have to choose between having a monitor and REW/ASIO4ALl active). Jason thought it might work in a PM, but we need to test it.

Edit: I see that Feri already did chime in...and given how HDMI works, the graphics card may be the source of (or solution to) your problem. Maybe the AMD/Intel thing is the issue, but I think we need some "tech support" to help you through this smile.gif.

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post #52 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 03:04 PM
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Porting this over from the Audyssey thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post



As an FYI, I will be installing on an 2-3 year old Netbook with a standard RCA mini jack output, so will be running mini-to-stereo RCA to my receiver's AUX IN front analog input. I'm fine with just measuring the front speakers + sub so it looks like all I need is the USB mic and I can be up and running?

Oops, forgot to answer this other question...

You will need an RCA cable and a 1/8" (3.5mm) male to 2 RCA female splitter or y-cable.

You can get these at Radio Shack for about $5.00 or Monoprice for about $1.00.

You will plug that into your line out connection on your Netbook then plug ONE RCA cable into the splitter/y-cable and the other end into the AUX connection on your AVR/Pre-Pro leaving the other RCA jack open/not used.

That's it! It's that simple. You'll be able to easily run measurements on your L/C/R speakers this way.

--J

Jason -- thanks so much for your incredible willingness to respond so thoroughly to all questions! smile.gif

A quick follow-up question... I already own a basic 3.5mm mini to RCA stereo cable, like this one: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2

Stereo mini-jack on one end, with two RCA connections on the other end. Male to male.

Do I still need a splitter? If so, why? Do you not want the connection to be stereo?

You're very welcome, BP. I only wish I could respond more quickly. I know what it's like getting excited about something and having to wait on an answer.

I'm going to try to do better and rearrange a few things where I can get on this thread earlier each day while others are still awake and more actively participating which will hopefully reduce the time between questions directed towards me and my answers.

That splitter would only work if you had a male to female RCA cable.

I recommend one that has the same 3.5mm plug but instead of 2 RCA Male plugs it's 2 RCA Female jacks so you can use a standard male-to-male RCA cable.

You only want to use ONE RCA cable from this jack to your AVR/Pre-Pro because the signal is mono.

I hate to complicate things this early on, but... "IF" you wish to run a test on both speakers and subs at the same time to measure how everything is playing together once you're all done configuring Audyssey, with room treatments, etc to see the final response, then at the Pre-Pro end, where you plug the one cable into your AUX input, you can get another Y-Adapter which will have One Female RCA jack to TWO RCA Male Plugs to plug into both the Left and Right on your Pre-Pro.

That's how I have mine set up, FYI.

Hope this helps, sorry for the delayed response, and hopefully I didn't confuse you any more. wink.gif

--J


Forgive my density, but I still don't understand why I would need a splitter AND a separate RCA male-to-male cable.

What I have right now is a 3.5mm > RCA stereo cable, male to male. One male 3.5mm "mini" jack on one end, and two male RCA cables on the other end.

You say that I should instead have a 3.5mm > RCA stereo cable, but male to FEMALE. And then connect ONE of the female RCA ends to a single male-to-male RCA cable.

How on earth is this different from just using my current cable and then only plugging ONE of the sides in?

I understand the signal is mono, and the cable is stereo, but if it's a mono signal wouldn't both channels get the same signal? Meaning L/R of the RCA stereo pair would have identical output, and I could just plug one or the other in (or both if I want to test the CC)?

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post #53 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

@ Localhost127

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I appreciate your knowledge and feedback.  However, the several posts you made earlier have immediately jumped to what I would call an "advanced" level.  This thread was specifically started to help non-REW users test out whether the simplified kit consisting of a PNP USB mic and an HDMI connection would entice them to migrate from their existing measurement solutions (OmniMic in many cases), or simply start using REW as their first measurement solution.  We need to focus on walking before we start running, and for the time being "walking" is getting everyone set up with the right equipment, the software loaded and working properly, and the first set of measurements taken.  This may seem very basic to you, but we need to start somewhere.

When we are all to the point where we have familiarized ourselves with REW to the point that we can configure it to take meaningful measurements, we will welcome more advanced feedback, which I know you will be able to provide.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts, and others may have an entirely different opinion.  I hope I have not offended anyone.

+1. Valuable in-depth guidance will be a bliss when time comes. wink.gif
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post #54 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 05:11 PM
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Hi SoM, I hope so.
But let's see. First, please download the latest versions of REW (5.01 Beta 12) and ASIO4ALL (2.11 Beta 1), if you haven't done so yet....Cross my fingers for Ya.

Thnx, VERY helpful and much appreciated! I will try that out this weekend.

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post #55 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 08:48 PM
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Ok got my UNIK-1 over the weekend and picked it up at work today.

Downloaded the lastest REW and ASIO files. Fired them up and the mic was recognized (Yeehaw) asked if I had a calibrated file and said no.

Then went in to the ASIO control panel and I see the mic and my 3 SmartAudio HD options of Conexant HD Audio Capture, HD Audio output and HS Stereo Mix. Then I have an Intel Display audio and this is the only one that shows 8 options. I have both that and the mic active in the control panel. I clicked Always resample on both.

In the drop down for Output I have 8 options for Display Audio Output 1.1, 1.2...
In the drop down for Input I have 2 Unik-1 to choose, but both look the same.

I click on Check Levels and I don't get any sound regardless of the 1.x I choose. I am not sure that the HDMI from my laptop to the AVR is really 'talking'. If I unplug the HDMI though then I only have 2 output options, so I think it 'see's' it, but something is off obviously.

I have a Marantz 7005 and I assigned the AUX1 to HDMI6, but not sure as to the other settings for Input Mode, there is Analog, HDMI, Auto and 7.1+SW. I picked 7.1 even though I only have 5.1 setup.

I am sure it is something simple, but my first rodeo with REW is causing me some grief.

If there is anything that jumps out at anyone (Jason biggrin.gif), please PM and let me know your thoughts or general forum support if welcome.

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post #56 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 09:42 PM
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Just reading the above strongly suggests that the enthusiastic poster who got us all excited about how REW was now plug-n-play was a bit over zealous. I played around for a couple of hours today and made zero progress. I bought the USB mic and will try (again) to get my system working but I am having trouble downloading and installing the latest beta version of the software that supports the auto recognition of the USB mic. Anyone working on a very detailed step by step set of instructions for morons like me?
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post #57 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:11 PM
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Reading cdnbum88's post makes me worry that not all HDMI outputs on laptops and PCs are going to offer 8 channel or ASIO support. Eventually jevansoh should make a list of supported audio chipsets and graphics cards with HDMI audio out that are compatible with REW. Maybe make a note in the first few posts of this thread for users having HDMI problems to state what audio chipset, soundcard, or graphics card they are using including make, model, version #? The driver version may also help.

I'm glad this thread exists because I'm going to ask alot of dummy questions. I'm probably going to order the USB mic, but I have some setup questions after looking through the REW documentation. My questions are primarily with calibrating for LFE material for the subwoofer channel, and larger bit depths.
I noticed in the 'Checking Levels' section of of REW Help, it mentions increasing the volume or signal level so SPL meter reads around 75 dB. I though the LFE channel was supposed to be played back 10 dB higher than the main channels? Does the bit depth of a file (ie 16 bit, 24 bit) determine how loud the pink
noise signal should be recorded and measured? In other words, would the process for calibrating a system for DVD (16 bit audio) be any different than that for bluray (24 bit in some cases)? Would a lower playback level for a higher bit depth file actually skew the calibration in a less-desired way? Would setting the output level to 85 dB or 95 dB on the sub channel be better if I'm primarily playing back 24 bit audio? Maybe I'm just getting confused between the theoretical dynamic range limited by the bit depth and suitable playback levels. Regardless, if anyone knows the answers to these questions, please let me know.
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post #58 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:20 PM
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Well, I have made some progress.  After doing some internet research, I went to the RealTek driver download site (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsCheck.aspx?langid=1&pfid=24&level=4&conn=3&downtypeid=3) and downloaded the ATI HDMI device driver (ver R2.70) and installed it.  The ASIO Control Panel now shows the ATI HDMI Audio in the device list.  To use it, click on the device in the list, and a "play" icon will appear to the left of the device.

 

700

 

Unfortunately, this device is still two-channel output. 

 

Next step is to make sure the HDMI connection on the AVR front panel is configured.  In AVR Input Assign menu, make sure the correct input source (V.AUX on the 4311, AUX1 on the 4520) is configured for the front panel HDMI connection (HDMI7 on the 4311, "Front" on the 4520).

 

After hooking up the HDMI cable (like Keith, mine is not quite long enough...) and opening the Output drop-down on the REW Preferences screen, I see and can select either output channel 1 or 2.

 

700

 

Now, to test the connection, I open the "Generator" icon on the REW home page and can choose from several types of test signals.

 

700

 

Unfortunately, the audio is output to only one channel, either left or right, depending on the output choice.  If I can't choose to output left+right, I don't know how this will be as useful as my old outboard soundcard configuration.  I remain open-minded, because I don't think I have fully solved all the issues yet.

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post #59 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Just reading the above strongly suggests that the enthusiastic poster who got us all excited about how REW was now plug-n-play was a bit over zealous. I played around for a couple of hours today and made zero progress. I bought the USB mic and will try (again) to get my system working but I am having trouble downloading and installing the latest beta version of the software that supports the auto recognition of the USB mic. Anyone working on a very detailed step by step set of instructions for morons like me?

 

First of all, I understand your frustration.  When I first started using REW, my frustration was through the roof.  Hopefully you will get some advice here that will help.

 

Regarding Jason's (Jevansoh's) enthusiasm, I think he is simply excited to share some useful REW knowledge with us.  I do not think he over-sold the ease of use.  It has always been difficult for experts to find the most effective way of communicating their expertise.  If the discussion is too high-level, there is a risk of frustrating the beginners.  If the discussion is too low-level, the knowledgeable people become bored.  Finding the middle ground is the challenge.

 

Let's not put the burden of the success of this thread on Jason--it's our thread, so let's collectively help each other out.

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post #60 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:48 PM
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Well, something isn't working.  Here is my ASIO control panel:

700


I only have HD Audio Device and Realtek HD Audio Device.  All show Out: 2x (no 8-channel output).  Does this mean my laptop will not support the 8 channels?

In addition, when I click on the Output drop-down, all it shows is "Not connected"--I don't even get the two channels.

confused.gif

Jerry,
I installed the latest beta (REW 5.01, beta 12) and ASIO4ALL (v2.11, beta 1) without any issues. I'm finding multiple channels (6, but not 8) when I do a drilldown on my Dell XPS 15 (Intel CPU, Windows 7, 64-bit). Here's my experience:

When I go to the REW -> Preferences -> Soundcard, I selected ASIO under Drivers, and ASIO4ALL v2 as the ASIO Device.

Then, if I go to ASIO Control Panel, I see two WDM Devices: NVIDIA High Definition Audio, and Realtek High Definition Audio.

If I click on NVIDIA, and hover over it, I only see 2 x 44.1-48 kHz, 24-bits, Idle. Not very interesting.
On the other hand, my Realtek High Definition Audio driver is active in my setup, which I confirmed in my Windows Control Panel settings that have Realtek HD Audio Speakers active under Sound . If I hover over the driver in the ASIO Control Panel, I see a "Location: Internal High Definition Audio Bus" and "Status: Active". Nothing about 8 channels, though.

However, if I click on the wrench sign that shows "Advanced Options" when I hover, and then click on the plus sign that shows up under Realtek, I see Realtek HD Audio Output listed as my first dropdown.

If I click on that option, I see:
6 x 44.1-192 kHz, 32-bits
Status: Active - Polling (push)

I then hooked my Dell's HDMI output to the front HDMI input (HDMI-7, corresponding to V-AUX) on my Denon 4311, and I see MULTI CH IN + Dolby PLII on that source.

I don't have the USB mike so I can't do any testing.

On the Preference->Sound Card page, once I"ve selected ASIO4ALL under ASIO, I see six Output and six Time Reference Output channels. I wonder if my Realtek driver only supports 5.1, though.

No way to tell yet, but I hope (assume?) that the six channels correspond to the first six that Jason indicated are the system channels, as shown in Post #10. I don't have surround backs, heights, or wides, so I'm not missing any speakers.

So at least on my system, this "works".

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