Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Amon View Post

Reading cdnbum88's post makes me worry that not all HDMI outputs on laptops and PCs are going to offer 8 channel or ASIO support. Eventually jevansoh should make a list of supported audio chipsets and graphics cards with HDMI audio out that are compatible with REW. Maybe make a note in the first few posts of this thread for users having HDMI problems to state what audio chipset, soundcard, or graphics card they are using including make, model, version #? The driver version may also help.
I'm glad this thread exists because I'm going to ask alot of dummy questions. I'm probably going to order the USB mic, but I have some setup questions after looking through the REW documentation. My questions are primarily with calibrating for LFE material for the subwoofer channel, and larger bit depths.
I noticed in the 'Checking Levels' section of of REW Help, it mentions increasing the volume or signal level so SPL meter reads around 75 dB. I though the LFE channel was supposed to be played back 10 dB higher than the main channels? Does the bit depth of a file (ie 16 bit, 24 bit) determine how loud the pink
noise signal should be recorded and measured? In other words, would the process for calibrating a system for DVD (16 bit audio) be any different than that for bluray (24 bit in some cases)? Would a lower playback level for a higher bit depth file actually skew the calibration in a less-desired way? Would setting the output level to 85 dB or 95 dB on the sub channel be better if I'm primarily playing back 24 bit audio? Maybe I'm just getting confused between the theoretical dynamic range limited by the bit depth and suitable playback levels. Regardless, if anyone knows the answers to these questions, please let me know.

 

Couple of comments:

 

First, I don't know that publishing a list of supported hardware will be that easy.

 

Second, I don't understand any of your questions regarding signal levels.  REW outputs test tones to your AVR.  You control the AVR's output level through the master volume control.  Part of the initial setup of REW is the calibration of the output signal.  The process is described in detail in the Help file, and it is very important that you learn how to do it.  Essentially, it works like this:  Open the SPL icon in REW and click the "Calibrate" button, which causes a calibration tone to be sent to the AVR.  Using an SPL positioned at the MLP at ear-level, adjust the AVR master volume until the SPL reads 75dB.  In the REW calibration screen, adjust the level to also read 75dB, and then click Done.  Now REW knows that the reference tone from the AVR is 75dB, and can accurately measure the AVR's output as other measurements are taken.

 

Now, what are all those other questions you had, and what do they have to do with REW calibration and measurements?  I'm confused.

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post #62 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:55 PM
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@ Stuart,

 

I followed the same steps as you did, but only get two channels.  It may be a hardware limitation, or it may be a driver issue.  I'm still researching.

 

In the drop-down for output channels, can you select more than one channel at a time?  I.e. output to left+right?

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post #63 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnbum88 View Post

Ok got my UNIK-1 over the weekend and picked it up at work today.
Downloaded the lastest REW and ASIO files. Fired them up and the mic was recognized (Yeehaw) asked if I had a calibrated file and said no.
Then went in to the ASIO control panel and I see the mic and my 3 SmartAudio HD options of Conexant HD Audio Capture, HD Audio output and HS Stereo Mix. Then I have an Intel Display audio and this is the only one that shows 8 options. I have both that and the mic active in the control panel. I clicked Always resample on both.
In the drop down for Output I have 8 options for Display Audio Output 1.1, 1.2...
In the drop down for Input I have 2 Unik-1 to choose, but both look the same.
I click on Check Levels and I don't get any sound regardless of the 1.x I choose. I am not sure that the HDMI from my laptop to the AVR is really 'talking'. If I unplug the HDMI though then I only have 2 output options, so I think it 'see's' it, but something is off obviously.
I have a Marantz 7005 and I assigned the AUX1 to HDMI6, but not sure as to the other settings for Input Mode, there is Analog, HDMI, Auto and 7.1+SW. I picked 7.1 even though I only have 5.1 setup.
I am sure it is something simple, but my first rodeo with REW is causing me some grief.
If there is anything that jumps out at anyone (Jason biggrin.gif), please PM and let me know your thoughts or general forum support if welcome.

 

Did you configure the AVR input (e.g. AUX1) to use the front panel HDMI connection in the Input Assign menu on the AVR?

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post #64 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

@ Stuart,

I followed the same steps as you did, but only get two channels.  It may be a hardware limitation, or it may be a driver issue.  I'm still researching.

In the drop-down for output channels, can you select more than one channel at a time?  I.e. output to left+right?

It doesn't look like it's possible.

I can select one of six Output channels (marked as HD Audio output 1 to 6), and one of six Timing Reference Output channels (ditto). You can indeed pick any pairwise combination of the Output and Timing Reference Output channel (i.e. Output 1 vs. Timing Reference Output 4, which assumedly corresponds to L+Sub), but that's it. There's no drop-down where you can pick, say, Output 1 & 2 vs. Timing Reference Output 4 (which I would guess would correspond to L+R+Sub). So at least from what I see, it confirms what Feri (and Jason, for that matter) have found with the HDMI approach.

Off to sleep shortly - but I hope that helps. I probably won't get back to this until tomorrow night, and without a mic that will work with REW, I'm on hold for a few weeks.

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post #65 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post


After hooking up the HDMI cable (like Keith, mine is not quite long enough...) and opening the Output drop-down on the REW Preferences screen, I see and can select either output channel 1 or 2.

700

Jerry, in Output select 1, then go to Timing Reference Output, here in the drop down menu you should see Output 1 highlighted. Click on Output 2, this should make the test signal to be output to both channels.
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post #66 of 27461 Old 01-07-2013, 11:27 PM
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That works, Feri.  It certainly was not obvious!

 

Off to sleep now.....

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post #67 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

First of all I want to thank all of you for your participation. The more folks that participate in this thread and the more active it stays, as long as we keep it on topic, the more folks can learn and ultimately improve their listening experience and enjoyment which is the true goal of this thread; listening nirvana through further education.

I've read and re-read every post in this thread so far and quite frankly have been inundated with PM's asking for technical support.

I have to admit I'm a bit overwhelmed as I want to keep everyone excited, realize there is a lot more information to add, don't want to let anyone down, and also need to help steer the thread to keep it on topic, all with the limited amount of time I have available to participate each day.

So for now, since I cannot magically fix everyone's issues with just a few keystrokes I do want to reiterate that overall this really is pretty easy albeit possibly frustrating in the beginning until all 'possible' early issues/learning curves are fully documented and explained and you can always fall back on hooking up via analog instead of HDMI if you want to get started right away and can't seem to get the HDMI working for whatever reason.

One thing I'm looking into right now is why some folks only have access to 2 channels (via HDMI) while others have 6 and still others have all 8 channels available. I have to admit this is very surprising to me and as of the time of this post I don't 'yet' have the answers.

I also want to take this opportunity to explain a bit further the direction in which I'd like this thread to evolve, if at all possible.

The reason for the thread is to motivate people to start measuring their true in room response via REW instead of simply running an "automatic" room EQ program and being done with it. I've had great success with Audyssey and even parametric EQ for subwoofers, but by no means is it automatic and by no means is it perfect. You can always do better.

It starts with trust but verify and will hopefully progress to setting goals for an acoustic model and working towards achieving them. That's what this thread is all about.

So we'll begin by getting everybody going with REW, showing you how to use it to take simple measurements, how those measurements will be set up, what they should look like, some do's and don'ts, etc and progress throughout this journey (hopefully sharing our measurements and progress along the way) talking about, explaining, and working on more advanced issues, until hopefully for all the folks that stick with it, in the end you'll have a true understanding of how things work (acoustically) and what is truly going on, what really matters, and ultimately attaining the goals you started out with which you should be researching and starting to set now.

I do understand your frustration if you're having difficulty with the first step which is getting the hardware to work with the software.

If you have the Mini-DSP Mic and for some reason cannot get the HDMI hookup to work properly, just to get started and be able to delve into taking measurements and see what is going on so you are able to follow along, you may, just for now, wish to hook your computer up via an analog RCA cable. You'll still be able to measure L/R and/or L+R along with your subwoofers and center channel and that's what most of the measurements and most of the topics will focus on with respect to correcting anomalies in measurements of those channels.

We WILL get all the bugs worked out and I'm 100% positive those of you who wish to use HDMI will be able to do so effortlessly and shortly but please bare with me. wink.gif

In the mean time, I'm going to update the first several posts of this thread (and this will be an ongoing process with regards to the FAQ and a few other documents, so please check the first page of the thread often) with some FAQ's, do's, don'ts, how's, and why's and encourage you to keep asking questions along the way.

If anyone has any ideas for FAQ's or general info they would like to have explained or share on any of the topics of this thread, by all means share your knowledge with us, but please remember there are other threads for advanced audio theory topics and while I hope we eventually get there, so far most of the posters on this thread are here for more basic knowledge, setup advice, and need to be taught the right way of doing things so they don't have to un-learn so many things like a lot of the more advanced posters have had to, including myself.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and to participate here, and again, please check the first page of this thread often for updates.

Also, MTBDudex linked to a WONDERFUL article several posts back that better describes the different acoustical concepts and I strongly encourage each of you to read it and pick one as your goal. If that topic totally confuses you, I will share that the most common design goal for critical listening rooms is LEDE/RFZ (RFZ is actually LEDE but a different way of getting there) and most of the more advanced topics we'll touch on in this thread will most likely revolve around LEDE, so it'd be a good idea to read up a bit on it, at least. wink.gif

Thanks again,

--Jason
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post #68 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


I'm going to try this later tonight on my Dell laptop, but do you have any other audio drivers enabled for two-channel audio (or an external monitor displaying HDMI video)? You may want to investigate if there's any HDMI-related conflicts than downmix/force the ASIO audio driver down to two-channel. If that makes any sense....

 

I had hoped that this wouldn't digress into a PC trouble-shooting exercise.  I have audio drivers loaded in the system for the Sounblaster X-Fi external USB soundcard that I have been using for REW.  I guess I could uninstall those drivers if I have too, but they are quite time-consuming to uninstall and reinstall.

 

BTW, when I hook the HDMI cable into the 4520 and select AUX1 as the input, my PC's desktop is displayed on the TV monitor.  I wasn't expecting that, but I guess it doesn't make any difference, just a bit distracting.

 

Second note:  my laptop is an AMD-based laptop, not an Intel-based one.  So I suspect there may be some differences.

 

Jerry - when I read your post it worried me that I might have the same problem. I first connected my laptop to my 5509 with HDMI.  I then ran REW and was dismayed to see that I only had the two options in the dropdown box. My 5509 was recognised because the lappy put up a warning about the resolution difference between it and the display. I then went to Windows control panel ad selected SOUND. In there was the internal gubbins but also the 5509 was showing as an audio source. I set this to 'use as default'. I then went to the ASIO control panel and disabled the internal thins and selected the IntelR HD Audio option that had now appeared. I then went back to REW preferences and hit the dropdown box and all 8 channels are showing. HTH.

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post #69 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

 


Unfortunately, the audio is output to only one channel, either left or right, depending on the output choice.  If I can't choose to output left+right, I don't know how this will be as useful as my old outboard soundcard configuration.  I remain open-minded, because I don't think I have fully solved all the issues yet.

 

I worried about this too - but subsequent research and some helpful posts in this thread have now convinced me that it is important to test each speaker individually (see Sanjay's posts) - like Audyssey does - and then LCR + sub, which I have just done. You can check the L+R together though - you have to select them in REW preferences - one on the Output and one on the Timing Reference Output.

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post #70 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Just reading the above strongly suggests that the enthusiastic poster who got us all excited about how REW was now plug-n-play was a bit over zealous. I played around for a couple of hours today and made zero progress. I bought the USB mic and will try (again) to get my system working but I am having trouble downloading and installing the latest beta version of the software that supports the auto recognition of the USB mic. Anyone working on a very detailed step by step set of instructions for morons like me?

 

First of all, I understand your frustration.  When I first started using REW, my frustration was through the roof.  Hopefully you will get some advice here that will help.

 

Regarding Jason's (Jevansoh's) enthusiasm, I think he is simply excited to share some useful REW knowledge with us.  I do not think he over-sold the ease of use.  It has always been difficult for experts to find the most effective way of communicating their expertise.  If the discussion is too high-level, there is a risk of frustrating the beginners.  If the discussion is too low-level, the knowledgeable people become bored.  Finding the middle ground is the challenge.

 

Let's not put the burden of the success of this thread on Jason--it's our thread, so let's collectively help each other out.

 

Following Feri's suggestions, I have got mine basically working. I don't have a mic yet and the HDMI cable I am using means I can't be in the HT and at the laptop at the same time yet, but I am up and running. Using the steps described in my other post (to AJ) I am now able to use REW generator to send a test tone to any speaker and have also tried and succeeded in sending tones to my L + Sub, R + Sub and C + Sub.

 

All I need now is my mic and I can be measuring!  I have to say I have amazed myself in getting this far (thanks Feri!) but the point is that if someone as useless as I am with Windows can get this far then there is hope for everyone ;)

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post #71 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

 

Let's not put the burden of the success of this thread on Jason--it's our thread, so let's collectively help each other out.

 

 

+1 to that BTW.

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post #72 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
.

On the Preference->Sound Card page, once I"ve selected ASIO4ALL under ASIO, I see six Output and six Time Reference Output channels. I wonder if my Realtek driver only supports 5.1, though.

No way to tell yet, but I hope (assume?) that the six channels correspond to the first six that Jason indicated are the system channels, as shown in Post #10. I don't have surround backs, heights, or wides, so I'm not missing any speakers.

So at least on my system, this "works".

 

I had to go into Windows Control Panel <shudder> and select Sounds and then select the 5509 Display Audio Sound option and then select Configure. In there it gave me some check boxes one of which was for 7.1. I ticked that box and all 8 channels appear in REW. I don't have surround backs either (I dio have Heights but they are not relevant here) so it's a bit academic, but at least all 8 are showing. 

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post #73 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

@ Stuart,

 

I followed the same steps as you did, but only get two channels.  It may be a hardware limitation, or it may be a driver issue.  I'm still researching.

 

In the drop-down for output channels, can you select more than one channel at a time?  I.e. output to left+right?

 

WRT to the possibility of hardware limitations - my lappy is an Asus and was the cheapest I could find. I don't know what the spec is but it is sure to be a low spec for what I paid for it! (I initially bought it to use with Audyssey Pro which isn't all that fussy). HST, it is less than a year old and came with a version of Windows 7. I only mention this FWIW and to suggest that one definitely doesn't need anything special for REW but maybe the fact mine is fairly new is important. HST, any lappy that has HDMI is going to be fairly new anyway I guess.

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post #74 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:51 AM
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I've read and re-read every post in this thread so far and quite frankly have been inundated with PM's asking for technical support.

 

 

Jason, can I suggest that you do not reply to PMs privately but in this thread?  It will save you hours of retyping the same info. I had similar experiences around the time I started the Audyssey FAQ and soon learned that PM was not the best way to do it.  I have already started a scratch list of potential FAQ questions and am having some idea of the FAQ structure and what sections it will need. It is important to get the structure right from the get-go because it is a huge task to change it later because all the links become invalid.

 

Quote:
One thing I'm looking into right now is why some folks only have access to 2 channels (via HDMI) while others have 6 and still others have all 8 channels available. I have to admit this is very surprising to me and as of the time of this post I don't 'yet' have the answers.

 

I certainly don't have all the answers!  But see my post to Jerry for the steps I had to go through to get my HDMI working (which it now is - if I had a mic I could be measuring now). Also see my supplemental reply about configuring the 5509 Display Audio options in Windows control panel. This will be an important Q for the FAQ I think!

 

 

 

Quote:
most of the posters on this thread are here for more basic knowledge, setup advice, and need to be taught the right way of doing things

 

I think it is important to remember that! Walking before running as someone (AJ?) said. 

 

I suspect that once the teething issues with HDMI connection are solved (and they will be) then the main focus will move to 'what to measure' and 'how to interpret the graphs' and 'what to do once you have this knowledge'. That is part of the FAQ structure I have sketched out so far.

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post #75 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

The purpose of this thread is to explain how to both physically hook up the connections between your computer and AVR/Pre-Pro to get started with REW (Room EQ Wizard) and to share 

 

Jason, can I suggest that when you update the first few posts, as you said you will, that you make it clear where the updated info is - something like:

 

Updated - 8 Jan 2012

 

This way it will be easier to find the new info and harder to miss it. Just a thought. 

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post #76 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 04:57 AM
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I am amazed that I am so excited at the prospect of this smile.gif  

I am hoping Jason (or anyone) might create a step by step guide as to what we need to do, once REW is set up and working, so that we can get started right away on the most important measurements, how to interpret them and what changes we might make as result of seeing them. 

Keith, have you downloaded REW and ASIO4ALL, yet? I suppose so. Then, while waiting for the deep dive into important measurements why not try your wings by clicking on Generator and see how you can steer around in your speaker system, one by one with some test tones or log sweeps via a simple listening test. It's fun to get acquainted with the bells and whistles of REW. smile.gif

 

 

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Now, if you engage channel #4 the test signal will be routed to your subwoofer channel in the AVP. If you set the Generator to Log Sweep and start from 10 Hz say up to 200 Hz and set a duration of 60 seconds, you will be able to carefully hear by ear how your subs perform and at what frequency they start to kick-in.. But most interesting will be to hear the rattling of "stuff" in your room. You can determine the resonance frequency of your "stuff", and take measures to get rid of them. How to get rid of them is another story, maybe a "rattling stuff" forum can help. cool.gif tongue.gif wink.gif

 

 

Feri - thank you!!  I have done this (briefly) now and it works as you describe. It is interesting to 'feel' the subs quite some time before I 'hear' them.... Thanks for your help - I woudn't have got this far without your helpful setup posts.

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post #77 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 05:05 AM
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Reposted from Audyssey thread.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Audioguy - if I can do this, anyone can, trust me wink.gif

It is not that I can't. Since REW was the only thing that existed for a long time, I used to use it. For several years. However, each time I had to screw around with the sound card, run loop thoroughs, set volume levels, blah, blah blah. And it was more often than not that I could not get it to work correctly. I then purchased OmniMIc and was a very happy camper.

 

 

It was all that screwing around that put me off REW in the first place. But I have spent only a little time so far with REW + HDMI and have got it basically working. Now all I will have to do is plug the mic into the USB and the HDMI cable into my 5509 and I am measuring - that is actually easier than OmniMic where the use of the CD has always been a PITA for me.

 

 

Quote:
Then someone recently posted that with the new USB Mic and an HDMI cable, REW was ALSO plug-n-play and that is simply not true. Not even close to true. It is far from it. That said, I will wait for a very clear step by step guide (not lots of posts or FAQ's) on first do this; then do this; then do the next thing with clear visual examples of the various options, what tab to push, what button to select, etc. When that is available, I will give it a go.

 

 

It is 'almost' PnP I think. I did have to make some settings in Windows control panel I admit. And it was trial and error - but it worked and only took a few minutes. Agreed on the step-by-step though.

 

Quote:
I have very low tolerance (one of the many things that has changed as I have aged) for trial and error processes. I was a computer programmer when I got out of college and loved it but eventually my patience ran thin and moved on.

 

We are alike! I am well-known among my family and friends for my almost zero tolerance of things that don't work properly or intuitively. :) My daughters say my threshold of tolerance is 5 minutes and they are probably right. If it fails the 5 minute test, it's usually in the trash. Not always. Usually. Or at least I have to see progress in the first 5 minutes.

 

 

 

Quote:
All that to say that while the current REW M A Y be easier to use than the original one, it is not easy enough for me yet. I will keep the mic, wait for my "REW for dummies" tutorial with screen prints to show what to touch, pull down, check, etc, and try it then.

 

I am sure this thread will be very helpful and that you will soon be up and running. Stay tuned!

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post #78 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 05:07 AM
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I am amazed that I am so excited at the prospect of this smile.gif  


I am hoping Jason (or anyone) might create a step by step guide as to what we need to do, once REW is set up and working, so that we can get started right away on the most important measurements, how to interpret them and what changes we might make as result of seeing them. 


Keith, have you downloaded REW and ASIO4ALL, yet? I suppose so. Then, while waiting for the deep dive into important measurements why not try your wings by clicking on Generator and see how you can steer around in your speaker system, one by one with some test tones or log sweeps via a simple listening test. It's fun to get acquainted with the bells and whistles of REW. smile.gif

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Now, if you engage channel #4 the test signal will be routed to your subwoofer channel in the AVP. If you set the Generator to Log Sweep and start from 10 Hz say up to 200 Hz and set a duration of 60 seconds, you will be able to carefully hear by ear how your subs perform and at what frequency they start to kick-in.. But most interesting will be to hear the rattling of "stuff" in your room. You can determine the resonance frequency of your "stuff", and take measures to get rid of them. How to get rid of them is another story, maybe a "rattling stuff" forum can help. cool.gif  tongue.gif  wink.gif


Feri - thank you!!  I have done this (briefly) now and it works as you describe. It is interesting to 'feel' the subs quite some time before I 'hear' them.... Thanks for your help - I woudn't have got this far without your helpful setup posts.

Not at all Keith, glad to help. Now, how about the rattlings. If you didn't experience them in your room you are either a lucky devil, or you were listening too soft. Pump up the Master Volume to see how your room performs in the rattling department. This can easily be an issue really worth to be fixed prior to REW'ing, thus avoiding it's influence on measurement results. And, of course, who likes to listen to deep, smooth and even bass in a room where stuffs rattle. Just a thought. wink.gif
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post #79 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 05:39 AM
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Not at all Keith, glad to help. Now, how about the rattlings. If you didn't experience them in your room you are either a lucky devil, or you were listening too soft. Pump up the Master Volume to see how your room performs in the rattling department. This can easily be an issue really worth to be fixed prior to REW'ing, thus avoiding it's influence on measurement results. And, of course, who likes to listen to deep, smooth and even bass in a room where stuffs rattle. Just a thought. wink.gif

 

:) No rattling here Feri - but remember this is a) a dedicated room so it doesn't have any 'living room' items in it such as picture frames, ornaments etc etc and b) I sorted out the one or two rattles (from the doors) some time ago using a test disc as the source. When the subs play at Reference -5dB at 10Hz, it is important to do this :)

 

One more question - you said somewhere to set the REW prefs to 48kHz sampling rate (which I have done) - but why?

 

Back later - I have to go to the stable now to meet the farrier (aka 'pay him') and while I am out will also take my dog for his walk.

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One more question - you said somewhere to set the REW prefs to 48kHz sampling rate (which I have done) - but why?

In case the sound card was set to 44.1kHz and REW to 48 kHz it could lead to false measurements. But now with ASIO4ALL this may have become obsolete, coz in the Asio Control Panel putting the check mark to "Always resample 44.1 kHz <-> 48 kHz" takes this load off our shoulders. smile.gif
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post #81 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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First of all, thanks to Jason for being the thread-starter, and for providing a nice introduction to what I hope will be interesting and productive discussions.  And second, thanks to Keith for transferring the useful posts from the Audyssey thread, and for volunteering to help assemble and maintain a FAQ.  Guys, I want to help as well--please let me know how I can contribute.

In addition to learning how to simplify my REW kit with the USB mic and HDMI connection (which will need to wait until the UMM-6 is shipping), here are examples of what I hope to get out of this thread.  Here are two recent measurements of my system, a waterfall and an ETC:

700


700


I can generate these graphs, but here are the uncertainties:

- Did I configure the graphs properly?  Are the horizontal and vertical scales set properly?  What are the various settings in the "Controls" panel for each type of graph?  (Amir, who I see has already provided a link to his thread over on the WhatsBetterForum.com, provides some good examples of how to configure Waterfalls, but I'm not sure I understand it all.  BTW, welcome, Amir!)

- How should the speakers be configured before taking these measurements?  Do I measure one speaker at a time for ETC?  Does the waterfall need all subs as well as the main speakers in the measurement?  Is Audyssey on or off?  Do I take measurements only at the MLP, or at several spots in the room?

- What do the graphs show?  Does the Waterfall show any resonances that need to be looked at, or does the graph show something that is "good enough"? 

- It's easy to see the reflections in the ETC graph.  Are the reflections significant enough to warrant treatments?  Should all the peaks be below -20dB?  There are two early reflections at 7m and 11.3m.  How can I tell which surfaces in my room are causing these reflections?

- Once I know what I am looking at, what are the various methods to address the problems?  Should I go out and buy a roll of pink fluffy?  wink.gif

I figure that once I master these topics, I could start advertising my services as an audio consultant here in Austin!

Jerry,

I actually used your questions to get a start on the FAQ and some tips, do's and don'ts so if you'll review post #2 you should see all of your questions answered and a bunch more.

Hopefully the formatting is good for now...Been working on it all night and I'm tired plus have to go to work now, so...Will update later tonight. Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

Hope it helps,

--J
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ATTENTION:

NEW REW BETA 11 RELEASED!!

This "Should" fix a lot of the problems folks have been having, technically.

Start REW and click Help, and select, "Check for updates on startup."

Then restart REW and follow the prompts. You do NOT have to uninstall the old version. Simply download and install the new overtop and everything will be updated.

When the prompt comes up to ask you to update, there is a bug list that shows all of the fixes and thankfully, most of them pertain to the problems, issues, and questions that have been asked here in the thread over the last few days.

So JohnM IS LISTENING. I can't say for sure that this thread made any difference, but I can say with a lot of confidence that this should fix a lot of the errors folks have been seeing and should make it a lot easier to get started.

Hope this helps,

--J

PS PLEASE VISIT THE FIRST PAGE AND FIRST SEVERAL POSTS OF THIS THREAD OFTEN OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS AS THERE ARE MANY UPDATES ALONG WITH THE BEGINNING OF A FAQ AND SOME TIPS ON GETTING STARTED, WHAT TO LOOK FOR, ETC. Okay, I'm done yelling now... wink.gif
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The purpose of this thread is to explain how to both physically hook up the connections between your computer and AVR/Pre-Pro to get started with REW (Room EQ Wizard) and to share 

Jason, can I suggest that when you update the first few posts, as you said you will, that you make it clear where the updated info is - something like:

Updated - 8 Jan 2012

This way it will be easier to find the new info and harder to miss it. Just a thought. 

Good idea. I've never done this before, so I appreciate all the help I can get.

I'm actually really NOT liking the AVS editor, as I had a beautiful draft of what I just posted in post #2 which took literally hours/all night to create in MS Word and when I pasted it in, none of the formatting took and it was all garbled, so I just spent the last 30 minutes or so getting it "good enough" because I'm so tired and have to go to work now, too... I hate to ask, but you did (and are doing) such a great job with all the Audyssey docs, could you possibly copy all the text and try to fix it up a bit? I also basically just typed everything from memory and as I had each thought while answering Jerry's questions, which is what I used as the template to get started, and don't have the time or energy to go back and edit, proof read, cut down for size/redundancy, etc. You (especially with your background) are obviously a pro at that, and I sure would appreciate any help you can offer... Maybe PM it to me if/when you can fix 'er up, and I'll repost to make it more clear.

Thanks SO MUCH and if you aren't interested or don't have time I understand, but it never hurts to ask, right? wink.gif

--J
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post #84 of 27461 Old 01-08-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, the audio is output to only one channel, either left or right, depending on the output choice.  If I can't choose to output left+right, I don't know how this will be as useful as my old outboard soundcard configuration.  I remain open-minded, because I don't think I have fully solved all the issues yet.

I worried about this too - but subsequent research and some helpful posts in this thread have now convinced me that it is important to test each speaker individually (see Sanjay's posts) - like Audyssey does - and then LCR + sub, which I have just done. You can check the L+R together though - you have to select them in REW preferences - one on the Output and one on the Timing Reference Output.

"IF" this ends up being a limitation on your particular machine, after installing the latest beta release of REW, don't fret... Please refer to post #2 and see why. smile.gif

--J
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Let's not put the burden of the success of this thread on Jason--it's our thread, so let's collectively help each other out.


+1 to that BTW.

Thanks guys, I have to admit that when I read all the posts over the last 3 pages today for the first time, I got a bit (ok, a LOT) overwhelmed, but I promise that I will try to get everyone's issues sorted out the best I can.

But... I couldn't possibly do it alone and I want to acknowledge Feri and thank him personally for his support as quite frankly, it was either answer those questions that he did or write post #2 and all the other things I'm already working on for the first several introductory posts and I really wanted to work on the latter, lol.. So.. Thank you, Feri and PLEASE Stick around!

--J
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Now, if you engage channel #4 the test signal will be routed to your subwoofer channel in the AVP. If you set the Generator to Log Sweep and start from 10 Hz say up to 200 Hz and set a duration of 60 seconds, you will be able to carefully hear by ear how your subs perform and at what frequency they start to kick-in.. But most interesting will be to hear the rattling of "stuff" in your room. You can determine the resonance frequency of your "stuff", and take measures to get rid of them. How to get rid of them is another story, maybe a "rattling stuff" forum can help. cool.gif  tongue.gif  wink.gif

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Feri - thank you!!  I have done this (briefly) now and it works as you describe. It is interesting to 'feel' the subs quite some time before I 'hear' them.... Thanks for your help - I woudn't have got this far without your helpful setup posts.


Not at all Keith, glad to help. Now, how about the rattlings. If you didn't experience them in your room you are either a lucky devil, or you were listening too soft. Pump up the Master Volume to see how your room performs in the rattling department. This can easily be an issue really worth to be fixed prior to REW'ing, thus avoiding it's influence on measurement results. And, of course, who likes to listen to deep, smooth and even bass in a room where stuffs rattle. Just a thought. wink.gif

This is actually a VERY Important first step that I forgot to put in post #2, needs to be in the FAQ, and needs to be done and taken care of BEFORE measuring because it both can and will skew all the measurements and you don't want to be treating for modal problems that don't exist as you'll create more problems than you solve.

When I get back tonight I'll try to formulate this as a Q & A unless one of you want to work on it and maybe Keith can add it to the other task I've asked of him?? Does that even make sense? I'm getting slap happy...

See ya all this evening,

--J
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I had to go into Windows Control Panel and select Sounds and then select the 5509 Display Audio Sound option and then select Configure. In there it gave me some check boxes one of which was for 7.1. I ticked that box and all 8 channels appear in REW. I don't have surround backs either (I dio have Heights but they are not relevant here) so it's a bit academic, but at least all 8 are showing. 

Keith, until now, I had considered myself reasonably knowledgeable WRT Windows and PC configurations. However, I cannot find anywhere in my Control Panel where it references my AVR as a configurable audio device. Would it be possible for you to post several screen shots of where in the Control Panel you found these settings?

Thanks!

Edit: This is what I see

 

700

 

700

 

:

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This is actually a VERY Important first step that I forgot to put in post #2, needs to be in the FAQ, and needs to be done and taken care of BEFORE measuring because it both can and will skew all the measurements and you don't want to be treating for modal problems that don't exist as you'll create more problems than you solve.
When I get back tonight I'll try to formulate this as a Q & A unless one of you want to work on it and maybe Keith can add it to the other task I've asked of him?? Does that even make sense? I'm getting slap happy...
See ya all this evening,
--J

One more thing I'd like to add here is the case when only the subwoofer channel is measured by pinging it via channel #4 (LFE). As we already know the Bass Management module (as per the LFE standard) in the AVR/AVP adds a +10 dB boost to the LFE signal (to make it clear, only to the LFE and not to the redirected bass from satellites). So, be careful with setting the test signal volume, coz in this case the test signal will be much louder that when sending it at the same input level to the satellites. Exactly +10 dB louder!!

See a typical Bass Management module here:

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Yes I figured that out a few minutes into the process. Still was not sure on the Input Mode options of 7.1, analog, auto and HDMI. Tried all 4 and still no sound. Will give it a go again tonight and see what I can figure out. Fun fun fun tongue.gif

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ATTENTION:
NEW REW BETA 11 RELEASED!!
This "Should" fix a lot of the problems folks have been having, technically.
Start REW and click Help, and select, "Check for updates on startup."
Then restart REW and follow the prompts. You do NOT have to uninstall the old version. Simply download and install the new overtop and everything will be updated.
When the prompt comes up to ask you to update, there is a bug list that shows all of the fixes and thankfully, most of them pertain to the problems, issues, and questions that have been asked here in the thread over the last few days.
So JohnM IS LISTENING. I can't say for sure that this thread made any difference, but I can say with a lot of confidence that this should fix a lot of the errors folks have been seeing and should make it a lot easier to get started.
Hope this helps,
--J
PS PLEASE VISIT THE FIRST PAGE AND FIRST SEVERAL POSTS OF THIS THREAD OFTEN OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS AS THERE ARE MANY UPDATES ALONG WITH THE BEGINNING OF A FAQ AND SOME TIPS ON GETTING STARTED, WHAT TO LOOK FOR, ETC. Okay, I'm done yelling now... wink.gif

 

Actually, we are up to beta 12 now.  Thankfully, the new beta releases are quick to download and install.

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