Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 648 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19411 of 27599 Old 08-01-2016, 04:50 PM
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@indus1 :

Please refresh my memory. What make/model are your front speakers? Are they ported? If yes, is the port front-facing or rear-facing? And do you have an AVR with room correction, if yes, what make/model?
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post #19412 of 27599 Old 08-01-2016, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
@indus1 :

Please refresh my memory. What make/model are your front speakers? Are they ported? If yes, is the port front-facing or rear-facing? And do you have an AVR with room correction, if yes, what make/model?
He has xtz cinema series which are sealed speakers.
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post #19413 of 27599 Old 08-01-2016, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
He has xtz cinema series which are sealed speakers.
OK, that would rule out port issues. I still don't think the holes in the front wall are ideal ways to mount speakers.
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post #19414 of 27599 Old 08-01-2016, 06:05 PM
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Just listened to some LFE scenes from scuba Steves vol2 demo disc and from @Quickett 2015 bass demo in my MLP and SLP and honestly couldn't tell a difference despite the minimal differences I see on the frequency response. So I'll keep my MLP as is
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post #19415 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 01:29 AM
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While I appreciate why this has been done XTZ Cinema speakers aren't designed for in wall use.

A lot of thought goes into speaker cabinet design but now you have a cabinet within a cabinet and you can cause resonances with the building structure.

Only properly designed in wall speakers should be built in wall.

Might have been better with them wall or stand mounted as per design, with the screen in front but of course space limitations might apply.
Just an observation.
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post #19416 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 02:03 AM
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I don't see why they can't go in wall and perform well. The point of baffle mounting is to get rid of the baffle as a contributor to the sound after all.

The gaps around the speaker will lead to notches in the mid range so it is best to get a flush fit. I would be inclined to get rid of the grills too given they already have a screen in front of them.

If the speaker has baffle step compensation built into the crossover then eq is likely required to pull this back down but he uses eq so no big deal there.

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post #19417 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am only trying to gain a foothold. When I observe a significant dip like what you are seeing, I ask myself is it the position of the speaker in the room, or is it a reflection from a boundary (i.e. SBIR), or is it the position of the MLP, or is it a defective driver in the speaker? For each one of these potential root causes, one must devise a simple test to narrow it down. Moving the speaker forward (temporarily) would provide new information. Moving the MLP forward or backward would provide new information. Doing a near-field measurement of the center speaker (or swapping it with one of the other speakers) may rule out a defective driver. Ultimately, we want to know what is causing the dip. Once we know the cause, whether we can do anything about it is a different story. Otherwise, as I said before, we may as well stop now, and live with things as they are.

Understood.
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post #19418 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
firstly, is this "sub" the LFE channel as opposed to the SW side of your C channel? if so, this data is useless I'm afraid for the purpose of aligning channels.

secondly, that 80Hz dip in the C channel is not an insurmountable problem for getting the sub to fill in, you just need to get the right data to be able to calculate it. I would measure L+SW and R+SW (combined + separate) as well though to see if the same problem is present on all channels. You may have to compromise after all.

thirdly, your sub IR looks funky. Use of E-APO or similar to get usable timing data might be required (or revert to trial and error using an RTA).

Hi
Yes, the sub is measured through the dedicated sub channel ie hdmi 4.
I note your comments and will retake through ch3 with centre unpowered.
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post #19419 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
It looks from the pic that your FL/FR are sticking out of the wall further than the CC...is that correct?

Anyways, if you are going to mount your speakers "in-wall" like that, you really should have the speaker baffle even with the wall surrounding it. The wall should also be extended so that it meets the speaker baffle. The wall then essentially becomes an extension of the speaker baffle, and should improve your response.

If you are unwilling or unable to do that, I would suggest moving the CC forward and backward as much as possible and re-measuring. Even a couple inches can sometimes make a big difference.

P.S. I would have maybe left the FL/FR where you had them before (patched holes). Then you wouldn't have to worry as much about reflections.


EDIT: Ooops, didn't see that corradizo beat me on the baffle thing.

EDIT AGAIN: Oh yeah, and did you try a higher crossover? If you were around 110-120hz the sub could maybe fill in that dip at 80hz. I suggested this a few days ago........

Thanks. I'm more than happy to create a proper baffle wall back there, not a problem.
The problem I had with the speakers in the original positions was I felt that the soundstage seemed constrained. I took a decision on balance that I'd accept some reflections for a wider soundstage....

I did try the higher xo points I think that was when I hadn't set REW up properly, I'll do it again.
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post #19420 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
@indus1 :

Please refresh my memory. What make/model are your front speakers? Are they ported? If yes, is the port front-facing or rear-facing? And do you have an AVR with room correction, if yes, what make/model?

As mentioned they are the xtz cinema series, front ported. I have a Marantz 7702mk2 AVP and use a dirac 88a.

I haven't tried the sub distance tweak, (as mentioned by another member), is it worth trying this in my situation?

Thanks
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post #19421 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Would having the speakers in cavities like that be detrimental? You may want to stuff insulation behind and all around the speakers.

Link:. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...mp-Baffle-Step

Edit: added link to explain my comment.

Thanks. I will get this done. It seems like its the right thing to do whether or not its actually contributing to my current issue.
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post #19422 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus1 View Post
I haven't tried the sub distance tweak, (as mentioned by another member), is it worth trying this in my situation?
this is why you're taking data with a timing reference
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post #19423 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
this is why you're taking data with a timing reference


Thanks. I'll get the timing reference data done first and then work my way through all the other suggestions.
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post #19424 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 08:31 AM
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Just purchased an open, but new, miniDSP 2x4 HD from a forum member. Hoping to flatten my bass response a bit with it. Can anyone tell me what I might need? I think just another LFE cable? Any recommendations on a good one to buy?

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post #19425 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Just purchased an open, but new, miniDSP 2x4 HD from a forum member. Hoping to flatten my bass response a bit with it. Can anyone tell me what I might need? I think just another LFE cable? Any recommendations on a good one to buy?
If you want to be able to program the MiniDSP while it is hooked up to the system, you might want a long enough USB cable to reach from your computer to the MiniDSP.

I get most of my cables from Monoprice, but Blue Jeans Cable is often recommended as well.
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post #19426 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
If you want to be able to program the MiniDSP while it is hooked up to the system, you might want a long enough USB cable to reach from your computer to the MiniDSP.

I get most of my cables from Monoprice, but Blue Jeans Cable is often recommended as well.
So programming it looks like this:

HDMI from PC to AVR (as normal). UMIK-1 to PC via USB (as normal). MiniDSP 2x4 HD to PC via USB (as normal)?

Run REW. Create and Save filters (this is still a black box to me). Send to MiniDSP 2x4 HD via USB?

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post #19427 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So programming it looks like this:

HDMI from PC to AVR (as normal). UMIK-1 to PC via USB (as normal). MiniDSP 2x4 HD to PC via USB (as normal)?
Correct, but you don't have to have your mic or AVR hooked up to make changes to the MiniDSP. It makes sense while you are measuring and creating filters, but I just wanted you to know that it's not a necessity.


Quote:
Run REW. Create and Save filters (this is still a black box to me). Send to MiniDSP 2x4 HD via USB?
Correct again.

Creating and saving filters is not as hard as it seems and we're here to help!
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post #19428 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 10:12 AM
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Question for you lot.

When taking measurements for my Anthem ARC how far away from the wall would you place you mic?

As I sit in the MLP (centre position on the settee) my ears are millimeters above highest point on settee back. My head is very close to rear wall. Would you place the mic exactly where my head is or would you bring the mic forward?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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post #19429 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So programming it looks like this:

HDMI from PC to AVR (as normal). UMIK-1 to PC via USB (as normal). MiniDSP 2x4 HD to PC via USB (as normal)?

Run REW. Create and Save filters (this is still a black box to me). Send to MiniDSP 2x4 HD via USB?
I think you got this but...RCA from avr to miniDSP. RCA(s) from miniDSP to sub amp(s).
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post #19430 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I think you got this but...RCA from avr to miniDSP. RCA(s) from miniDSP to sub amp(s).
I know this is the ongoing config, after filters are created and loaded onto the miniDSP, but should the RCA's from AVR to miniDSP and from miniDSP to sub be plugged in while the rest is also plugged in? I guess yes to know your filters are working?

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post #19431 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGTL View Post


Question for you lot.

When taking measurements for my Anthem ARC how far away from the wall would you place you mic?

As I sit in the MLP (centre position on the settee) my ears are millimeters above highest point on settee back. My head is very close to rear wall. Would you place the mic exactly where my head is or would you bring the mic forward?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
At least a foot from the wall, and I would cover that couch with a nice, thick blanket during calibration.
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Last edited by Alan P; 08-02-2016 at 11:19 AM.
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post #19432 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:23 AM
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That only makes sense if he's going to cover the couch when he's listening, too.
If it's going to be part of the room, it should be part of the calibration.
Michael

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post #19433 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:30 AM
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Sorry Michael, but I have to disagree.

It has been discussed and proven many times in the Audyssey thread that reflective leather (or vinyl) couches can be very detrimental to a calibration. Reflections from the couch can really screw up your cal...many people reporting a "too bright" result afterwards, but after covering the couch, "just right" results.

There's even mention of it in the FAQ:

Why are my high frequencies 'bright' or 'harsh' since running Audyssey?
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post #19434 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Sorry Michael, but I have to disagree.

It has been discussed and proven many times in the Audyssey thread that reflective leather (or vinyl) couches can be very detrimental to a calibration. Reflections from the couch can really screw up your cal...many people reporting a "too bright" result afterwards, but after covering the couch, "just right" results.

There's even mention of it in the FAQ:

Why are my high frequencies 'bright' or 'harsh' since running Audyssey?
Ohhh I will have to remember this next time I calibrate since my couches are also leather. Wonder if it has to do anything with my results. However, to Michael's point, if the calibration shows the results it does on the leather couch being uncovered, even (and especially) if they're due to reflections from the leather, won't those same reflections be present during system use?

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post #19435 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:37 AM
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Created this diagram real quick for confirmation. This is how I should have my setup during miniDSP 2x4 HD setup?

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| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
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post #19436 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
However, to Michael's point, if the calibration shows the results it does on the leather couch being uncovered, even (and especially) if they're due to reflections from the leather, won't those same reflections be present during system use?
Apparently not, according to the Audyssey folks (of which I'm not, so you should take their word for it ).
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post #19437 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Apparently not, according to the Audyssey folks (of which I'm not, so you should take their word for it ).
Michael
That can only basically mean that the Audyssey frequency combos are somehow susceptible to leather, while normal listening frequency combos are not?

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post #19438 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
this is why you're taking data with a timing reference
Hi

So I've taken the following measurements

1) Sub taken through centre channel

2) Left+ sub measurement with right channel as TR

3) Right + sub measurement with left as TR

4) Sub + centre with left as TR

5) Left on its own with right as TR (ie no sub)

6) Right on its own with left as TR (ie no sub)

The files are in the order as described above.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jcv8kgeg1...2-08.mdat?dl=0



I thought I'd get feedback on these measurements before I try anything else.

Thanks
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Last edited by indus1; 08-02-2016 at 11:58 AM.
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post #19439 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Ohhh I will have to remember this next time I calibrate since my couches are also leather. Wonder if it has to do anything with my results. However, to Michael's point, if the calibration shows the results it does on the leather couch being uncovered, even (and especially) if they're due to reflections from the leather, won't those same reflections be present during system use?
I don't really know the science behind it (I could hazard a guess, but I won't ), but the guys in the Audyssey thread could probably provide an answer in short order.

Is your cal overly bright now? If so, covering the couch may indeed help.
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post #19440 of 27599 Old 08-02-2016, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I don't really know the science behind it (I could hazard a guess, but I won't ), but the guys in the Audyssey thread could probably provide an answer in short order.

Is your cal overly bright now? If so, covering the couch may indeed help.
Is a peak what is considered bright?

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