Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 707 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21181 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 04:14 AM
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Thanks people. This occasion is for creating & testing of the crossover and center speaker only but if I put my XMC-1 in the setup this would mimic the final setup in the homecinema. This would mean using USB and disconnecting my XMC-1 from the tv-setup.

I gave some USB-C adapters already as one simply cannot work without it.

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post #21182 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 07:34 AM
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Developing a crossover for a speaker is different from integrating a sub with satellites. The former requires anechoic measurements, the latter is done in-room.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole

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post #21183 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 08:31 AM
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Installation problems
Originally I used REW in 2013, and thanks to the guide from Jerry, which was new at that time, everything worked fine. Since then, I have not used REW anymore (moved country, job, house).
Now I am restarting again. I deinstalled the old ASIO and REW, and installed the latest versions ASIOv2.13 and REW5.18 (Windows version with JRE), on a Windows 10 laptop.
Mic is a UMIK, and the laptop is HDMI connected to the front HDMI input of an OPPO BDP-103, and from there it goes to the AVR for a 5.1 setup.

I followed all the instructions from the guide from Jerry. Clear as in the past.

I have encountered following problems. In REW, I can measure front left and right channel, but not the other channels.
The windows audio configuration was done according to the guide (guide page 10-19), and I can ping all the channels.
In REW, Preferences, in the Output selection I can see all the channels, Display Audio Output 1.1 to 1.8 (guide page 34).
In the ASIO control panel, the display audio is active (guide page 36) and the device shows 8 channels. Note: I am not sure about the required advanced settings. There is no specific description in the guide about the required setting. Jerry has the boxes "always resample" and "force to 16bit" activated, but on my laptop, this was not activated and I left it like that.

With these settings , I can only measure front left and right, channel 1.1 and 1.2, but none of the other channels.
See enclosed screenshot of the measurements, together with the ASIO control panel screen.
What should I do?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf only left-right channel.pdf (465.2 KB, 18 views)

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post #21184 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post
Installation problems
Originally I used REW in 2013, and thanks to the guide from Jerry, which was new at that time, everything worked fine. Since then, I have not used REW anymore (moved country, job, house).
Now I am restarting again. I deinstalled the old ASIO and REW, and installed the latest versions ASIOv2.13 and REW5.18, on a Windows 10 laptop.
Mic is a UMIK, and the laptop is HDMI connected to the front HDMI input of an OPPO BDP-103, and from there it goes to the AVR for a 5.1 setup.

I followed all the instructions from the guide from Jerry. Clear as in the past.

I have encountered following problems. In REW, I can measure front left and right channel, but not the other channels.
The windows audio configuration was done according to the guide (guide page 10-19), and I can ping all the channels.
In REW, Preferences, in the Output selection I can see all the channels, Display Audio Output 1.1 to 1.8 (guide page 34).
In the ASIO control panel, the display audio is active (guide page 36) and the device shows 8 channels. Note: I am not sure about the required advanced settings. There is no specific description in the guide about the required setting. Jerry has the boxes "always resample" and "force to 16bit" activated, but on my laptop, this was not activated and I left it like that.

With these settings , I can only measure front left and right, channel 1.1 and 1.2, but none of the other channels.
See enclosed screenshot of the measurements, together with the ASIO control panel screen.
What should I do?
What exactly do you mean, "I can only measure front left and right"? Do you mean you can select a different channel, say HDMI3, but REW generates no sweep sound? Or REW doesn't even let you select the channel? When you go to the Tone Generator, will it let you select something other than the left and right channels? Do you get a tone?

I have never heard of this issue. Can you post a screenshot of the REW Preferences screen showing the choices under the Output drop-down?
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post #21185 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What exactly do you mean, "I can only measure front left and right"? Do you mean you can select a different channel, say HDMI3, but REW generates no sweep sound? Or REW doesn't even let you select the channel? When you go to the Tone Generator, will it let you select something other than the left and right channels? Do you get a tone?

I have never heard of this issue. Can you post a screenshot of the REW Preferences screen showing the choices under the Output drop-down?
Hello Jerry
Thanks for the fast reply. See the screenshot from "Preferences" and "Signal Generator". I can see and select all channels. E.g. I can select channel 1.3. But when I try to start the signal generator, or measurement, there is no sound coming out. Not a pieps. Sound is only produced when I select channel 1.1 and channel 1.2.
But, as I already mentioned, the Windows Audio setup shows all channels, and I can ping them all.
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post #21186 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 09:19 AM
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Why don't you plug it directly into your AVR?
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post #21187 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post
Hello Jerry
Thanks for the fast reply. See the screenshot from "Preferences" and "Signal Generator". I can see and select all channels. E.g. I can select channel 1.3. But when I try to start the signal generator, or measurement, there is no sound coming out. Not a pieps. Sound is only produced when I select channel 1.1 and channel 1.2.
But, as I already mentioned, the Windows Audio setup shows all channels, and I can ping them all.
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Why don't you plug it directly into your AVR?
I missed that in your original post. Why are you going through the Oppo?
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post #21188 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I missed that in your original post. Why are you going through the Oppo?
hallo Markus, Jerry,
It was the easiest setup for me. USB UMIK cable was a bit short, and also the HDMI cable from laptop to Oppo/AVR. Because the Oppo BDP-103 has a front HDMI input, it was the easiest to use that one because the HDMI inputs at the back of the AVR are more difficult to reach.
Anyway, I do not think it that it is related to the problem I have. In 2013, with the old REW, ASIO and Windows, it worked perfectly with the same setup.
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post #21189 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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Because that's probably his main source. You'd want any measurements to include any affect the Oppo has.
But for trouble-shooting, try the AVR.
Michael
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post #21190 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Because that's probably his main source. You'd want any measurements to include any affect the Oppo has.
But for trouble-shooting, try the AVR.
Michael
? If the Oppo is affecting the measurements in any way, that would be very strange, and undesirable. How do you think the Oppo might be affecting the measurements?
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post #21191 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post
hallo Markus, Jerry,
It was the easiest setup for me. USB UMIK cable was a bit short, and also the HDMI cable from laptop to Oppo/AVR. Because the Oppo BDP-103 has a front HDMI input, it was the easiest to use that one because the HDMI inputs at the back of the AVR are more difficult to reach.
Anyway, I do not think it that it is related to the problem I have. In 2013, with the old REW, ASIO and Windows, it worked perfectly with the same setup.
You have an unusual problem, and a non-standard method of connecting. To try and resolve the problem, you should be receptive to trying different things. Regardless of how it may have worked before, my recommendation would be to try connecting the HDMI from the laptop directly to the AVR to see if this resolves the issue.
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post #21192 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You have an unusual problem, and a non-standard method of connecting. To try and resolve the problem, you should be receptive to trying different things. Regardless of how it may have worked before, my recommendation would be to try connecting the HDMI from the laptop directly to the AVR to see if this resolves the issue.
hallo Jerry,
I now connected the laptop directly to the AVR. Same problem as before: I can see and select channels 1.1 to 1.8, but both the signal generator and the measuring section only produce sound when selecting channel 1.1 and 1.2. As before the ASIO control panel shows that the output is active.
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post #21193 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Developing a crossover for a speaker is different from integrating a sub with satellites. The former requires anechoic measurements, the latter is done in-room.
That was my thinking also, but knowledgeable folks on the DIY speaker forums here on AVS claimed measuring for the crossover can be done in room. Not so?

I did set the speaker diagonal in the room to avoid at least the side reflections.

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post #21194 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post
hallo Jerry,
I now connected the laptop directly to the AVR. Same problem as before: I can see and select channels 1.1 to 1.8, but both the signal generator and the measuring section only produce sound when selecting channel 1.1 and 1.2. As before the ASIO control panel shows that the output is active.
Thank you for testing this out. Next question, have you conducted the test from Windows audio to make sure the laptop is actually outputting a signal to all of the channels? See the attachment below. Open Playback Devices, click Configure, make sure 5.1 is the selected configuration, and then click Test. Do you get a test tone from all channels/
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post #21195 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post
hallo Jerry,
I now connected the laptop directly to the AVR. Same problem as before: I can see and select channels 1.1 to 1.8, but both the signal generator and the measuring section only produce sound when selecting channel 1.1 and 1.2. As before the ASIO control panel shows that the output is active.
One more question. With REW running, and while outputting a test tone to the left or right speaker, what does the audio status on you AVR show? On my AVR (see pic below), the status is "Multi Ch In 7.1".
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post #21196 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
One more question. With REW running, and while outputting a test tone to the left or right speaker, what does the audio status on you AVR show? On my AVR (see pic below), the status is "Multi Ch In 7.1".
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thank you for testing this out. Next question, have you conducted the test from Windows audio to make sure the laptop is actually outputting a signal to all of the channels? See the attachment below. Open Playback Devices, click Configure, make sure 5.1 is the selected configuration, and then click Test. Do you get a test tone from all channels/
hallo Jerry
Thanks for the help. I will check tomorrow (now it is evening for me, Swiss time)
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post #21197 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 12:38 PM
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Reading the REW guide. It appears that only HDMI or the headphone are valid connections to generate sounds?

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post #21198 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
That was my thinking also, but knowledgeable folks on the DIY speaker forums here on AVS claimed measuring for the crossover can be done in room. Not so?

I did set the speaker diagonal in the room to avoid at least the side reflections.
Depends on what exactly you're trying to do. You definitely want anechoic data. At higher frequencies this will work to some extend even in a room; you filter out unwanted reflections by gating the impulse response. At the same time you're losing frequency resolution though.
This paper (specifically chapter 2) might help you getting started: http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/asset...8/speakers.pdf

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Hello, i wanted to see if anyone can check if i am doing anything wrong here,

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Added new sub

Hello,

Just added a third sub along the back wall. I ran audyssey Pro on AV8802a today. I only had time to do a quick measurement of the center+subs. How does it look? Any recommendations to further smooth it out?

Thanks!
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post #21201 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 05:37 PM
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Hello,

Just added a third sub along the back wall. I ran audyssey Pro on AV8802a today. I only had time to do a quick measurement of the center+subs. How does it look? Any recommendations to further smooth it out?

Thanks!
I think there is room for improvement. Since you have only two sub outputs, are the two front subs equidistant from the MLP? If yes, then have you experimented with all available placement options for the subs? If no, then there could be an alignment issue. The response near what is likely the crossover point needs improvement. Have you tried the "sub distance tweak" to see if the response could be smoothed out?

I have attached a snapshot of my sub response for you to compare.
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post #21202 of 28379 Old 01-21-2017, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I think there is room for improvement. Since you have only two sub outputs, are the two front subs equidistant from the MLP? If yes, then have you experimented with all available placement options for the subs? If no, then there could be an alignment issue. The response near what is likely the crossover point needs improvement. Have you tried the "sub distance tweak" to see if the response could be smoothed out?

I have attached a snapshot of my sub response for you to compare.
Hello AustinJerry,

I have 2 SVS PB-2000s at the 1/4's on front wall, both 16.4ft from MLP & 1 SVS PC-2000 (Subs are different, box vs cylinder, but performance identicals) at the back middle wall 9.1ft from MLP. Crossovers are all at 80Hz. I have not tried the sub tweak as I didn't have time tonight. I will use your guide next saturday to give it a shot, it worked great when I had just the two in the front to get the dip around 70hz smoothed out. I have attached the response before I added the 3rd sub.

Thanks!
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post #21203 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 02:29 AM
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Hi!

I just read the entire PDF and have some measurements taken, thank you so much this thread is so very helpful.

One question though regarding the change from the gain level of the UMIK-1 from 12 to 18. Does this 18 relate in any way to the Measurement level (dBFS) in REW? I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence or since I have an 18 gain mic, my level should be -18 instead of -12.

Thanks!

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post #21204 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
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Hello, i wanted to see if anyone can check if i am doing anything wrong here,

I don't see anything wrong, but why not set individual and overall boost both to 0dB and do cut only EQ?

You might have some dips left, but it will likely sound better and you'll have more headroom at those frequencies.

From what I've read on the Rythmik thread, you like to listen fairly loud, so preserving headroom could be useful.

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post #21205 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 09:03 AM
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that wide 30Hz dip you've boosted 5dB could, in particular, be eating up headroom...

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post #21206 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I don't see anything wrong, but why not set individual and overall boost both to 0dB and do cut only EQ?

You might have some dips left, but it will likely sound better and you'll have more headroom at those frequencies.

From what I've read on the Rythmik thread, you like to listen fairly loud, so preserving headroom could be useful.
Ok thank you, I will try when able, my sub is acting up. Yea I added the 5db and it made it flatter.

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post #21207 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 10:00 AM
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Hello, i wanted to see if anyone can check if i am doing anything wrong here,
Anal-compulsives such as myself click on the two arrows at the top that will actually perform the ascending sort by frequencies.
Fortunately, most people don't care.
Michael
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post #21208 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 10:07 AM
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Anal-compulsives such as myself click on the two arrows at the top that will actually perform the ascending sort by frequencies.
Fortunately, most people don't care.
Michael
I also care because I copy the PEQ into my Xilica by hand. Easier to keep track of that way.

Then again, copying them by hand also "incentivizes" me to do everything to minimize the number of PEQ I need to copy.
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post #21209 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 10:15 AM
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Humm! no comments about my post #21147?

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
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post #21210 of 28379 Old 01-22-2017, 10:18 AM
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Sorry for asking twice: some kind of a bug with internet connection.Désolé!


Huumm\?
No comments about my post #21147?
Just to be sure.

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
FargateOne is offline  
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