Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 747 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22381 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 07:51 AM
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So let's see some graphs!

BTW, what are you going to use to eq the subs?
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #22382 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 09:45 AM
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I'm trying to import the REW .txt file into my MiniDSP balanced 2x4. Each time I try I get this message: Your biquad in your input file is not correctly formatted.

I'm using the 2waySubAdv plug in.

Any thoughts?

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post #22383 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
I'm trying to import the REW .txt file into my MiniDSP balanced 2x4. Each time I try I get this message: Your biquad in your input file is not correctly formatted.

I'm using the 2waySubAdv plug in.

Any thoughts?
As long as you select the 2x4 in the REW EQ tool prior to saving the .TXT file, it should work just fine. I do this frequently. Otherwise, I have no insight as to what might be happening.
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post #22384 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As long as you select the 2x4 in the REW EQ tool prior to saving the .TXT file, it should work just fine. I do this frequently. Otherwise, I have no insight as to what might be happening.
Here is the REW screen where I'm exporting the values to a file:



Here is what the text file with the EQ values looks like....

Filter Settings file

Room EQ V5.19
Dated: Apr 24, 2017 1:31:02 PM

Notes:

Equaliser: MiniDSP
XT32 actually off
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 66.5 Hz Gain -7.0 dB Q 3.09
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 50.8 Hz Gain -11.1 dB Q 2.78
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 36.1 Hz Gain -14.3 dB Q 3.26
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 23.4 Hz Gain -6.3 dB Q 9.93
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 17.9 Hz Gain 6.0 dB Q 2.92
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 16.4 Hz Gain -4.1 dB Q 2.00


Here is the error message:


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post #22385 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
So let's see some graphs!

BTW, what are you going to use to eq the subs?
Michael
Don't receive my new subs until later this week so getting graphs that mean anything is going to have to wait. Because I now have REW setup with my receiver so that my subs will play the REW test tones, I will be ready to start EQing them after they are installed.

My Yamaha RX-A3060 has EQ subwoofer adjustments available for 4 bands for each sub. After I run a sweep in REW and identify the peaks and valleys in my room curve, I will manually adjust the subs’ EQ with the 3060. After that, I’ll run more sweeps and make more adjustments until the curve flattens out satisfactorily.

I haven’t given up on getting to the bottom of setting up REW for Mac OS to show discrete channels, one for each of my speakers. I’m not there yet but plan to keep trying to find a way to do it. I assume I wouldn’t need a MiniDSP 2X4 to do this. Is this right?

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #22386 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Here is the REW screen where I'm exporting the values to a file:



Here is what the text file with the EQ values looks like....

Filter Settings file

Room EQ V5.19
Dated: Apr 24, 2017 1:31:02 PM

Notes:

Equaliser: MiniDSP
XT32 actually off
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 66.5 Hz Gain -7.0 dB Q 3.09
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 50.8 Hz Gain -11.1 dB Q 2.78
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 36.1 Hz Gain -14.3 dB Q 3.26
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 23.4 Hz Gain -6.3 dB Q 9.93
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 17.9 Hz Gain 6.0 dB Q 2.92
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 16.4 Hz Gain -4.1 dB Q 2.00


Here is the error message:

In the REW EQ screen you need to select "save filter coefficients to file" NOT "export filter settings as text". The resulting text file is very different.
Regards, Mike.
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post #22387 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
In the REW EQ screen you need to select "save filter coefficients to file" NOT "export filter settings as text". The resulting text file is very different.
Regards, Mike.
Boom goes the dynamite!

Thank you kind sir!

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post #22388 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
The good news, though, is that REW will send its test signals to all of my speakers.
What mode is your processor set to for the HDMI input? You may need to experiment with the mode to make multi-channel selection available.
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post #22389 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Don't receive my new subs until later this week so getting graphs that mean anything is going to have to wait. Because I now have REW setup with my receiver so that my subs will play the REW test tones, I will be ready to start EQing them after they are installed.

My Yamaha RX-A3060 has EQ subwoofer adjustments available for 4 bands for each sub. After I run a sweep in REW and identify the peaks and valleys in my room curve, I will manually adjust the subs’ EQ with the 3060. After that, I’ll run more sweeps and make more adjustments until the curve flattens out satisfactorily.

I haven’t given up on getting to the bottom of setting up REW for Mac OS to show discrete channels, one for each of my speakers. I’m not there yet but plan to keep trying to find a way to do it. I assume I wouldn’t need a MiniDSP 2X4 to do this. Is this right?
Correct, you do not need a MiniDSP. You once you have a sweep you can have REW generate a generic EQ text file for you which will help get you started with how to set the Yamaha PEQ filters. At least that is how I go about it.

Even if you never get it working where you can select the LFE channel individually as long as you can send sweeps through L&R you are fine. You can just raise the crossover to see a fuller sweep of the sub's response at the MLP.
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post #22390 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
What mode is your processor set to for the HDMI input? You may need to experiment with the mode to make multi-channel selection available.
Thanks, I'll check it out the next time I hookup REW via an HDMI cable.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #22391 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Jerry -- I found that earlier today but it doesn't apply to my version of REW: I am running REW V5.19 Beta 4. Despite what the caveat says, I could find no dialog box for multichannel output in the Measure dialog. The good news, though, is that REW will send its test signals to all of my speakers. It works the same way, whether I use AirPlay or an HDMI cable to connect my MBP to my receiver. Thanks for trying to help anyway.
Don't use AirPlay. Plenty of things can go wrong that way. Use HDMI instead.

Your Mac has several audio inputs and outputs. What did you select as audio output in REW preferences?

Markus

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Last edited by markus767; 04-24-2017 at 01:49 PM.
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post #22392 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 02:30 PM
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Don't use AirPlay. Plenty of things can go wrong that way. Use HDMI instead.

Your Mac has several audio inputs and outputs. What did you select as audio output in REW preferences?
Markus -- Thanks for the advice. Although I was intrigued by AirPlay and experimented with it, I shifted to HDMI and have been using it most of the time lately. I haven't had a chance to experiment anymore with REW and my receiver today but will do so later today or tomorrow. Thank you for weighing in on my problem.

When I have connected my MBP to my receiver (a Yamaha RX-A3060) with an HDMI cable, should it show up as an output choice in the Sound settings for my MBP or do I have do something in REW first?

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #22393 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 02:38 PM
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When I have connected my MBP to my receiver (a Yamaha RX-A3060) with an HDMI cable, should it show up as an output choice in the Sound settings for my MBP or do I have do something in REW first?
You should see your AVR (or projector/TV) in both (Audio MIDI Setup app and REW).

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post #22394 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 02:48 PM
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You should see your AVR (or projector/TV) in both (Audio MIDI Setup app and REW).
Markus -- OK will check it out. Where can I find the "Audio MIDI setup app?" I saw it referred to in the REW for Mac tutorial but neither understood what it was nor where to find it.

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post #22395 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 03:22 PM
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Markus -- OK will check it out. Where can I find the "Audio MIDI setup app?" I saw it referred to in the REW for Mac tutorial but neither understood what it was nor where to find it.
Applications > Utilities

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Thank you everyone! It's so much clearer now. I had previously been using impulse response overlays but I thought the delay/distance display had eliminated the need… an Easy Button.
I have made a change for the next beta so that when using the acoustic timing reference the delay figure will be taken based on the start of the impulse response instead of the peak if the peak is more than 1 ms later. That may give better results when measuring subwoofers.
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post #22397 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 03:34 PM
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I have made a change for the next beta so that when using the acoustic timing reference the delay figure will be taken based on the start of the impulse response instead of the peak if the peak is more than 1 ms later. That may give better results when measuring subwoofers.
Thanks John!
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post #22398 of 28154 Old 04-24-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I doubt the 96Khz means much for the sub channel. The 2x4HD is limited to 2v out, while the 2x4 balanced has switchable 2v or 4v. So you need to assess the voltage output that will be required by your subs, and whether the placement of the subs in the room will require a delay greater than 7.5ms, which is the 2x4's limit. As for more plug-in's, you only need one, the Advanced 4-Way.
This is the Achilles heel of these units. I encourage anyone who has the time to shoot them a email about raising this limit, Ive sent quite a few. I get a canned answer every time. They may just roll there eyes every time they see its me
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Applications > Utilities
Markus -- OK, found it! Will see what I can do with it once I have made an HDMI connection to my receiver. Will report after that. The info you have given me looks like a huge breakthrough, though. Will report what happens here. Once again, thanks to you, Jerry, and the others who have provided such valuable information about the intricacies of REW.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #22400 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 06:07 AM
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^ ^ ^ @markus767 I followed your instructions and was able to use REW and the Audio MIDI Setup app to give me control over all of my 7.1 speakers in REW. I ran several test sweeps of my current sub with REW and am now satisfied that I have REW configured in a way that will allow me to EQ my subs when I receive them later this week.

I have taken the advice you and Jerry gave me and given up on using AirPlay to connect REW to my receiver. Am pretty sure it works but wifi is wifi so I agree that going the HDMI route is by far the better course.

Thanks again to you and Jerry for your invaluable assistance.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #22401 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
^ ^ ^ @markus767 I followed your instructions and was able to use REW and the Audio MIDI Setup app to give me control over all of my 7.1 speakers in REW. I ran several test sweeps of my current sub with REW and am now satisfied that I have REW configured in a way that will allow me to EQ my subs when I receive them later this week.

I have taken the advice you and Jerry gave me and given up on using AirPlay to connect REW to my receiver. Am pretty sure it works but wifi is wifi so I agree that going the HDMI route is by far the better course.

Thanks again to you and Jerry for your invaluable assistance.
Atta boy! We knew you could do it. Time to get down to some serious work!
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post #22402 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 08:26 AM
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About to get started with REW. I know the guide say not to place mic on sofa cushions but my goal is to see what the frequency response is at different seating positions in our living room as subjectively I'm noticing very large variations in mid bass and ultra low bass. So should mic stand just be on floor at ear height as close as possible to seating positions? Thanks.

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post #22403 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 09:33 AM
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Atta boy! We knew you could do it. Time to get down to some serious work!
My new Rythmik FV18 subs are in town and scheduled for UPS delivery "By End Of Day." I'm looking forward to getting them setup and configured.

Before deploying REW, one of the Wise Men in the Yamaha RX-AX060 thread told me that before using REW I should run YPAO three times. First with one sub connected, the second with the other sub connected and, finally a third time with both subs connected. Then, finally, it will be time to roll out REW. Given the learning curve I have had to climb in order to become familiar enough with REW for it to be usable, the need to run YPAO three times doesn't bother me much.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #22404 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
My new Rythmik FV18 subs are in town and scheduled for UPS delivery "By End Of Day." I'm looking forward to getting them setup and configured.

Before deploying REW, one of the Wise Men in the Yamaha RX-AX060 thread told me that before using REW I should run YPAO three times. First with one sub connected, the second with the other sub connected and, finally a third time with both subs connected. Then, finally, it will be time to roll out REW. Given the learning curve I have had to climb in order to become familiar enough with REW for it to be usable, the need to run YPAO three times doesn't bother me much.
Strange. I would think each YPAO would start out with fresh setting, without any recollection of previous runs. Sounds like the advice you received is hocus-pocus. Did you challenge his reasoning?

The typical approach to using REW to EQ the sub channel would be:\

1. Turn off YPAO.
2. Measure the combined sub signal, 15-300Hz.
3. Develop and apply the manual sub EQ based on the REW measurements.
4. Run YPAO.
5. Measure results with REW.
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post #22405 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
About to get started with REW. I know the guide say not to place mic on sofa cushions but my goal is to see what the frequency response is at different seating positions in our living room as subjectively I'm noticing very large variations in mid bass and ultra low bass. So should mic stand just be on floor at ear height as close as possible to seating positions? Thanks.
Best to use a boom mic stand. Position the mic tip at ear level. Keep the mic 12-18" away from seat backs. Make sure there is an unobstructed line-of-sight to all speakers (i.e. the seat back should not block anything).
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post #22406 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 11:56 AM
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Why eq flat?

Why eq flat when the Fletcher-Munson curves (AIUI) show that our hearing is anything but "flat."



Wouldn't it be possible to load a house curve into REW to change the target curve to reflect this?
Wouldn't it sound "better"?

Michael

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post #22407 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Why eq flat when the Fletcher-Munson curves (AIUI) show that our hearing is anything but "flat."

[I...]

Wouldn't it be possible to load a house curve into REW to change the target curve to reflect this?
Wouldn't it sound "better"?

Michael
It doesn't matter whether the "sensitivity" of our hearing is flat or changes with frequencies. The hearing of the mixing/mastering engineer is like yours. So when his speakers we're flat yours should also be flat. What really matters with regards to equal loudness curves is the difference BETWEEN the curves when you listen at a level that is different from reference (whatever that is when talking about music mixes as only movie mixes know a standardized reference level).

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post #22408 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 12:45 PM
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I understand that the curves represent differences at different volumes, but the overall "shape" of the curves is similar. That's what I was looking at as a target curve.
So the "flat" we're measuring already considers that.
Many thanks!
Michael
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post #22409 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 02:30 PM
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Best to use a boom mic stand. Position the mic tip at ear level. Keep the mic 12-18" away from seat backs. Make sure there is an unobstructed line-of-sight to all speakers (i.e. the seat back should not block anything).
Would this pertain to subs positioned behind the couch as well? Is it OK for the couch back to block subs or should the mic be raised to a height which allows a clear path?
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post #22410 of 28154 Old 04-25-2017, 02:37 PM
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Would this pertain to subs positioned behind the couch as well? Is it OK for the couch back to block subs or should the mic be raised to a height which allows a clear path?
The recommendation specifically pertains to mains speakers with directional mid and high frequency drivers. Clearly, a direct line of sight should be maintained for these speakers.

Subs, however, are entirely different. The low frequencies are not directional and simply "fill the room". So I would say for the subs, keep the mic tip at ear height even though the seat back may be blocking the sub. As always, it is a good idea to experiment to make sure this recommendation works for you.
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